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Final: Reds 11, Pirates 8

Looking ahead to first pitch …

Game: Pirates (58-64) vs. Cincinnati Reds (60-64)

Time: 7:05 p.m.

Site: PNC Park

TV, radio: Root Sports, News Talk 104.7 FM

Weather: 75 degrees, rain early but clearing later

Here is the official live box score, and here are the lineups …

Pirates:

  1. Jose Tabata, RF
  2. Garrett Jones, 1B
  3. Andrew McCutchen, CF
  4. Ryan Doumit, C
  5. Neil Walker, 2B
  6. Ryan Ludwick, LF
  7. Brandon Wood, 3B
  8. Ronny Cedeno, SS
  9. Kevin Correia, RHP

Reds:

  1. Brandon Phillips, 2B
  2. Fred Lewis, LF
  3. Joey Votto, 1B
  4. Jay Bruce, RF
  5. Todd Frazier, 3B
  6. Drew Stubbs, CF
  7. Ryan Hanigan, C
  8. Paul Janish, SS
  9. Homer Bailey, RHP

News updates are on our Pirates page. Rob Biertempfel will cover the game tonight.

Comments

  1. JAL says:

    Bailey has been very good against the Pirates, hope that stops tonight.

  2. Bunch of fair weather fans... says:

    Good to see the Tabata and Walker extension talks. Both guys have sentimental ties to the Pirates that make it pretty special for them and the fans.

  3. JMB says:

    @DK

    I’m confused?

    Are you calling Heyman, a guy that is constantly on MLBN, a fabricator?

    If a man of his rep puts it in an article (not a throw-away tweet), I am inclined to believe it.

  4. Drew71 says:

    Dejan – does that happen? Referring to your tweet, that PBC may want to extend Tabata and Walker to encourage McCutchen to sign. Do guys look over their left and right shoulders before deciding, or are these mostly individual deals?

  5. Drew71 says:

    JiMBo – Think more broadly than that. Someone with an ax to grind about high bonuses, for instance a high revenue team that wants to protect their natural advantages, could leak such a scenario to a writer. Think of politics where leak-wars happen all the time. At least half the stuff leaked turns out to be exaggerated or just wrong.

    And also think around trade deadline time. Think of all the stories that are just plain wrong. Not because they didn’t happen (some trades are discussed but don’t occur). But rather, sometimes stories based on guesses and rumors end up creating a life of their own and the story gets printed.

    Additionally, there is a tremendous amount of competitive pressure in some areas of the media to be first with a scoop. What might be wrong, or based on shreds of circumstantial evidence may not be a fabrication. But it can be as wrong as one.

    And sure. As with all areas of life, there are probably some liars out there. Doesn’t mean THIS guy is. Just saying here and there, it happens.

  6. Bizrow says:

    Once again, I’m a day late and a dollar short?

    Whats the deal with Heyman?

    @Drew, I kinda understand the Cutch/Walker/Jose connection. Cutch wants to win?

