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Wakeup Call: Perils of Penn State’s asterisks

By Dejan Kovacevic | Trib Total Media

Brief and to the Point …

>> The NCAA’s punishment of Penn State was just. Made my case to that effect right here yesterday and don’t really have much to add.

But there is a related side issue I’d like to raise: Those 111 victories the NCAA forced Penn State to vacate — every game from 1998-2011 covering the period of the known Jerry Sandusky events raises legit questions …

What happens to media guide listings for Penn State and the Big 10?

The results have to stay, but I’d imagine they just get denoted with an asterisk.

Will this have any effect — even perception-wise — on whether baseball and other major sports can similarly vacate records?

I don’t see why not. The Olympics have done it forever, forfeiting medalists to return medals and moving fourth-place finishers up to bronze. It’s always seemed especially taboo in baseball, which banned Pete Rose but didn’t dare touch his hits record. And never mind all the potential asterisks for steroids.

I’m just saying that, if a record like Joe Paterno’s can be erased with the swipe of one man’s pen, the conversation opens.

What happens to the 2010 game between the Nittany Lions and Ohio State that both schools now have been forced to vacate?

No, seriously, what is that, two losses?

>> Let me clear about one thing regarding Starling Marte: My stance that he should be in Pittsburgh now isn’t based on some unilateral viewpoint, certainly not on the couple days I spent up in Indy last month. In fact, on that trip, I thought a little more time was in order and wrote as much.

My stance is based on real things from people who are seeing him the most often. They know better than me, and they probably know better than anyone. After Marte went a modest 2 for 6 with an RBI single, a double and three strikeouts, very late last night, I was sent this message from that clubhouse: #FreeStarling

And that’s to say nothing of the very high-ranking executive who told me three weeks ago that Marte was ready in the clearest possible terms.

You can roll your eyes and think these people are too close to Marte. That might be the case. But a lot of these same people were the ones telling me a month ago that Marte wasn’t ready.

>> Looks like the Rangers swung quite a deal to get Rick Nash. You just have to wonder if John Tortorella will berate him if he doesn’t dive to eat a puck, as he did with Marian Gaborik last winter.

I’ll repeat what I wrote in a column two weeks ago: The Penguins have never liked Nash.

>> Heading over to the ballpark one final time in the afternoon, then packing up.


  1. Ryan76 says:

    DK – after reading all your comments yesterday about State College local businesses/jobs/revenues, I’ve drawn the following conclusion: you have to be the cheapest traveler in the tri-state area…hotel and gas only, huh?

    I can assure you most of us free independent travelers pack a few more Benjamins.

    Jobs would be lost and I’m sure businesses would be hurt, with ranging severity. The fact that no one gave you a specific example doesn’t change that. I don’t live there and don’t know every business in town but know the area fairly well. I’m confident many would suffer. With no games, in your example, they’d clearly suffer.

    And to cap the amount of visitors at the number of seats in Beaver Stadium is naive. Many, many more people converge on the town and don’t go to the game…watch in restaurants, bars, friends houses. Thousands and thousands of people. With disposable income.

    Finally, not all PSU supporters just want them to PLAY FOOTBALL. That mantra of yours is beyond tired. The masses of us feel embarrassment and anger towards the administration; and, of course, feel sympathy for the victims. We agree that justice absolutely must be served None of us wanted anything remotely like this….and to label us again and again as football-grubbing idiots is, quite frankly, appalling. Respectfully, please stop. You don’t know the first thing about any of us. Your labels reek of bias and the perception that your just trying to sell papers. That’s at least my perception.


    Ocean Springs, MS

    DK: You’d think I’d have to have some kind — any kind — of history with Penn State to have bias, right? My bio’s over there to the right. See for yourself.

    Second, how do the comments section of a blog “sell papers?” If you know that answer, I can assure you a highly promising future in saving the industry.

    Third, in all seriousness, I’d love to hear what your travel routine is, where you stay and eat, when you arrive and leave and what it all costs. It’s only one example, but at least it’s real compared to my fictional one.

  2. Happy G says:

    Very good article. Please, before commenting, I ask that you read the entire article, not just the first few paragraphs. If you think that this article defends Penn State then you didn’t read the entire article. I’ve made the point on here before that this could have happened at any university, it’s just Penn State that had a monster there. There are much bigger problems at our Universities then big time college football and that’s what is missing in most of the coverage about this tragedy. Sorry to bring politics into the discussion by posting this article but to think that this is just a sports problem is naive. Penn State failed at many levels and my biggest fear is the NCAA, Big Ten, and Penn State are not putting in the proper leadership to prevent this from happening again. Maybe not child molestation again but something criminal. Leadership is doing the right thing because of your core values, not because of fear of the sanctions that were given to Penn State.

  3. Boise Bucco says:

    It just sucks to think that between any one of them–JoePa, Spanier, Curley or Schultz–if any of them had just gone to the cops with this…

  4. Tim says:

    Explain to me how you can make wins, games, losses, whatever, disappear? Is that like striking a witnesses testimony so the jury won’t use it against the defendant? Is that jackassian or what?

  5. pghboyinca says:

    How can the Pirates in the middle of a pennant race continue to keep Marte down and trot Presley out there every day? If you are not bringing Marte up then make a trade, no more Presley. I looked at Barajas batting average and RBIs today and started laughing, wow outside of a few long balls horrible….You can’t have Barmes,Barajas, and Presley running out there daily. That will catch up to you.

  6. Curt says:

    If last night’s game was not a prime example of getting a new bat in the lineup via trade, then I don’t know what does. Bedard pitches well and takes the loss. When your starter only gives up one run, you should be winning those games!

    Seems to me teams the contending teams are going for it right now. We have some glaring holes in the lineup. What will we do when the teams start to pitch around Cutch?

  7. Curt says:

    Mlbtraderumors states the Marlins are open to moving Hanley Ramirez.

