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Pittsburgh sports talk with the Trib columnist

Vacation discussion thread 5-2

Sorry, should have been doing one of these all along.

I’ll go run laps or something.


  1. Playoffs by 2012 says:


    4 Herbies, full speed.

  2. JAL says:

    JAL’s Surf City Steam Morning Links


    1- MLB Transactions

    2-MLB Trade Rumors-Pirates

    3 Go Buccos- Pirate News (from external sources)


    4—Pirates Prospects

    Big Night From Alvarez Can’t Overcome Rough Start From Morton

    Indians Work Around Three Errors For A Win

  3. JAL says:

    6 Rumbunter

    Sloppy Pittsburgh Pirates Effort Leads to 10-7 Loss to St. Louis Cardinals

    7 McEffect

    5/1 Recap | Cardinals 10 Pirates 7


    Game 23: Cardinals 10 Pirates 7

    9 The Green Weenie

    Hughes Recalled

    10 Raise the Jolly Roger

    Bats stay hot, but…

  4. JAL says:


    11 CBS Sports

    Pittsburgh pitching dominant in April

    12 Evansville Courier and Press

    Vincennes’ Barmes trying to regain form with Pirates

    13 Chicago Tribune

    Pirates Team Report,0,2374155.story

    14 Altoona Mirror

    Alvarez streak gives hope to Buccos

  5. JAL says:

    Pitt Blogs

    23 Pitt Blather

    Hitch Your Wagon to a Star

    24 Cardiac Hill

    A Look At Khem Birch And Other 2012-13 Transfers

    WVU Blogs

    25 Metro News

    Najee Goode, Keith Tandy To Tampa Bay

    26 WV Illustrated

    Sophomore Defender Vincent Jackson Intrigued by WVU’s Irvin

  6. JAL says:


    27 Pensburgh

    Shero’s Dilemma: Re-signing Crosby and Staal with an unknown CBA


    28 Sky Sports

    A no-win situation,,15205_7721120,00.html

    29 World Soccer Daily

    World Soccer Daily: Stories you need to read, May 1st 2012

  7. JAL says:

    Title song Surf City, Jan and Dean, 1963. Just before the British invasion the U.S. music charts were invaded from the west coast with surf music. Jan and Dean had the first number 1 hit with surf music, taking the spot on July 20 from the Essex Easier Said Than Done and dropping from number 1 on August 3 when So much in love by the Tymes took over. Brian Wilson was one of the writers of Surf City but the Beach Boys would not have a number 1 hit until 1964 with I Get Around. Jan and Dean had 16 top 40 hits.

  8. Jandy says:

    DK: Starbucks for everyone!

  9. radio wave says:

    Just returned from 15 day cruise San Diego-Hawaii round trip. Hope you have as much fun on your time off as we did.

  10. NMR says:

    Last night turned me into a Pedro believer.

    Wainright was flat-out filthy in his first two at-bats. The guy literally did not throw a single hittable pitch. Nothing but fastballs away and off speed pitchers nibling the corners before falling off the table.

    Then, in what was by my untrained eye the first pitch that could be considered a “mistake”, Pedro distributes it 20 rows deep.

    THAT is a power hitter, my friends. I have no idea where that guy has been for the last year and a half, but lets hope he sticks around.

  11. Milo Hamilton says:

    In the wake of last weekend’s NFL Draft, I would like to grade Dave Wannstedt’s 2008 Pitt recruiting class – F.

  12. JohninOshkosh says:

    Some extremely cool Pop Culture notes:

    1. The Trib has a short article on its home page about the new “Dark Night Rises” trailer. The film comes out in July and had substantial portions filmed in our beloved Pittsburgh. The article includes a link to IMDB for the trailer. With Bane as the villain, it promises to be one of the masterpieces of the summer.

    2. Kick off the summer fun this Friday with the premiere of The Avengers. Early reviews are strong and ScarJO and Samuel Jackson look like they will be pretty bada** in it.

    3. Finally, this Saturday is Free Comic Book Day. Almost every town from Altoona to Zion has a local comic book store. They do this promotion every first Saturday in May. My local Comic Book Guy says that some of the freebies this year are pretty cool. So go get some for yourself and your kids and grandkids. Who knows, the kids may be so enamored with tangible reading material that they might put down the mobile device and pick up a book or, heaven hopes, a real newspaper!