    It rained like all get out here today, nasty

    Dejan’s Lunatic Nation – at the Trib,
    Arizona – Tucson, Chandler
    Arkansas – Rogers
    Austrailia – Mackay
    California – Bakersfield, San Francisco, UNION CITY, Los Angeles, Newport Beach, Hollywood, Huntington Beach, Yuba
    Colorado – Ft Collins
    Connecticut – Cos Cob, Bridgeport
    Delaware. Newark
    District of Columbia
    Florida – Palm Harbor, Orlando, Valrico, Gainesville, Daytona Beach (somewhat reluctantly), Oviedo, Tampa, Jacksonville
    Georgia – Marietta
    Germany – Leverkusen/Cologne
    Hawaii – Honolulu
    Idaho – Mountain Home, Coer d’Aline
    Indiana – Indianapolis
    Iowa – Bettendorf
    Illinois – La Salle, Peru, Payson, Chicago, Palatine (3 inmates there), Lincoln Park, Grayslake
    Japan – Tokyo
    Kentucky – Louisville
    Louisiana – Slidell
    Maryland – Arnold, Odenton, Severn, Baltimore
    Massachusetts – Boston
    Michigan – Kalamazoo, Eaton Rapids, Lansing
    Mississippi – Biloxi
    Nebraska – Omaha
    New Hampshire – Barrington
    New Jersey – Chesterfield, Princeton, Roxbury, Lebanon
    New York – New York, Smithtown
    North Carolina – Asheville, Hickory, Charlotte
    North Dakota
    Ohio – Cincinnati, Columbiana, Westerville, Green, Hilliard, Toledo, Mason, Louisville, Columbus, Perrysburg, Pickerington, Youngstown
    Pennsylvania – Downtown, Hopewell, Indiana, North Wales, Franklin Park, Forest Hills, Lansdale, Philadelphia, DuBois, Reading, Crafton, Arnold, Wexford, Mt Lebanon, Canonsburg, Lancaster, Huntington, York, Boiling Springs, Philly suburbs, Morningside, Harrisburg, Lawrenceville, Bradfordwoods, Norristown, Hanover, Clearfield, Sewickley, DuBois, Plum Boro, Slippery Rock, Wilks-Barre, Sharpsville
    The Phillipines
    South Carolina – Duncan, Longs, Columbia
    Tennessee – Smithville, Nashville
    Texas – Tyler, San Antonio, Belton
    Virginia – JAL, Hampton, Rescue, Richmond, Front Royal, Woodbridge, Suffolk, Warrenton
    Washington – Seattle, Nine Mile Falls, Spokane
    West Virginia – Martinsburg, Morgantown
    Wisconsin – Madison, Oshkosh

    131 locations represented in the blog,
    8/19/2011 5:54 PM

    If you want to log in, just shout out where you are currently residing

    Thx

  7. JAL says:

    Biz

    Heyman wrote an article saying Selig was upset with the Pirates and Nationals over what they spent in the draft and also Werth’s contract. It had no quotations from Selig. The question is if Selig is not quoted how much is accurate.

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/jon_heyman/08/19/draft-cap/

  8. TS says:

    JMB

    Can you fill the rest of us in on what you’re talking about? DK calling Heyman a liar? Huh?

  9. Bizrow says:

    Thanks JAL

    Well the budmeister probably is ticked

    There goes Slick Frank’s ticket outta here, crap ;-(

  10. JMB says:

    @TS

    I’m not really sure. See the last thread. http://blog.triblive.com/dejan-kovacevic/2011/08/19/wakeup-call-another-ridiculous-nfl-rule/

    Heyman is on MLBN right now, so I think if he just made this up the Bud-meister could have lobbed in a call and gotten him off the air today.

    I think DK is trying to make some esoteric point, but I think he is on dangerous ground. Beertemple has an article right now with “sources” talking about NW & Tabby ext’s, and is DK saying that we shouldnt believe any article that doesnt have direct quotes?

  11. Drew71 says:

    Biz – Daytona Beach is pretty reluctant about it, too.

  12. JMB says:

    Heyman — According to people in attendance at the owners meetings in Cooperstown

    Beertemple — … several team and league sources told the Tribune-Review today.

  13. TS says:

    JMB

    Pretty innocuous article by Heyman. Don’t understand what all the hub bub is about.

  14. TS says:

    I trust and respect both DK and Heyman. They both tell it like it is, and are awesome at being the first with a scoop, re: Heyman’s reporting of Cole and Bell, first.

  15. TS says:

    JMB

    I also agree with you on the “league sources” aspect.

  16. Drew71 says:

    “Beertemple”?

    i KNEW there was something about that guy i liked.

    Beats the heck out of iced chai lattes.

    Huh, Dejan?

  17. Dejan Kovacevic says:

    @JMB: You seem to be misunderstanding my point: The repeated versions of this report, which might well be wholly correct, are saying that Bud Selig is livid with the Pirates and Nationals.

    In our business, you don’t attach a sentiment or emotion or stance to someone without that person saying it. You just don’t. It comes across as misleading and, in most cases, actually does mislead people into thinking Selig actually said something to this effect on the record. Clearly, he didn’t.

    It’s hearsay.

    Huge difference between that and using anonymous sources for actual news things. This is attributing something that’s in someone’s head — being livid, angry, happy, whatever — to other people. That’s an impossible attribution to make.

    This has nothing to do with the veracity of the report. Just the way it attributes a feeling to someone who doesn’t express anything in the piece.

