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Pittsburgh sports talk with the Trib columnist

Final: Brewers 10, Pirates 7

By Dejan Kovacevic | Trib Total Media

Looking ahead to first pitch …

Game: Pirates (48-37) vs. Milwaukee Brewers (40-45)

Time: 8:10 p.m.

Site: House of Horrors

TV, radio: Root Sports, 93.7 The Fan

Here is the live box score.

And here is the Pirates’ lineup vs. Milwaukee RHP Zack Greinke

  1. Drew Sutton, LF
  2. Neil Walker, 2B
  3. Andrew McCutchen, CF
  4. Garrett Jones, RF
  5. Casey McGehee, 1B
  6. Pedro Alvarez, 3B
  7. Rod Barajas, C
  8. Clint Barmes, SS
  9. James McDonald, RHP

UPDATE 5:10 p.m.: Mark Appel did not sign with the Pirates.

Now that it’s over, I’ll share with you that the only way Scott Boras was going to agree is if the team had gone above and beyond and paid those penalties — next year’s first-rounder, cash, etc. — to get his client somewhere in the range of $6 million. As you can see, the Pirates didn’t do that.

Boras’ thought process is that, as he told me, “Talent will always find a way,” so he sees more options for Appel than some of us do. We’ll see.


  1. Drew71 says:

    Oh. Right. Game.

  2. Playoffs by 2012 says:

    Dear Lord it is good to be back. The Window missed baseball, but now it’s the second half, and the Bucs are ready to make their run. Also, it’s THREE PLAY FRIDAY!! Let’s open the window!!

    Tonight’s TRIPLE OVER / UNDER (always for fun of course)

    Please specify which line you wish to (fake) wager on.

    Line #1
    Total Strikeouts by Pirates Batters in Tonight’s Game
    Line is 9.5

    Line #2
    Total Combined Innings Pitched by Pirates Starters This Weekend at Milwaukee
    Line is 18.5

    Line #3
    Total Pirates Wins This Weekend Against Milwaukee
    Line is 1.5


    54 Current Participants!!
    If you haven’t played yet, what are you waiting for??!!??
    Anyone can play!! Everyone should TRY!!
    What’ll ya have!! What’ll ya have!!

    Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) ** 1400
    Mlrgenuine ** 1400
    pattonbb ** 1300
    Nate83 ** 1140
    Chico ** 955
    dcpinpgh ** 950
    radio wave ** 947
    JRay3 ** 900
    Steve J Smith ** 750
    DemonDachshund ** 610
    jeffsbar ** 600
    Evan ** 578
    crkkid ** 575
    RobertoForever ** 525
    cosmo ** 500
    manny_sanguine ** 450
    JMB ** 450
    Naje ** 450
    Bizrow ** 420
    milo66 ** 400
    dcpfjr ** 350
    JD ** 350
    cmat0829 ** 350
    MarkV ** 325
    likeabugonarug ** 307
    tmp444 ** 280
    JaxBuc ** 260
    JohninOshkosh ** 250
    Slack Boss ** 235
    stuart66 ** 200
    Officer Mancuso ** 180
    OZ ** 150
    lawnbeaver ** 150
    lckythump ** 100
    Absolute59 ** 100
    Kevin S ** 100
    Mike C. ** 100
    Sir Lochsby ** 50
    JUCOfan ** 25
    Hal Smith ** EVEN
    NMR ** EVEN
    Dan1283 ** EVEN
    Drew 71 ** EVEN
    bman ** -40
    Milo Hamilton ** -75
    Boise Bucco ** -100
    buggee ** -100
    Petro Steel ** -100
    Pants-n-at ** -100
    Arriba Wilver ** -135
    Kevin ** -250
    GlassHalfFull ** -305
    bob hasis ** -375
    TDB1977 ** -940

    First Place at the end of the season will win:

    Second Place at the end of the season will win:

    Third Place at the end of the season will win:
    (1) 2012 Topps Roberto Clemente Card

  3. Bizrow says:

    Its been a long 4 days

  4. Bizrow says:

    100 on UNDAH for line 1

    100 on OVAH for lines 2 and 3

    Thanks, playoffs

  5. TDB1977 says:

    Playoffs –

    I’m going to take 100 on the under for all three lines.


    And yes, its been a long long 4 days.

  6. TK says:

    50 on the over for all three lines, please.

  7. Playoffs by 2012 says:

    It’s 5PM. Do you know where your 1st Rounder is??

  8. Milo Hamilton says:

    Appel did not sign.

  9. Finally!!! Let’s play ball!!!

    @Playoffs, Here are my guesses for the weekend:
    #1 UNDER for 50
    #2 OVER for 50
    #3 OVER for 50

    Thanks. Let’s Go Bucs!!

  10. Playoffs by 2012 says:

    So much for Boras’ clients always sign…….

    Seems crazy to walk away from a guaranteed $3+ million. Must be nice. Enjoy another year at school NOT earning any money. I’m moving on.

  11. Boise Bucco says:

    Well, good luck to Appel next year. Hope he has an amazing season and he gets the bonus he was looking for.

  12. Chico says:

    Finally, we’re back!


    Line 1: 50 on the under
    Line 2: 100 on the over
    Line 3: 75 on the over


    Let’s go Bucs!

  13. Milo Hamilton says:

    I hope his arm falls off. Not to be critical.

  14. jeffsbar says:


    Line 1 – 100 Under
    Line 2 – 100 Over
    Line 3 – 100 Over

    Thank you.

  15. radio wave says:

    at playoffs:
    Back to swinging for the fences.
    I’ll take 75 on the under for line 1
    I’ll take 75 for the over on both lines 2 and 3.

    Were the Pirates smart/correct in not signing their #1 choice?
    I wonder how much MLB pressure there was to toe the financial line with Boras?

  16. Playoffs by 2012 says:

    Turns out every other 1st round pick will sign except for Appel.


    Hope the Bucs take that $3+ million earmarked for Appel and get a good bat for the pennant race.

  17. Curt says:

    Watching Intentional Talk with Kevin Millar and Chris Rose on MLB Network.
    They just covered the Justin Upton trade speculation. Both admit the D-Backs will regret it and both think the organization has put too much pressure on him and that has splintered their relationship. Other than that, both think he is worth trading for.
    Anyway seems like an interesting take. I’d like to trade for him!

    And for Appel, is it wrong to hope he struggles next year and ruins his draft stock so he loses out on more money?!?

    Let’s Go Bucs!

  18. Playoffs by 2012 says:

    Pirates GM Neal Huntington explained in a statement that the team offered as much as it could without losing future picks.

    “Our final offer exceeded the available bonus pool money and was essentially up to the last dollar we could offer prior to falling into the second tier penalty which would have resulted in the loss of a first round draft selection,” Huntington said. “While, as we have shown in past years, we are willing to be aggressive with our financial offer, we simply did not feel it was in the best interest of the organization to forfeit our first round selection in the 2013 amateur draft.”

  19. Boise Bucco says:

    @Playoffs, that’s what I was thinking too; that’s $3 million extra for the MLB roster. Or, I wonder if they were able to get that Walker Buehler guy signed. I don’t know anything about him, but his name has been thrown around a lot as a tough-to-sign guy.

  20. Reading says:

    Wondering how the Pirates can sign two first round picks next year. Maybe pull a Minnesota Vikings and fail to timely phone in when time for second pick? Does this year’s slot carryover?