    Heading out of town for awhile. I know there are a lot of my comic book loving sisters and brothers that patronize this site. GO BUCS.

  13. Jandy says:

    OshKoshB’Gosh ~ That’s it, now I HAVE to see Dark Knight Rises!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    You’re a comic book buff, who’da guessed? ;)

  14. Milo Hamilton says:

    Former Penguin & good friend of Mario, Marc Bergevin will be the new GM of the Montreal Canadiens. He beat out Pierre Maguire. Huh ?

    Bergevin had a great quote about playing with Mario in their younger days. “He had me as his left wing and a garbage can on his right wing. I scored 35 goals, the garbage can scored 60.”

  15. NMR says:

    Man, its almost like people actually come here for that Kovachevik guy or something.

    Crickets for everything but the game blogs since he’s been gone.

  16. JohninOshkosh says:


    I know, right? Someone needs to post about how ”real fans” ought to think and act.

  17. LuckyNKentucky says:

    We need more blog trollers or sock puppets, right?

  18. albatross says:

    I hate everything!

    Will that do for a troll?

  19. Milo Hamilton says:

    Neal Huntington free agent signings. There. That oughta do it.

  20. LuckyNKentucky says:


    They’ve sure stepped to the forefront so far this season, especially with the bats. Barajas and Barmes are putting themselves in line for the Overbay-Burnitz-Operation Shutdown-Terry Mullholland-Chris Gomez Hall of Shame.

    But remember, Bedard, All-Star Correira, Chris Resop, Juan Cruz, Jason Grilli, Nate McLouth were all FA’s, too.

  21. JohninOshkosh says:

    How about we all speculate about what Dejan does on vacation.

    I think he walks around town pretending to use his old Blackberry while searching for Pittsburgh’s 4th river.

  22. Baywatch says:

    Good morning, Gang! Off today, and can’t wait to see AJ’s stuff come into play tonight. But I think as much as that, I’m getting excited to see us – even with last night’s loss – to start hitting better! Let’s Go, Bucs!

  23. LuckyNKentucky says:


    He’s blasting tunes, spending time with his wife and kids, coaching all their sports and Tweeting 24/7.

  24. Milo Hamilton says:


    Let’s say he’s had better luck with pitchers. That’s because he’s had no luck with position players. I know the pool of players he has to pick from is small. But how about getting one right.

  25. LuckyNKentucky says:


    Amen and amen. That’s why I threw Nate in there with those pitchers. As much as we all like him, he’s below the Medoza line now, too. 24/7 had a tweet that he hasn’t had a pinch hit since September, 2010. Thought that might draw a comment from you or some others.

  26. Jandy says:

    Take a lunch break at work, and come here to crack up laughing. Who needs DK? You guys all kill me =)

  27. Milo Hamilton says:

    Here is a list of the position players signed by Neal Huntington as major league free agents. The number in parenthesis after each players name is the number of major league games they played after their time in Pittsburgh was over. I also added Aki Iwamura even though it was a trade for the comedic value alone.

    2008: Luis Rivas (0); Chris Gomez (0); Doug Mientiewicz (20).
    2009: Ramon Vazquez (0); Eric Hinske (265 – active).
    2010: Aki Iwamura – trade (10); Bobby Crosby (9); Ryan Church(37).
    2011: Lyle Overbay (30 – active); Matt Diaz (27 – active).

    DK: Milo, you are a man among men. This list looks like it should become an Andy Warhol painting or something.

  28. Here’s a topic to discuss, as 2012 reaches the 5-furlong pole on May 2:

    2012 has brought Pittsburgh sports fans some great days already.
    It’s also been the habitat of some heart-wrenching days . . . . the Steelers lose to the Denver Tebows, the Pens give away 2 and 3 goal leads like Christmas cards and lose to the Philly Cryers, the Pirates sign Rod Barajas (the sad effects were still there Jan 1).

    What’s the worst Pittsburgh sports day of 2012 so far?