    Looks like my dream is still alive!

  8. Lasedog8 says:

    Maybe it’s Presley who needs to be sent to the minors for some more at bats?

  9. JAL says:

    JAL’s The Lion Sleeps Tonight Morning Links


    1- MLB Transactions

    2-MLB Trade Rumors-Pirates

    3 Go Buccos- Pirate News (from external sources)


    4—Pirates Prospects

    Pirates Notebook: Adjustments Continue to Pay Off For Bedard

    14 Innings And A Weird Finish Give Indians The Win

    Prospect Watch: McPherson Strikes Out Eight; Polanco, Curry, Santos Bring the Power

    MLB Trade Season Begins With Three Big Deals Around the League

    First Pitch: Pirates Comparable Prospects For Today’s Trades

    5 Bucs Dugout

    Jeff Samardzija Pitches 8 Innings Of 1-Hit Ball As Pirates Lose, 2-0

    6 Rumbunter

    Pittsburgh Pirates Headlines You Could See Based on What’s Already Been Written

    Why Were Not Crazy About the Shane Victorino to the Pittsburgh Pirates Rumors

    7 McEffect

    7/23 Recap | Cubs 2 Pirates 0

    8 The Green Weenie

    Samardzija & Soriano Silence Bucs 2-0

    9 Raise the Jolly Roger

    Bedard outdueled

    10 WHY GAVS

    Game 95: Cubs 2 Pirates 0

  10. JAL says:

    NEWSPAPERS and MAGAZINES and Other Media

    11 CBS Sports

    Pirates-Cubs Game Preview

    12 Baseball Nation

    Are Pirates Due For Another Dog-Days Fade?

    13 Chicago Tribune

    Samardzija at his best as Cubs blank Pirates–20120724,0,2975354.story

    14 NY Times

    A Fading Great Lands Where It Makes So Much Sense

    15 Chicago Sun Times

    Jeff Samardzija leads Cubs to shutout of Pirates

    16 Examiner

    Long ball pacing Pirates this season

    17 Beaver County times

    Pirates’ Sutton no stranger to moving around


    18 PBC Site

    Held to two hits, Pirates spoil Bedard’s gem

    Notebook: Steady work behind plate benefiting Bucs arms

    19 Baseball Prospectus

    Fear And Loathing (And Acceptance) in Nerdery

    20 Fangraphs

    Are the Wild Cards Now a Trap?

  11. JAL says:

    Steelers Blogs

    21 Behind the Steel Curtain

    First Round Pick David DeCastro Signs Rookie Contract

    The Lesson Behind Hines Ward’s Invocation of Steelers LB Greg Lloyd

    22 Steelers Depot

    -History Says Division Championship For Steelers In 2012

    23 Steelers Gab

    Former Steelers Safety Anthony Smith Retires

    24 Nice Pick Cower

    Steelers Situational Downs Key For Successful 2012 Season

    Pitt Blogs

    25 Pitt Blather

    The Culture Problem

    26 Cardiac Hill

    Penn State Sanctions: Nittany Lions Hit Hard, Make No Mistake About It

    WVU Blogs

    27 Metro News

    They Really Do Love The Mountaineers

    28 WV Illustrated

    Big 12 Media Days Interviews


    29 Sky Sports

    Transfer Clockwatch

    30 Daily Telegraph

    Chelsea at Yankee Stadium for pre-season game against Paris Saint-Germain: in pictures

    31 World Soccer Daily

    10 Ten stories you need to read, July 23rd, 2012


    32 Pensburgh

    A Look At The Penguins Development Camp Prospects

  12. JAL says:

    The Lion Sleeps Tonight, The Tokens, 1961. The Tokens formed in the late 1950s The Lion Sleeps tonight was their 2nd hit and their biggest hit. Neil Sedaka was an original members but he left the group before they recorded this song. There are currently two versions of the group performing, one led by original lead vocalist Jay Siegel and the other by the Magro brothers who with the group during their hit years. The song dates back to the 1920s when it was written by Solomon Linda, a South African singer.

  13. Thundercrack says:

    By looking at the way Presley takes routes to fly balls, it looks like he’s got a case of Tabata-itis.

  14. Clive says:

    @Happy G — excellent article.

    There are some significant flaws in the author’s thinking, however.

    “How much better off we would be if we could address the real problem at State College—to wit, senior college officials, including Paterno, reluctant to take real responsibility for those under them”
    This was actually the Joe Paterno way. The buck stopped with him. He took responsibility for his program and it worked. Except in this case, it failed entirely.

    “In truth, the scandal at Penn State is only incidentally about football. Mostly it is about the collapse of authority.”
    This is the one of the truest statements that has been made regarding the Penn State scandal.

  15. Danch70 says:

    I agree with DK, the death penalty should have been enacted. I disagree with DK that this punishment is worse. PSU should have gotten rid of the football program indefinitely. That can still do that on their own accord and it is the only right move. Clearly they were clouded by the power and dollars of football. An institution of education has veered far off course when they allow a trivial game and a big business to drive the horse. Of course, this isn’t only a problem in Happy Valley, but it is important that at times like these that the purpose and direction of these institutions is made explicit and clear. For all the peanut vendors who will lose their jobs, maybe the school can offer a tuition waiver and they can go back to school. But, really, it isn’t the universities’ purpose to provide jobs to hotel workers. And while losing some service jobs is sad, that should not be driving the Universities decision making.

    I think the Pirates are afraid to bring Marte up now and have him struggle – lowering his trade value. He’ll be up on August 1 if he isn’t traded. It’s the only explanation that makes sense to me.

  16. RobertoForever says:

    #FreeStarling, indeed.

    I wonder what the over/under would be for the number of games after he gets to the majors before Marte becomes the subject of derision on this blog and commentors.

