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Pittsburgh sports talk with the Trib columnist

Final: Pirates 5, Mets 4


Looking ahead to first pitch …

Game: Pirates (19-22) vs. New York Mets (22-19)

Time: 7:05 p.m.

Site: PNC Park

TV, radio: Root Sports, 93.7 The Fan

Here is the live box score.

And here is the Pirates’ lineup vs. New York LHP Johan Santana

  1. Jose Tabata, LF
  2. Josh Harrison, RF
  3. Andrew McCutchen, CF
  4. Pedro Alvarez, 3B
  5. Neil Walker, 2B
  6. Casey McGehee, 1B
  7. Clint Barmes, SS
  8. Michael McKenry, C
  9. Erik Bedard, LHP


  1. AJS says:

    I can only assume Pedro is DHing for himself at 3B.

  2. AJS says:

    For a team we were praising for its outfield depth at the start of the season, they sure are reaching right now.

  3. JAL says:

    Yes, the expected outfield depth has not happened–one projected starter is in Indy and the expected 4th OF has been a washout so they down to using a 5th OF to start.

  4. AJS says:




    Anyone else.

    So we skip Jones because it is a lefty pitcher.

    They want to keep giving harrison ABs. I get that. But why put Barmes in the line up? JHa hasn’t looked so terrible at short. Definitely looks better than Barmes at the plate.

    So why not start JHa at short and Navarro in right?

  5. JAL says:


    5th as in whoever they use now–they brought 4 true OF north so anyone beyond them is the 5th even if not a natural OF

  6. bob hasis says:

    AJS it was mentioned to me in the earlier window – a fact I totally forgot – there are $5 million reasons why Barmes is forced by CH or NH or whomever to get out on that field and make a fool of himself

  7. Bizrow says:

    JHay has to get some time, sooner or later at SS,

    But he won’t…. Aki-like right now, deja vue….

    Ok, playoffs, what bet am I gonna lose tonight? ;-)

  8. JAL says:

    Last year Overbay had a $5 million contract and they released him as soon they were able to get a replacement, Lee.

  9. JaxBuc says:

    I’m thinking the over/under tonight ought to be total stikeouts for both teams in nine innings (in case it goes into extra innings, still scoreless). Twenty would probably be too low.

  10. Milo Hamilton says:


    But Overbay didn’t have a 2nd guaranteed year at $5.5 million.

  11. AJS says:

    I guess those $5 million are compelling reasons, but even Aki eventually go booted for Walker.

  12. gregenstein says:

    @AJS – “So why not start JHa at short and Navarro in right?”
    Navarro is no better right now and in fact belongs in AAA himself. If he was hitting as well as the great Mario Mendoza, you’d have a beef.

  13. JAL says:


    True but think if they had a better option they would play him. I go with them thinking Barmes is going break out his slump and approach his career norm. The longer he stays under .200 the more likely it is he will play less.

  14. RobertoForever says:

    Still don’t like Pedro in the 4 spot.

    If McGehee is struggling anyway, let him hang in the 4 spot. Makes no sense to heap more pressure on Alvarez to he is firmly entrenched in a successful batting approach.

    Other than that, not much complaint.


  15. cmat0829 says:

    Like it or not (and I will presume most of you do not like it), Barmes gets another start because he had 2 hits yesterday and you need to see if that is the start of him getting back to his career norms. As a vet, he does have a track record and the Pirates will err on the side of giving him every chance to get it together (see Barrajas, Rod).

    That said, if his struggles continue for too much longer I could definitely see Harrison plugged in at SS for an extended time… but there is NO ONE at AAA that is ready or deserving so don’t hold your breath there. As far as trade candidates, doubt there is anything available…. open to reasonable suggestions as to who you feel might be available.

    One other point… I’ve seen a few posts indicating that picking up Adam Lind would be worth a shot because it “wouldn’t cost anything”…. um, Lind signed a fairly sizable contract a year or so ago and any club picking him up would be on the hook for all of it. It is that contract that allowed Toronto to put him on full waivers hoping that another team would pick him up and let them out of the obligation. That speaks volumes to what that team thinks of his future.

    I admit that there are instances where a discarded player flourishes for a team that “dumpster dives” — (see Bats, Joey) — but do any of us have any faith that the Pirates would be the recipient of that? Its much more likely that Pirates cast-offs get it together somewhere else (see Vogelsong, Ryan).

  16. Milo Hamilton says:

    The Pirates have traded Drew Sutton To Tampa for either cash or a player to be named.

    Huh ?

    Drew, we hardly knew ye.

  17. pattonbb says:

    I’ve been screaming for Barmes to grab some bench time too, but he did have a couple hits yesterday. Can’t really sit him after that. If he manages one or two tonight, it could help him get out of this funk.

    Go Bucs!

  18. AJS says:



  19. AJS says:

    Good point about Barmes two hits yesterday. He does this though. He gets a 2 fer one night and then goes 5 games without as much as making contact.

    I get it though.

    My argument for Navarro, though he is also hitting well below Mendoza, is that if you are going to start a guy with terrible average at least start one with long ball power.

  20. Milo Hamilton says:

    It’s a player to be named for Sutton. He’ll go directly to Tampa. I’m crushed for the good fans of Indianapolis.