  18. TS says:

    Tabata’s new deal with the Pirates is guaranteed through the 2016 season and includes a restructuring of his contract for 2011. The team has options for 2017, 2018 and 2019 for a total of $37.25 million.

    His salary increases to $500,000 this season, along with a $1 million signing bonus in 2011. Tabata will make $750,000 in 2012, $1 million in 2013, $3 million in 2014, $4 million in 2015 and $4.5 million in 2016.

  19. Drew71 says:

    Very thoughtful, thought-provoking response, Dejan. Must be the cold tea latte.

  20. JMB says:

    @DK

    Thanks for the clarification.

  21. Dejan Kovacevic says:

    My fault for not making it clearer earlier. I can see where what I wrote could be misinterpreted really, really easily.

  22. J.D. says:

    DK,

    Enjoy your work as always. In the chat transcript yesterday, you answered a question related to the minor league placement of Cole and Bell stating that they would have been better off signing in June, which I agree with. According in Jim Callis at Baseball America, MLB will not approve a signing bonus that is more than 5% over slot until a couple of days before the deadline, with larger deals being announced closer to the deadline. Pirate fans shouldn’t get upset over the delays when Cole and Bell could have agreed to deals before the draft and still not have been allowed to sign until Aug. 15th.

    It is a crazy system that needs updating, but still not hard slotting.

  23. JMB says:

    I feel like a WWF(E) wrestler that is about to switch sides. I gotta go buy some mustache wax & coloring to go all Hollywood Hogan!

    If the Pirates keep making these moves, I will turn into a NH defender. Of course, his draft results (“We need to be right.”) will be the final determining factor.

    The deal for Tabby seems crazy at the back end, but the Pirates will have either traded or released him if he isnt performing up to expectations of $12m per yr in 2017.

  24. TDB1977 says:

    Now that Tabata has been locked up at least the next 6 years, its time to lock up Walker and McCutchen to similar deals. Then the kids that were drafted last year and this year come up to the big league club and this team could so something special.

  25. Drew71 says:

    From JiMBo’s ESPN link — “The source also said that Tabata broke apart from his former agency — ACES, Inc. — because of his negotiations with the Pirates.”

    does that mean the agency was so upset because their client did what he wanted to do, sign rather than wait and milk every last penny? That this caused the agency to agree to split rather than say “yes sir, you’re the client”???

    I’m not one who blames the agents for players’ decisions as if the players are pawns. In fact here is one example of a kid not being a pawn. But if my interpretation is true, I would still find this to be, for a different reason, inappropriate.

  26. Drew71 says:

    JiMBo – The guaranteed dollars are not way out there. The BIG dollars are all in the options. So if the kid develops the power they hope…the option years would be worth it (and the early years would be a huge bargain it he powers up). If he doesn’t develop power, no options assumed, no Jason Kendall franchise-choking dollars for a singles hitter if the options are declined

  27. JMB says:

    Where’s Overbay when you need him?

    I kid!

  28. meglasdad says:

    Just curious, I wonder if maybe McCutchens contract is being held up to see what Tabata and Walker get first? Has been known to happen. Can’t have your star making less than the other guys. Not a slam at anyone, just the way it seems to work. Also, as to Tabatas agents. They might have left him because they thought he could get more. If he takes a below market deal, all the other agents will use that against them when they try to recruit other clients. Can’t really blame them, even if it is refreshing to see. Also, Mr. Bizrow would you please add Clarksburg WV to the list. Check here pretty much everyday, just never had you add me. Thanks.

  29. Pattonbb says:

    I keep getting this feeling that Cutch is in absolutely no hurry to extend his contract. Hope I’m wrong.

  30. JMB says:

    We can only hope that if Cutch is not interested that Marte can take over in 2014-ish.

  31. Steve Smith says:

    Kevin giving up yet another multi-run dinger. Offense also not doing anything against Homer yet again. Game may already be in doubt, but I hope not.

  32. JAL says:

    Any idea why Correia, Karstens, and McDonald give up so many homers while Maholm and Morton don’t? First three all at 20 or more while Maholm at 11 and Morton at 5

  33. Bizrow says:

    Jose is getting ripped, if the salaries are true

    Did I say that 1 million guaranteed?