    It will probably sound like this –

    ‘How many times is Marte going to get picked off’
    ‘That’s too many strikeouts at the lead off spot by Marte, and he never walks’
    ‘Wow, we should have traded Marte for anyone’

    I guess winning at an unprecedented rate doesn’t buy the FO or this coaching staff much goodwill.

  17. CraigWilson'sRevenge says:

    Kind of curious why the pens wouldnt like rick nash.

    is he the perfect fit for crosby? no.

    is he as automatic a 30 goal guy as anybody else in the league? yes.

    maybe they feel he works better when he is ‘the guy’ who the offense depends on.

  18. Ryan (WV) says:

    Here is a quote Mr. Smizik has up regarding Neal and trades:

    “What’s nice is that we don’t have to go get a starting pitcher. We don’t have to go get a bat. We don’t have to go get X or Y. We can pick what we want to get, if it’s a player or two. Or if the acquisition cost is exorbitantly high, we can stay with what we have.”

    As Mr. Smizik said, “Wrong, Neal, dead wrong”.

    DK: That quote look a little familiar, Ryan.

  19. Jandy says:

    RF, starting early, aren’t you? You’ve entirely missed the praise and good will directed at the FO and staff. Maybe isn’t because you don’t look for positive posts, and you look for negative ones. Have you always been hateful or is it something you’ve developed over time?

  20. Jandy says:

    Danch70 ~ “For all the peanut vendors who will lose their jobs, ”

    You’re joking, right?

  21. bdubb says:

    28,000 (looked like more) on a Monday night in Pittsburgh?!?! Do something NH! Too many on here are drinking your kool-aid thinking the offense we saw in June/half of July is the real offense. It isn’t. It would be a real shame not to do something in the next week. Us fans, after 20 years, deserve to have a real shot at this thing. There are no guarantees next year or the year after. Go for it NOW!

    If the Tigers can go out and make a move than I think the Pirates sure can.

  22. JAL says:

    Post 13 TC

    Presley is not a good a defensive OF, Pirates have two good defensive OF on the roster, Cutch and Hernandez. The others are average to below average, they will get the job done most plays but also will miss some balls a good OF would get.

  23. Jandy says:

    JAL, love the song today. Brings back memories lol

  24. RobertoForever says:


    So now I am hateful. Your interpretive skills are lacking. Oh and it will be less than 2 weeks on the over/under, lol.

    Hateful yours

  25. Dave G says:

    Jandy, YOU are well-liked on this blog.

    And that’s all I’m saying, and only to you.

  26. NMR says:

    Fantastic wit in the song choice, JAL.

    The Lion certainly has been put to sleep.

  27. Drew71 says:

    Dave. David. Mr. G.

    Stop being nice to Jandy.

    She’s MY girl.

    (just don’t tell her husband)


    Re: Nash…

    After CBJ GM Scott Howson to held out so long to move Nash, after all the talk of how the asking price was just too high, that he ultimately went for so little is something I don’t understand. Columbus managed to fill a lot of holes, but none of the players they got in return were significant. Honestly, did the New York Rangers even break a sweat signing this deal?

    Nevermind whether Nash would have been an ideal fit in Pittsburgh, imagine if Howson would have asked for Michalek, Kennedy, Tangradi, and Pouliot? Shero would be a fool not to pull the trigger…

  29. Arriba Wilver says:

    I was just going to post—“Jandy—love you,” but y’all beat me to it.

  30. Jandy says:

    RF, nice job nailing your own coffin, keep up the good work.

    Dave G, sometimes, I just can’t help myself…thanks for the compliment :)

    Drew…shhhhhh!!! Don’t be telling my secrets!

  31. Jandy says:

    Awwww, Arriba, darlin, <3 u 2 !

  32. Jandy says:

    RELENTLESS, I scratch my head over that deal too. I’m thinking a lot of GM’s think Nash is highly over-rated. I don’t watch him enough myself to judge.

  33. Arriba Wilver says:

    TC and JAL–I agree with you about Presley. Some still think he’s a good defender, though. Maybe it’s an optical illusion because he’s quick.

  34. Mike says:


    Love most of your writing but I have to admit, I agree with Ryan76. It gets a little tiring that because I don’t agree with the fact that giving PSU the “death penalty” would’ve been just that I’m just some jerk who loves football so much I’m willing to allow children to be molested. That is most definitely not the case. Really, all we’re doing by punishing PSU is trying to make an example for everyone in the country because PSU is such a large and dominant piece in society. I’m in favor of justice and I really don’t think justice has been served in any of this and quite frankly its taken the complete focus off the victims to begin with. Nobody has focused on any of the victims. Media has focused on… football. What is PSU football going to be punished with? How will this affect them? How will the team do? Didn’t hear too many (if any) say, the PSU football program was punished, how does this effect child abuse or the victims of Jerry Sandusky?

    Let’s be honest, this could’ve happened anywhere and probably is happening other places. What happened though is punishment on the innocent.

    This could have happened at your paper and by your logic, we should able to punish you for that, even if you had nothing to do with it, right? Guilt by association must be the correct path to take.

  35. David says:

    A few thoughts from me.

    Since the NCAA punished Penn State why did they limit it to football? Weren’t people connected with way more than just football involved. Why not impose sanctions on all sports since the ATHLETIC DEPARTMENT (more than football) was involved. Just seems like the NCAA is holding football higher the exact same thing Penn State did. By the way don’t take this as me against the punishments I just find it odd the NCAA would only hold football responsible when the Athletic Department and Administration was involved. Considering one thing they claim Penn State did was hold football ahead of all else it seems kind of ironic that that is all that is punished when more than just the football program was involved.

    Its funny to see people overreacting after a Pirate loss. I can tell there are a bunch of converted football fans who think one loss really stings.