  21. bob hasis says:

    I’m curious if NH has any idea of all of this negative sentiment he has heaped upon us.
    I wonder if NH gives a rat’s butt of the frustrations we are experiencing.
    I would like to know if NH is TRYING to do anything about it, or is merely sitting in his lofty perch with his hands cuffed by “you know who”.
    I’m further curious if NH sends down edicts to CH about the composition of his lineup.

    We laymen/laywomen see all of the problems, or at least what we perceive as problems, yet the same lineup glitches occur.
    Vince Lombardi said, “never make the same mistake once”. CH/NH never heard that it appears.

  22. Karen22 says:

    Well, at least McNoClout isn’t in the lineup, but Harrison in right?? Is Gorkys still up?? Why not give him a start and sit Barmes and his (useless) $5 million butt? Oh, I see—he broke through his oh-for-quarter-of-the-season with two hits yesterday. Deserves another start. Uh huh. Sa-WING, batter!! (Oops, can’t hit THAT one)…

    And Drew Sutton just heaved a huge sigh of relief…

  23. Milo Hamilton says:

    This is shocking – former WVU coach Bill Stewart has died of an apparent heart attack. Only 59.

  24. Bizrow says:

    IMO Overbay is completely different than Barmes, Neal is not going to munch on 5.5 million owed him next season in 2012. Come mid 2013 and he’s still struggling, that might be a different story.

    But you know, depends on what seat you sit in in the peanut gallery. ;-)

    We are going to see Barmes production or not quite a bit at SS.

    @bob, thats because CH/NH have never made a mistake ;-)

  25. cmat0829 says:

    An to the overall offensive offense, not real sure there are any good options at this point….there are a few approaches:

    1. Keep giving vets a chance to “get it together”….. I know Neal and Clint often refer to “track record” and this is the approach they obviously favor. That is why McGehee, McLouth, Barajas and Barmes (and to a lesser extent Tabata and Jones) are getting the at-bats. The great hope is that they will start to hit (as Barajas has done) and the offense will kick into at least “weak” mode (vs. historically atrocious level now). This was never gonna be a high-scoring offense anyway.

    2. Plug in a “spark plug” to jump start the offense. Similar to last year when Josh Harrison and Alex Presley was recalled (and then shortly after d’Arnaud). I remember a few games where the speed and energy at the top of the lineup injected some offensive excitement and I think some runs (can’t recall the actual stats). Seems to me the Pirates are hitting a decent amount of homers but are doing NOTHING to get on base, take a base, exert some pressure. NOTHING. Problem is that Presley wasn’t “sparking” anything except a path back to the dugout after striking out, Tabata has been awful at leadoff, d’Arnaud isn’t ready and only Harrison is showing some life similar to last year. Who internally (bench or AAA) profiles as a spark plug. I can’t think of anyone worthy but I’m sure you all can post some options.

    3. Trade and bring in some offense (or sign a free agent I suppose). Problem is offense is an issue for a lot of clubs (not to the Pirates level but still….) so anyone easily available has some baggage. And trades of consequence (talent for talent) seldom happen before July (see any number of articles and analysis). I suppose you could pry Alfonso Soriano or Carlos Lee from their squads but is that what we really want? Years more of contract & $$$s owed?

    4. I’m as frustrated as any fan and if I were the GM, I’d no doubt at least have tried to “shake things up” because I prefer doing something over doing nothing…but not sure I’d feel real confident in any moves I would make…. I guess I wish Neal and Clint would openly and honestly communicate what the “plan is”… something to the effect of : “The offensive performance to this point in the season is historically poor and unacceptable. While we continue to look at outside help, both at AAA and across MLB, we need the players on the roster now to start having better at-bats, to have a plan at the plate, to make contact and drive the ball. Our patience, while there for players with track records of success, is not limitless and we are beyond the point of chalking this up to “it’s early” and “this team will hit”. Actions will be forthcoming and we’d prefer the first action to be better at bats starting now for those privileged enough to be in the lineup.”

  26. cmat0829 says:

    On the Sutton “quick swap”, wonder if it has anything to do with Tampa and Atlanta not seeing eye to eye.. I seem to remember some bad blood relative to being hard to deal with Tampa…so it could be that the Pirates played middleman on this…. otherwise it really is quick for a trade out…. unless tampa was reminded he existed by reading MLB and said ‘Hey, let’s get him for our major league roster”

  27. Bizrow says:


    I really like the idea of your No. 4, but history has taught us that NH will not speak in anything but Nealspeak. We’re only fans, he could care less what we think. Neal knows best, just ask him…..

  28. Bizrow says:

    If we acted as the middle man between two clubs that don’t like each other, did we just tick someone off?

  29. LuckyNKentucky says:


    That is shocking. I know someone that age better than anyone on the planet.

  30. NMR says:


    You’re quote is exactly what I took Huntingdon’s to mean and exactly what I feel he’s doing behind the scenes.

    Neal was absolutely correct in what he said. He just comes off sounding like a baby.

    Last week, the Brewers owner was asked if he would be re-signing Zach Greinke this off season. His answer: “Sure, I’d love to sign Zach”.