  21. Drew71 says:

    Somewhere out there Bud Selig is laughing in his grave.

    No. I’m not saying he is or should be dead.

    Think undead.

    Blood sucker.

  22. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    Back at it!!

    Line 1: 100 OVER

    Line 2: 100 OVER

    Line 3: 100 UNDER

  23. Playoffs by 2012 says:

    It really makes you wonder why with the new rules in place any prep or college player would take Boras as an adviser. His posturing cost this kid millions of dollars guaranteed this year. First by making him seem o be un-signable, thus making him fall to #8. Then by advising him not to sign as the #8, and to risk everything to have even less clout next year. In my opinion Appel isn’t all that smart. But, only time will tell.

  24. Boise Bucco says:


    Each slot has it’s own recommendations, so if the Bucs were to get the 9th and, we’ll say, 19th picks next year, each pick would have it’s own value attached to it. So they could feasibly overpay for one selection, and not sign the second one and carry it over to the 2014 draft if they wanted to. At least, that’s how I understand it.

    Here’s a breakdown of what each slot is worth, percentage-wise:

  25. Milo Hamilton says:


    The Pirates will easily sign both 1st round picks next year. The key word being signability.

  26. Drew71 says:

    Red Sox are hosting a party for Bud tonight. Lots of party games. Pin The Tail On The Pirates and such.

  27. DemonDachshund says:

    @Reading –

    Their draft pool is determined based on what the sum of the first 10 rounds worth of slots is. So yes, they’ll be allotted an extra chunk of money to sign that extra pick. (#9?)

  28. Milo Hamilton says:

    Alex Presley will begin a rehab assignment in Indy tomorrow. Hopes to be back on Tuesday in Denver.

  29. Boise Bucco says:

    Now that I think about it, maybe that’s the loophole that Boras was looking for…

    If a team doesn’t sign this year, then next year they will have 2 draft picks. Using the same values from this year, if the Bucs had the 9th and 19th picks, they would have had $4.7M in their first-round draft pool. Now, please tell me if I’m wrong, but if a Mark Appel-type fell to the Bucs at 9, and they picked someone at 19 that they had no desire in signing, they could then offer their 9th pick the combined pool of both slots.

    Would that be legit?

    On the flip-side, they can always have their choice between an easy-to-sign guy and a hard-to-sign guy, and if they sign both–great. Otherwise, pull a New England Patriots and just have 2 first-rounders every year.

  30. I think it would be hilarious if the Bucs were to sign a very good player at # 9 next year, and all of the sudden Appel comes up as still not being taken by the time their second pick in the first round comes up, then just to spite him they pick him anyway. Then if he doesn’t sign its hello Tokyo!

  31. Playoffs by 2012 says:

    This whole MLB Draft is still a mockery. I say, make it like the NFL, if you declare and sign an agent, that’s it, you can’t go back to school. Cuts down on all the crap you have to put up with from the players. Make a choice and stick by it. Easy as that.

  32. Boise Bucco says:

    Read Neyer’s column, and he says that next year’s draft isn’t as deep as this year’s was…isn’t that the opposite of just about everybody else’s opinion?

  33. JMB says:

    As I posted this morning, if the Pirates get a lesser player than Shaffer at 9 in 2013, then we should have just drafted a signable guy this year.

    Heck, seven other teams passed on Appel, so while I know the FO would have gotten flack from some quarters for passing, the signable pick looks much better today.

    Time will tell.

  34. Reading says:

    Thanks everybody for the info. Hopr that we are not back to the Wieters-avoidance days.

  35. Mlrgenuine says:

    @Playoffs – Woohooo! Tied for first at the break.

    Line #1 – 100 Under
    Line #2 – 100 Over
    Line #3 – 100 Over

    Lets Go Bucs!

  36. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    Mark Appel should not be able to go back to college since he was “advised” by Boras.

    NCAA should investigate whether or not Boras contributed any finacial contributions to Appel.

    This is what’s messed up with the NCAA. In basketball or football, can a player declare for the draft and then decide they want to go back to school? Don’t think so, this kind of crap shouldn’t be allowed.

    I wish Mark the best, but its a system problem, not a Mark Appel problem.

  37. Boise Bucco says:

    @Ryan and Playoffs–that’s a fact. How is that not an NCAA violation? It can’t be that Appel isn’t paying Boras yet–that’s probably true, but I doubt most of these college football players pay their agents either. How is that not the same? I really hate college sports…

  38. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:


    My first thought was, no way the Pirates should overpay for this guy and give up a 1st round pick for next season.

    But, isn’t that essentially what they did this year? Threw a way a #1 draft pick? With things going the way it is on the season, next year’s pick will be at the higher end, cheaper pick, less the sure thing.

    Oh well. I’m glad the FO stuck to their guns on this one. Though it was a risky pick to begin with, I like the aggresiveness of the pick and the backbone to stand up to Boras.

  39. Jay G -Jacksonville FL via New Castle says:

    I don’t wish him the best….It’s greed….and stupidity…..A risk not worth taking..

  40. Kevin S says:

    #1 100 under… #2 100 over… #3 100 over

  41. Kevin says:

    Ahhhh…back to baseball!!

    Mr. Playoffs –

    Line 1: 100 on the UNDER
    Line 2: 100 on the OVER

    Thank you.

  42. JMB says:


    I have seen both opinions on next year.

    “next year’s draft looks kind of weak”

    I think Callis & Law have both implied the same, but DK just said next year is deep. So I have no idea.

  43. Denny says:

    @ Ryan (Nor Cal)

    They didn’t really “throw away” their first pick this year because it will be given back to them next year in the same slot. Plus they’ll have their conventional pick.

  44. JMB says:

    The only thing we really lose is the year of development.

  45. LuckyNKentucky says:

    Now we can add this to DK’s list:

    1. This team will hit (2 years ago)
    2. The Steelers will beat the Ravens (almost 1 year ago)
    3. The Pens will win the cup (a few months ago)
    4. Appel will sign

    Glad I’m always right. I said shun A.J. and put Brad Lincoln in the rotation.

    Hope you enjoy your vacation. There are more smart alecks like me on the blog every day!

  46. albatross says:

    “And for Appel, is it wrong to hope he struggles next year and ruins his draft stock so he loses out on more money?!?”

    Yes, it is. But I’m doing it anyway.

  47. tmp444 says:

    Yes! Window’s open!

    Playoffs – 75 on the OVER for all 3 lines.

    Buccos win a close, low scoring affair tonight! Fear the Z! Fear the Bones! Let’s go Bucs!

  48. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:


    That’s true. didn’t think about that.

  49. Kevin says:

    So the Pirates lose on the 2.9 million slotted?? Why was there no kicking and screaming by the Pirates and other “similarly situated” teams when this CBA was ratified?

    I understand the rationale behind “use it or lose it”, but C’MON!??!

  50. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    OK, moving on. Just read the piece by Tom Singer from talking about the Pirates would be interested in OF and a middle infielder at the deadline.

    Thoughts on Marco Scuturo? I’ve never been a big fan, but he’s a solid guy it seems. Nothing flashy, but consistant.

    Final year of his contract as well with the Rockies. We know they’re selling.

  51. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    It looks like the Phillies and Brewers are prepared to extend Cole Hamels and Zack Greinke.

    Might be just chatter to up their value.

  52. Evan says:

    I’ll take 100 on the over for lines 2 and 3.

  53. DemonDachshund says:

    Look at it this way…

    Option A was overpay Appel enough to sign him. In this case, they get Appel and have to pay roughly $6M to get him.

