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Final: Phillies 10, Pirates 3

Looking ahead to first pitch …

Game: Pirates (54-49) vs. Philadelphia Phillies (65-39)

Time: 7:05 p.m.

Site: Citizens Bank Park, Philadelphia

TV, radio: Root Sports, News Talk 104.7 FM

Weather: 92 degrees, chance of storms

Here is the official live box score, and here are the lineups …

Pirates:

  1. Xavier Paul, LF
  2. Garrett Jones, RF
  3. Andrew McCutchen, CF
  4. Neil Walker, 2B
  5. Pedro Alvarez, 3B
  6. Lyle Overbay, 1B
  7. Brandon Wood, SS
  8. Mike McKenry, C
  9. Charlie Morton, RHP

Phillies:

  1. Jimmy Rollins, SS
  2. Domonic Brown, RF
  3. Chase Utley, 2B
  4. Ryan Howard, 1B
  5. Shane Victorino, CF
  6. Raul Ibanez, LF
  7. Carlos Ruiz, C
  8. Wilson Valdez, 3B
  9. Roy Halladay, RHP

Rob Biertempfel has news updates from Philadelphia on the Bucco Blog.

Comments

  1. Jay G -Jacksonville FL via New Castle says:

    Holy crap guys, I swear I don’t have some mancrush on Pearce….but put him out there for 2 weeks straight….NO platoon….what’s he going to do???….bat .230?????..Give the guy a few weeks……He’s never started more than 2-3 times per week ever…..It’s hard to get on a roll spot starting and coming off the bench……Let’s go Hurdle….We’ve all got your back, but not on the 1B thing……..Hague from the minors, Wood, nothing against LO, but give someone else a crack…….

  2. Karen22 says:

    OVERBAYOVERBAYOVERBAYOVERBAY??????????????????????????!!!!!

    What is up with THIS??? I CANNOT WATCH HIM ANYMORE!!!!!!

  3. pattonbb says:

    I know I sound like a broken record, but Overbay has to grab some pine pretty soon. I’m sure as soon as I say that, he’ll have a couple big hits, at least I hope so.

    Every time you hear somebody talk about Overbay, they say “he’s great in the clubhouse”. Well guess what…he can still be great in the clubhouse while riding the bench.

    Ok, off the soapbox.

    On another note, I’m very happy to see Cutch back in the 3 hole the last couple games, where he belongs in my opinion.

  4. JMB says:

    Another line-up where I would like to trade or release half of the starters. UGH!

    O-fer-day
    Wood
    Xpaul
    GFJ

  5. AshevilleJeff says:

    We do need a firstbaseman who can hit. And Pearce is not the answer. He has 441 major league at bats and has an OPS of .695 I shutter when I watch him in the batter’s box. And don’t even get me started on Overspray.

  6. Drew71 says:

    Don’t worry folks. Patience is running out on Overbay.

    I’m sure he’ll be out of the lineup by October.

  7. JohnS says:

    I really wish the OF was healthy and they could play 22, 31, and 44. I know most hate “Legend” but he is still second in HR’s on this team in 100 less AB’s than McCutchen. While he isn’t the answer at 1st he is probably the best answer.

  8. Joe says:

    If the Pirates dont go outside of the organization to get a RF and/or 1B would you rather see John Bowker get a shot at everyday than see Overbay in the lineup? I know he has always had success at AAA and done nothing in the majors but could he really be worse? Hitting a little over .300 with some a little pop.

    Not saying he is Plan A but he is better than the status quo.

  9. Naje says:

    @ Drew – if he’s in the lineup tomorrow v. Lee… that’ll top everything. He may be around till Sept 1, but he shouldn’t get any at bats after the minor league call-ups unless we’re playing 25 inning games and every available pitcher has either pitched, pinch hit or pinch run.

    He should give about $2M of his salary BACK to the club.

  10. JMB says:

    As a -1.0 WAR player, O-fer-day should give back all of this year’s salary AND write a check for $5m for pain & suffering!

  11. JasonThompsonSpeed says:

    Hi all,

    First time long time…agree with patton that McCutchen needs to bat as high in the order as possible given this lineup. Wouldn’t even mind him batting leadoff or second and doing the “pitcher batting eighth thing” and XPaul 9th. (Speed alone does not equal great leadoff hitter).

    But in this lineup, does it really matter? And do we really think an outfield of Tabata/Cutch/Presley with Doumit catching is the cure-all?

  12. pghboyinca says:

    The fact that Pearce is even on this roster is a joke, when he is your answer then you have issues. We need a bat and no amount of rationalizing changes that, tick…..tick…tick….the clock is running out.

  13. TS says:

    @Drew71

    Awesome! That’s the quote of the day. LMAO

  14. Naje says:

    At 28, I think Pearce needs to be some other team’s great right (handed bat) hope. He and G. Jones, who’ll be 31 next June, can take their flash-in-the-pan acts elsewhere.

    Thanks for the service, but I’m over the tired Jones act. And while I’d like to see Pearce get regular at bats, I don’t see him fitting into the future of this club.

  15. Bizrow says:

    Overbay is one of the highest paid players, dumping him would admit an error

    He’s on this year’s scholarship

    Fact is he’s about all we have right now

    Beat Em Bucs

    Tick, tick, tick ;-)

  16. Bizrow says:

    The Ledger of the Bucco Nation Blog is up to 111 lunatics, BTW

  17. JohnS says:

    PR’s Neil Walker 30 extra base hits. Legend 26 extra base hits. PR’s Neil Walker OPS .746. Legend OPS .734.

    Not a whole lot of difference.

    Offensively this TEAM is below average. Pretty tough to single out one spot in the line-up.

    I say let them run this to the end. This year is a freak accident let’s not disturb the mojo.

  18. CDBrewer says:

    Okay, I agree with all of that which is being said largely (although I like Paul more than some, maybe split down the middle on Pearce)…

    If we play the Phillies as straight up as we played the Braves – even if we lose 2/3, just play straight up or better – we all gotta relax.
    This is about as tough a 7 game trip as there is.

    If we are getting it done with the current crew I can’t yell too loudly.
    Chemistry is what they are playing on…we could wreck that.

    Now, the offseason, we would need to go get some REAL help…but I can enjoy this ride and wait it out.

  19. CDBrewer says:

    @Biz,

    You are getting to be a little consistent with the FO crushing.
    We released Aki and he was a bigger mistake than Overbay.
    Do you think – and I know I don’t know – do you think that management is telling Hurdle to run Overbay out there everyday?
    I do not think NH or FC tell Hurdle to do anything…almost to a fault. I think they know Hurdle would expose them.

    I would love to get something worth something, but nobody wants Jones, Pearce, or a piece we don’t want either.
    Lost of unrealistic ideas of trading Jones or Pearce for something good.

    Willingham, Pena, Lee…Jones, Pearce, Overbay
    Just different uni’s

    I would like something too, I just would rather pay a BUNCH for a Pence, or get creative and get a pitcher to flip into a REAL bat.
    Besides, the test is signing and paying for FULL seasons. We will see in the offseason.

  20. AshevilleJeff says:

    Drew,

    Do you mean we will dump Overbay right before we go to the playoffs? (october)

  21. Happy G says:

    The weather’s 92 and humid. Let’s hope Halladay continues to have conditioning issues like he did in Chicago last week *fingers crossed*.

    I’m not a big fan of Overbay but he stands a better chance tonight than Pearce from the right side trying to find his swing. My bet is Pearce starts tomorrow at first against the southpaw.

  22. CDBrewer says:

    Happy,

    Amen to those thoughts…I need him to implode for fantasy reasons too…lol

  23. CDBrewer says:

    Braves put Nate on the dl…not the end of the world for them, but now they are REALLY in the market for an OF.
    They need a CF more specifically than we do.