    Max of 4.5 million though, sheesh

    I hope its more

    Couple more thoughts as crap we lose the lead

    When I saw the Bell meeting with NH, I would have sworn that was Slick Frank with a buzz haircut next to him, not Boras

    That friggin Charities sign needs to go

    The shot from the blimp when Correia was batting reminded me of sitting in the upper deck center field from Three Rivers

    Crap, we are going in the toilet here in the 5th

  34. absolute59 says:

    First let me say that I think NH negotiated a good deal with Tabata. Although I must admit I don’t understand the need to lock him up after a few months in majors last year and an injury shortened season this year.

    Haven’t we repeatedly heard from the BMITS with regards to Cutch that we need to see him repeat the seasons before they are going to extend.

    Its seems to me that they jumped the gun a bit on Tabata extension; but if he does turn out to be a top outfielder they got a hell of deal in the extension.

    I just wonder what is the rush. How about seeing he how performs the rest of the season this year before extending him. I can’t believe he doesn’t take this or some very similar deal at the end of the year even if he tears it up the rest of the year.

  35. absolute59 says:

    Jal: Take a look at FB%. Morton is among the lowest in the ML in FB%.

  36. JAL says:

    absolute

    Yes, Morton understand. Why the others give up so many I don’t and why Maholm is at 11 when the other are 20 or more.

  37. Steve Smith says:

    Any chance the pitchers start actually backing these guys off the plate some and start throwing inside more? Our staff doesn’t seem to be of the making that makes them good at throwing outside like other teams do to us. Way too many guys are standing right on or near the inner part of the box. Too many of Kevin’s pitches have been right down the middle with no movement – except the hanging curve that Phillips crushed. He needs to do something else. This offense needs to do more as well. Come on Bats!

  38. absolute59 says:

    In thinking about extensions could it be that PBC believes that as part of the ticket price increase for next year they need to show how they have locked up players for the the future. So so long up the two easiest pieces instead of the most important piece.

    Of course failing to extend your best young player and locking up two lesser players reeks of extending Van Slyke and Bonilla instead of Bonds. We all saw how that worked out.

  39. absolute59 says:

    JAL: Correia FB% is 36.5% which is 36 of NL 56 starters. Karstens FB% is is 36.7% whis is 37 of 56 NL starter; McDonald FB% is 42.1% which is 52 of 56 ML starters.

    By comparision Morton leads the league in FB% with 17.9

    So they are all below NL average in giving up FB and of course the more FB you give up the more chance of HRs.

  40. Steve Smith says:

    Okay, two straight innings of bases loaded, we need to get some sort of extra-base hit here. Come On!!

  41. Steve Smith says:

    Nice we got a run, but it would be better to not have to trade an out for one as usual. Do something positive Ludwick!

  42. Steve Smith says:

    Too many of these guys missing straight 88-90 MPH fastballs. Never good.

  43. JMB says:

    I think the Tabby ext is so ridiculously team friendly that the whole “wait and see” approach got tossed out the window.

    If Cutch gets a CarGo ext, I wander how Tabby will feel.

  44. JMB says:

    I have to think the price increase will be 20% for 2012.

    They can show the $50+mm in drafts and the ext’s as a reason for a large bump, and the ten years since the last raising makes a great case for a big increase to lead towards Brewers prices in the next 4 years.

    I have to think the plan is to close that 44% gap over the next few yrs.

  45. Eric Bowser says:

    JMB – I think the Pirates should go right to the 44% number. When I look at the prices 15.41 compared to $22.19, that’s a good price for a sports ticket in this town. A fan spends $22 on the Pirates, probably $50-75 on Pens, $100-200 for Steelers.

    The Pirates just need to explain their rationale (10 years without a raise, need $ for payroll) and then lock up their youth (Tabata – done, Walker – almost, Cutch – next).

    If those 3 can be locked up before the team makes the official price announcement, it will go a long way towards calming the masses.

  46. Steve Smith says:

    Beimel not getting anything done since his return.

  47. Eric Bowser says:

    The last time Beimel had an appearance without a hit or walk was July 24th.

    Since that game, he’s appeared in 11 games giving up 16 hits and 2 walks

  48. absolute59 says:

    Can we please end the Lincoln in relief experiment????

  49. Steve Smith says:

    Great emotion and cheering on the offense from Grilli. Maybe should have brought him in instead of Beimel. We need the base hits to start flowing.