    Its also funny to see some people including some here in the comments act like they are willing to have 10 or more losing seasons after this one just as long as the Pirates go for it this season. Yeah right, like the same people claiming this wouldn’t criticize the team for more losing seasons.

    Not so much on this blog but I find it hilarious people are saying Pittsburgh is a baseball town because of the crowds the Pirates are drawing. The Steelers and Penguins sell out every game, until the Pirates reach that level this talk is insane. Pittsburgh is a football town and will always be that. Can it embrace hockey and even baseball, sure. But to call it a hockeytown or baseballtown when football is clearly the city’s preferred sport is too much. If Pittsburgh is a baseball town I want to see 30,000 + in PNC next April on a 45 degree Wednesday night when the Pens are on TV in the playoffs. Give me that and I’ll give it some credence.

    As for Marte I agree he needs to be up here and in the lineup but keep him and his 30% strike out rate away from the leadoff spot. Also call up AAA best hitter Jeff Clement I mean really Drew Sutton is who we call on to pinch hit in the 9th inning with the tying run batting. Surely we can do better and Clement would be better.

  36. JMB says:

    Sounds like Upton is off the block. This might just be posturing due to not getting any offers that have blown them away.

  37. Brad, Indiana PA says:

    Huntingdon’s starting to sound a little delusional with his “interesting dynamic” speeches. Just don’t see how current roster makes him so calm about not making a move. We platoon every other position (which isn’t necessarily bad right now) but if we make postseason, not really the best approach. An everyday outfielder would be nice. When you’ve got a guy hitting like Cutch is, how can you be complacent with your leadoff hitter performing like ours have? Not saying we need a megadeal, but Victorino would be nice. Neal, if you’re not dealing, then at least bring up Marte now and see what happens- not going to hurt his trade value if he’s not going anywhere.

  38. Mike says:

    Oh, and I’m not sure I believe Starling Marte is ready yet. I don’t get to watch the Indy games yet (as much as I want to in order to see his at bats and see if they’re quality or what-not) but just a general feel says he’s not ready. I think we are all just really excited about the fact that the Pirates are finally not terrible and we just want to find improvements but really, I think that Marte’s development isn’t fully there yet. Let him finish the year in AAA.

  39. JAL says:


    Thanks, theme this week is animals and thought that song fit best today

  40. CraigWilson'sRevenge says:

    when NH says they don’t need to make a deal, he is just BSing and doing the whole GM thing.

    if he went on and blabbed “we are desperate to add a leadoff hitter,” we’d be complaining that he wasn’t doing the GM speak that he is doing now.

  41. JAL says:


    Prersley’s speed is good and does allow him to cover some errors but while a good OF makes hard plays look easy, Presley sometimes makes easy plays look hard.

  42. Jandy says:

    “Pittsburgh is a football town and will always be that. Can it embrace hockey and even baseball, sure. But to call it a hockeytown or baseballtown when football is clearly the city’s preferred sport is too much.”
    Just a bit full of yourself, eh David?

  43. Florida Pirate says:

    Wow no comments about the Wall Street Journal….I mean Fox news….I mean WSJ…which one is which nowadays? The wall street journal has become the print version of Fox news, placating the new brainwashed demographic created and nursed by Fox news. But, I’m sidetracked. The point is the WSJ article is classic rhetoric, focusing on the typical conservative rants over higher education, all the rules and regulations, blah, blah, blah. They say “oh yes” this is bad at PSU, but its also bad everywhere else because of rules and regulations, ad infinitum. Yawn.

    Everytime I see those camera shots of incredulous PSU students and staff, I am bewildered. What in the heck did you think would happen. The place needed a serious enema and its happening. The school accepted the report, and accepted the NCAA actions…that is a pretty big point. The school, whatever constitues that, has said over and over that they messed up and want to get straight.

    By the way DK, in my town we have motorcycle related businesses that make 90% of the annual income during the two weeks of Bike Week and Biketoberfest, so there are instances of economies relying heavily on special events.

  44. Bizrow says:

    Personally I’d be happy if NH added something to the bench, IMO that is about all he’s going to be able to do.

    And I’m fine with that, NH as many have stated is not one to roll the dice and go for today.

    Hope but expect, but you never know.

    Jandy, hang in there fair lady

  45. The Gunner says:

    @ Brad – #34

    NH is quite the talker, many times I feel like it is double talk. Personally, I think he likes to hear the sound of his voice especially when using certain buzzwords.

    However, he is a highly intelligent guy who knows he needs help in LF as well as the pitching staff. At this point, Presley is a decent 4th outfielder but we definitely need more. I understand Victorino bruised his elbow last night but it is not serious. I really think Victorino is their man for LF at this point. From a pitching standpoint, NH will obtain some journeyman pitcher and hope for the best – there are several choices out there.

    Is Cincinnati ever going to lose a game again????

  46. JohninOshkosh says:

    I went to the Twin Cities last weekend. I survived a tortuous trip to the Mall of America! Anyways, you couldn’t swing a dead cat without hitting someone in a Zach Parise sweater. That is definitely a town that is excited about having Parise and Suter. Not sure the Pens ever stood a chance with a motivated FO like the Wild.

    Very interesting set of probables for tonight’s game: Maholm (8-6) vs McDonald (10-3). Can’t wait.

  47. Jandy says:

    Biz, I’m hangin loose, man…thanks :)

  48. NMR says:

    Excellent read, Jandy. Thanks for providing.

    Still don’t understand how anyone can believe Emmert or the NCAA are now tough or that this signifies they now mean business.