    I like the Chris Davis or Billy Butler ideas. Willing to pay with Sanchez or Lincoln.

  24. JMB says:

    It sounds like the Reds are going for Bourn. I might lose my mind if they get him for an unimpressive haul!

  25. CDBrewer says:

    JMB,

    Completely agree with you on Bourne, especially since WE are more in contention.
    We might not even be looking at Bourne because of our depth in CF.

    That is the shortsightedness I am worried about – not thinking outside the box.
    Look at how Toronto got its CF, it flipped a pitcher. Even if it doesn’t work out completely, I applaude the vision.
    The inexperience DK – and many home gamers – have been worried about might be evident in not having that kind of creativity.

  26. JAL says:

    No word on why Ronny is out again. Second game in row.

  27. Curt says:

    @CDBrewer: I want them to trade for Billy Butler as well. Makes sense!
    Glad to see Lyle back in the #6 spot and what he brings to this lineup.

    I can’t do it,

    Enough already. He needs to be sitting!

  28. CDBrewer says:

    I think Lyle plays tonight because Halladay is so tough…I can live with that if Pearce plays tomorrow.
    What is one more day? But I don’t like seeing him out there either.

  29. Curt says:

    @JAL: Heard he is the main piece in a package deal to Los Angeles that lands us Andre Ethier.

  30. CDBrewer says:

    I like the Francoeur idea.
    Low cost, plays hard…Has some power.
    He would do for something.

  31. pattonbb says:

    I think Ronny sitting is Hurdle’s way of telling him, “No more side-arm throws to first”.

  32. Naje says:

    JAL – it’s not the second game in a row… he played all 19 innings Tuesday night, was given the day off Thursday and is off today. Maybe the pitching matchup is a little more favorable for Wood today, or for Cedeno to play Saturday through the Cubs series next week….

    Or maybe he’ll be traded.

  33. Naje says:

    Wood at SS is a big, big downgrade… Ronny’s play last night, while not a good one and cost the team a run, was odd… but there are a lot of games in a row in this stretch… finding ideal matchups and time to give a guy a rest, especially one coming off of a concussion DL stint, might be what’s going on.

  34. JMB says:

    SI_JonHeyman
    #indians being very aggressive. believed in mix on pence, ubaldo, ludwick, etc. #tradedeadline

    I’d like to read a tweet like that about us!

  35. pattonbb says:

    Jon Heyman just said Pence is about to be dealt. Things could get interesting tonight.

  36. JMB says:

    After reading all the ways that Rob Neyer has disparaged Frenchy in the past, I just cant get excited about him.

  37. JMB says:

    MLBN has the game tonight for those OTA w/o MLBEI.

  38. Naje says:

    I’ll take facts over rumors and tweets any day… you can have all of the “Pirates are being very aggressive” tweets that you want… that’s all they are…words in cyberland. No one knew that the Eagles were going to get Vick last year or Namdi this year…

  39. JMB says:

    True Naje.

    We have 48hrs to see what happens. I know NH is Nixonian with his need for secrecy & control, but I will feel a lot better if we actually do something that gives this team a chance to win the division.

  40. pattonbb says:

    What in the hell was that?

  41. CDBrewer says:

    That was unfortunate…Paul does hustle, even if he isn’t great.

  42. pattonbb says:

    Why would he just stand there? Why not force someone to at least make a throw?

  43. Naje says:

    JMB…. me too… me too. Lots of holes to fill… hoping they get at least one of them to something approaching filled.

  44. Jeffkqv says:

    Why is Ciriacco being brought back and not Josh Harrison?

  45. CDBrewer says:

    Why is Ciriaco being brought back?
    Maybe Hurdle wants a pinch runner.
    Forget the other options – Ciriaco doesn’t get used.

  46. JMB says:

    I was thinking that we didnt need Furcal, but maybe we do if Ronny is gonna be down for any length of time.

  47. CDBrewer says:

    We look terrible.
    Paul
    Wood
    Jones

    Wow.
    Maybe the ATL series is catching up with us.

  48. CDBrewer says:

    Add Morton to that list.

  49. hsages211 says:

    Has Jones ever played the outfield before??? Just awful

  50. pattonbb says:

    Why do we pick a nationally televised game to start looking like last year’s team?

  51. CDBrewer says:

    Maybe after the inning they should all go into the clubhouse and they leave again like they are going to start playing, you know, a game.

    That said, we have sucked like this, very few times, and it is a long season. Not jumping off a roof tonight if we get shelled one game.
    We expected these then they came to our yard, and it didn’t happen. And there is a reason they have the best record in the league.

  52. JMB says:

    I feel like we are already in the 3rd inning.

  53. hsages211 says:

    Does Morton realize he isn’t throwing BP?

  54. CDBrewer says:

    There’s that curve…WHY NO SINKER, SINKER, SINKER!!!

  55. hsages211 says:

    3 runs might as well be 10 runs with the Pirates lineup

  56. Keith says:

    Regarding Cedeno’s sitting and all the LA talk earlier, maybe it’s a really big deal including Furcal AND Ethier?? What would that cost?

  57. JMB says:

    robneyer (via twitter)
    The Phillies see Roy Halladay pitch all the time. They KNOW Roy Halladay. So of course they’ll hammer the li’l Roy Halladay. #pirates

  58. AJS says:

    I don’t know if I have mentioned this before, but Charlie needs to STOP THROWING THE CURVE! Unfortunately he was having early control issues with the sinker and the only other pitch he has is that terrible curve. Charlie has potential to be a great sinkerballer, but he needs some more time to figure out how much it is going to break and where to start it to get it to where he wants it.

    Or maybe he just needs Snyder back to set him strait.

  59. AJS says:

    And in the time it took me to type that the Bucs go down in order.

  60. AJS says:

    Looks like a little league game has broken out.

  61. AJS says:

    Starting to rain. POUR! WASH THIS THING OUT!

  62. AJS says:

    The two times Morton put the sinker exactly where it should be, its been hit for a single and a HR. It just isn’t Chuck’s night. Poor defense, poor location, poor control. Will Morton even make it to his first AB?

  63. Steve Smith says:

    They are very overmatched tonight in this stadium, even if it is Doc on the hill. Charlie is not helping matters with that horrible curve.

  64. JAL says:

    One of those really bad games that come along every so often. Bad pitching and bad fielding.

  65. Steve Smith says:

    Unfortunately this game was over in the first inning. We’ll get them tomorrow.

  66. AJS says:

    he’s almost at 60. who in the pen is fresh enough to eat innings? could McCutchen pitch a few? Leroux was DL’d, grilli? Who IS this teams emergency long relief guy?

  67. CDBrewer says:

    JAL,
    Agreed…Out of 162, you hope you only roll out 2 or 3 of these.

    I am going to look up Philly weather…Could we get THAT lucky that the game gets wiped out?

  68. pghboyinca says:

    “JohnS
    July 29th, 2011 – 5:32 pm PR’s Neil Walker 30 extra base hits. Legend 26 extra base hits. PR’s Neil Walker OPS .746. Legend OPS .734.
    Not a whole lot of difference.
    Offensively this TEAM is below average. Pretty tough to single out one spot in the line-up.
    I say let them run this to the end. This year is a freak accident let’s not disturb the mojo.”

    John, I don’t know if you are aware but they invented two ther relatively new stats called batting average and R.B.I.’s And certain fringe groups who may not be as tuned in as you seem to be beleive that a corner outfielder should hit for more power than a second baseman. And have you ever evaluated the defense of these two? Jones has turned the wrong way 3 times on fly balls in the last 3 games.

    I think the team has decided if the front office doesn’t care why should they? Pray for rain.

  69. JAL says:

    Might have to try get an couple innings from a position player. Said before the game McCutchen can’t go tonight. He threw 92 pitches iin the 19 inning game

  70. Steve Smith says:

    CD, the system baring down on them is moving too fast and likely will only delay it a short time. Not that lucky tonight.