    What if NH answered questions like that?

  31. NMR says:

    I’ll never understand why people, after four years, even listen, let alone take offense, to anything NH says.

    You’ve gotta be able to read between the lines or else you’re just looking for more material to b*tch about.

  32. Barmes has not been terrific at short——but he is much better than Ronnie Cedeno at turning the doubleplay and he adds a stability to the infield, especially beside Pedro, that Josh Harrison does not.

    If Bucs are not going to score much, the defense has to be the best we can muster, especially up the middle. I hold my breath every time a ground ball is hit to the left side when Harrison is in. And he can only turn the rudimentary double plays.

    If you are only looking at batting average, by all means put Harrison at short. For the long term benefit of the pitching staff . . . . and winning . . . . Barmes has to play short until a new one is acquired (doubtful) or D’Arnaud gets in almost a full season of experience at Indy.

    The Bucs rate D’Arnaud more advanced than Jordy Mercer. Until he comes, it’s got to be Barmes 5 days a week and Harrison as fill in.

    Besides, Barmes is our best field goal kicker in left field!

  33. Milo Hamilton says:

    The Drew Sutton thing was never going to work out in Indianapolis. I hear the bloggers out there are just brutal.

  34. Bizrow says:

    It must be our fault Sutton got traded then.

    Just like its our fault that Neal speaks Nealspeak.

    And did you see the price of gas lately?

    Yup, mea culpa

  35. JRay3 says:

    Maybe even more alarming to me is the fact that 29 year old (more of his prime) Casey McGehee is hitting .103 with a .128 SLG and .217 OBP in the month of May. If he picks up his bat it allows Jones to play a little more RF and at least have the OF lineup look marginally respectful. If he does not, with feast or famine Pedro in the middle of the lineup, we lose some insurance, Jones has to play 1B and while still can not being able to hit hit lefties and we are in a world of hurt having to run the likes of Navarro, McOut, or our utility infielder to man the grassy pastures.

    So here’s to Casey having a Rod Barajas type moment in the game tonight and helping start this series on a positive note.

  36. JohninOshkosh says:

    What is that favorite phrase of Sabremetricians, “regressing to the mean”? MeGehee and others need to start “progressing to the mean.”

  37. Playoffs by 2012 says:

    In honor of the 45 K weekend performance by the Battling Bucs, the window proudly brings you…..

    Tonight’s OVER / UNDER (always just for fun of course)

    Total Strikeouts by Pirates Batters
    Line is 10.5

    Anyone can play!! Everyone should TRY!! What’ll ya have!! What’ll ya have!!

    Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) +120
    JaxBuc +70
    Nate83 +60
    RobertoForever +55
    Steve J Smith +30
    Milo Hamilton +25
    Officer Mancuso +20
    jeffsbar +20
    cosmo +20
    JRay3 EVEN
    Bizrow -20
    pattonbb -40
    JohninOshkosh -40

  38. JHadar says:

    Monday Moanin’ All —

    Well, you go away for a weekend and a great column breaks out even if the hitting doesn’t. Great job DK, I’ve always been a fan — but today’s effort was above and beyond. Says concisely a lot of things I have expressed poorly.

    The stats guys theory for the ideal batting order has a way of changing, but a few years ago I ran across one that I liked. 1. High OBP, 2. Second OBP, 3. Second SLG, 4. High SLG, 5-8 Descending OPS of the remaining guys, 9. Pitcher

    Trouble with the Pirates is that we need to Clone McCutcheon. But in case of a tie, value the power numbers, so tonight would be:

    1. Walker
    2. Harrison
    3. Alvarez
    4. McCutcheon
    5. McKenry
    6, Tabata
    7. McGehee
    8. Barmes
    9. Bedard

    Of course stats tell you what they did, not what they’re going to do — especially in a single game, and even if you played the same line-up in the field every day, the order would keep changing with players too low when they started to get hot and too high while they were cooling off, but it’s an interesting exercise although I’m reasonably certain that there’s no way to arrange those nine guys in such a way as to strike terror into an opponent unless Bedard’s pitching well.

    And that’s the key — if the pitching holds and we can be satisfied that they’ve gone from awful clear up to mediocre … but that’s like hoping that there will be hope


  39. JohninOshkosh says:


    I’m going out on a limb. No way will these Mets strike out 11. All in with 40 on the under to get back to even. I wanna get to the point where you comp me a buffet.

  40. JRay3 says:

    @ Playoffs – With as many K’s these bats have had the last few days one would have to think they actually make some contact at some point…give me 30 on the Under!

  41. Milo Hamilton says:

    I’d like to be a fly on the wall for a conversation between former Power coach Chris Siegfried & Jose Tabata.

  42. JHadar says:

    John in OK —

    They say regressing to the mean if the absolute is progressing because the size of the deviation from the mean is getting smaller.

    I had just enough statistics in college to learn that the biggest mistake you can make with stats is to view them as predictors. (The second mistake is to assume that correlated stats are related, especially if the relationship is cause and effect.)

    Experience, not statistics, will tell you that most players go through hot and cold streaks and that things usually even out — but experience will also tell you that not all players even out — sometimes they get better and sometimes they get worse.