  49. Bizrow says:

    Sign in lunatics, if you don’t see your current residence on the list below, please add a post as to where you are currently residing, checking in from

    Dejan’s Lunatic Nation – at the Trib,
    Arizona – Tucson, Chandler, Phoenix, Sunnyslope
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    217 locations represented in the blog,
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    Two planets, at least confirmed
    7/24/2012 9:55 AM


    Jandy: Nash is not overrated. Part of the issue is the limited-movement clause Nash had with Columbus, whereby Nash could dictate which teams he would agree to be traded to. The other issue is GM Scott Howson’s approach: he chose quantity over quality in terms of return. Regardless, I think Howson and his staff’s assessment of the talent they got back in the deal is optimistic at best. Depth players on any other lineup, but the potential to play a bigger role in Columbus. No real impact players, which is going to hurt them in so many ways.

    Whatever the case, both the Flyers and the NYR have made bold moves to improve their team this Summer. I am not faulting Shero’s patience, but moving (sorry, dumping) Michalek to shed salary is never going to make sense unless the Pens are able to acquire another big name defenseman before the season begins. I was impressed with what I saw from Despres and I think he’s ready, but I fear he may be relied on for much more minutes than originally anticipated unless Martin or Niskanen proves to be a solid partner for Letang.

  51. Dan1283 says:

    “3.Boise Bucco
    July 24th, 2012 – 2:11 am It just sucks to think that between any one of them–JoePa, Spanier, Curley or Schultz–if any of them had just gone to the cops with this…”

    That’s how you know this was an institutional, cultural problem. The top administrators were 4/4 in covering it up. They thought they were too powerful. That’s why punishing jus these four guys isn’t and wasn’t enough – you could have exchanged them with many others at that place and it would’ve happened the same way. Think of the difference between this and when Jeff Long quickly and decisively got rid of an extremely popular Bobby Petrino down in Arkansas. They’re different situations, sure, but that culture didn’t exist even at football-mad Arkansas.

    I think this will fix it and PSU will come out of thise a better place to go to school, work, play sports, whatever. The grand experiment is over. It was a failure. Mainly because Joe Paterno failed everyone.

  52. JohninOshkosh says:


    Don’t know if you caught this on the PSU thread yesterday, but Thule, Greenland posted as a location. Pretty cool-Greenland.

  53. Maine_maddog says:

    @ Florida Pirate – you’re right on with the WSJ article. Honestly, moralizing from Rupert Murdoch’s speechwriter?

    On a related note, I find it disturbing that the economic impact of the NCAA’s penalty is even being discussed. If the local economy is so dependent on the labor of so-called student athletes, then maybe it should become more diversified – you know, with like casinos or gas wells. Or Division I hockey!!

  54. Dan1283 says:

    I think anyone who criticizes the students for anything including their reactions or surprise is being too harsh. They’re kids. At last this time they didn’t riot. That was actually a time to criticize.

  55. LuckyNKentucky says:

    MLB Trade Rumors says the Phils are anxious to move Hunter Pence, who is under team control through 2013. He’s hit over 20 homers 4 straight seasons and has 17 with 57 RBI’s already this season, albeit in band box stadia, but he can hit to the opposite field for HR’s, also. We missed on him last year. Neal needs to go and get him now, before the Yankees grab him. I’d take him over renting Victorino, although Victorino would be a great help now, too. Presley can go to #4 and send Gorkys back out until he learns to hit.

  56. Bizrow says:

    Thanks John, Thule Greenland will be added tonight. I’d bet the poster is in the service, double bonus coupons for that one ;-) (sorry Drew…)

    IMO Phils will want the proverbial arm and leg for Pence

  57. JohninOshkosh says:

    Admittedly a wonderful talent, but I hope the Pirates do not pursue Hanley Ramirez. Never cared for his propensity to dog it at times or his overall approach to being a professional. I think he would be a headache.

  58. Drew71 says:


  59. JMB says:

    Pence would be awesome.

    Nutting would have to approve a $70-75MM payroll for 2013. The fans are coming out, so it seems reasonable to me.

    However, it will still probably take Jamo & Grossman (two top 100 prospects) to get Pence based on what the Phils gave up for him last season.

  60. LuckyNKentucky says:


    You’re probably right. They gave up an arm and leg or two to get him. We have some arms to spare. (Not the 3 young ones but there are plenty in our system). Don’t know about legs.

  61. LuckyNKentucky says:


    Agree with you on Ramirez. I’d rather have Barmes than a head case like Hanley.

  62. steelercrazy says:

    Dejan, from what I understand, a vacated win only removes the W from the win column, it does not equate a loss. Penn State’s 9-4 record in 2011 officially becomes 0-4. The records of the teams that lost to Penn State that year do not change, only the PSU win is removed from the Nittany Lions’ record.

  63. The Gunner says:

    @ LuckyNKentucky – #51


    I like the idea of Hunter Pence being a Bucco, the price will be too high for NH and the Yankees will most likely spend spend spend. However, Victorino is a more realistic choice for NH.

    Anything is better than what we have (except for the guy I hate)

  64. Brenden says:

    DK – Didn’t see a response from Ryan, so here’s my breakdown:

    Friday – Take vacation day for work, arrive in State College Around Noon. Check into hotel (Penn Stater Hotel, appx $350 for the weekend). Head downtown to Cafe 210 for Lunch and Drinks. My wife and I usually spend around $50 there. Walk around a, maybe buy a shirt or hat at one of the stores. Dinner, usually at The Tavern ($75 or so with wine). Go to some bar downtown, depending on classiness of place, spend anywhere from 15-50. Cab ride to Hotel ($10).

    Saturday – Head to wal-mart for tailgate supplies and food ($30). Go to Stadium. For noon game, get there around 9:30, for 3:30, 11:00, for 7:00, noon. Tailgate. After non-night games, head back downtown or stay in Hotel for drinks (15-50) with possible cab to Hotel ($10).

    Sunday – Grab breakfast at The Waffle Shop ($12). Head home.

    So my wife and I easily put $500 into the local economy (non-Penn State). We have season tickets, and usually make it to about 3/4 of the game. I’m not sure where our expenditures fall in the spectrum, but I’m certain we’re not abnormal. While there are those who just come up for the day, go to the game, and leave – there are also those that purchase ‘Fall Homes’ in the area and live in State College during football season.