  71. Steve Smith says:

    I can live with getting blown out tonight, but they better not get no hits.

  72. Steve Smith says:

    What blows is that we picked the wrong time in the schedule to have to fight for first place. St.Louis and Milwaukee get the NL Central bottom feeders to dine on, while we get the NL’s best two teams. I said before this week, that I would be happy with a 4-3 road trip. That can still happen. Hopefully we don’t find ourselves down too much to the leaders after this series.

  73. AJS says:

    @JAL. Ya I knew he had thrown 92 in that game. I just didn’t know if 2 days was going to be enough time off for him. I figured no since a starter gets 4 days after that time of work. I think Chaz is going to have to stick it out for a while.

    Some of the defensive mistakes tonight reek of fatigue. Just heard them say the team didn’t get in until 3:00am. After that long series(2 games delayed, 2 to extra innings, and one of those being 19 innings) you can only hope fatigue is the key issue and that they come out sharp tomorrow.

    oh and we can hope that the FO somehow finds a way to deal for ANYONE to play first base other than overbay. So far I have read about the Beltran situation and just recently read Pittsburgh showed interest in Pence but when they saw what they asked Philly for the first tim(Philly offered their top 2 prospects and Houston asked for more) they quickly peeled off. I’m fine with not wanting to deal any of the top prospects, but they should be able to deal a couple B level guys to get a better player than Overbay.

  74. Nancy52 says:

    I feel like this is Groundhog Day all over again. (2010 version)

  75. jonathan says:

    wow, blown out and no-hit might be just the embarrassment the front office needs to make a trade! heap it on!

  76. Dave G in Mason, OH says:

    Just came in from watering the yard to find the Bucs down 8-0 to Halladay in the third.

    Feeling quite hopeless under the circumstances.

  77. CDBrewer says:

    Hey pbg,

    The snarky tone works better if you proofread your work (“ther”).
    We would all understand the point still, too!
    We are adults, and can be civil, even if we disagree.

    I would make the point one bat isn’t solving this offense, and might even get pitched around.

    I would like some upgrades, but did you think it was going to be about this yearin April?
    I am willing o see if management makes meaningful signings in the offseason if the price is too high now.
    Twitter world gets a little too obsessed with instant gratification. It took a decade to fully destroy the franchise, it has taken 3 years to get back to SOMETHING resembling competitiveness.

  78. CDBrewer says:

    NO NO HITTER!
    yay, I guess…

  79. JasonThompsonSpeed says:

    More likely event:

    Halladay no-hitter or Utley cycle? Have we ever seen both in a game? Probably not.

  80. JasonThompsonSpeed says:

    Oops.

  81. Steve Smith says:

    That 3-2 pitch to Jones was right down the middle and he missed it badly.

  82. Steve Smith says:

    @JTS I want to know if Utley will be 4-4 with a cycle after just 4 innings of play. He’s already 3-3 after 3 innings.

  83. pattonbb says:

    Wonder where Pence bats in that lineup?

  84. JasonThompsonSpeed says:

    Very possible, Steve.

    If I’m the Phils I bat Pence 5th behind Howard to break up the leftiness in the heart of the order. Pence is very comparable to Werth IMO. (Stat-heads feel free to refute.)

  85. JMB says:

    SI_JonHeyman
    #astros price tag on bourn to #reds said wildly high. Cincy not playing on pence, whose price is even steeper. #tradedeadline

  86. pghboyinca says:

    Cd, I have an assistant who does all my typing and written communication so I can spell and use proper sentence structure I just can’t type. I noticed a few typos in your reply but who cares about typos?

    I am so tired of people making snide comments abut me hating the Pirates and being anti front office that I repsond in kind. I am just blatant about it because I don’t care if i win the chat board popularity contest. I htink there is a large contingent of people who frequent every Pirate related blog and are so pro ownership that it is laughable.

    And before anyone starts bragging about where we are consider this. We are in the worst division in baseball and having 4-5 pitchers pitching out of their mind and stil are not in first place. We ahve one of the lowest payrolls in baseball and after 3 years and 4 drafts we still have an average at best farm system with no help on the immedaite horizon. Our position players are a complete joke witht the exception of Cutch and Walker and this regime inherited them. The startes have been insanely good but that may be ending. Correia is starting to look very ordinary, Morton is back to being knucklehead Chuck, maholm is arock but most likely is gone next year, Karstens is an ace but the brain trust DFA’d him 6 months ago.

    I think this year is an abberation and is not in any way a sign that this club has figured it out. I think Hurdle has motivated them with a mantra of “Us against the world”. That works for a couple of months but tlaent wins out long term and we don’t have enough. Without a significant upgrade on offense we finish below .500 and i can see next year beiong a 90 loss year wthout a free agent acquisiton. This is no the beginnng of anythng, it is a random act of good fortune ona franchise that was due for one. I hope I am wrong but I would not bet on it.

  87. JMB says:

    Sounds like the Pence deal is just about done.

    Will we see him tomorrow?

  88. JMB says:

    Ken_Rosenthal
    Source: #Astros will get Singleton, Cosart and 2 players to be named from #Phillies for Pence. PTBN not major prospects #tradedeadline #MLB

    jonmorosi
    What’s next for #Astros? Well, they are listening on Michael Bourn. #Braves, #Indians, #Reds, #Nats interested in him.

  89. Dave G in Mason, OH says:

    The problem with the guys that Huntington would probably part with in a trade is that nobody wants them.

  90. CDBrewer says:

    pgh,

    Some really good points in there, but I gotta disagree with some too.

    First of all, the AL West is much worse than our division. The NL West is not much better, if it is better. I will put the Cards and Brewers with the Giants and DBacks any day, and the Reds and Cubs are better than SD. I would the AL Central isn’t much better, if at all either. Cleveland has come back to earth, the White Sox are the AL version of the Cubs, The Tigers aren’t better than the Cards.
    I will give you we are a .500 team though. Not much better, not much worse.

    I think you sell the progress in the minors too. We were the UNDISPUTED worst farm system 3/4 years ago. Now we are middle of the pack. Rome wasn’t built in a day, and 4 farm clubs can’t be either – especially not when you are pulling the tiny talent from them. To think they could just flip a switch – and 3 years in terms of building an entire organization, not just the ML team, is flipping a switch – is a little harsh.

    Now, I agree with your assessment of the pitching on the whole, I might be a little more pessimistic about it than you are. I think Karstens is about to hit his wall too. But that is exactly why I don’t want to make a big trade right now. This run is largely smoke and mirrors.

    I don’t know how old you are, but Thrift was gone when we actually saw how much he had put together. It is a lot like a college football coach getting 3 years. Building a system takes time. Minor league stats aren’t all that telling either, sometimes pitchers are told “no breaking balls” or “only down or in tonight”. Sometimes they really are just working on something.

    I will be right with you if we sign the Overbay/Diaz mold free agents to supplement the group in the offseason, but I think the time will be then – to assess who will be with us going forward (is Tabata going to be a quad problem for the next 10 years, can Presley actually play), and then fill the holes with MLB talent – not journeymen.
    I think the price is too high right now for a team that is so far over its head, in a division with two monsters who will play better.
    We just aren’t beating both Pujols and Fielder this year.

  91. JMB says:

    Yup @ Dave G.

    jonmorosi
    One reason I love this time of year: Teams find out the true value of their prospects, based on who wants to do business with them.

    ____________

    I wonder if we really have anyone another team would want other than the untouchable Jamo.

  92. Steve Smith says:

    Is the world going to end tomorrow? Ciriaco is on the field and may even bat. Something big may happen!

  93. JasonThompsonSpeed says:

    @Steve, they’re obviously showcasing Ciriaco.