    Option B was to offer max money without penalties and not sign him. Now they have the #9-ish pick, a mid to late first rounder in 2013, whatever 1st round pick they’ll get in 2014 (DK says $6M+, meaning they’d be over 15% over pool and lose _TWO_ first round picks), and keep their spot in the Competitive Balance Lottery. (meaning a 12/13 chance at getting ANOTHER bonus pick right after the 1st or 2nd round in 2013)

    Given those options, B is the easy winner. Really ends up being a loss for everyone involved though.

  54. JMB says:

    It’s weaker than this year. Less college pitching, weaker HS crop all around. — how deep will next years draft be?

  55. Pig Legs Robinson says:

    No way on Scutaro. Not a bad player, but I don’t see him fitting in with the lineup or being much help with the stick.
    I would go all out for Victorino first, and if the Phils want too much, see if the Astros might move Jed Lowrie for a fair deal.

    Victorino has everything they need. Can leadoff, or can protect McCutchen in the lineup if needed. He has doubles power, leads the league in triples last couple years, runs the bases wisely, can steal 30 bases, is a 3-time gold glover with excellent defensive instincts, and hits over .270 yearly. He’ll often flirt in the .300 range during the year and hits enough homeruns to be very dangerous. He has been to the post season and done well. Knows how to play in a pennant race and doesn’t make the mistakes that young players make.
    In essence, he’s the Anti-Tabata.

  56. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:


    I’ve been calling for Victorino even before he was rumored to be traded. He is having a down year, but I would slap him in LF and in the lead off spot.

  57. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    Scuturo is a career .270ish hitter, currently at .277. He plays both 2B/SS so he can give Neil a break as well. He would be a good addition to the bench, possibly take over SS if Barmes can’t get it together.

  58. Drew71 says:

    Bud Selig just called.

    Boy is HE mad at me.

    Flesh eating zombies just HATE to be called bloodsucking vampires.

    HATE it.

  59. JoeBucco says:

    House of Horrors was so 2011, DK.

    2-1 in the Beermakers house this year. We own that place.

    And a hot Casey McGehee is starting. And will be going yard tonight.

    Just sayin…

    And thanks goodness Appel didn’t sign. I’m actually glad he didn’t. Sets us up nicely in next year’s draft. And it showed Boras that he doesn’t get to make the rules. He’s just dumb and stubborn enough to be the only one not to get that.

  60. OZ says:

    I’ll take a 100 on the under for line 1….thx window.

  61. JoeBucco says:

    @Demo… it’s not #9ish. It’s #9.

    No other team was unable to sign their first round pick. Gues the new system was just fine for, ohhhh… pretty much everyone else.

    $100 says Mark Appel doesn’t get anywhere near $3.9m next year.

  62. JoeBucco says:

    I’ll play too…

    If I’m doing this right,

    100 under line 1
    100 over, lines 2 and 3

  63. Markv says:


    I’ll take 50 on each line
    Line 1 Under
    Line 2 Under
    Line 3 Over

    Thanks. Beat ‘em Bucs!

  64. bman says:


    Line 1: I’ll take 100 on the UNDER
    Line 2: I’ll take 50 on the UNDER

  65. bob hasis says:


    I would like 50 units each on Lines 1 & 2 on the OVER

    Thank you

  66. MadTurk says:

    Breaking News:
    Appel reveals Boras told him to chuck the offer from the Pirates and go play football next year.

  67. Milo Hamilton says:


    I understand Mississippi State made him a substantial offer.

  68. RobertoForever says:


    What I really missed these last 4 days is your lines. It really got me thru that ugly coverage by the mother ship. Love the three play on this scaaaaary Friday the 13th. Boo!

    For the lines, everyone’s rested up and ready to continue the dominance.

    Line 1 – 100 under
    Line 2 – 75 over
    Line 3 – 25 over! Time to BURY this beer barrel ballpark

    Seriously, though. Thank you for all the consistent hard work. You rock!

  69. dcpinpgh says:

    hey playoffs

    1) did you ever hear back from that job interview?

    2) how about a line for how much Appel signs for next year.

  70. MadTurk says:

    @ Milo Hamilton

    Is he going to work with teh new bee keeper there?

  71. DemonDachshund says:

    @Playoffs –

    3 x 100 on the OVER

    Thanks as always.

  72. Eric Bowser says:

    I don’t buy this bad/weak draft stuff for 2013, just a little early for that. Pirates did the right thing with Appel in both cases. They drafted the best player available and made him the best offer they could without losing a number one pick in 2013.

    It would be one thing if Appel was a can’t miss prospect like Strasburg or Harper.

    Here’s a glass of Jack Daniels for Mr. Appel because he just flirted with an increased potential to fail during his senior season and to earn less than the $3.8 million the Pirates offered.

  73. Matt says:

    FYI: Marte is starting in LF here at Indy tonight.

  74. twentytwo22 says:

    I’d take a 3-3 road trip to get the second half started but if they beat Greinke look out.

  75. Eric Bowser says:

    I’d like to know what Frank ‘The Tanked’ thinks about MLB’s CBA now. Was he “for” the CBA because he still wants Bud Selig’s job as commissioner?

  76. Milo Hamilton says:


    Frank’s been pretty much AWOL this season.

  77. PEDs will do that for you Braun. Dang 1-0 deficite to start the second half.

  78. Bizrow says:

    A pox on Ryan Braun

    The latest listing, if your current residence is not on the list, please let me know where you currently reside