  50. JMB says:

    LangoschMLB
    The #Pirates have placed Paul Maholm on the 15-day DL with a left shoulder strain.

  51. Eric Bowser says:

    wow – big news for Maholm.

    Hmm, strange pitch location by Bray on Walker

  52. TS says:

    Beimel is not good enough to be in the majors. Maholm is probably done for the year, and may have thrown his last pitch for the Pirates. Looking forward to Pressley and D’Arnaud returning.

  53. Steve Smith says:

    Would be nice for us to finally get a longball off this staff that give up a ton of them, but most have probably come in Cincinnati, than on the road. Put some wood on it Wood!

  54. Eric Bowser says:

    Brandon Wood having a good game. 2-run single

  55. Steve Smith says:

    There you go Brandon!! Come on now Cedeno get it done!

  56. TS says:

    Wood deserves to come back next season.

  57. TS says:

    Even if the Bucs raise tix by 20$%, that’s still more palatable than $50 for a Pens ticket or $100 for a Steelers ticket.

  58. Pattonbb says:

    @TS – I agree. Wood has showed some grit and versatility.

  59. TS says:

    Pattonbb

    And I think he’s a better hitter than Cedeno.

  60. Pattonbb says:

    I think comparing ticket prices for Pirates and Steeler games are apples and oranges. Steelers play 7 home games, Pirates play >80.

  61. Steve Smith says:

    Anybody else notice that other hitters in the leagues can actually take something off their swings to at least get the balls to fall in, while the Bucs always seem to try and swing for the fences and always end up hitting it way too hard and right at someone? Of course this innings should not be going this bad if the first base up was not hanging out with Meals. Horrible feed by Cedeno there and now we are down by two AGAIN!!!

  62. TS says:

    Pattonbb

    It still doesn’t take away from the fact that the tickets are more expensive. :)

    _____________________________________________________________________

    And riddle me this Batman? Why are so many people enamored with Ronny Cedeno?

  63. Eric Bowser says:

    HUGE hustle play by Tabata AND Jones!

  64. Steve Smith says:

    Good hustle by Jose there, and nice at bat by Jonesy!

  65. Pattonbb says:

    bunt?

    Just kidding….

  66. Steve Smith says:

    Nice try by Jones, but he was dead on arrival for that play. The third base coach finally took the chance at the wrong time to send a guy. Three other times tonight he didn’t send anyone when it may have been possible on at least two of them. Come on Douy!

  67. Eric Bowser says:

    Not a wise decision by Leyva after he held runners all night… geezus

  68. Pattonbb says:

    Being critical of the third base coach might be the easiest thing for a fan to do. Having said that, add me to the crowd that doesn’t inderstand Leyva’s thinking 75 percent of the time.

  69. Eric Bowser says:

    Reds are begging Pirates to take this game.

  70. Steve Smith says:

    Come on Neal let’s take it from the Reds since they don’t want it. Of course the safe call from top of the inning would actually have us leading now if it hadn’t happened.

  71. Eric Bowser says:

    Pattonbb – In situations like that, it is easy to rip Leyva or any 3B coach. This team can’t fail at the basic fundamentals of the game and that decision was stupid, really stupid.

  72. TS says:

    I think Eyetique in Squirrel Hill should donate a pair of glasses for Mr. Leyva.

  73. Dejan Kovacevic says:

    Don’t mean to be negative. The Pirates are clearly playing a really dogged game here. But there is no earthly reason that Nick Leyva should even THINK about waving Jones. It never should have entered his mind with no outs and Masset getting creamed.

  74. Eric Bowser says:

    Bases loaded again…. Ludwick with gold on the bases….

  75. Pattonbb says:

    Eric – absolutely agree.

  76. Steve Smith says:

    Out by a mile!

  77. Eric Bowser says:

    Seriously?!?

  78. Steve Smith says:

    This game will never end!

  79. TS says:

    So Leyva essentially cost the Bucs two runs tonight. Nice.

  80. Steve Smith says:

    I though Ludwick got a better piece of that ball, but apparently he must have hit it off the end of the bat.

  81. Pattonbb says:

    uh oh…..Leyva might want to make sure his résumé is up to date.

  82. JMB says:

    Well, if you had told me when it was 6-2 that we would be tied in the 9th, I’d have taken it.