  94. TDB1977 says:

    Pence has been pulled in the Houston game. Glad to see the best front office in all of baseball has made a move or two this trade season. After watching this team tonight, its hard to believe that they will stay above .500 much longer. The marathon game of a couple of nights ago took a lot out of this teams sails.

    Another thing, has anyone noticed that since Snyder and Doumit have gone down with injuries, that Morton doesn’t want to throw his sinker anymore? Its almost he doesnt trust it anymore with a different catcher behind the plate.

  95. Dave G in Mason, OH says:

    Halladay done @ 98 pitches, 5 k’s.

    If the Phillies lose this game, Steve Blass is walking back home.

  96. Eric Bowser says:

    Giants and Phillies loaded with great pitching address their need for OF help, while the Pirates are in dire need of anyone not named Lyle Overbay, Garrett Jones or Steve Pearce to play first base.

    Looks like the next possible move for Houston is moving OF/1B Carlos Lee, wonder if the Astros are willing to throw in enough money that the Pirates might make a move to get the big man for 1B or RF.

    Another possibility is Tampa Bay Rays veteran first baseman Casey Kotchman.

    At this point, waiting until Sunday may have been too little, too late for the Pirates as they look like a tired beaten bunch.

  97. pattonbb says:

    Pence is a Philly….. dammit.

  98. Steve Smith says:

    The world is about to end as Ciriaco just knocked in two with a double in an actual good at-bat.

  99. JMB says:

    9 more to go!

  100. Steve Smith says:

    Rally Parrots with two out in the 8th! Let’s go!

  101. TDB1977 says:

    Jones will be the final out for the inning…

  102. TDB1977 says:

    Jayson Stark is reporting that Houston is sending money with Pence? WTF!?! Philadelphia can’t afford to pay Pence?

  103. CDBrewer says:

    Lee at 1B is okay with me, and I like Kotchman.

    I don’t think our pitching was gonna make it through August either though.

  104. pattonbb says:

    Houston actually got a heck of a return for Pence. Incredible..

  105. What happened to common sense? says:

    Allow me to sum up the naysayers respond to the bad game tonight…

    See, we can’t compete with anyone. Charlie Morton sucks cause he had a bad game. They’ll never win another game the rest of the year because NH got rid of the 2007 Pirates lineup and got nothing in return. NH won’t go get Carlos Pena, Derek Lee, Josh Willingham, et. al. It’s futility forever but I still want to make sure that everyone sees how unhappy and miserable I always am about everything Pirates baseball.

  106. CDBrewer says:

    Phillies are in their window…might as well sell out.
    Might as well go for it while Halladay, Lee, Rollins, Utley, and Ibanez are all still upright.
    Rollins on the downside, Utley becoming an injury concern, Ibanez is 39…won’t last forever and the Giants got ‘em last year.

  107. Reading says:

    Just love that one handed Pearce follow through on Ks.

  108. CDBrewer says:

    Langerhans to DBacks from Mariners for cash.
    Would he have been an upgrade? I don’t think so, but that is me.

  109. heap it on says:

    You just knew Ruben Amaro was going to make a big deal. Nice job of getting the guy they wanted from the beginning. They paid a high price, but they got him.

    @ What happened…
    Why do you get so defensive? Nobody said Morton sucks. He just can’t handle the pressure. Or should I say, he just couyldn’t handle the pressure tonight. That doesn’t mean he won’t bounce back. And in case you haven’t noticed, Pena and Willingham would be a big upgrade for this team. Derek Lee is a wash in my opinion.

  110. JMB says:

    Ha –I follow a lot of baseball and I have no idea who Langerhans even is.

  111. pattonbb says:

    CDB..LOL, no…Langerhans is not an upgrade. I always thought he was terribly over-rated.

  112. JAL says:

    Langerhans easy to overlook but been around 9 seasons. Out fielder with little power and career BA under .230

  113. CDBrewer says:

    Yeah, he was a Brave a long time ago…and has just never been much.

    See, some GM’s are worse – they acquire crap and pass it off as an upgrade. LOL
    Just kidding – not meant to be a defense of FO, just thought it was funny THAT was considered a move.

  114. Happy G says:

    No panic on this end. The Phillies and Braves aren’t in our division. Monday through Thursday next week we play the Cubs at home and hopefully with our new additions to the lineup. On this week in 1990, 1991, and 1992 we went 2-4, 2-5, and 3 -4 respectively. So, we’ve already done at least that well.

    I’m more interested in how our roster will change in the next day or two. Add a key roster move and that’s the spark this team needs to go 5-2 next week against the Cubs and Padres at home.

  115. What happened to common sense? says:

    I’m not defensive. Just thought it might help some people if I went ahead and put on a meltdown for them. Haha

  116. JasonThompsonSpeed says:

    I appreciate hyperbole as much as the next guy, but I doubt most naysayers think all that :-)

    As neither a naysayer or a yaysayer, let me break down the Common Sense post:

    See, we can’t compete with anyone. (I don’t believe that, but games like this remind us of how much work there is to do.)

    Charlie Morton sucks cause he had a bad game. (Charlie Morton has sucked for 6 of the last 8 baseball months.)

    They’ll never win another game the rest of the year (obviously not true)

    because NH got rid of the 2007 Pirates lineup and got nothing in return. (actually kinda true)

    NH won’t go get Carlos Pena, Derek Lee, Josh Willingham, et. al. (I honestly think they’re trying but their dance partners either aren’t impressed with the middling talent in the Pirates’ minor leagues or are overvaluing their own veterans. I think it’s a combo…)

    It’s futility forever (come on)

    but I still want to make sure that everyone sees how unhappy and miserable I always am about everything Pirates baseball. (then why do we bother to follow them and post on blogs? I may even be considered a fair weather fan for not posting before this year but we all want to see the Pirates succeed. We may not enjoy what this FO has done all the time but we still root and still get frustrated when the owner won’t spend or the team fires the pierogie…but everyone wants the same thing…a winning club.)

    That’s the downside of a baseball blog…too much up and down daily. Another 2-1 win tomorrow and things won’t be so bad. Except Overbay…he’s bad.

  117. buccos since '04 says:

    Overbay hasn’t had a RBI n a month and a half. What’s the record for starting first basemen.

  118. Happy G says:

    Where’s Adam Laroche? Doesn’t he heat up this time of year? Haha!

  119. JasonThompsonSpeed says:

    Obviously the Common Sense post was tongue-in-cheek (for the most part, I think, so I porbably overreacted, haha) but here’s a depressing fact:

    On Baseball Reference.com, on one list Adam Laroche has a similarity ranking closest to Adrian Gonzalez (gak).

    #2, however, was Paul Sorrento, and #10 was Lyle Overbay (double gak).

    Forget Adrian Gonzalez, Bucco fans would give their right arm (or maybe just Starling Marte) for Paul Sorrento.

  120. Dave G in Mason, OH says:

    Batting averages since the All-Star break (including tonight):

    McCutcheon .192
    Overbay .149
    Alvarez .143
    Diaz .143
    Jones .132
    Pearce .125

    These guys are the heart of the order.

  121. Dave G in Mason, OH says:

    Pitchers’ ERA since the All-Star break (including tonight):

    Veras 7.94
    Correia 5.82
    Morton 5.65
    Maholm 4.50

    Others are doing outstanding:

    Beimel 0.00
    Hanrahan 0.00
    McDonald 0.00
    Watson 0.00
    Karstens 1.71
    McCutcheon 1.74

  122. Dave G in Mason, OH says:

    Too many players are faltering severely at this time. The acquisition of a dependable bat isn’t likely to effect much change unless several of these players break out of their slumps.

  123. Dave G in Mason, OH says:

    And if you want to place the cause on the fact that they have been playing against the top teams lately, it merely justifies the point that, despite the solid pitching the Pirates are getting, the offense is not yet able to compete. The problem is much deeper than the addition of just one new bat.