    Dejan’s Lunatic Nation – at the Trib,
    Arizona – Tucson, Chandler, Phoenix, Sunnyslope
    Arkansas – Rogers
    Austrailia – Mackay
    California – Bakersfield, San Francisco, UNION CITY, Los Angeles, Newport Beach, Hollywood, Huntington Beach, Yuba City
    Canada – Toronto, Manitoba
    China – Singapore
    Colorado – Ft Collins, Estes Park, Denver, Boulder
    Connecticut – Cos Cob, Bridgeport, Wallingford
    Costa Rica
    Czech Republic
    Delaware – Newark
    District of Columbia
    Florida – Palm Harbor, Orlando, Valrico, Gainesville, Daytona Beach, Oviedo, Tampa, Jacksonville, Sarasota, Palm Beach Gardens, Cape Coral, Coco Beach (Major Nelson and Mary Ann), Niceville (Red Neck Rivera)
    Georgia – Marietta, Atlanta, Sandy Springs
    Germany – Leverkusen/Cologne
    Hawaii – Honolulu
    Idaho – Mountain Home, Coer d’Aline
    Indiana – Indianapolis, Burns Harbor, South Bend
    Iowa – Bettendorf, Humboldt
    Illinois – La Salle, Peru, Payson, Chicago, Palatine (3 inmates there), Lincoln Park, Grayslake, Lincoln Park, Algonquin
    Japan – Tokyo
    Kentucky – Louisville, Bowling Green, Lexington
    Louisiana – Slidell
    Maine – Bangor
    Maryland – Arnold, Odenton, Severn, Baltimore, Waldorf
    Massachusetts – Boston
    Michigan – Kalamazoo, Eaton Rapids, Lansing
    Mississippi – Biloxi
    Mountain Home AFB*
    Nebraska – Omaha
    New Hampshire – Barrington
    New Jersey – Chesterfield, Princeton, Roxbury, Lebanon, Lincoln Park, Berkeley Heights, Somerville
    New York – New York, Smithtown, Manhattan
    North Carolina – Asheville, Hickory, Charlotte, Raleigh, Charleston, Wilmington, Chapel Hill
    North Dakota
    Ohio – Cincinnati, Columbiana, Westerville, Green, Hilliard, Toledo, Louisville, Columbus, Perrysburg, Pickerington, Youngstown, Cleveland, Olmsted Township, Liberty Township, Warren, Oregon
    Pennsylvania – Downtown, Hopewell, Indiana, North Wales, Franklin Park, Forest Hills, Lansdale, Philadelphia, Du Bois, Reading, Crafton, Arnold, Wexford, Mt Lebanon, Canonsburg, Lancaster, Huntington, York, Boiling Springs, Philly suburbs, Morningside, Harrisburg, Lawrenceville, Bradfordwoods, Norristown, Hanover, Clearfield, Sewickley, DuBois, Plum Boro, Slippery Rock, Wilks-Barre, Sharpsville, Bessemer, Greensburg, Washington, Imperial, South Side, Duncansville, Newville, Sheppton, Grove City, Butler, Allentown, Ross Township, Blairsville, Flood City (Johnstown), Overbrook, Danny’s Hoagies, Baldwin, Economy, Sharpsville, Erie, North Huntington, Bellfonte, West Mifflin, Kennywood, Pleasant Hills, Beechview (Mad Turk, No 200), Macgunie, Mechanicsburg
    The Phillipines
    Rhode Island
    South Carolina – Duncan, Longs, Columbia
    South Korea – Seoul, Mike
    Tennessee – Smithville, Nashville
    Texas – Tyler, San Antonio, Belton
    Utah – Salt Lake City
    Vermont – North Bennington
    Virginia – JAL, Hampton, Rescue, Richmond, Front Royal, Woodbridge, Suffolk, Warrenton, Springfield, Virginia Beach, Fairfax, Arlington, Yorktown, Henrico
    Washington – Seattle, Nine Mile Falls, Spokane, Sammamish
    West Virginia – Martinsburg, Morgantown
    Wisconsin – Madison, Oshkosh, Hortonville

    211 locations represented in the blog,
    10 countries
    39 states, plus the District of Columbia
    Two planets, at least confirmed
    7/13/2012 8:10 PM

    DK: Just Winnipeg, please, Biz. Chris is from Winnipeg proper. Thanks.

  79. Pig Legs Robinson says:

    I doubt if next year’s draft will be as weak as this year’s was. Really, you can’t know how deep any draft is until many years down the road. It’s basically all speculation.

    I don’t think Coonelly was in favor of this year’s CBA. I highy doubt it anyway.
    It was the rich teams like the Yankees and Redsox that forced this, and it was them that cried the loudest about the Pirates’ actions in the past several drafts.

  80. Eric Bowser says:

    @Milo – Frank shouldn’t have a job in Pittsburgh, he’s done nothing for the team in baseball matters (CBA) and embarrassed the franchise with the DUI. I have no respect for the man because of the latter.

  81. JMac having trouble putting anyone away with 2 strikes.

  82. Scott says:

    Not the way we wanted to get the second half started. Pick doesn’t sign and fall behind brew crew in 1st inning…..

    Uh oh.

  83. Milo Hamilton says:

    Think I’ll walk the dogs.

  84. Sutton clearly showing he is not an outfielder. Too many bad plays lately. 3-0 now. That HR by Braun has unraveled JMac for some reason.

  85. I just hate when we have the All-Star break when we are actually playing well. It ALWAYS takes the momentum away.

  86. Eric Bowser says:

    Sutton is a good bench player, Marte needs to be in LF sooner rather than later.

  87. Pig Legs Robinson says:

    Let Sutton show his ineptitude in the field now so that the Pirates don’t get comfortable with this over-achieving team. They need to add good hitting corner outfielders who are legitimate defenders. No matter how well they’ve done in the first half, this has and will continue to be a great need.

  88. Slick says:

    Hopefully JMac settles down….

  89. Slick says:

    Looks like JMac circa 2011

  90. Boise Bucco says:

    Looks like JMac is trying to throw his fastball too hard…it’s staying high in the zone.

    This opinion comes to you straight from a guy who has never played pro baseball, so obviously I know what I’m talking about…

  91. Boise Bucco says:

    This “uh-oh” moment brought to you by Charlie Morton…

  92. Jandy says:

    Well, finally got a chance to check in here. Bucs down 3-0. Drew on a roll…as usual. Milo too.
    I love coming here even if we are losing, cuz you guys crack me up.
    C’mon Bucs, let’s get it in gear!

  93. Jandy says:

    Yes! Got outta that one!

  94. JD says:

    Playoffs – I’m late to the party, but I’d like to get 75 on the over for series wins if still possible.

    BTW – I noticed a post in yesterday’s PSU entry from someone with the same (JD) handle as mine. Is that possible?

  95. Boise Bucco says:



  96. Mike Shigley says:

    Well, at least Luis Heredia had another good outing: 5 inning, 3 hits, 3 walks, and one run (earned). That upped his ERA and WHIP (because he had had only 1 walk total in all his previous starts).

  97. Slick says:

    Terrible at bat by Walker

  98. Boise Bucco says:

    Bahaha Ricky Weeks’ stomach has a gravitational pull, tried to suck the ball in

  99. Mike Shigley says:

    What a wasted inning.

  100. Bizrow says:

    Winnipeg it is, I thought so, but wasn’t quite sure

    So, we need another from somewhere else in Manitoba ;-)


  101. Slick says:

    But the story is both Jones and McHeehee hit weak ass grounders. At least Casey took the count full vs Jones just swinging away as soon as he got in the box.

  102. Bizrow says:

    Its still early, lets see if JMac finds his groove, 2-1 to start Hart, doesn’t look like it 62 pitches so far

  103. JMB says:

    Who is voting on this poll?

    Cutch is the MVP — far and away!

  104. Great double play by Clint and Neil!

  105. Boise Bucco says:

    WOW Nice double play! Barmes!!!

  106. Bizrow says:

    JMB – some thought it was the “most tattoos”

    No disrespect to AJ, he should be distant second, IMO

  107. Bizrow says:

    We were seeing Maz teaching on Walkers throw

    PRNW will just get better

  108. Playoffs by 2012 says:

    FYI, thanks to all who played, I have your (fake) wagers noted. Good Luck!!

  109. Bizrow says:

    No, thanks to you Playoffs


    Ducks on the pond

  110. There you go Sutton! Making up for the defense. 3-2 now. How about a hit here Walker to go to 13 games on Friday the 13th!!

  111. Jandy says:

    Nice hit Sutton!

  112. Jandy says:

    YEAH!!!!! Walker~!!!

  113. Called it! Thank you Neil Walker for the three run dinger for a 5-3 lead!!

  114. Bizrow says:

    Lets see, my phone just buzzed


    Another buzz



  115. Officer Mancuso says:

    Wow. Down early, worst fears confirmed. Now back on top. This team is different.

  116. Bizrow says:

    This is scary, Jandy is in the building ;-)

  117. Bizrow says:

    79 pitches for JMac, wild as all get out on some

  118. Jandy says:

    lol Biz! ;)

  119. Jandy says:

    dayum! Nasty hit by dat Brewer…

  120. Not a good outing at all by JMac. Maybe too much down time for him.

  121. all their runs with 2 out and several with 2 strikes on the batters too.