    Just one example.

  65. LuckyNKentucky says:


    You’re very right. He’s a less talented Hanley Ramirez that plays the outfield. Couldn’t agree with you more. I still think Neal needs to at least kick the tires on Pence. His average is down a bit at .268, but what an addition he would be. Then, maybe sign him long term after next season. You know the old saying, “you have to spend money to get money”. We may have to spend some players to get one here. Somebody up above said it was short-sighted to want to win now. We are winning and upgrades can’t do anything but help, now and long-term.

  66. Leefoo says:

    Dejan….loved the “What happens to the 2010 game between the Nittany Lions and Ohio State that both schools now have been forced to vacate?

    No, seriously, what is that, two losses?” line.

    I agree with the sanctions, but how can you seriously remove wins? Stupid.

    PSU Foo


  67. Jandy says:

    NMR, I’m still sick over this entire mess, and this just punishes more innocent people with the way the NCAA handled it. I’m not saying PSU shouldn’t be punished, just that this doesn’t help nor make things any better.

    RELENTLESS, I’ve read many articles that pointed out that Nash is over-rated. He isn’t a franchise star (which was what Columbus made him) but he is a very good player. No where in Crosby or Malkin’s league, however. No way the Pens would over-pay for him nor give up too much for him.

    Now Drew, don’t be sad, I still love you !

  68. NMR says:

    It truly takes the faith of a preacher to ever entertain the idea of Bob Nutting signing Hunter Pence long term.

  69. NMR says:


    I agree with you. I also find it fascinating that people such as Dejan don’t think that forcing a teenager to uproot his life, leave a school and team he committed his heart to along with friends, just for the opportunity to transfer a punishment. You’re thinking about yourself, not others, if you believe that.

    DK: Apparently, the young men themselves aren’t exactly agonizing over it.

  70. SeanAY says:

    I’d be a fan of the Pirates looking to add starting pitching help…I think McDonald’s start tonight will be a big indicator of whether that need is desperate or simply a concern.

    Since Miami is looking to trade anything and anyone not nailed to the ground, maybe the Pirates could put something together for Josh Johnson. Wouldn’t mind having him at the top of my rotation, even if he isn’t having his best year. You’d have control of him for next year, too, so it wouldn’t be a huge deal to give away someone of some value.

    On a smaller scale deal, Randy Choate has been so nasty against lefties he should be thrown in jail. Opponent lefties have a .383 OPS against him; that’s lefty-on-lefty crime. He would probably be available on the cheap because he’s a rental.

    The Pirates desperately need a better leadoff hitter, though, so they could at least move the mayor of Gritty McHustletown, USA (Alex Presley) to the bench.

  71. LuckyNKentucky says:

    Thanks for that, NMR. I receive it. And you’re right, as per usual.

  72. Naterosboro says:

    “I agree with the sanctions, but how can you seriously remove wins?”

    I was wondering that too. In our Jr. American Legion league this summer two teams had to be removed for rule violations, so it was as if those games were never played. Our team had gone 1-3 against those teams, so while we lost a W, we also got to get rid of 3 Ls.

    Is that how it works? Like the games were never played?

    This is a bit kooky.

  73. Naterosboro says:

    “the mayor of Gritty McHustletown, USA”


    Love that description. I’ll be applying it to all scrappy players from now on. Would David Eckstein be considered like the “George Washington” of Gritty McHustletown, USA?

    Your royalty check is in the mail ;-)

  74. Justin says:

    Dear Penn State Fans,

    Please stop! Please stop using ridiculous arguments to prove a point that just cannot be proved! Please stop commenting on the school that you love and let the realization set in that it will not be the same school that you remember it being in your grand old days as students. It’s gone, and because of this you are going through a grieving period. Accept that time to grieve and use it to find ways to cope with your grief, but please stop associating yourselves with asinine arguments about who is really responsible and straddling the fence between blaming the victims and blaming the system.

    The only people you should be angry with are the people from your university who betrayed you and betrayed your faith in an institution that lived in the hypocrisy of a motto of “win with honor”. Jerry Sandusky first and foremost is the person who all of your vitriol should be aimed at, not the NCAA, not the Governor, not the Big Ten. Additionally, even though he is the “sainted one’ you should be angry with Joe Paterno, he betrayed you as well, he knew and even if you don’t believe he knew, he suspected there was a problem with his former defensive coordinator and he did nothing to stop him. Because Joe Paterno didn’t want to embarrass him? Seriously?! He didn’t want to embarrass a pedophile? That in of itself is why Joe Paterno should have retired decades ago, he had no clue how life outside of his football dynasty worked, and his family and staff facilitated in sheltering him. You should be angry at the administration, Spanier, Curley, Schultz, these are the people that betrayed you, these are the people that broke your dreams of Penn State being an example of fidelity and true football greatness, stop trying to find others to blame, just grieve.

    The NCAA hit your school with a heavy penalty that will affect the university for years, stop complaining about it and accept it, it is not as important as the victims! The penalties are not fair to the current students at Penn State and that may be true, but there was no other way to show that there has to be something more important than football. If it where up to me I would have shut down all of the school’s athletic programs, because they seem to be more important than being a decent human being and they facilitate the deification of the university’s athletic leaders. Additionally, the statue had to come down. Stop hugging it and crying because the beloved “JoePa” will not be there forever in metal, again he knowingly allowed a pedophile to roam “his” campus for years after learning he was a problem. If you want to feel sorry for someone, stop feeling sorry for yourselves and think about the abuse the kids in the current athletic programs are going to go through when they visit other schools for games, matches and tournaments. If you think all fans are going to be kind to these kids you are obviously kidding yourselves. There is going to be incredible heckling, jokes, and probably stadium wide chants, these kids don’t deserve this.