    I nominate January 11!

    1/ The Pens lose their 6th straight game
    2/ Pitt loses its 5th straight game, a Jamie Dixon first, scoring 39 points and shooting 20% from field——to Rutgers
    3/ Duquesne loses big to Xavier, trailing by 28 at the half!
    4/ The lead story in paper that day is HOF ‘Leader of the Wideouts’ Hines Ward making the rounds, unceremoniously begging the Steelers to resign him
    5/ Baseball signs Bud Selig as commissioner of Yankees-Red Sox League through 2014
    6/ The Pirates do nothing

  29. LuckyNKentucky says:

    Great list, Milo. DK tweeted the only position player with any success signed by Neal is Garrett Jones and he was a minor league FA.

  30. Milo Hamilton says:


    That’s a good list, but I’d probably remove #6. I liken Neal Huntington to congress. They’re at their best when they’re doing nothing.

  31. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    I have a topic that I was thinking about on the way home from my marketing class last night, let me do the research and I’ll post.

    Milo- I like the signing one.

    Bedard and Corriea have to stand out as his best FA signings thus far. Also signing Garrett Jones to a minor league FA contract, not a bad find.

  32. LuckyNKentucky says:

    Milo Warhol,

    Strange that none of those guys had much success with the Bucs, even Hinske who is arguably the best of that list- even better than Diaz.

  33. NMR says:

    Who in the world paid Aki Iwamura to play ten more games after the Pirates???

    Were Iwamura and Overbay really the only starters he brought in?

    In my deranged mind, that list actually makes Hungtindon look better than I imagined. I award less negative points for failed bench players than failed starters.

    Now if only the Pirates had legitimate starters playing over those bench players…

  34. LuckyNKentucky says:


    Aki went to the A’s for a cup of tequila.

  35. LuckyNKentucky says:

    Or maybe, sake?

  36. JAL says:

    I will quibble with Jones being the onlt FA to contribute

    He wasn’t great but Doug Mientkiewicz gave them a fair season in 2008

  37. JohninOshkosh says:


    Great list. I noticed you put the “Pittsburgh sports” qualifier because certainly 03/16 (Lehigh beats Duke) certainly has to be near the top (bottom?)of your personal list.

  38. Milo Hamilton says:


    Grading on a curve, huh ? Two starters this year – Barajas & Barmes. You can grade them when you feel it’s time.

  39. LuckyNKentucky says:

    Good point, JAL, and they wouldn’t re-sign him.

  40. Milo Hamilton says:

    I’m going to guess Aki’s time in Oakland didn’t make the movie.

  41. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    Below is a list of the payrolls of the teams with near or below records of the Pirates and their payrolls for 2012.

    It doesn’t take money to scout and evaluate talent. It does take money to retain them. As the team improves, so will the payroll. This is what the FO’s stance has been all along. Some of these teams on the list are the framework for the Pirates rebuilding system. If only they started this a lot sooner.

    MLB Payrolls and records:

    Pittsburgh Pirates $ 63,431,999 #26 (10-13)

    Boston Red Sox $ 173,186,617 #3 (11-12)

    Minnesota Twins $ 94,085,000 #12 (6-17)

    Seattle Mariners $ 81,978,100 #18 (11-14)

    Los Angeles Angels $ 154,485,166 #4 (9-15) Pujols doing worse than Alvarez

    Miami Marlins $ 118,078,000 #7 (9-14)

    Cincinnati Reds $ 82,203,616 #17 (11-11)

    Philadelphia Phillies $ 174,538,938 #2 (12-12)

    Milwaukee Brewers $ 97,653,944 #10 (11-13)

    Chicago Cubs $ 88,197,033 #15 (8-15)

    Colorado Rockies $ 78,069,571 #21 (11-12)

  42. Milo (not the emotionally distant me-me-me baseball announcer!)

    Good call on Neal/Congress issue.

    Neal Huntington was probably out scouting shortstops that day.

    I am constantly amazed that the Pirates cannot find a backup shortstop since 2007.
    They think so highly of Navarro as backup shortstop that he got his first innings there last night in the 23rd game.