    However, it feels like we blew a golden opp.

  83. Steve Smith says:

    It actually looked like Cutch got his foot around the tag and onto the plate before the tag, but that was not a good move with that ball being so shallow. Stubbs has a pretty good arm.

  84. TS says:

    I think Leyva needs to be the bench coach, and not be allowed anywhere near 3B.

  85. Steve Smith says:

    Killer lead off walk right there. Not good at all.

  86. JMB says:

    @Steve Smith

    I thought the same thing. Where is Jerry Meals when you need him?

  87. Eric Bowser says:

    Pirates need Alex Presley back soon, I’ve seen enough of Ryan Ludwick as a starter.

  88. CDBrewer says:

    Gotta say, I think Hurdle WANTS Leyva sending em like that…

    By the way, quite the shift in strategy using Hanny in the past 10 days, eh?
    hmmmm, wonder if Hurdle rethought what he was doing.

  89. Steve Smith says:

    The guy is a rookie and Joel is pitching to him like he’s Votto. Come on!!!

  90. Steve Smith says:

    That happens when you get into a hitters count and can’t through your pitches properly. Not good at all!

  91. Eric Bowser says:

    of course, Doumit has a tough play at the plate and he mangles it.

  92. JMB says:

    bad throw + poor catcher = catastrophic baseball

  93. TS says:

    *&%$^!!!!

  94. Steve Smith says:

    Doumit looked to be too far out in front of the plate anyway if he did catch it. Looked like he would have missed Votto anyway. Nice that the lead off walk happened. They ALWAY seem to score against us. Joel has now blown several leads or ties in the last couple outings.

  95. TS says:

    Doumit is a sieve

  96. Pattonbb says:

    One of these days we’ll look back and think,. “Man, Doummit would’ve made a good corner outfielder”.

  97. TS says:

    Doumit has Bill Walton hands

  98. Eric Bowser says:

    Hanrahan let the home plate umpire dictate this inning by getting upset with the first pitch ball. It set the tone for him and not looking good here.

  99. TS says:

    Turn out the lights, the party’s over

  100. Steve Smith says:

    Unless wood can keep up his good game at the plate in the bottom half, I don’t think we have a chance at a come back on this one. Too many wasted chances. The baseball gods only give you some many. I REALLY hope I’m wrong. Prove it to me Bucs! Scratch that – Game over now!

  101. TS says:

    You can blame Hanny, but you really can’t blame Hanny. If you get my drift.

  102. Joseph ~ Huntington Beach CA says:

    What a frustrating evening.

  103. TS says:

    But after all is said and done, it’s just a game. Sex and pizza are more fun.

  104. Bunch of fair weather fans... says:

    Paul Maholm is going on the Disabled List. Left shoulder strain.

  105. Florida Steeler says:

    Leyva got run out of Philly. Wonder why?? Seems to be a nice guy schmoozer but lousy third base coach. Two runners thrown out in the same inning???With one of the runners being one of the worst base runners in baseball–Garrett Jones. Of course King Homer, himself—Steve Blass supports the idiotic move.
    Can’t we get objective Pirate announcers??? Brown and Blass are awful. Walk is the only credible announcer they have and Navarette no too bad. Wehner—what a joke!!!

  106. JMB says:

    I realize that I misread the #’s on the Tabby contract.

    “The team has options for 2017, 2018 and 2019 for a total of $37.25 million.”

    I thought that meant $12mm-ish for each of those years, but the entire value of the contract is supposed to be $37.25 for all nine years.

    So ’17-’19 will be something like $22mm for all three years ($7mm/$7.5mm/$8mm).

    I have read a few posts on various sites that say Tabby will be a 20+ HR hitter in the next few years. I say no way, and I dont think Tabby believes that either because he wouldnt have signed for such a low # if he thought he would turn into an Ethier-esque bomber. Ethier will make more in 2010 + 2011 than Tabby will make for the first six years of the deal!

  107. absolute59 says:

    Remember Tabby is the guy who married the 45 year old crazy lady so maybe his judgment is not always done with his brain and he goes with his heart. That might explain his seemingly giving the PBC a really good deal.

  108. pghboyinca says:

    I agree about Blass, he is pathetic. Also love Walk, honest and funny. Sending a runner with no outs and the hear of the batting order up is ridiculous. How many outs has this team run into this year?