    I hope our hitters are among those that even out — except for McCutcheon, I hope he’s at a new plateau. No guarantees. That’s why they play the games.

  43. pattonbb says:

    @Playoffs – Dang these are tough. Put me down for 20 on the under. I see Santana giving up some hits tonight.

  44. Milo Hamilton says:


    “I had just enough statistics in college to learn that the biggest mistake you can make with stats is to view them as predictors.”

    Exactly my argument against sabermetrics.

  45. JHadar says:

    BTW — Barajas is gaining some admiration in a “wait and see” kind of way from me.

  46. Naterosboro says:

    @ Bizrow and others

    Re: “We’re only fans, he could care less what we think. Neal knows best, just ask him…..”

    I wouldn’t want an MLB GM (or any professional sporting GM) listening to fans. I don’t want that GM considering fan reaction when making a move.

    While the “Fan” has more information (faster than we’ve ever had it too) than we’ve ever had, GMs still have access to information that the “Fan” does not.

    The GM has people in place that (are supposed to be) feeding him credible information to help him make the best, most informed decision.

    To much of the “Fan” is knee-jerk reaction to results we see in the short term. Now, would I prefer a different GM for the Pirates. Yes I would, b/c as I’ve stated before, I think NH has just about worn out his usefulness to this organization.

  47. nate83 says:


    20 on the under. Thanks.

  48. JohninOshkosh says:


    Thanks. The only math I used in college was rudimentary algebraic equations to figure out how much beer I could buy given the fluctuations in money available.

  49. Milo Hamilton says:

    In a stunning turn of events, Drew Sutton has been traded back to Atlanta from Tampa for 2 boxes of “Just For Men” and some funny looking glasses. Not really, but would anything surprise you at this point ?

  50. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:


    I’ll take 40 on the under

  51. Milo Hamilton says:

    You know the scariest thing about this Pirates offense ? No injuries. Yet.

  52. NMR says:

    ““I had just enough statistics in college to learn that the biggest mistake you can make with stats is to view them as predictors.”

    Exactly my argument against sabermetrics.”

    I still think you’re doin’ it wrong, Milosovich.

    What exactly are those crooked numbers on the baseball card that people talk about when judging a players performance? Batting average, On base percentage, ERA…all statistics, all used to evaluate, and yes, predict how a player will perform.

    Albert Pujols didn’t sign a $240m contract because he’s pretty. He signed one because he’s hit and is predicted to keep hitting.

    One of these days you’ll quit thinking about sabremetrics like they’re a foreign language that only smart guys like Neal can speak. Until then, just keep listening to me. I’ll keep you honest. :)

  53. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    I have said in the past that I don’t like Pedro batting 4th. There’s a lot more pressure in cleanup than when batting 6th or 7th. He started hitting well and showed his enormous power batting 6th. Should’ve kept him there.

    However, CH really didn’t have much a choice. The other options aren’t there either. Now, batting him 3rd is an idea that JHader threw out there. Question then becomes, do you give Pedro a chance to swing and miss or pop out or put him on in front of Cutch? I think its an obvious answer, it might be good to put him in front of the hot hitting Cutch.

    Keep Barmes in after 2 hits yesterday, might be a sign of coming out of his slump. Nice to see Barajas coming around, but the expectations of him aren’t much higher. If he keeps doing what he’s doing, I’ll take it.

  54. What about the hitting coach? That’s a cheap change, find 1 in the minors and let him have a go. Can’t get worse, can it? ( don’t want to think about that)

  55. NMR says:

    “You know the scariest thing about this Pirates offense ? No injuries. Yet”

    Scary for opposing teams?

    I’m sure they’d be disappointed if they didn’t get to face anyone not named McCutchen.

  56. JHadar says:

    Milo —

    I agree,

    I think the value of Sabrmetrics is that they introduce another way of looking at what’s going on on the field — things like the value of an out, the risk of bunting and so on. They don’t tell you things like the third baseman had to make ESPNs play of the week to nail the runner who would have beat it out anyway if he hadn’t tripped over the chalk line getting out of the batters’ box.

    What used to be the biggest argument for stat dependence was that a player’s reputation was affected by what he did when the spotlight was on. Mazeroski’s home run wouldn’t have been worthwhile if they didn’t have the other runs that tied the game up, but since they did he was the hero. And from a fan’s perspective that will always be true.

    But in this day and age, players, coaches, managers and have access to video and computer editing that can look at every play a major leaguer makes at a dozen different angles and inspect everything from how long it takes him to get the ball out of his glove, what his reaction time was to an unexpected bounce, to where his attention is focused during the play.

    Not to mention the knowledge of a player’s, physical, mental, and emotional condition that results from seeing him everyday.

    In short, I think the place of stats is in verifying observation and perhaps in identifying things to look for in a player — but if it’s there, you should see it.

  57. NMR says:


    Barajas has the 7th highest OPS for a catcher in the last month. We should be ecstatic if he keeps doing what he’s doing.

  58. Milo Hamilton says:


    I don’t dislike ‘em all. I think there’s some very valuable info in there. When put in the proper hands.

  59. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    So Nate hasn’t been released yet? Disappointment.