    Neil Walker or Pedro Alvarez would be more accomplished at short than Harrison. Alvarez looked pretty good at short messing around at Pirate City during Spring Training.

    At least Clint Barmes is hitting the cover off the ball and fielding flawlessly——so we have no need or worry for a backup shortstop!

  43. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    Groat- Who else was available though? If they would’ve resigned RC, we’d be complaining about not bringing in someone.

    The only other SS available was Jose Reyes….obviously not coming to Pittsburgh even if they had the money for him.

  44. Oshkosh b’gosh,

    You are a mean, mean dude!! You made my tummy do a topsy-turvy!

    Why don’t you bring up Sid Bream’s slide into home while you’re at it?!

    I guess I DID instigate the topic . . . . .

  45. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    @JAL-Who said Jones was the only one? I mentioned he was a good minor league FA signing to contribute. Not including BP guys, they are a dime a dozen.

  46. Milo Hamilton says:


    That $63 million is a bit misleading. The Yankees are paying $11.5 million (almost 20%) of that.

  47. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    Ok…so it makes my point even more then. That would put the Pirates at $51.5 and at the bottom of the payroll list.

    Not exactly my point, but I knew that going into it.

  48. LuckyNKentucky says:

    Nice list, Ryan. The problem is, what will those records be in October?

  49. Milo Hamilton says:


    Why so concerned with saving Bob Nutting’s money ?

  50. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    Not at all concerned about his money and my post isn’t about Bob Nutting. He just spent a boat load on Cutch. My point was more of a bash on the recruiting and player evaluations of the scouting department of the Pirates.

    Its not what you spend on payroll but who you spend it on…

    @Lucky-Can’t dispute that. Just a glance at the first month of baseball. Though Cubs are still going to suck

  51. NMR says:

    Doug Mientkewiczjbdfvjh was everything I love about baseball. Minus that hitting thing.

    What the heck is wrong with the Twins? Last years 95-loss team had the injury excuse, but it looks like this years team is trying to top that.

    @Milo – Whats the over/under on the number of Pirates this year that will hit Barajas’ weight?

  52. Milo Hamilton says:


    Just kidding with you. You are 100% right. I want them to increase their payroll, but would it do any good with this clown picking the players ?

  53. JohninOshkosh says:

    I think Furcal, Betancourt, Alex Gonzalez, Scutaro and Wilson-all free agent shortstops after 2011 would have been upgrades over Barmes and Cedano provided they are healthy.

    They signed Barmes because of personal relationship with CH. I don’t know if they are friends but cronyism hardly ever works. Also, they were rewarding him with, at the time, the biggest FA contract on the club.

  54. Nor Cali Ryan,

    I’m not complaining about Clint Barmes, per se.

    However, shortstop is much too important a position to have no legitimate backup. If a guy gets hit with a pitch or gets taken out at second . . . . . .

    Look at Milo’s free agent list above: half the bogus signings are middle infielders. If Neil Walker had not BY LUCK, not by plot, fallen into Pirates’ hands, Bucs would be destitute defensively up the middle.

    I will also add that although Barmes was the best of the lot this year, this is not just a problem that popped up this winter. Cedeno underperformed at short here since we went-and-got him from Seattle, where he had been benched for a batting average in the .100s and inconsistent fielding. Shortstop has been a problem long before this off -season.

    Foresight! Foresight! Foresight! Foresight! Foresight!

    Might as well put Casey McGeheeheehee at short, for an “All Sluggers” infield. His range and turn at 2nd can’t be any worse than Harrison.

  55. LuckyNKentucky says:


    I agree with you whole-heartedly on the Cubs. Probably some more on that list will suck, too. Just hope it ain’t the Bucs.

  56. Milo Hamilton says:


    The Twins ? It’s what you said yesterday about the eggheads – pitching. Last in baseball at 5.59.

  57. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    Furcal resigned with the Cards for $14M. He wasn’t coming to Pittsburgh.

    Do you mean Jack Wilson? Over and done with. Love Jack, but c’mon.

    I assume the Pirates went hard after Barmes because he has a history with CH. Its still early, but does would love to see some results.

  58. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    Jason Kendall’s still available!