  124. What happened to common sense? says:

    It’s not uncommon for players (and teams) to go through good and bad stretches. Look at the level of the starting pitching the hitters have faced in the last 11 games, especially. Yet, the team is still 5-6 with 5 players from the opening day roster on the DL and two other guys (Presley and Leroux) who filled in pretty well. That doesn’t count Chase d’Arnaud who had 6 extra base hits, 7 stolen bases, and scored 11 runs in his first 102 AB as a rookie with only 62 games under his belt at AAA.

    Plain bad luck is killing this team. They’ve lost more man games to the D.L. than any team in the NL Central and I’m pretty sure that it’s not real close.

  125. What happened to common sense? says:

    And everybody laughed when the Pirates gave a shot to those kids from India that won that “Million Dollar Arm” contest.

    Look at the numbers for Rinku Singh… He may be turning into a believable prospect. He had a 2.38 ERA last year in limited time. This season he has a 1.84 ERA, 24:4 K:BB ratio, and a 0.88 WHIP. I’d take those numbers on any level.

  126. pghboyinca says:

    Wahtever happened to nonsense,

    There is not a significant major leaguer on the DL for the Pirates. Love the Chase d’Arnaud cherry picked stat line. Wow, 6 extra base hits and 7 steaks in in 102 AB’s? Shame yhou can’t steal first base, why did you leave ot the batting average of .225 or the slugging average of .294 or the 3 rbi’s? (btw, can you actually use slugging and .294 in the same sentence?)

    Ohlendorf onte DL, boy he was tearing it up. Tabata, what was he hitting .230 in his last 150 AB’s before the DL? And after 257 AB’s he had 3 HR’s and 15 RBI’s. Devastating loss there. Doumit? Snyder? One can’t catchthe other can’t hit and I’d take McKenry over either perfectly healthy. Preslly showed some real promise although it was waht 3 weeks and we know who acquired him now don’t we? Meek is a loss but the bullpen has been outstanding.

    As usual your scripted front offfice propaganda doesn’t pass the sniff test. Walker, Cutch, Maholm, Karstens, Correia, McDoinald, and Morton have all been remarkebly healthy which is huge break. There is not a significant drop off from the majority ot the fringe players on the DL. The true contributors and core players have been remarkebly healthy.

  127. hooco01 says:

    Where’s the wake up call segment DK????

  128. Eric Bowser says:

    Maybe the wake up call is on strike due to the lack of commitment of the Pirates front office and ownership to stand up and be all in. This team needed help two months ago, it needed help two weeks ago, and it needed help two days ago.

    We’re heading into the final 40 hours or so before the non-waiver trade deadline and there seems to be absolutely zero connection to the Pirates for trades. On the same night a report comes out (likely a puff piece) about Pirates interest in Twins outfielder Jason Kubel, another says the Twins are unlikely to move Kubel or Michael Cuddyer.

    Pirates must find a first baseman and I would also look for OF since no date for Tabata and Presley returning to the lineup.

    Possible trade targets
    Jason Kubel – RF
    Michael Cuddyer – RF/1B
    Carlos Quentin – RF
    Adam Dunn – 1B
    Alex Rios – OF
    Paul Konerko – 1B
    Juan Pierre – OF
    Melky Cabrera – OF
    Jeff Francoeur – RF
    Carlos Pena – 1B
    BJ Upton – OF
    Casey Kotchman – 1B
    Derrek Lee – 1B (blah)
    Aramis Ramirez – 3B
    Ty Wigginton – 3B/1B
    Todd Helton – 1B
    Pat Burrell – RF
    Johnny Damon – LF/RF/1B
    Conor Jackson – RF/1B
    Josh Willingham – LF/RF
    Ryan Ludwick – RF
    David DeJesus – OF

  129. Curt says:

    I’m just curious what everyone’s reaction will be if and possibly when the Pirates do nothing at the trade deadline. In my eyes, as a fan of the Pirates for almost 25 years, its unacceptable to do nothing. I will find it hard to believe that the “asking price” was too high or that we need to keep our prospects.
    Remember that Kyle Drabek was the prized prospect for Roy Halladay, how’s he doing right now? Oh, he’s in AAA. Or what about the Brewers when they traded prized prospect Matt LaPorta for CC. How’s that .235 average looking right now in Clev.?
    My point is, prospects are what they are. I’d say there’s 3-5 guys the Pirates shouldn’t trade, but you need to make some type of move, the FO owes it to us. The fan base and city and the team deserve better.

  130. What happened to common sense? says:

    @pghboyinca

    If you had an idea what you were saying then this would be an interesting conversation, but I’ll amuse you. Certain stats are indicators of certain things. Fielding percentage is an indicator of catching and throwing the ball when it comes to you. The “cherry picked stats” you tried to criticize are indicators that Chase d’Arnaud was making things happen on the bases. Steals, getting the extra base, and getting into position so others can drive him is what a top of the lineup player is supposed to do.

    Ross Ohlendorf had 2 starts this year. He’s also had the best ERA on the staff the last two full seasons (3.97).

    Ryan Doumit had hit 4 HR, 4 2b, and had 15 RBI is 93 AB (2 months). Here’s a little math for you. That’s about 15, 15, and 60 for a projection. Chris Snyder had 3, 3, and 17 in 96 AB which projects to roughly 11, 11, and 62. 26, 26, and 122 is a lot of lost production from the catcher’s spot that is ON THE D.L.

    Not sure where you got Jose Tabata’s (.230 avg in his last 150 AB) Jose Tabata’s AVG went up every month .242, 257,.295. That’s April, May, and June respectively. In his last 158 AB (May and June), Tabata was actually hitting .278 with a .359 OBP.

    But anyone with any sense knows those things or can actually look them up.

    Or at least people who don’t make things up to prove some point that people with a brain know isn’t in line with reality.

  131. Karen22 says:

    Hope Dejan is working on a BIG STORY (i.e.: HELP is on the way), because it’s 9:30 a.m. and we’ve all been awake for quite awhile! :>)

  132. pattonbb says:

    Tabata was playing pretty well before he got hurt. Unfortunately, he might be gone for quite a while. That hurts.

  133. pattonbb says:

    I don’t think DK puts a Wakeup Call out for the weekend.

    Monday – Friday only.

  134. Marc says:

    I am concerned many of our pitchers are starting to “hit a wall.” If the front office thinks our pitchers have been pitching over their heads all year and it is about to come to an end, there is no trade NH can pull off that will help win the division. And if that’s the case, why get rid of a prospect. Maybe take on someone and their contract (and send a low-rated prospect back in return), but don’t trade someone promising.

  135. Curt says:

    @Marc, if that’s the case then we need to unload Maholm now. Imagine what you would get for him in slim pitching market already.

  136. LikeaBugonaRug says:

    But if we can see the pitchers hitting a wall, if that is what is happening, then other teams who have people who get paid to do this can see that, too. So why would another team trade for one of these guys if they’re not going to be able to pitch well for much longer?

    After watching last night’s game, and to cut them some slack they did have a rough go of it in Atlanta and getting to Philly, Jones looked pathetic in RF and Wood at SS. How were we to know we’d miss Ronny this much? And how did Neil let that one get through? He looked sluggish on that one.

    Would love to know the conversation Hurdle had with Morton after he’d been taken out. Some “fatherly” love? Did see Hurdle smile a little, and Charlie, too.

    This is a rough stretch, and proving we are not among the elite teams, but we are a good team. Let’s see what happens the next 2 games. It’s been quite awhile since they’ve had a complete meltdown like last night. Hopefully a good rest and an easy morning will help them recover and play like they have been.