  122. Bizrow says:

    Here we go

    Gotta get some more runs

    About 90 pitches for the Ace

  123. Jandy says:

    Lucky to escape without more damage

  124. JMac through 4 innings is at 89 pitches with 0 strikeouts and 4 walks. One of those walks came around to score.

  125. Pig Legs Robinson says:

    I’ve been impressed all this season that in the games that our starting pitcher ‘just doesn’t have it’, how the team has bailed them out so well and so often. The timely hitting and defense in these situations has been admirable.
    McDonald is having one of his worst starts of the year, yet the team is still winning the game.
    I expected the Pirates would at least get 4 runs before it ends, so the 3-0 deficit didn’t phase me.
    Still, I think the sooner McDonald leaves this game, the better. These games happen no matter what, and the manager needs to be careful especially in these middle innings about leaving him out there too long.

  126. Slick says:

    Jones looks terrible tonite

  127. Bizrow says:

    How bout a good at bat from Pedro?

  128. Bizrow says:

    Thanks Pedro!

  129. Pig Legs Robinson says:

    Yay for Pedro!

  130. Boise Bucco says:

    Wow…one day, Pedro’s gonna be in the Home Run Derby.

  131. Pedro!!! 6-4 for the good guys with that dinger to right-center.

  132. Reading says:

    A handle shot by Pedro. Nice to get that run back.

  133. Jandy says:

    Sweet!!! maybe Walker and Pedro can have their own HR derby ;)

  134. Kevin says:


    You truly are the queen of the blog…LOVE your enthusiasm!!

  135. Pig Legs Robinson says:

    Alvarez & Walker seem to be pretty good friends. They get so happy for each other, I’ve noticed in the highlights clips. What better way to teach our big bopper about our city than to have a good friend like the home-grown Neil Walker.

  136. TDB1977 says:

    Getting the free preview of MLB Extra Innings on DirectTV is pretty nice. During the inning break, I can switch over to the Reds/Cardinals game and see how that game is progressing.

  137. Mike C. says:

    wow, woke up late and the game seems crazy so far.
    too bad didn’t get to place my bets =(
    and Pedro just launched a bomb
    again wow

    so what was J-Mac’s trouble today so far? no fastball control, bad slider, curveball being hit a lot?

  138. Jandy says:

    Aww now Kevin, I’m just a crazy ol’ lady ;)
    But I have to admit, I love this blog, and learn a lot here from ALL you guys.
    You guys rock :)

  139. Boise Bucco says:

    Anybody besides me hoping that this is JMac’s last inning? Hope Lincoln’s warming up.

    Man, I can’t believe that Lincoln’s even in trade discussions at this point. I’d rather not have a bat than trade him away right now. He’s too good at rescuing starters.

  140. TDB1977 says:

    If we end up with a pick between 1 and 8 in the draft next year, this team has rolled over worse then they did last year.

  141. Bizrow says:

    CMon JMac, this is all guts now

  142. Reading says:

    Completely abandoned fastball.

  143. Jandy says:

    Boise, yeah I don’t know what’s up with JMac but he’s making me bite my nails

  144. Milo Hamilton says:

    Hey Jandy. Sure is nice to have a game to talk about.

  145. Boise Bucco says:

    Is he even throwing a slider anymore?

  146. Milo Hamilton says:

    Reds lead St. Louis 4-3 – bottom 8th.

  147. Bizrow says:

    Well, wadda you do now?

    New pitcher

  148. Pig Legs Robinson says:

    I believe that 9th pick we got for not signing Appel will be big for us since I’m counting on having one of the lowest picks in the draft for our regular pick.

  149. Jandy says:

    Man, he’s visibly upset …

  150. Jandy says:

    Milo ~ sure is! Beats some of the stuff goin down the last couple days…missed this stuff!

  151. Boise Bucco says:

    JMac sure was ticked off walking off the field. Nice job by Hurdle trying to leave him in as long as he could.

    But then Hughes came running on to the field like Stone Cold Steve Austin…I have good feelings about this.

  152. JMac finally gets two K’s, but yet another 0-2 pitch hit into play for a single, and the third hit by the catcher. Not going to get the win tonight. Hold on bullpen!!!

  153. Boise Bucco says:

    ah crap Hughes you’re makin’ me look like an idiot

  154. Jandy says:


  155. Another walk comes around to score on the first pitch.

  156. Reading says:

    All their RBI hits seem to find that same hole at short. Come on Man!

  157. Bizrow says:

    We’ll need a few more runs

    Hughes comes through

  158. twentytwo22 says:

    The only LH hitter Watson is allowed to face is Votto?

  159. Jandy says:


  160. Milo Hamilton says:

    Jerry Layne needs some caffeine.

  161. Milo Hamilton says:


    That’s why they need another lefty.

  162. Barmes is having a decent night in the field, but he must have been practicing on his pop-up during the break. That makes two this game to Cory Hart.

  163. Jay G -Jacksonville FL via New Castle says:

    Come on guys, tack on………..The “Hit Collector” needs to start collecting some hits….

  164. Jandy says:

    Too bad we don’t have a runner on base…wild pitch

  165. Jay G -Jacksonville FL via New Castle says:

    swung at ball 4……………

  166. Jandy says:

    well, that bites!

  167. Milo Hamilton says:

    I dare say this is probably the pivotal inning in this game.

  168. Jandy says:

    show us what you got Lincoln!

  169. Jandy says:

    You gotta be kidding me!?!

  170. Reading says:

    This is one of those survive and advance games. Need to somehow get out of there with the W and start over tomorrow.

  171. Are these guys hung over from their break? 5 walks and 2 hits batsman. Nice throw by Rod to get Nyger!

  172. Jandy says:

    Oh nice pick!

  173. Milo Hamilton says:

    Reds beat the Cards 5-3.

  174. Boise Bucco says:

    Lol everybody runs on the Bucs…except Tony Plush.

  175. Jandy says:

    Steve, same batter (Morgan) hit by two of our pitchers….

  176. Reading says:

    Nice. Could only have been better if T Plush had overslid second and been tagged out. Need to get Eva!

  177. Jandy says:


  178. Should have just walked him, dang it! Tie @$#%# game.

  179. Reading says:

    Come on Man!

  180. Bizrow says:

    Ok, Braun, I do not like

    Gotta score more

  181. Pig Legs Robinson says:

    Why do they even pitch to Braun? If they could just pitch around him they wouldn’t have any problems.

  182. Walker Cutch and Jones due up in the top of the 7th, so hopefully they put together some good ABs and get some freaking runs.

  183. Playoffs by 2012 says:

    Stupid, stupid pitching on both sides tonight.

  184. Jandy says:

    pitching is rough tonite….c’mon brad!

  185. Reading says:

    Braun taking away MVP votes tonight. Cutch needs to tespond.

  186. Jandy says:

    playoffs, lol

  187. Milo Hamilton says:

    Amazing lack of quality pitches tonight.

  188. Reading says:

    Same grounder up the middle.

  189. Jandy says:

    Thank you Walker!

  190. Milo Hamilton says:

    Already 255 pitches thrown tonight – and still 3 innings to go. At least.

  191. Jandy says:

    Milo, rust…or bust????

  192. Jandy says:

    ok gotta runner on…let’s go boys!

  193. Pig Legs Robinson says:

    I’d be surprised if Parra gives Cutch anything at all to hit.

  194. Jandy says:

    nice! 2 runners on now…

  195. Pig Legs Robinson says:

    Posture, Garrett!