  59. JAL says:


    Lucky posted that DK tweeted Jones was the only FA to contribute. That was what I referring to.

  60. Milo Hamilton says:

    Rafael Furcal would have come to Pittsburgh, if they would have paid him more money.

  61. LuckyNKentucky says:


    It was a tweet and on, whatever that is.

  62. DK,

    Quit tweeting!!! Either go on vacation or come and join the discussion party with us!

    Some of us—a majority of us—don’t tweet and now that the Trib has removed the tweet crawl on its front page, we don’t even have access to them without multiple shenanigans on the computer.

    We can’t miss you legitimately if you are still conversing with 8 % of us!

  63. JohninOshkosh says:


    Absolutely he would have. The other thing is the Pirates signed Barmes very early (2d week of Nov.). They had their sights set on him and nobody else.

  64. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    If I’m a FA (Furcal) I’d be in STL over PITT. Would you have given Furcal $14M? I dont know.

  65. LuckyNKentucky says:


    I don’t tweet either. I just read ‘em because there’s some good info on there. Even 24/7 takes the time to tweet. DK leads the majors in tweeting. He ought to have a beak.

  66. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    @JAL- missed that post, thanks.

  67. Milo Hamilton says:


    It probably would have taken $15 million for Furcal. I think you do have to overpay to some extent. I probably wouldn’t have gone that high either. But don’t say he wouldn’t have come here. Albert Pujols would have come here for the right price. That narrative is old & tired.

  68. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    Absolutely would’ve had to overpay. Pujols would’ve been worth the overpay but I dont think Furcal would have.

    Tulowitski would be worth the overpay at SS, not sure who else would’ve though.

  69. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    Roy Oswalt would rather sit out the season than come to the Pirates. If memory serves, and it doesn’t always, the PIrates were willing to overpay for him.

  70. JohninOshkosh says:

    Look, I look at two teams that took different approaches. The Nats went on a big spending spree and made some big trades. To paraphrase @Milo who posted at the time-don’t know if it will make them a winner but sure would appreciate it as a fan. The A’s completely dismantled their team through bold trades and shrewd acquisitions. Don’t know if they will be a winner but, man, they are kinda fun to watch-even though no one does.

    Not saying the Pirates should have followed either route, but they failed to make a big splash in the FA market and why didn’t they try getting Cespedes? If the A’s and their awful attendance and ballpark can get him-why were the Pirates, with its rich Latin history, not players for him. Would have opened the door to make trades involving their major and minor league outfielders.

    I think they did a great job with the pitching side, although I think they should make a big trade with Hanrahan. But, as to positional players, not so well. Too busy scouting shortstops. I don’t think NH has the ability to think outside the box.

  71. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    @John- Thought exactly the same thing with Cepedes!

    Tabby in LF and Cepedes in RF.

    Since you brought it up, as I did the other day as well.

    If you trade Hanny at the deadline and assume Barmes is at his career averages, what position do you go after? I still say a 1B. Trade Garrett Jones to the AL to become a DH.

    That to me is the biggest issue, who or what position do you go after? SS is still the weakest position throughout the organization.

  72. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    I still think Marte will be up in another month or two. But where does he go? Do we bump either Tabby or Presley out right now?

  73. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    I still think McClouth, Bedard, Hanrahan, and Jones will be traded. If those 4 can get 1 bat with some power…Works for me.

    Rudy Owens takes over for Bedard, Marte in RF, Presley to the bench and pick up a slugger for 1B. No idea who though.

  74. Marte is hitting only .274 at AAA with few (2?) homeruns.

    Presley is hitting higher than that (10-game hitting streak) and Tabata has really been scorching the ball (HR last night!) recently to get his average close to .250——in the Majors!

    What benefit is there to Marte or to Pirates to bringing him up in another month.

    Let him marinate at Indy.

  75. Milo Hamilton says:

    Could we have a season before we start trading everyone. Again. Frankly, I don’t want this guy trading anybody.

  76. JohninOshkosh says:

    I think everyone in the organization ought to be subject to movement, except Cutch. Even playoff teams often have quite a different roster come postseason than what was fielded on opening day. Have to be willing to make trades though. Not just salary dump trades or rebuilding trades either. Reflection, observed someone much smarter than me, is the poison of desire.