    His last AB in the 9th yesterday was far more than disappointing. Even Wehner talked about it. Was he told to take that cookie right down the middle in a 2-0 count?

  60. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:


    Exactly. He’s been very productive as of late. I think the last 9 games he’s had all 4 HR’s. (I could be wrong on the game totals)

    I don’t expect him to keep doing what he’s doing, but I hope that he maintains.

    I saw a stat last night that between Barajas and The Fort their total number of HR’s (7) is in the top of the stats for catchers. I might’ve missed a few important stats on that, but that’s the gist that I get out of it.

  61. RobertoForever says:


    Santana seems to strike out fewer guys on the road. But you picked a pretty good number for the o/u, as usual.

    I’ll take 15 on the under. Going for a winning streak.

  62. AJS says:

    @NMR Continuing from prior thread…

    Do you think Morton projects to be in the rotation in 2 years? Correia? I’ll give you McDonald. I’ll also give you Karstens if he comes back as strong as he was when he left. Shoulder issues worry me. Especially when it comes to longevity.

    My worry with Morton is that he pitched well for half a season to date. And other than that he hasn’t shown anything that makes me think he should still be itching for the Buccos in 2 seasons, especially if Taillon and Cole show that they are ready.

    perhaps you can hang on to Taillon and Cole and trade karstens for a bat when those two arrive. God help us if we have to wait that long for help at the dish.

  63. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:


    In 2 years. Corriea out, AJ out, Bedard out.

    Yes, Morton and JMac. Fill in the blank after that. I would think Cole would/should be in the rotation.

  64. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    Maybe CM could be used in the next year or so as trade bait. There’s enough pitching in the system to allow that.

  65. NMR says:


    Fair enough. Correia being in a contract year obviously didn’t make my cut, but to answer your question, yes, I could see Morton, McDonald, and Karstens in the rotation at the start of the 2014 season. Morton finished the year with a 3.8 ERA. Hardly half a season.

    I also could see none of them.

    This time last year, Charlie was the new stud and McDonald was “just another bad trade”. They both have shown that they have the stuff, which you can’t teach. They both need to improve their consistancy, which can come with maturity. Here’s to hoping that happens.

  66. Playoffs by 2012 says:

    John (UNDER for 40), Jray (UNDER for 30), patonbb (UNDER for 20), Nate (UNDER for 20), Ryan (UNDER for 40) and Roberto (UNDER for 15) you got it. Good Luck!!

  67. bob hasis says:

    I don’t think a person can be so unlucky to make the wrong decision all of the time. But even NH proved me wrong

  68. Milo Hamilton says:

    You know, I don’t think I ever remember Leo Durocher citing “regression to the mean”. But I could be wrong.

  69. Bizrow says:


    20 on the under, if I bet the over, I will be accused of not being a PBC fan ;-)

    This fan stuff is KILLING ME…..

    20 in the hole ;-)

  70. JMB says:

    The Trumbo market is adding teams daily, so I doubt we will be the ones getting him unless NH is ultra aggressive.

    ESPN MLB trade rumors says the Cards will look at Trumbo as a Berkman replacement.

    DK: Having a hard time envisioning Huntington and this front office being more aggressive than the Cardinals. But the mere fact that Trumbo’s name comes up so often … man, that sure blows a hole in the Pirates’ claim that there are NO HITTERS OUT THERE, doesn’t it? Or that IT’S MAY!

  71. JRay3 says:

    Just read a report that Cardinals Lance Berkman diagnosed with an ACL tear…certainly do not like to see anyone get hurt but it does certainly make the NL Central that much more of a wide open race.

  72. Playoffs by 2012 says:

    Bizrow, the window never accuses anyone of anything. The window is a safe place. That being said, you got it and good luck!!

  73. Milo Hamilton says:


    Give Neal a break. He made 2 trades last night alone. He’s prolly tired. Needs a nappy.

  74. JRay3 says:

    I will say this if somehow the Cardinals were to move on a hitter before we do, I can only imagine the commentary I will be entertained with here within.

  75. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:


    No chance that Trumbo is a Pirate………ever.


    You’re right. Unless NH is trying to not show his hand. Trumbo’s asking price has to be skyrocketing. No way he can contend with the Cards. They don’t value their prospects as much as the PBC because 1. They have the money to spend on actual FA’s (see Berkman and Beltran 2. They sell out EVERY night, not just firework night 3. They don’t need the high end prospects and can afford to give them up.

    Basically, STL is in contention every single year.

  76. Playoffs by 2012 says:


    Trumbo is batting .348 with 6 HR and 18 RBI on a team with a worse record than the Pirates. Plus he has 8 less at bats this year than Pedro Alvarez. I find it hard to believe that the Pirates don’t have anything at all to offer the Angels to bring him here. I mean don’t they need any guys with downward planes and projectable stuff with a real good xFIP? Or is that only us?

  77. Milo Hamilton says:


    I’m going 25 on the over. Thank you.

  78. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:


    Believe it or not NH and the PBC are not the only people that talk about downward planes.

  79. @PLayoffs, I’m going to go with 50 on the under. I think they will get close, but will be somewhat better than the weekend. I hope. Let’s Go Bucs!