    You are right when you say that the penalties are not fair to the current students, they should have been worse so these kids are not subject to the verbal and possible physical abuse that is destined to come their way because your university failed them, you and most importantly the victims of a man who should have been stopped years ago but the men in charge didn’t want to embarrass the program. Shame on them! I implore you once again; please work through your grief before you consider blaming anyone but Penn State University. Grieving is a process, please let it work.

  75. Curt says:

    Let me add this to the mix.
    To me the offense has over-achieved this season. Teams will pitch around Cutch eventually, so where is our other legit threat in the lineup? Sure Walker and Pedro have their moments, but we need another bat to protect Cutch and keep pitchers honest.

    To the whole idea let’s not mortgage away the future idea. How many times in the past 20 years have we heard about building our minors or the can’t miss prospects we just can’t bear to part with?!?
    Seriously, we all heard the whole notion last year was not the time to go for it and yet we are hearing that familiar stuff again this year. IF this year is “not the year” then when will it ever be that time? The fans have shown up consistently and the buzz is there, so keep this thing going, make a trade!
    If we pick at the leftovers again this year, it looks like we took the cheap route again! Sorry to say it, but guys are out there with some contract control, just need to take on some payroll.

  76. SeanAY says:


    David Eckstein is in fact the George Washington of Gritty McHustletown, USA.

    Still trying to figure out where Darin Erstad fits into the mix. He was a punter at Nebraska, you know! Which must have been the reason he kept getting jobs in MLB, considering the fact he had an OPS over .750 exactly zero times in his final nine seasons in the league.

    None! Zilch! And he made $45 million dollars for those years!

    Can anyone think of any more recent residents of Gritty McHustletown, USA?

  77. The Gunner says:

    @ LuckyNKentucky – #66

    Much less talented is a much kinder way to say it about that guy I hate. I’m afraid Pence is not destined for the ‘burgh. I hope I am wrong – I usually am but in this case, I’ll probably be right.

    I hope the Bucs pound Maholm tonight; maybe he’ll serve a few up (a la Denny McLain) to help Neal, Pedro and the rest of his old Bucco buddies.

  78. DemonDachshund says:

    @SeanAY –

    No, but I hear that Jose Tabata is on milk cartons there.

  79. NMR says:

    Hope you found the intended humor in that, Lucky. I believe the Pirates payroll will increase, but only incrementally due to arbitration and Cutchs contract. I personally can’t hold my breath on any $10m+ players, regardless of who tells me Nutting is no longer cheap.


    Good to see you around. I love your Choate trade, but I’d be less excited about the starting pitching market. I don’t see much middle ground between an improvement on Correia/Bedard and aces out there right now.

    Speaking of, I’d love to hear more on Bedard. Searage is a flat out stud if this continues.

  80. JohninOshkosh says:


    Maybe Tony Campana of the Cubs. Dude has 41 hits and probably 30 of them are bunt singles. Plus he is listed at 5.8 but I think that is being generous.

  81. SeanAY says:


    You as well. And you’re probably right about the starting pitching market, it’s definitely something that would require a significant investment if you wanted to get an improvement on what they already have. That’s why I suggested Johnson; it would probably cost an arm and a leg, but he’s an ace-caliber guy that you would have control of for another year, as opposed to a guy like Hamels, Greinke, et al.

    My concern with him is injury history; missed much of last year with the shoulder injury, and hasn’t quite been himself this year. Then again, he’s been hot of late; since getting shelled on May 4, lasting just 2.2 IP, he’s got an ERA of 3.26.

    The flip side to THAT coin, is that three of his last four starts have been poor. But the last one was dynamite.

    I don’t know what it would take to get him, but he would be the kind of starting pitcher I would covet in this situation.

  82. MrB says:

    DK: You’d think I’d have to have some kind — any kind — of history with Penn State to have bias, right? My bio’s over there to the right. See for yourself.

    Nice try, but nearly everyone born and raised in western PA (especially Pittsburgh and the surrounding area) grows up either loving or despising Penn State. It’s a part of “the culture” inherent to the geographic area.

    On this issue from start to finish your objectivity (non-bias) has been as authentic as a three-dollar bill.

    DK: Per usual in your at-least-once-weekly drive-by cheap shots, you are wrong. You can’t begin to imagine how little college athletics even crossed my mind for the dominant portion of my life, much less specific universities. My focus forever and ever has been all three of the pro sports teams.

  83. Curt says:

    Being a conservative GM

    My targets for OF:
    Victorino and then Span

    My target for SS:
    Stephen Drew

  84. cmat0829 says:

    My two cents:

    1) PENN STATE…. just as Bill O’Brien put it today on the Dan Patrick radio show, adroitly hosted by Bonnie Bernstein, you “can’t live in the past and you have to go forward, play by the rules we have, and move on”. Great advice to all of the folks posting with passion on the blog…. it is what it is. Hard to see anyone who is not a diehard Penn St fan disagreeing with any level of energy over the punishment. Yes, current players get punished, but where was the outcry over Matt Barkley and his teammates not being able to play in the Rose Bowl or compete for a national championship last year…while Pete Carroll socked away millions in Seattle and Reggie Bush galloped weekly for the ‘Fins?

    2) PIRATES and the trading deadline…. Neal will make some additions, there can be no doubt. What he says today or yesterday or tomorrow will have no bearing on the moves he makes. Whether he says ” the Pirates WILL make a trade, we WILL trade our top prospects, so come and get ‘em” or “we don’t have to do anything, the prices are too high” or something in between, he will make a trade or two and we can evaluate it at that point.

    There is always a lot of jockeying done around this time… and many trades are the quiet ones where there are no incessant rumors on twitter….did Rosenthal, Heyman, Morosi and company have the Ichiro to Yankees rumor? Maybe I missed it.