  196. Just saw AJ talking to Correia in the dugout. Hopefully he is telling him to pitch good tomorrow night, or at least taking him under his wing as well. Come on Jonesy!!

  197. Jandy says:


  198. Pig Legs Robinson says:

    Usually guys do pretty good against their former teams.

  199. JohninOshkosh says:

    God I hate twitchy, itchy, ocdy, Brauny

  200. Dang All-Star break!

  201. Pig Legs Robinson says:

    Get ahold of one Pedro!

  202. Jandy says:

    Osh Kosh I just wanna slap Braun Grrrr!

  203. JohninOshkosh says:

    Jandy: Just got home. Looks like a good game and sell out crowd at Drunken Park

  204. Jandy says:

    Osh Kosh, the pitching is nasty…

  205. Milo Hamilton says:


  206. Jandy says:

    JEEZ! Left two runners on…

  207. Poor ABs by the 4-5-6 hitters!

  208. Reading says:

    Well, that was pleasant. Thanks for stopping by.

  209. Pig Legs Robinson says:

    This has been a tough one. Hurdle needs to play the rest of this game sly as a fox.
    We need to win tonight.

  210. Reading says:

    Bernie Brewer is a clown.

  211. Reading says:

    Need some original “Buc Town”: “McCutchen, Walker, Alvarez about to get clowned!”

  212. Slick says:

    GIJones and Casey look really bad tonight.

  213. Boise Bucco says:

    Man, Bucs forgot how to throw first-pitch strikes over the break.

  214. Slick says:

    Check please!

  215. Pig Legs Robinson says:

    Somebody on the bench ought to be reading this blog and relaying our comments to the Hurdle and the players. Where else can you get real-time friendly advice on the job? DK’s is the best blog in Pittsburgh.
    What a fantastic innovation, this internet thing.

  216. Milo Hamilton says:

    You know, they have enough good hitters in this lineup. You can’t let that stiff get 4 hits.

  217. Jandy says:


  218. JohninOshkosh says:


    At County Stadium a much more teutonic looking Bernie would slide from a keg into a beer mug. But, alas, political correctness prevailed. Now, his slide is sponsored by a family oriented water park.

  219. Playoffs by 2012 says:

    The lack of any control for tonight’s pitchers is painful.

  220. Milo Hamilton says:

    Remember when Aoki nearly beat Nicklaus at the US Open at Baltusrol ?

  221. Reading says:

    Maybe the MLB Authenticator can authenticate that K ball for that guy.

  222. Pig Legs Robinson says:

    These are the kinds of games that a good team’s newspaper sports headline tomorrow should read “Braun’s 2 hr & Maldonado’s 4 hits not enough to overcome Pirates”

  223. Reading says:

    Here we go. Pencil hit up the middle.

  224. Reading says:


  225. Jandy says:

    we need some hits and runs Bucs!

  226. This has the feel of a Yankees-Red Sox game in that this thing is taking F-O-R-E-V-E-R (queue scene of that be-speckled kid from “The Sandlot”). We still have 2 innings to play and we are coming up on the 3 hour mark.

  227. JohninOshkosh says:

    I hope K-Rod’s girlfriend’s Dad is not in the house. Wouldn’t want any trouble.

  228. Pig Legs Robinson says:

    I love these kinds of games but I hate them too. Such a paradox.
    I only listen on radio but I read the box score as I listen and do ten other things at once. It’s how I do everything come to think of it.

  229. Milo Hamilton says:

    Wake the kids, we have eclipsed the 300 pitch mark.

  230. And with that the OVER wins tonight with the 10th K.

  231. Reading says:


  232. Pig Legs Robinson says:

    Okay, McKenry. now some hope.

  233. Can we also get someone who can properly instruct these guys on HOW TO BUNT when it is needed? Come on Mikey!

  234. Reading says:

    How about we send Gorkys?

  235. JohninOshkosh says:

    C’mon Fort-take him deeeeep!

  236. Reading says:

    Then send him again. Then a wild pitch.

  237. Reading says:

    Or get picked off

  238. Pig Legs Robinson says:

    ohhhh. That’s sick.

  239. Milo Hamilton says:

    Just don’t deserve to win this game. Awful.

  240. Caught sleeping. He was very late breaking back to the bag. I see him being sent down after the game. Marte anyone?

  241. Jandy says:

    That should Never happen Grrrr!!

  242. Jandy says:

    Steve, can we all say PLeASE??!??

  243. Playoffs by 2012 says:

    This game isn’t helping my high blood pressure…….need to go find my pills.

  244. Boise Bucco says:

    That was just about as terrible inning as they’ve had all year.

  245. Pig Legs Robinson says:

    We have to win this game. Some how, some way.

  246. After that, this game is likely over since they will probably now get some excuse me hits before some blast. Sorry, that is just the way this stuff seems to go when the Bucs are playing like this.

  247. JohninOshkosh says:

    I hate to say it but this game has Brewer walk off written all over it.

  248. Slick says:

    Sorry to say but it just feels like the Brewers will just win in bot 9 with ugly play and walk off.

  249. Milo Hamilton says:

    Haven’t been able to get through the middle of the order all night. If they somehow do it now, top of the order in the 9th & advantage Pirates. I know, I’m dreaming.

  250. Pig Legs Robinson says:

    I got a better feeling about this season’s Pirates pulling this out some way by hook or crook.

  251. JohninOshkosh says:

    I don’t care if the game is tied-just plunk Braun for the heck of it.

  252. Milo Hamilton says:

    Now how about backing old googley eyes off the plate just once.

  253. Pig Legs Robinson says:

    Don’t pitch to him!

  254. Pig Legs Robinson says:

    No problem with pitching AT him, just not TO him.

  255. Playoffs by 2012 says:

    I dig the all gray gear for The Fort.

    Stealth Mode

  256. Reading says:

    Figures. Time to double up Aramis.

  257. Jay G -Jacksonville FL via New Castle says:

    That was a great play by Barmes…………

  258. Pig Legs Robinson says:

    That’s fine with me, a single is like a walk in this situation.

  259. Jandy says:

    I need a beer!

  260. Playoffs by 2012 says:

    Found the pills…..

  261. JohninOshkosh says:

    Just be thankful if you are watching the Root feed. The Brewers announcers have already canonized Lloyd Braun.

  262. Jandy says:

    I have Braun in the same boat with Barry Bonds…

  263. Jandy says:

    can we have Grilli please????

  264. The position of Barmes is the worst. He does make the plays most of the time, but I see too many times that he is cheating to the bag or to third way too much to where he can’t get to some balls. Come on Tony! Don’t let Hart beat us AGAIN.

  265. Reading says:

    Same grounder. Where’s Grilli? Got to show confidence that we will go ahead in 9th and be in closer situation.

  266. Milo Hamilton says:


    Man on 1st, shortstop has to cheat toward 2nd base bag.

  267. JohninOshkosh says:

    I can’t remember a time when this half inning wasn’t being played.

    DK: Great line.

  268. Jandy says:


  269. Reading says:

    That’s what Pirates should have done in 7th-the double steal Walker and Cutch.

  270. Milo Hamilton says:

    This is the ballgame right here.

  271. @Milo, I understand, but there are other instances where no one is on, and I see him over one way or the other too much. More of an overall rant than for that one hit. Just frustration with that and how this game is playing out.