    But to those who want to bench Overbay, unless they bring up someone, who else is going to play first? It’s not like he’s blocking anyone who is currently on the bench.

    If the Bucs don’t acquire anyone, I’m not going to be upset. No, I’m not saying it wouldn’t be nice to be able to bench Overbay and/or Jones. But I’m not sure that trading the number of top prospects it would take to get us enough players that would put us in the Series this year is worth it. Unless we struck lightning in a bottle and they would hit a homer every other game at a minimum.

    Kevin

  137. Dejan Kovacevic says:

    No Wakeup Call on weekends, angry asylumites.

  138. Karen22 says:

    OOPS—sorry, DK! You’ve been gone awhile and I forgot! Still hope you have some NEWS for us today…

  139. Eric Bowser says:

    @LikeaBugonaRug – Yes,, they can certainly do something to change the abomination that is happening at first base and right field. I’ve seen enough wasted chances from Overbay, Jones, Diaz, and Pearce to keep me hot during a long and cold 2011 winter.

    There’s no power in this organization and yes, I’m including Pedro Alvarez with that statement. He’s done very little with the stick over the last year to make me think he’s a lock to hit the ball consistently enough to ever be a legitimate power hitter (30+ HR).

    That’s why I laugh at the notion Huntington is building a strong minor league system. Where is the proof? Sure, he’s drafted some good looking pitching prospects but the last time I looked, you still needed to score runs to win.

    Over the last 5 years, NL Central division title winners have scored an average of 4.83 runs per game. The Pirates are averaging 3.82 in 2011 and please tell me where the 2012, 2013, and 2014 run production will be coming from?

    2010: CIN – 4.87
    2009: STL – 4.50
    2008: CHI – 5.31
    2007: CHI – 4.64
    2006: STL – 4.85

  140. LikeaBugonaRug says:

    @Eric,

    What happened the last 5 years in the division is no requirement for what is needed to win it this year. They have absolutely nothing to do with the other.

    Yes, it would be nice to score more, but I don’t know that we’d be able to acquire enough bats in order to make much of a difference. If we win this year, it’s going to have to be with pitching and playing small ball. And so far this year, we are getting by with that. Will it keep up? Who knows. And at the same time, getting a bat of someone who is going well now doesn’t mean they will keep it up the rest of the season.

    The most important stat is W’s and L’s. Can we get more W’s than the other teams this season? Not can we get more than the division winners got over the last 5 seasons. Right now, we need to get through(survive) these next 2 games in Philly(where it’s going to be very hot) and then get home against 2 teams that we need to go at least 5-2 against to get us back in it.

    The Brewers and Cards face each other for 3 games, the St.L heads to Florida for 4 while unfortunately Milw. has another 3 games against Houston.

  141. pghboyinca says:

    poster with no comon sense,

    As usual you bring apen knife to a gun fight. I am giving you the actual nuimbers for Tabata. Between April 15th and May 19th your boy had 11 hits in 85 ab’s and for a batting average of .129 (and hat represents 20% of the season, he was actually benced for 4 games in that period) He also Slugged .187 during that stretch (personally I htink it is appallling to use the word slugged and .187 together) This corner outfielder hit 1 homerun with 5 r.b.i.’s over that period which tanslates to 5 h.r.’s and 25 r.b.i.’s for the robust corner outfielder. And i actually gave hm too much credit when I said he hit .230 over his last 15 AB’s he actualy hit .242 over hi last 208 at bats. He had amonster start and then lot his power and was a liability.

    You reference about d’Anaud is so laughable that even you have to admit it makes you look insane. Soemone stats ar so bad that your counter arguement to actual numbers that are legue worst is that some esoteric babble about hs job is to “make things happen” He hit .225 with 3 r.b.i.’s in 102 plate appearances, he only beat me by 3 r.b.i.’s and I am home on the couch watchng.

    Ohlendorf did only pitch 2 games (with an era of 7.27) and you bosting about him having the teams lowest era over the last 2 years? Is that supposed to be soemthing tobe proud of? We had the worst pitching staff in all of MLB the last 2 years and last year was one of the worst in the last 20 year in all of MLB. If you walked into an insane asylum you would have the highest I.Q but would you be proud of that? Wait let em say soemthing I can say with a little more certainty. If you wee to walk inot an insane asylum you would be in the top 50% f they measured the I.Q. of all the inmates in said asylum.

    The facts don’t lie you can manipulate and twist them but the are unwavering. This team is paitching ourt of its mind and that can’t continue. That started with a pathetic offense because they lack professional talented hitters and that has not changed.

  142. Eric Bowser says:

    @LikeaBugonaRug

    The point of the run stats is to show this team needs to acquire bats for this season and beyond to be competitive in this division as I doubt anyone in the system is going to make a difference.

    Look at the terrible depth and lack of talent at 1B and LF/RF in the minors:

    1B: Matt Hague, Matt Curry, Alex Dickerson
    OF: Andrew Lambo, Quincy Latimore, Rogelios Noris

    And it isn’t like Marte, Grossman and Rojas will shift from OF to corner OF with power. Those three likely project to be like Jose Tabata and Alex Presley.

    Then, let’s look at 3B, nothing there with power to shift from third to 1B/RF/LF.

    I’ll say it again, what has Huntington done to change the Pirates fortune outside of some nice pitching prospects? If we have nothing in the minors for 1B and LF/RF to provide power and if Alvarez continues to struggle hitting the ball, then this team is going to sink into another 3-5 year rut without acquiring help via free agency or trades.

  143. Happy G says:

    Let’s take a step a back and put everything in perspective. It’s July 30th and we’re in contention. Think back to 4 years ago if, and I know it’s a big IF, we were in this same position who would we have had in the minors to trade? McCutchen? Walker? Weren’t they the only two and the rest of system was sub par. At that time I don’t think Walker had much trade value.

    Let’s face it, the entire organization has improved during the last few years. The product on the field, in the minors, scouting, Dominican Republic training facility, etc.

    Don’t panic, we have improved pitching and hopefully the FO will improve our hitting today or tomorrow. D McCutchen wasn’t even available last night because he threw 92 pitches in the marathon the other night. We’re tired but will be fine.

  144. Marc says:

    Have always been curious about this: If GMs are talking all the time, why do so many trades take place during games and teams are required to pull guys out of the middle of the game?

  145. Eric Bowser says:

    Peter Gammons just said on MLB Network that Pirates offered to take on all the money left on Aramis Ramirez’ deal and they said no. I wonder how much truth is in that nugget of information.

  146. What happened to common sense? says:

    it’s Peter Gammons. He’s a Hall of Fame writer who probably has sources who no one else does. I seriously doubt he would say anything that he didn’t have evidence to believe is true. Just my opinion…

  147. Arriba Wilver says:

    @What happened to Common Sense. Did you use to post as “What’s Wrong with You People” on the PBC Blog? Just curious.

  148. Arriba Wilver says:

    Eric–”they said no” meaning the Cubs did or that Aramis did? Last I heard Aramis wouldn’t waive his no trade clause to come to the Bucs.

  149. Eric Bowser says:

    Gammons said the Cubs pulled back and said no.

  150. Eric Bowser says:

    By the way, my griping about the lack of hitters in the system is why the Pirates need to significantly overpay for Josh Bell.

  151. pghboyinca says:

    Ertic Bowser, Your point about the minors and lack of talent is dead on, outside of a few pitching prospects that a corpse cold have drafted as the G.M. of this team our minor league system is weak. What ware all these Latin kids from the academy? What about all the over slot high school kids that were the backbone of “the plan” What about the minor leaguers acquired in all of Neil’s trades? What about the supposed “Pirate way” this front office spoke of that would groom these talent acquisitions?