  77. JohninOshkosh says:


    Point well taken. Well gotta catch a flight. Enjoyed the baseball talk, everyone. Often my opinion is swayed by you guys and gals a mere moment after hitting the dreaded submit button.

  78. John Lease says:

    Vacation? Sports is a 24-7 job… :)

  79. Milo Hamilton says:

    @John Lease

    So. You were saying about Barmes …

  80. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    Ha Ha Milo for above.

    Oh I agree to see where the season goes before trades. Not like we have the Cubs record right now.

    I saw Marte at .283. Not that big of a difference really. I expect that to improve, but I also expect Barmes and Barajas to also, so whatever that is worth.

  81. NMR says:

    @Milo – seems the only egghead with any consistant success is the one in Tampa. Is it any wonder that he does it with pitching?

    That, in my mind, is Huntingdons one redeeming quality. He’s knows you win through pitching. Hopefully the Pirates next GM will look like a genius, a.k.a. Kevin Towers, when he supplements a rotation built on NH aquisitions with some decent position players.

    As for the trades, the Pirates have exactly one player of value and thats Joel Hanrahan.

    You haven’t been paying attention if you think guys like McClouth and Jones are worth any kinds of prospect. The market for Bedard has already been rumored to be at an average hitting prospect level.

    Unless we’re talking about packaging all of them together for a major leaguer, then I say keep them all and actually try to win some ball games this season.

  82. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    I didn’t say they were worth anything, just the fact that they would be traded. They will make room for new acquistions.

  83. Jandy says:

    Junior Seau found dead! YIKES!

  84. NMR says:

    New aquisitions?

    I hear our GM is great at those.

    Can’t wait!!!

  85. Jandy says:

    Unconfirmed…but reports of a shooting at his home…not looking good.

  86. Milo Hamilton says:

    Junior Seau – TMZ reporting self inflicted gunshot to the chest. That’s how Dave Duerson killed himself also.

  87. National Mart of Records,

    “I say keep them all and actually try to win some ball games this season.”

    Excellent call. The last thing we need is more ‘prospects’ for down the road. Let’s try to win in Pittsburgh this year for a change.

    By the way, I just opened yesterday’s Post-Gazette (I’m a slow reader) and found that Ron Cook wrote about the worst sports day of 2012. Even though he was no where close to right, I am chagrined that I posed my discussion question today around Noon.

    Please, God, don’t let me start thinking like Mr. Sweet & Sour Pork, Ron Cook!

    However, Gene Collier has a good article in today about pitching, Pirate pitching, and Bob Walk. Gene Collier knows baseball.

  88. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    Don’t get me wrong, I hope they win with the players they have here now. I don’t like the idea of trading any of them.

    Junior Seau? Wow.

  89. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    Nothing on ESPN about it yet, still looking for a link.

  90. Jandy says:

    “Please, God, don’t let me start thinking like Mr. Sweet & Sour Pork, Ron Cook!”
    Oh Lord, I’m dying over here, G2M2S! =)

  91. Junior Seau, Randy Cosgrove at Ambridge/Steelers, Jonathan Vilma, Roger Clemens . . . .

    . . . . mamas, don’t let your babies grow up to worship sports heros

  92. Jandy says:

    Interesting the LA times said shot to the head. Yahoo’s version said to the chest. I’m inclined to believe it’s to the chest…but who knows?

  93. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    I think so too Jandy. They reference the local paper there.

    I can see how someone like Junior could have those same head injuries as the others. Shot in the chest for a brain exam after, sad.

  94. Jandy says:

    Ryan, sad, indeed! I remember watching Seau all those years and thinking he would never retire. And now this…sad, sad…

  95. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    He’s always a guy you respected. Played hard, great attitude.

  96. JAL says:

    Football has become a brutal sport. There are some calling for radically altering the game. Happened a long time ago when a few schools banned the sport and President Theodore Roosevelt stepped in demand reforms. That movement led to the formation of the NCAA.

  97. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    So what do you do JAL? I played my whole life. Never had any issues. (course I wasn’t half as good as the pros)

    These guys know what the possibilities are, but you can’t tell an athlete to stop playing the way they have their whole life.