  80. Playoffs by 2012 says:


    I know, but the only downward plane NH seems to be good at projecting is the one in the standings.

  81. Bizrow says:

    The Cards roll the dice, according to the plan, Neal won’t give up real assets till his contract is close to being over

    Good point Dejan, the whole thing is interesting and also sad to see play out.

    Its just not the time for Neal to roll the dice, last year surprised them

  82. Playoffs by 2012 says:

    Milo (OVER for 25) and Steve (UNDER for 50) you got it. Good Luck!!

  83. JohninOshkosh says:


    I think that is why there is so much apprehension/frustration right now. THIS CENTRAL FLAG CAN BE WON THIS YEAR!!

  84. Playoffs by 2012 says:

    I’m reminded of what my old hockey coach would yell at us……”TRY HARDER!!!”

  85. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    Is it just me or is what NH saying that there are very very few trades made in May, but he traded Nate the Great in May for 3 dudes that are currently on the roster….

  86. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:



    Nice dig, I like.

  87. pattonbb says:

    Can’t imagine the Cards will make a play for Trumbo. Angels have to be asking the farm for him. Plus the Cards like Matt Adams at 1B.

  88. Playoffs by 2012 says:


    Then that should make our (theoretical) offer even better. If only teams made trades before July 31st…….

  89. JMB says:

    Did anyone see the attendance numbers?

    On one hand, being up 90k over 2011 is huge. On the other, Mil & StL have almost doubled us to date, and the Cubs have doubled us. The teams in our division will always have more money, so our FO has to be TB Ray’s level genius to win.

  90. Playoffs by 2012 says:

    By the way, new record set for the window tonight with 9 participants for tonight’s game. A new single game record!! Neal Huntington may not appreciate you, by the window sure does. Thanks to you all!!!

  91. pattonbb says:

    Re: Trumbo

    He’s having a great year, no doubt. But what do you offer for a guy that hit .254 last year? Heredia? Taillon? Is 100 ab’s an adequate sample to know what you really have there?

    Personally, I’d love to see Trumbo. And yes, I say deal one of those arms, heck, maybe even two of them if you have to. Who cares? Chances are they both won’t pan out anyway.

  92. JohninOshkosh says:

    What about LaHair from the Cubs. They have Rizzo in the waiting. LaHair is so far having a solid year and is likely more attainable than Trumbo.

  93. Bizrow says:

    Cubs would want too much for LaHair

    Opie was aggressive this off season signing Bedard, Barabbas and Barmes, then he sat back like the butchers dog, patting himself on the back.

    Crossed his finger and hoped that Presley was the real thing, Nate and Casey would bounce back.

    I think many could see this hitting coming

  94. JAL says:


    Nate was traded June 3, not May 3

  95. Bizrow says:

    A bat?? Traded in June?

    Neal’s nose is growing by the minute too.

    Sorry, but no one needs typos corrected outside of college

  96. Bizrow says:

    33 pitches, second inning, call to the bullpen coming

  97. Milo Hamilton says:

    A shortstop hit a ball that far the other way ? What’s his story ?

  98. pattonbb says:

    Why do I get the feeling we’ll be reading about one of those mysterious oblique strains after this game?

  99. JAL says:

    typo? A typo is when someone hits the wrong key or transposes letters. Tyop is a typo. May and June are two different months.

  100. Milo Hamilton says:

    It could still rain.

  101. JAL says:


    Rain might be the only help

  102. Milo Hamilton says:

    Root Sports is paying tribute to Little League Baseball in an upcoming telecast. They’re going to show the Pirate game.

  103. LuckyNKentucky says:

    On the bright side, seven guys have batted and only 3 K’s so far.

  104. bob hasis says:

    Touche’ Milo.

    I’m beginning to truly feel sad for Barmes and his hapless hopelessness at the plate.

    I think Hurdle and NH should feel the same – starting in the fifth inning.

  105. Reading says:

    Got to love the seizure-inducing commercials this year.

  106. LuckyNKentucky says:


    The two top hitters at Indy, average-wise are Clement and Mercer. I understand the Clement saga, but does management have no regard for Mercer at all?

  107. Bizrow says:

    Yup, a typo, ever think one thing and say another

    We don’t always need corrected, mom

    Lighten up, for once

    Not looking good for the good guys

  108. Bizrow says:

    70 pitches for Bedard in the 3rd

    Of course if I’m wrong, mom will correct

    Me, anyways

    Tonight might not be pretty PBC wise

  109. Officer Mancuso says:

    As one who loved the gamble picking up Bedard I’m reminded that I believe he’s the all time leader in $ received per IP. A sort of baseball de Gaulle.

  110. JohninOshkosh says:

    Watching the Mets feed on my cable package. Boy, are their announcers (Cohen and Darling) getting on the Pirates.

  111. LuckyNKentucky says:

    In what way, John?

  112. RobertoForever says:

    Still waiting for Correia to go on the DL.

  113. bob hasis says:

    I believe mid-July 2011 has arrived on May 20/21, 2012.

    When the auto industry comes out with a new year model, they re-tool. They don’t tinker, they re-tool the entire line.

    Is last year’s SS reject a robust 2-2 already? I missed his second AB.