    What about this? The wheels are very close to coming off the MLB team, the band aids, chicken wire, and scotch tape are starting to let go and Neil is standing by watching it happen. You do’t have to mortgage your future but you have to get bat no matter how creative you have to be to at least show you care. If there is a good young first baseman that is blocked you can trade a young pitching high end prospect because if you have 5 ears of control that is a good trade. Do we really need to think of Overbay or Jones at first next year? We need an anaswer at first base going forward and we don’t have an option close. What about SS going forward? Sanchez is no given at catcher with his performance. We need position players all over the diamond and N.H. has not shown any sign of being able to identify them at any level.

    Commonsense, Why no reply Mr. baseball? Facts get in your way? Not having them never semed to bother you before.

  152. pghboyinca says:

    Eric, The Pirates need to give Bell a blank check and tell him to fill in the numbers. But rest assured the excuses are all ready to be sent out as soon as we don’t sign hm. “We can’t destroy our internal salary structure” “His agent didn’t do hm any favors” “he was never serious about signing, he wants to go to school”

  153. cmat0829 says:

    Here are my thoughts, in case anyone cares.

    1) Pirates NEED to upgrade offense at 1B and at least temporarily RF.
    2) They can accomplish #1 WITHOUT mortgaging their future and parting with top key prospects.
    3) #2 is true because (a) the current Pirates production at those 2 positions is PATHETIC and (b) there are players that are available that would certainly provide an upgrade. (People like Willingham and Derek Lee for example).
    4) Other than perhaps Aramis Ramirez, I really don’t think there are any REAL HUGE IMPACT players available to the Pirates that if they acquired them, we’d all say, wow, we might just WIN this division. I mean Carlos Quentin might be the only one apparently available (and I say apparently b/c their asking price seems to be exorbitant) that might fit that bill… but honestly, if the Pirates did part with Pedro and Taillon to get Quentin, are we really printing playoff tickets?

    5) The ONLY justification for trading any of the top prospects is if indeed the player acquired would be a DIFFERENCE MAKER … imagine how much regret we’d have in October to pull the trigger on a deal that trades away top prospects only to finish say 83-79, a few games out… with no real guarantee we can put it all together again just like this year and likely fall back a bit next year before the real prospects (Pitchers mostly) make their way to the ‘Burgh?

    6) Vast majority of deadline deals come, ahem, at the deadline… so panic not. The Pirates will indeed upgrade 1B and RF, though I doubt it will be major names…again, someone in the vein of Willingham and Lee is my guess.

  154. pghboyinca says:

    CMAt, Those additions wouold be fine, at least we are lettingthe players know we are trying. We need some bats in the system in general, forget this year how about this decade? Need an influx of yong position players.

  155. What happened to common sense? says:

    Arriba…No I haven’t posted on there. The PG is no longer on par in my mind.

  156. CDBrewer says:

    @ Bowser and Pghboy,

    This is not our window, and was never supposed to be. Most of the talk the last two years has been our window would open very late in Cutch’s years with us (and Marte would be taking over).
    The Phillies can make the Pence deal, the Giants can make the Beltran deal, the Tigers, and the Rangers are in their windows. This got ignored last night – the Phillies are aging – they have 2/3 more years. The Giants will lose Timmy and Cain in a couple years.

    This is a bonus year. Look at ’88 for your comparison with the Bucs. If we pull off the BIG DEAL that year, we would have pre-empted the 90-92 run, very likely.

    This is not to say, don’t do anything, but I really think you guys dismiss how rundown the Dominican facility (and reputation) had gotten, and how barren the farm clubs were when the current FO took the reigns. I will admit I am not thrilled with the progress of the drafts, but arms win championships, not bats. Cliff Lee, CC, Halladay, Lincecum, even going back to Schilling and Johnson during the worst of the steroid era – there is where the money is.
    Think about the fact CODY ROSS was the difference maker for the Giants – freakin’ CODY ROSS. Sure, we need some help, but we’re closer where it counts.

    If the Cubs won’t trade ARam in the division…they won’t. If Beltran won’t come here, he won’t. This year has been about rebuilding a reputation within the league for players to actually think this might be a worthwhile place. Clearly we need to show more in the offseason, but the boulder is no longer rolling over us, we have stopped the negative momentum.

    Yeah, we need help, but we also need to see a much larger picture than 2 months with a team that wasn’t ready this year. Was never going to be. Just not seasoned.
    Hell, the Reds have a ton more experience than we do, and they are behind us (and just got swept by the Mets at home).
    Don’t lose perspective – not about FO either way…gotta walk, then run.

  157. What happened to common sense? says:

    @pghboyinca

    This is what you said (copied and pasted). “Tabata, what was he hitting .230 in his last 150 AB’s before the DL?”

    Now, after proving you wrong, you’ve changed your time frame. “Between April 15th and May 19th your boy had 11 hits in 85 ab’s and for a batting average of .129″ Which, by the way, is absolutely wrong. From April 15th to May 19th he was 17 of 90 which is a .189 average. Use a calculator to check it.

    Not only are you picking a one month window for your statistics (and getting them wrong) out of 3 months of work; you have already been proven wrong on the first statement that you obviously pulled out of thin air. Also, the other two months he went 51 of 167 for a .305 average.

    This is the link to Tabata’s split stats. As I said, notice May and June (his last actual 158 AB before going on the disabled list), Tabata was actually hitting .278 with a .359 OBP. I’m still not sure where those 150 AB’s you mentioned before were taken.

    http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/8647/splits;_ylt=Ap5bCmL7P46IVumRoXxVuBWFCLcF

    It’s pretty obvious that you don’t know what you’re talking about cause you’ve already been busted once for throwing out fake stats that aren’t remotely accurate. Now you’ve tried to make a case without checking your argument for accuracy. That means you’re not worth arguing with anymore. Thanks for playing.

  158. What happened to common sense? says:

    @pghboyinca

    A helpful hint to you; you may want to check or improve your spelling. It’s really hard to take this stuff seriously, even without the incorrect and made up stats. (copied and pasted)

    What ware all these Latin kids from the academy?

    I am giving you the actual nuimbers for Tabata.

    This corner outfielder hit 1 homerun with 5 r.b.i.’s over that period which tanslates to 5 h.r.’s and 25 r.b.i.’s

    Soemone stats ar so bad that your counter arguement to actual numbers that are legue worst is that some esoteric babble about hs job is to “make things happen”
    Is that supposed to be soemthing tobe proud of?

    Wait let em say soemthing I can say with a little more certainty. If you wee to walk inot an insane asylum you would be in the top 50% f they measured the I.Q. of all the inmates in said asylum.

    The facts don’t lie you can manipulate and twist them but the are unwavering. This team is paitching ourt of its mind and that can’t continue.

    Good day all.

  159. Eric Bowser says:

    CD – Then please explain to me, when that door ever comes back to be opened? There’s nothing coming in 2012 and 2013 outside of more slap hitters like Marte, Grossman and Rojas for the outfield and I’m not sold on the skills of Hague and Curry at first base. Even if they take a big gamble with Bell by signing him to first round pick money, he’s still a raw talent about 3-5 years away. By 2013, you would hope Taillon, Heredia, and Cole are here in Pittsburgh allowing the team to move the current pitchers like McDonald and Morton. At some point, a quality pitching prospect or two like Owens, Wilson, Locke, McPherson, Cain, Rosenberg, etc. will need to be on the block.

    As much as I’ve been focusing on 1B and corner outfield, they are not exactly stacked with quality talent at SS, 2B, 3B or catcher. They took a huge gamble with Tony Sanchez and he’s been a big disappointment, that pick looks more and more about money decision than talent.

    Anyways, I’m railing on the FO because there’s very little coming this way to support a 2012 and 2013 winner.