  98. LuckyNKentucky says:

    It’s these massive human bodies hitting each other like locomotives and the inability of the industry to manufacture a head gear that adequately protects the athlete that is the problem. Make everyone come in at Pop Warner weight and that problem is solved. Until then, it’s going to go on, like Ryan said.

  99. Jandy says:

    This makes my blood boil Grrr!:

    GODell strikes again. Can anyone tell me how many Patriots players were suspended without pay for the season or parts of the season for spygate???

    I’d be surprised if GODell isn’t a target himself one day soon.

  100. JAL says:


    I have no idea, they are already tinkering with rules–like the new kickoff line to decrease violent collisions on kickoffs and the rules on hitting the QB.

  101. LuckyNKentucky says:

    No offense to the ladies on the blog, but Jack Lambert was asked how to better protect quarterbacks and he said “Put a dress on them” with that nice smile missing the front tooth. I don’t think that’ll work or Tom Brady would never have gotten hurt.

  102. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    Jal-Right and the players hate that. Fans do too, but it has to come down to player safety. That’s why the league makes the rules and not the players.

    @Jandy- BIG difference between the two. The players didn’t do the spying, that was Belichek and crew. The Saints players had EVERYTHING to do with the bounty hunting. Vilma was Gregg Williams right-hand man on this thing. He should be gone for life.

  103. Milo Hamilton says:

    You may remember that Seau was arrested for domestic violence back in October of 2010. Driving back from the police station, he drove his car over a cliff but it landed safely on the beach below. It was widely suspected he had attempted suicide that day.

  104. JAL says:


    Very different situations. Spygate was a coaching/administration event. The bounty was players participating and putting up money.

    In Spygate they gave Belichick the largest fine they could, fined the team, and took away their 1st round draft selection.

  105. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    @Lucky- Great idea on the weight thing. Playing commisioner for the day; do you weight class it by position or overall?

  106. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    @Milo-No, I totally forgot about that. I could remember there was SOMETHING there, but couldn’t remember at all. Thanks

  107. LuckyNKentucky says:


    It would have to be overall. I remember sitting out some games because I was a fat kid. Not in HS, of course, but early on we played some Little League teams and some of us had to sit. Not remotely feasible as a pro, of course, but we didn’t get hurt much in those early years nor were we wild animals or freight trains.

  108. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    I agree Lucky……tough to do right now though. Not to mention the weight issues that the lineman have or will have.

  109. LuckyNKentucky says:

    It’s strange that soccer, rugby and basketball, which are contact sports, don’t seem to have as many concussions and mental disorders as football and hockey players who actually are required to wear helmets.

  110. JohninOshkosh says:

    It will be interesting to see what the forensic pathologists discover from autopsies to Seau, Duerson, the hockey players and others. Specifically, I wonder if there is a possible link between concussions and steroid use as to with both physical and mental disease. There are a lot of questions that need answers.

  111. LuckyNKentucky says:

    Shame, too, John that the business aspect gets in the way of getting those answers.

  112. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    Lucky- I don’t think the NHL or NFL can hide behind their shields anymore. The truth will come out and probably change the sports as we know it.

  113. LuckyNKentucky says:

    Thank God for that, Ryan. Baseball was almost ruined and was tarnished forever. No sense in ruining football and hockey, too.

  114. Arriba Wilver says:

    JAL–I’m not following you on Belicheck’s fine being the largest they could. And apparently they could have suspended him a year like Payton. I agree because of the player involvement these are two different situations, but I think it’s also not accurate to imply they did all they could to the Hoodie.

  115. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    AW- Here’s the article from ESPN with an explanation from Goodell. Kinda agree with him on the reason to not suspend him.

  116. Arriba Wilver says:

    Thanks for pointing that out, Ryan. And I see Goodell addressed the fact that he could have suspended him, and didn’t. Not sure I buy it, though. Goodell’s explanation is kind of suggesting it was an either/or kind of situation, and it wasn’t. Aside from the Steeler bias I have, the burning of all the evidence still stinks, and makes the rest of it smell.

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