    The Tabata potential signing has disaster written all over it. If he doesn’t perform we are screwed and i fhe does he will be unhappy claiming his agnet screwed him because he was young and naive. It has no way of working in our favor, believe me that is a ticking time bomb.

  109. pghboyinca says:

    And rememeber his idol is Many Ramirez, how did Manny react when he felt he had a bad contract? (and his was for 22 million a year)

  110. SouthSideBucsFan says:

    I’m not really seeing how the Bucs are “screwed” both ways by the deal. The six guaranteed years are all pretty reasonable, with $4.5 million being the highest cost … and let’s face it, he can’t possibly be worse than Lyle Overbay or Matt Diaz at that price.

    If he wants to complain about it being too much of a bargain, he should blame himself for splitting with his old agency and for signing his name on the dotted line.

    Frankly, I’m happy we went ahead with it, and I’m even happier we’re talking to Walker as well. I’m not going to get too caught up in what may or may not happen three years down the road.

    Now, on the game last night … if Nick Leyva is still coaching third base next season, I’m not going to be too happy. He’s cost the team a bunch of outs this year.

  111. CDBrewer says:

    I think we are all discounting that the contract ext with Tabby came out at the time ha asked to wear 21. He has Clemente tattooed on his chest.
    He is young, hasn’t realized it’s a business, but is living out his boyhood dream.
    Didn’t we all, at one time or another, think we would take less to be a Pirate?
    Didn’t we all, at one time or another, work for a company/employer that we believed in a little
    more than we should have?

    I kinda like this side of Tabby – even with the crazy wife…remember when he was crying on the video DK took last year? Neat kid, playing a game…

  112. Arriba Wilver says:

    I have a hard time seeing that the Tabata deal is a disaster in the making, either. On the downside, if he doesn’t perform it looks like the outside cost is $4.5 mil. for a year. Hardly franchise busting, even for the Pirates. That’s basically what Duke made here last year, and is what Aki made last year. I haven’t seen any devastating downsides from those two factors. I don’t think the FO should be credited with being the BMTIB because of the signing, or that it even shows any commitment to keep our core players (it’s very team friendly), and I certainly have concerns based on their history and track record of buying out arb years and a year or so of free agency, but all that being said, it seems like a reasonable approach. What’s the alternative? Not signing him to a team-friendly deal?

  113. CDBrewer says:

    Arriba,

    Great point on the average being Overbay (now a Dback) or Aki (now a human jelly donut).

    We would throw that money at a 2/3rds time vet to supplement the roster we don’t know each year.
    I figure we wouldn’t give up on him for 2-3 years anyway, then it isn’t that big a deal to swallow in the WORST case scenario…and should the club decide it isn’t a good contract, the last years are much like what we took to take Snyder. We probably could trade it to get out from under.

    I am a little worried about it because 9 year deals aren’t given out to many people, but doing things differently might be our only choice (zero on parking…*shaking my head*).

  114. Arriba Wilver says:

    And I was only focusing on the potential downside. The upside is they are paying hiim more in this $400K minimum years than they otherwise would have to, but as we point out ad nauseum, the payroll is low now, and probably will continue to be, so give it to the players. It won’t keep the FO from addng anyone or inking deals with Walker and Cutch. If they wouldn’t have done it on the basis that maybe Tabata gets unhappy later, it probably would be the first time that happened in the history of sports. Worst case, he is unhappy because he outplays it, and they still have the option to renegotiate, trade him or not pick up the option. I see no downside.

  115. CDBrewer says:

    Yep, also agree that the FO really doesn’t have any choice when they have the opportunity to sign a long term deal that is under market value…it isn’t like salaries are going to drop significantly.

    The idea of not signing it because he won’t be happy in 3 years is almost funny – if he holds out, you don’t pay – still a win for the FO.

    Tabata, as I recall, didn’t do a “woe is me” routine about the older woman when that blew up…He could be a head case, but that won’t hurt us for the money in that deal if he is really worth that much more…we will either raise his salary, trade him (for decent value if he is THAT good), or he will be away from the team while it works out – not getting paid.
    None of those are disasterous.

    Maybe we are now looking for things to worry about…
    What is the FO to do?
    We yell when they don’t extend people.

 
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