  114. LuckyNKentucky says:


    0-1 with a K.

  115. LuckyNKentucky says:


    Sorry, you meant Ronnie. My bad.

  116. RobertoForever says:

    Yeah, what do the Mets announcers have to talk about? Most money spent with nothing to show for it? Their owners helped fleece money with Bernie Madoff

  117. Playoffs by 2012 says:

    This game has a very projectable downward plane……..

  118. JohninOshkosh says:


    They have ripped Tabata for not charging to get to base hits. Noted that Alvarez has been out of position a few times. Noted that it appeared Bedard did not know signals. Talked about how the Pirates have nothing in their system positionally to go to except Marte. They hate Bedard’s pace. Darling said that the outfielders should be issued Kindles for in between pitches. Of course, love the ballpark and city.

    Remember I am but your humble messenger.

  119. bob hasis says:

    Hurdle should be fired for that stupid rally-killing bunt

  120. RobertoForever says:

    Oops, looks like an upward plane now.

  121. pattonbb says:

    Really would be nice to see Barmes get a hit here..

  122. Milo Hamilton says:

    They have to be thinking pinch hitter for Bedard. How many more innings is he going to give you. One ? Maybe.

  123. Milo Hamilton says:


  124. RobertoForever says:


    Appreciate the info. But this is the team that brought in Cedeno to replace Reyes, right? Lol – quite the minor league to draw from themselves, huh. I think when i looked at their triple-a roster, it was filled with 15 or 16 guys over 27. Not too many prospects. Quad-a guys mostly washouts from other systems

  125. Playoffs by 2012 says:

    Can someone get me projected the BABIP for the rest of the game, also the xFIP as well. Thanks.

  126. bob hasis says:

    Three doubles in a row, Santana on the ropes, good contact hitter Walker up and he bunts.

    Three possible options prevail, Hurdle went in to a trance, Walker bunted on his own for a base hit, or Leyva screwed up the sign and signaled bunt. ! or 3 are my choices.

  127. Milo Hamilton says:


    Walker bunted on his own. The announcers know he signs. Walk said he did it on his own. I’ll go with that.

  128. RobertoForever says:

    Way to battle back, Erik.

    Put up three good innings after seemingly going off the rails.

  129. bob hasis says:

    I accept

  130. Milo Hamilton says:

    Kinda the way Mrs. Lincoln rallied after the play.

  131. JohninOshkosh says:


    I certainly won’t defend the Mets and their announcers didn’t seem mean spirited at all. Have to watch a lot of opposing team feeds and usually announcers are indifferent or complimentary of PBC.

  132. JAL says:


    No idea what they think of Mercer. They put him on the 40 so must think he can play.

  133. Eric Bowser says:

    Pirates lineup would be so much better if it had a leadoff hitter with at least a .350 OBP, than the .273 from Jose Tabata. It would be better, if it didn’t have a cleanup hitter behind McCutchen who has struck out 41% of his at-bats like Alvarez.

  134. Milo Hamilton says:

    Casey McGehee makes Matt Diaz look like Bob Robertson.

  135. Milo Hamilton says:

    The 1962 Mets hit .240. Buccos currently hitting .217. The Mets went 40-120 that season. Amazin’.

  136. bob hasis says:

    When McGehee first appeared on the scene with Milw. he was terrific. Then suddenly he just became ordinary, then we got him. What happened? Can’t hit a curve or what? I know Milw unloaded him in a hurry. Did he have an injury that limits him?

    I know he is half the man of his former self

  137. JMB says:

    @Milo The sad thing is during the first week of the season I thought CMcGehee might actually finally be a good FA signing, but he has fallen off the cliff.

    @EB Bourn would have looked good at leadoff for us.

    I will say that this team is in every game, so while I gripe quite often, I am actually enjoying the season overall due to the competitiveness of the games.

    I just feel that we are “this” close to being in the hunt this year, so if we had acq’d Pence or Bourn last year, we would be right there.

    The Pirates are never going to be a league power, and we need to pick our spots/shots. This is a year for a shot for Pujols & Fielder gone, and Theo Epstein’s Cubs rebuilding. By 2014, the Cubs might be reloaded. Give this fanbase a year long pennant race.

  138. LuckyNKentucky says:


    You’re correct, sir. McGehee and Diaz have hit as many homers combined as Gorkys Hernandez has in a Pirate uniform. Relative to a smiley face I think.

  139. LuckyNKentucky says:

    Looked like a good job by Watson, at least on Gameday.

  140. The Fort does it to tie the game!!!

  141. Eric Bowser says:

    Maybe they should put Fort McKenry at 1B, lol

  142. RobertoForever says:

    That terrible Barmes gets on for the second straight at-bat and the weak -hitting Pirates lineup ties the game at 4.

  143. Milo Hamilton says:

    Certainly getting power from the catching position.

  144. JHadar says:

    Hey, tied up and we’re 18-9 when we get two or more runs!

  145. Eric Bowser says:

    These hitters are great, I mean, why would anyone not call Barmes terrible or this lineup weak.

  146. Milo Hamilton says:

    Collins uses his only reliable reliever to get one out in the 7th inning. OK.