  160. LikeaBugonaRug says:

    Eric – I don’t think you are being fair to either Tony Sanchez or the FO in your summation of this pick. Here are Tony’s stats prior to getting hit last year: 2010 BRD FSL .314(avg) 59(games)207(ab)31(r) 65(h)17(d) 0(t) 4(hr) 35(rbi)94(total bases)28(BB)41(k)2(sb) 1(caught) .416(obp) .454(slug).870(ops) Not too bad, wouldn’t you say? He got hit in the head/face twice in June last year. Are you saying the FO should’ve known before they drafted him that he would get hit in the face and suffer those injuries and miss the rest of the season? He may never recover from the facial injuries to where his batting skills return to what they were. We don’t know that yet. But to take the knock at him without taking into consideration the facts of the before and after is negligent on your part.

    Kevin

  161. pattonbb says:

    Matt Hague has hit at every level he’s played at. Does he really have to play a gold glove caliber first base? Is that position so deep in our organization that we can afford to be picky?

    I’m not some huge Hague fan. I’m just a Pirates fan who see’s a guy at Indy playing 1st base (with this line – .313/.373/.467 with an OPS of .840), while we continue to watch Overbay give ab’s away.

    If they don’t deal for another 1b, then at least give Hague a look.

  162. pghboyinca says:

    What happened to common snese,

    You are really a piece of work . So now since you can’t dispute the numbers that I correct you on you want to go on to grammar and spelling? I don’t do a lot of written communication since I have an assistant for buisness emails and letters. I think it is quite obvious you are way out of your league in terms of a meaningful dsicussion about your employer over on Federal street. Frank and Neil must be proud of you for posting on weekends to try and bolster their weak stance on standing pat as the parade goes by. The bubble is about to burst and e unfortuante part is this group is about to reap even more of a bonanaza because of the fans belief that they would stick by their owrd and spend money when necessary.

    Tick…tick….tick…….

  163. Bizrow says:

    Knock, knock

    Who’s there

    Opportunity

    Sorry, Neals not home, he says you won’t be here per his calculations till 2014

    Do you folks still believe he can pull something off?

    If so, I will be the first to click my heels and state I’m wrong

    We’ll see tick, tick, tick

    Meanwhile the Cards are close to picking jup Furcal….

  164. pghboyinca says:

    If this regime is not going to improve this team why not move Maholm and pick up an asset? If he reeally likes it here he can always resign as a free agent if his option is not picked up for next year. If they do nothing to improve this team why would you hang onto him unless you plan on picking up his option? That would be the worst possible scenario, do nothing fade out of contention and miss the opportunity to get better next year. If that scenario plays out this mangement is worse than I thought and hard thing to imagine. Hey Common, is the spelling and puctuation O.K. for you in this post?

  165. Eric Bowser says:

    If the front office does not believe in the 2011 team, they sure as heck won’t in 2012, so they might as well trade Maholm.

  166. Bizrow says:

    Again, and they can easily disprove me

    They don’t know what to do, never been here before, never expected it

  167. JAL says:

    I guess the digital age has made people forget analog clocks. Not tick tick, tick tock as in Tick Tock goes the clock or I hear the tick tock
    Coming from the clock on the wall or even Kesha with Tick tock, on the clock
    But the party don’t stop

  168. Eric Bowser says:

    jonmorosi Jon Morosi
    #Pirates need bat and bullpen. #Athletics have both. They’re talking, sources say.

  169. Dave G in Mason, OH says:

    I saw a lineup for tonight’s game somewhere earlier which shows Ciriaco at short and batting lead-off; Diaz in the second spot. Pearce starting as well. No Overbay.

    I went to see the rest of the line-up and now I can’t find it.

  170. Eric Bowser says:

    Ciriaco 6, Diaz 7, McCutchen 8, Walker 4, Pearce 9, Wood 3, Alvarez 5, McKenry 2, McDonald 1

  171. Dave G in Mason, OH says:

    @ Eric: Thanks!

  172. Eric Bowser says:

    Orioles trade reliever Koji Uehara to Rangers for Chris Davis (1B) and Tommy Hunter (RH SP)… this could mean the Orioles are more willing to send Derrek Lee to Pirates for the equivalent of a bucket of balls.

    Anything at 1B is better than Overbay, Jones and Pearce.

  173. Bizrow says:

    I’m thinking more 60 Minutes style of clock ;-)

    If I’m wrong, I’ll gladly admit it JAL

  174. Bizrow says:

    Eric, did you make that line up up?

    Crap

  175. Bizrow says:

    Its alll up to Fort

    That is Nostrabiz’s prediction for tonight

    Beat Em Bucs

    Go like 60

  176. CDBrewer says:

    Hey Bows,

    Sorry, I didn’t mean to not respond – had to step out.

    I think the offseason is when they can, and should buy into the team for ’12. I do not even buy into this team because SO many players are finishing up their first year in the bigs.
    I believe that this year sets the table for next.
    Nobody goes from 57 wins to World Series…moreover, nobody goes to playoffs with SO many guys intheir first full year – including the pitchers. McDonald and Morton are in their first full big league seasons. Karstens is going to set a new high in innings. I believe that sets the table for a better finish for all of the team next year.
    My bet is based on the seasoning of a full season and having some experience with August – for all of them.

    Now, I do not want to dismiss that I completely agree with you we need at least a big bat. I see that as an offseason priority. THIS winter is the winter to add – we have proven we can be competitive. Adding before this season would have seemed like lighting money on fire to me – I had very little hope for this season. I thought we would see growth, not the legit team we see. Now, if they don’t go add good players – either through trade or free agency – then, I will concede. But I just don’t see any piece out there that would have been worth resetting our farm system to close to where it was.
    Your point about not having anything internal to come up next year is okay with me…next year should be playing for real.

    For now, Conor Jackson would be nice for cheap, but the prices – Uehara for Davis PLUS? Pence for two top 25 prospects? This isn’t our window – we can’t beat the Phillies, Giants, or Brewers this year.
    Gotta realize that, we aren’t winning this year no matter what.

    But it has been, and should continue to be a good ride…at least for a while.

  177. CDBrewer says:

    Derrick Lee is hot right now…in a month he will feel like Overbay Part Duex.
    We didn’t get Langerhans either, but he was available.
    I like Conor Jackson, but he isn’t an answer more than half a step up.

    Really Willingham isn’t much of an answer either…
    Those are bench guys on very good teams…The game changers might cost more than we have (see: Pence deal).

    Movement for the sake of pleasing self has a name…many of these moves are just self-stimulation, to keep it clean.

  178. Eric Bowser says:

    CDBrewer – The one thing we don’t know is how the current players react to a trade deadline where players came this way, not out the door. Imagine for a second, Pirates acquire Derrek Lee (who has been hot) and an outfielder like Ryan Ludwick (60+ RBI on bad team) to come to Pittsburgh and in 3-4 weeks a healthy return by Tabata and Presley.

  179. JAL says:

    Biz,

    ‘If you listen closely to 60 minutes clock it tick tock tick tock

  180. Dave G in Mason, OH says:

    Derrek Lee not in tonight’s line-up for Baltimore… may have been traded to… Pittsburgh?

  181. Dave G in Mason, OH says:

    Very hot rumor that Orioles getting Chris davis allows them to trade Lee to Pirates. Twitter is on fire about this.

  182. Dave G in Mason, OH says:

    Yet one other tweet says that Bucs made an offer for Lee that was basically ‘a joke.’ Not enough value for O’s.

  183. Dave G in Mason, OH says:

    Buc’s and A’s talks over Willingham are dead, per Buster Olney.

  184. Eric Bowser says:

    Derrek Lee, Johnny Damon, Ryan Ludwick to Pirates…. let’s go Neal…make it happen.

    1. Damon, LF
    2. McCutchen, CF
    3. Walker, 2B
    4. Ludwick, RF
    5. Alvarez, 3B
    6. Lee, 1B
    7. Doumit, C
    8. Cedeno, SS

 
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