  272. bob hasis says:

    Why is Watson pitching to all of those right-handed batters, when we have so many righties in the pen?

  273. Pig Legs Robinson says:


  274. JohninOshkosh says:

    Nighty night kids.

  275. Jay G -Jacksonville FL via New Castle says:

    agian….why no Grilli?????…..Just because we don’t have the lead????…Really…???


    DK: Five fastballs in a row. Yikes.

  277. Playoffs by 2012 says:

    Welcome to the 2nd Half………..

  278. Jandy says:

    well, my dog wants out, so I’m going to let her out and call it a night. Thanks for putting up with me guys !

  279. Reading says:

    Is it too late to bring Grilli in? Just figures. There’s your season changing play right there.

  280. Everyone is still on a break on this team. Pitchers – Coaches – and most of the Hitters.

  281. Playoffs by 2012 says:

    Not a good day for the Pirates today. Between the Appel fiasco and now this…..Not a good day at all.

  282. Milo Hamilton says:

    When it takes 198 pitches to get through 8 innings, you’re not going to win very often. Goodnight everyone.

  283. Jay G -Jacksonville FL via New Castle says:

    Should’ve been in there to start the 8th………….

  284. One of Wehner’s keys to the game was to Bully the Bullies, and we failed miserably right there.

  285. twentytwo22 says:

    F Clint Hurdle. Best relievers still available. Jones overmatched versus lefties.

  286. Reading says:

    Good thing Burnett goes tomorrow. Oh wait…

  287. Reading says:

    Home run Derby maybe screwed up his swing or not. Nice blast!

  288. There you go Cutch! Wish the rest of the team can do what you do.

  289. Slick says:

    They better shake this one off quick. Good showing by Cutch there… Statement at bat for his teammates and his manager that had a brain fart.

  290. swissvaletoarizonapat says:

    he JACKED that ball! go cutch!!

  291. Where was that hit when we needed it Jonesy? Another bloop and a blast will tie it up!! They scored pretty much all of their runs with two outs tonight, so why can’t we do that now by taking Cutches lead.

  292. Reading says:

    Ball four like five times.

  293. Reading says:

    Got to get Pedro up to add to his legend.

  294. Reading says:

    Platinum sombrero instead.

  295. Jay G -Jacksonville FL via New Castle says:

    swing the gd bat Casey………..

  296. Swings at several ball 4s and looks at strike three that was a little above the knees.

  297. tmp444 says:

    Swing the bat mcgehee! Whether you like the call or not…that is way too close to take with the tying run on deck! Ugh!

  298. Slick says:

    Casey McWiff tonight. Was that 3 or 4 Ks for him tonight?

  299. Playoffs by 2012 says:

    Yuck, yuck, yuck. 12 K’s gets the OVER an easy victory. Thanks to everyone who played. See you tomorrow.

    Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) ** 1500
    Mlrgenuine ** 1300
    pattonbb ** 1300
    Nate83 ** 1140
    dcpinpgh ** 950
    Chico ** 905
    JRay3 ** 900
    radio wave ** 872
    DemonDachshund ** 710
    Steve J Smith ** 700
    Evan ** 578
    crkkid ** 575
    jeffsbar ** 500
    cosmo ** 500
    manny_sanguine ** 450
    JMB ** 450
    Naje ** 450
    RobertoForever ** 425
    milo66 ** 400
    dcpfjr ** 350
    JD ** 350
    cmat0829 ** 350
    Bizrow ** 320
    likeabugonarug ** 307
    tmp444 ** 280
    MarkV ** 275
    JaxBuc ** 260
    JohninOshkosh ** 250
    Slack Boss ** 235
    stuart66 ** 200
    Officer Mancuso ** 180
    lawnbeaver ** 150
    lckythump ** 100
    Absolute59 ** 100
    Mike C. ** 100
    OZ ** 50
    Sir Lochsby ** 50
    TK ** 50
    JUCOfan ** 25
    Kevin S ** EVEN
    Hal Smith ** EVEN
    NMR ** EVEN
    Dan1283 ** EVEN
    Drew 71 ** EVEN
    Milo Hamilton ** -75
    Boise Bucco ** -100
    buggee ** -100
    Petro Steel ** -100
    Pants-n-at ** -100
    Joe Bucco ** -100
    Arriba Wilver ** -135
    bman ** -140
    GlassHalfFull ** -305
    bob hasis ** -325
    Kevin ** -350
    TDB1977 ** -1040

  300. JRA says:

    I’m not totally sure I understand the slot system, but it strikes me as weird that Boras played this to the brink and basically said the Pirates had to be willing to wreck their future to sign this guy. Isn’t it bad for the player to sign under those terms, so that he’d always be the guy who caused the team not to have a first round pick?

  301. Drew71 says:

    JeRemiAh – If I had the choice of $3.8M and beloved or $6M and blamed for losing a pick, I’d take the blame. The extra $2.2M can buy a lot of friends.

    Of course it’s not that simple.
    – Risk of injury, partially offset by an insurance policy, but that costs money and is only a partial remedy for all the lost future income.
    – Risk of weaker performance during the coming season, and lowered draft standing.
    – Risk that another player or two rises above you, and with hard slotting, you “only” pick up an additional half million or so which doesn’t compensate for the lost year.

    But if the only choices are the ones you chose, I take the personal PR hit. Guys like this usually have extreme confidence. He would probably believe he’d earn the respect to match the OTHER thing he’d get out of the deal.

    The Money.

  302. Drew71 says:

    Money Changes Everything. As sung by Cyndi Lauper, the bellwether for a generation.

    (As written by Tom Gray. Of the aptly named band The Brains.)

    Did I just go all JAL on you? I should be so lucky. (and honored)

  303. JUCOFan says:

    Unquestionably a misfire by the FO. Should have drafted someone else.

  304. Arriba Wilver says:

    I’ve defended Boras against some of the more outlandish claims about him, but if a client signs with him, aren’t they pretty much agreeing its only about the money? If the Astros did in fact offer $6 mil, and he did in fact turn it down, and he would have accepted $6 mil from the Pirates, he miscalculated. And Appel as a senior won’t have any leverage next year.

  305. Drew71 says:


    I’ve questioned the FO a lot. A ton.

    But I have no problem with trying to get a #1 overall talent at the 8th spot, for 8th spot money. Knowing the risk is not all or nothing but rather a 9th spot the next year.

    Sometimes you have to try The One Big Thing. And with their risk mitigated, I think it was worth it. I said so when they made the pick knowing the risk. It would be disingenuous of me to flip-flop now.

    I made a case. I realize that one could make just as valid a case the other way, especially if that case was consistently held from the time the pick was made.

    But I recognize its validity. Which is why I don’t refer to my OPINION as “unquestionable.”

  306. Arriba Wilver says:

    Well, there is grad school.

  307. Drew71 says:

    Arriba, there may be one more element to the calculation.

    If the slot for the first overall pick is $6M, and the first level of penalty (75% $ penalty but no sacificed pick) takes it up to, let’s say, $7.2M (I don’t know what that level is, but the Pirates were willing to do that from the 8th spot)…I wonder if he’s calculating not at the $6M but at my fictitious $7.2M. And I also wonder if Houston was given an idea of what would be required – the penalty level – and that’s why they picked otherwise.

    Then as Appel fell, the slots reduced for other teams, making it that much less likely that Appel would sign.

    This is all just speculation. But I would also speculate that if the Pirates had the #1 overall pick, knowing their draft history, they would have bid to that first level of penalty, to my $7.2M guesstimate.