  147. JRay3 says:

    Nice comeback from down four…have to say this our catchers may not hit much but when they do they seem to big hits.

  148. Milo Hamilton says:

    Cedeno trying to bunt. That’s entertainment.

  149. JohninOshkosh says:

    Jared Hughes is one dude I would think that one would want to have with you if trouble were to arise. Menacing looking figure on that mound.

  150. JRay3 says:

    Flash the leather Pedro, great play to get one.

  151. Milo Hamilton says:

    The Ronny Cedeno 1st base slide returns. Still waiting for the 1st time he’s safe doing that.

  152. JRay3 says:

    And an absolute huge K for Hughes in that situation, just what was needed time to finish this off!

  153. pattonbb says:

    Jared Hughes…wow….

  154. JRay3 says:

    Great Escape Jared Hughes….@ John – I have always thought that about his look as well, just fierce.

  155. Milo Hamilton says:

    Amazin’ !

  156. JMB says:


  157. JRay3 says:

    Wow now the baseball gods are smiling down on us here….big break now let’s bring Walker in.

  158. JMB says:


    What did the Met’s announcers have to say about that one?

  159. JMB says:

    The not so might Casey at the bat. he can’t even do a sac fly?!

  160. JohninOshkosh says:


  161. JMB says:

    That’s how it’s done. Barmes having a nice night.

  162. JRay3 says:

    Whew that was close but way to get the ball in the air Barmes!

  163. Milo Hamilton says:

    Cue the Barmes love.

  164. JRay3 says:

    A chance to steal one. Time to bring in the Hammer!

  165. JohninOshkosh says:


    Sorry I was putting one of my kids to sleep and missed all the fun. Wish I would have heard em, though. My wife turned the channel so it wasn’t still in the DVR cache.

  166. JMB says:

    No worries.

    Prolly something about how a team with a -30+ run diff cant give away runs or something.

  167. RobertoForever says:

    Yeah, God forbid, a player get credit for when he has a good night, because we know he will be crucified for a bad night. LOL

  168. JRay3 says:

    And Barmes shows some range that Cedeno would have been probably asleep on.

  169. Milo Hamilton says:

    We had ‘em all the way.

  170. JMB says:

    What a great comeback!

  171. Milo Hamilton says:

    Like clockwork.

  172. Game over, and Raise the Jolly Roger!!! Thanks to the Mets for giving us the 5th run. Nice to see Hughes get the win after that tough top of the 8th. Get game two tomorrow!!

  173. bob hasis says:

    I knew that was gonna happen. We had em all the way

  174. JAL says:

    Nice to comeback from being down 4 early

  175. JRay3 says:

    And the Hammer comes in with a 1-2-3 9th for his 10th save of the year and coming back from a four run deficit the Buccos take game one of the set 5-4 and there was noooooooo doubt about it! Great win maybe a momentum type win that gets the team on a little run!

  176. Under wins, barely!

  177. pattonbb says:

    Fear the Bones….

  178. RobertoForever says:

    And the Pirates raise their home record to 11-8.

    Great to raise the value of the season tix i cant go to. ;)

  179. Milo Hamilton says:

    Mike Rupp just lost his mind.

  180. Milo Hamilton says:

    Tortorella’s post game should be warm & fuzzy tonight.

  181. twentytwo22 says:

    Given the circumstances, I nominate this one the best win of the season.
    Day after a semi-blown game
    Would have been the second straight loss of game one of a nine game homestand and fighting uphill just to go 5-4.
    Down 4-0 in the game/ Losing after 6 innings

    Now seize the opportunity to take advantage of an unexpected win.

  182. JRay3 says:

    @ twenty-two – was thinking the same thing, and also to get Bedard off the hook by battling back can not go unnoticed by the pitchers who have battled all year…I just believe mentally this has to be a big win.

  183. JRay3 says:

    and in the more good news department the Padres just plate 2 on a two out two run double to lead the Cardinals 3-2….may be in line to gain another half game since Reds downed Atlanta.

  184. JohninOshkosh says:

    Win at home and tread water on the road. Recipe for the Central Division Title.

  185. twentytwo22 says:

    20-9 now when scoring 2 runs. All of their wins. #HeapOneOn

  186. JohninOshkosh says:

    I think the Pirates are going to sweep the Mets. Like JMB pointed out, their run differential is not good and should not support the record they have. They have not been playing well as of late. This was a good comeback victory that hopefully will lead to good mo.

    Night all

  187. RobertoForever says:

    Pirates now 8-5 against LHP as well as playing .500 in may.

    Cards on the other hand are playing losing ball in may with a 9-11 record. Cards 3-7 in 1 run games.

  188. Playoffs by 2012 says:

    10 K’s was just enough for the UNDER to squeak out a victory. Congrats to the Bucs for fighting back and taking this one. Thank you to all who played. See you tomorrow night!!

    Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) +160
    Nate83 +80
    Steve J Smith +80
    RobertoForever +70
    JaxBuc +70
    JRay3 +30
    Officer Mancuso +20
    jeffsbar +20
    cosmo +20
    Bizrow EVEN
    Milo Hamilton EVEN
    JohninOshkosh EVEN
    pattonbb -20

  189. ORLANDO says:

    Buy Viagra

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