    So maybe that is what Boras is counting on next year. That another team will be willing to do that.

    I’m not challenging your question about miscalculation. You may be right. Just expanding the math a bit of the calculation.

    If I’m guessing correctly, then this is an all or nothing strategy on Appel’s part. Get to the #1 overall pick, push through at least the first penalty level, and it’s worth it. If you DON’T get selected first next season, or of next year’s team uses the leverage of no more college eligibility and stays at the slot amount (your point, and a good one), that would be varying levels of failure.

    Gutsy call. As Dejan said, We’ll see.

  308. JMB says:

    As NH said, “it was a calculated risk,” and we lost.

    NH got mucho credit for Allie in ’10 and Bell in ’11 for taking risks and winning, so he should get some blame for gambling and losing in ’12.

    It all comes back to ’13 picks now. This isn’t catastrophic, but it ain’t nuttin’ to be proud of either. Losing is losing.

    Our draft for ’12 now looks pretty bad, but ’13 can look awesome. Time will tell.

  309. Arriba Wilver says:

    Could be, Drew. Mine was a little more simplistic, and if the 7.2 was what he was looking for, it just makes my point even more obvious this year. Which was IF he turned down $6 from the Astros, but was willing to accept $6 from the Pirates (which is what his BFF Dejan said he was) then that’s the miscalculation I was referring to.

  310. Thundercrack says:

    I believe the reporter who first said that the Astros offered Appel $6 million came out a few weeks later and said that it was not true.

  311. Arriba Wilver says:

    Thanks, TC. I hadn’t heard that, but that uncertainty was why I loaded up on ” ifs.”

  312. bob hasis says:

    Just sitting here awaiting today’s thread, andpondering my question @#274, can someone explain why Watson was pitching to 5 straight right-handed batters? Our right-handed bullpen was available wasn’t it?

    And as was stated, all fast balls – with little movement – then BAM. My preference here is to question CH’s thinking

  313. Curt says:

    Morning all. Had someone suggest I google Ray Frank Gricar.

    I did and read the many articles on his disappearance. Could this be the weird twist in the PSU scandal? Anyone else hear about this?

  314. Thundercrack says:

    I just read Keith Law’s article on regarding Appel and the draft. After reading it I am still not sure if this new system is good or bad.

    But Law did mention this about Appel and next year’s draft: “His upside involves going higher in the 2013 draft, a class that looks much weaker than this year’s class did at this time last year, and one in which Appel would start out as the No. 1 overall talent.”

    That is the first time I heard that next year’s draft is weaker than this one.

  315. Arriba Wilver says:

    Curt–a DA going missing is always news, and was at the time, especially in Pennsylvania, and there have been questions from the beginning of the scandal about whether there is any connection, but until there’s any hard evidence, people are going to look at it as a lunatic fringe conspiracy theory. Of course, if someone had said before the indictments that there was no evidence the Big Four showed any concern for the victims, that would have sounded kind of lunatic fringe.

  316. Drew71 says:

    Interesting stuff.

    Seems 2013 is a risk-reward year for both Appel and PBC. Not an either/or. They could both win, lose, or it could be a split decision.

    So everybody has to wait a year to see how this all works out.

    Arriba, I also see the bigger point you were making that I missed.

    Funny, though, that after many saying that next year’s draft will be stronger at the top, now some are saying the opposite. Punditry. I wonder if the new thinking – weaker draft – is influenced INdirectly by Boras? In other words, a pundit thinking that Boras MUST be right because he usually is, so ipso facto pedro, the next draft must be weaker.

    Just playing around here. But I had heard others stating that it would be strong next year. Until now.

  317. Curt says:

    AW- Thanks. I never heard this story before, maybe since I live outside of PA.
    The evidence of a laptop destroyed, hard drive destroyed, etc. seems rather odd. I do not believe this could have been a suicide.
    Wonder if we will ever know for sure if this was part of the PSU scandal as well.?

  318. Drew71 says:

    Dejan just called. He said he’s changing the name of the blog to Lunatic Fringe.

  319. Thundercrack says:

    When DK called did you recognize his voice?
    I think his voice would be hoarse from yelling “Play Football” at so many people the past few days.

  320. Thundercrack says:

    I thought I heard that that DA was also investigating ‘organized crime’.

  321. Arriba Wilver says:

    I thought he was talking about soccer, getting ready for the London trip.

    Lunatic Wilver

  322. Drew71 says:

    Yes, Thunder. And he was mentally exhausted from explaining the arcane meaning he had for “PLAY…” You know, not the obvious insult-anyone-who-disagrees meaning that most of the rest of us initially thought he meant. But the be-honest-cause-I-can-read-your-mind-and-you-really-mean-something-else reasoning that he offered. Much later.

    Well. I made that exhausted thing up. Sorta. It exhausted me.

    PS…I’m not questioning Dejan’s sincerity. Just maybe the ability to mind read. Or the choice to.

    But I’m sure he meant it.

  323. Bizrow says:

    Does anyone know if the No 9 pick next year is “protected”? By that I mean what would happen if the PBC cannot sign that guy next season?

    When we got that pick for Schleppers, if we didn’t sign, was it Victor Black? we would end up losing that choice for good

  324. Arriba Wilver says:

    “Organized crime” in Centre County? I think there is no loss of theories because no one knows what happened. Cyril Wecht thinks there’s a connection to the PS scandal, which may be redundant when talking about lunatic fringe.

  325. Arriba Wilver says:

    Good point, Biz. The Pirates won’t have any leverage with the # 9 pick next year, either, so it will probably be a “safe” pick.

  326. Drew71 says:

    C’mon guys.

    This isn’t Palermo. Or Corleone. Or Hell’s Kitchen. Or Little Washington.

  327. Hey!!! You-a gonna bust on-a Little Washington,
    Im-a gonna have ta break-a yo face!!

    Or so my neighbor says!

  328. JohninOshkosh says:

    Fair warning:

    Going to the yard tonight and I’ve seen the Bucs win in Milwaukee about as many times as some of you guys have kissed a girl. Zing. If I stay sober enough, I’ll cheer on the Buccos (Miller Park is like going to a kegger).

  329. Drew71 says:

    John, it’s not your fault.

    It’s Miller Park.

    Not like they won lotza games on nights you didn’t attend.

    Or any.

  330. JMB says:

    My understanding is the 9th pick in 2013 is also protected, so it could carry over to 2014.

  331. JohninOshkosh says:

    Just saw this on The Onion. You know you have arrived if The Onion gets you. Ouch and sometimes heh, heh:,28778/

  332. JRay3 says:

    Seems I picked a great day to miss and take family away. Appel only pick not to sign, good luck with that. Braun terrorizes us, we lose on a grand slam to a .200 hitter and Miller Park once again turns into a house of horrors. My only question is with a fully rested pen how was Watson kept in that situation having thrown 30+ pitches to that point?

    Hopefully tonight is a better night don’t need any panic creeping in.

    @ John – enjoy the game bring us home a W

  333. LuckyNKentucky says:


    Good Onion article, and all true, too. It has to be. It was on the internet. Good Nutting column by DK today, too.

  334. LuckyNKentucky says:


    Uncle Bob Hasis asked that question, too. Seems to be an honest one. Maybe he was contemplating extra innings. Still, nobody but Hanny had pitched in four days and some longer than that.

  335. Bizrow says:

    Good to know, JMB, thanks for the info

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