    All of that said, as a die-hard Pirates fan, I implore the FO to do what it takes to add an OF with some speed who can handle at or near the top of the order; a veteran starting pitcher to bolster the rotation; a shut-down lefty on lefty reliever; and possibly a veteran utility infielder or shortstop.

  85. radio wave says:

    I echo previous posts, JAL, great song choice this morning.
    Yes my Rangers got Nash, and in a way, that makes me cringe.
    Most seasons it’s the usual four B’s for the Rangers;
    Big Money
    Big name signings
    Big expectations
    Big disapointment in april
    Prior to last season none of that existed, and they had their best record in years.
    So now it’s back to the four B’s again.

    And as dead as the Astros have been for the last month, let’s hope they don’t awaken this weekend.

  86. pirate needs, not in any order, corner outfielder(or 2), shortstop, first base, catcher, starting pitcher. Bullpen is good(knock on wood). How is this team over 500?

  87. NMR says:

    I’ve had a man-crush on Johnson, SeanAY. I LOVE his style of pitching. Don’t get ny hopes up.


    You’ve really never heard anyone complain about the NCAAs method of sanctioning current teams for past transgressions? You must not pay attention to college football much. I think you can figure out why the USC case got a little less press I’m a Western PA newspaper blog.

  88. Jandy says:

    “DK: Apparently, the young men themselves aren’t exactly agonizing over it.”

    C’mon DK, and how would you know that? They’re guys, they’re not going to complain, not in public, for sure. They will show solidarity, including with O’Brien keeping a stiff upper lip.

    I’m not trying to pick a fight, just asking you to be real. No way you can say those young men aren’t upset.

    I want to make this clear: In no way am I a Penn State fan, but nor do I hate them either. (Contrary to what MrB says) I do however feel this NCAA attempt to play God (much like Goodell) is ridiculously overdone. The wrong people are being hurt by this indictment. Those involved, Paterno – now dead – Spanier, Curley, Shultz -these three will be handled in a court of law (wow! Imagine the novelty!) and of course the perpetrator himself, Sandusky, who is in jail now.

    The NCAA has handled past indescretions terribly, and now they are venting their full rage on Penn State. How convenient.

  89. NMR says:

    I’m glad Dejan has a pulse on all the PSU players a day after the sanctions. That’s a lot of interviewing he must’ve done.

    DK: There are extensive and voluminous reports of specific players, quoting their high school coaches, including one in our paper. You know that.

  90. Arriba Wilver says:

    I just read Spanier’s letter to the Board. The question it left me with is I wonder if he is a sociopath?

  91. TBone says:


    Re: #50

    Wilmington, Delaware (via Level Green, Pennsylvania)

  92. JohninOshkosh says:

    The NCAA sanctions were appropriate and deserved. They went as far as they could to protect the innocent players by waiving the one year transfer rule. These players vetted several schools before picking PSU. They had several options and can exercise their second choice now if they so desire. Or they can stay at PSU and get a free degree-not too shabby. I went to four different schools before I finally got my degree. It wasn’t that big of a deal to uproot myself and go to a different school. All I had to do was pack my crappy Honda and drive. And I still had to pay for school.

    BTW, very few tears are shed for the families of criminal defendants sentenced to prison. Those innocent people are often losing family breadwinners and either a mother or father. Innocent taxpayers are on the hook to pay for the incarceration. All sanctions have collateral damage. It is the nature of the beast. And really post facto remedies are really the only thing we have to punish the wrongdoers.

  93. Arriba Wilver says:

    I agree with John about the sanctions and the collateral damage argument. I don’t think trying to minimize the effects on people, though, like DK did in his flip response in #70 to NMR and his challenge to the local businesses argument, advances the argument. My daughter teaches in the State College School District, and lives in State College, and her first question was, do we have to move. The answer’s no, but to try to minimize the effect this will have on others is kind of ridiculous. Arguing that it’s justified, or that it pales in comparison to the damage done to the victims is one thing. But you don’t have to minimize or ignore the reality of the effects if you truly think the punishment is just. Like I said, I think the NCAA got this one right, and I think they did it with their eyes open.

  94. NMR says:


    Isn’t it a known fact that pedophiles often times were abuses as children themselves?

    In light of Spanier acknowledging he was abused himself, your answer to why he could somehow ignore the signs of Sanduskys perversion might be similarly explained.

  95. NMR says:

    Victim 4 has come out and expressed anger with the NCAA and PSU for something I’ve said all along.

    Why is nobody asking, let alone listening, to the victims?

    Ive said before that many people were using the victims to justify the punishment they personally saw fit. I, of course, was labeled a football loving cultist. I’d like to see you say that to Victim 4.

  96. Arriba Wilver says:

    NMR–I don’t really understand what you are saying, but if Spanier is a sociopath, the “acknowledgement” could be a total fabrication. Has he ever “acknowledged” it previously?. Read it, and read it in conjunction with the Freeh report, and the E-mails. It doesn’t quite fit.

  97. Jandy says:

    @ OshKosh and AW, and Dk as well, ~ I’m torn on the Penn State issue, very much so as you can tell by my posts. I don’t normally get this involved in something beyond my control. I agree the NCAA had to do something. I honestly don’t know what else it COULD have done, I just know this scenario is sickening. I feel it only makes the entire situation worse and cheapens it further.
    Ahhh crap, I need to just leave it alone for a while…

  98. Jandy says:

    and to lighten it up, have I surpassed my post quote for the day yet? ;)

  99. cmat0829 says:

    My point is that, much like Bill O’Brien opined today, you have to play with the rules as they are. The NCAA applying sanctions is not new; the way they did it here is not new; I can allow that they stretched a bit but also I support that given the unprecedented ugliness of this case. Why Penn State fans should feel slighted or expect that somehow NCAA sanctions wouldn’t impose upon current players and staff vs. some sort of magic time machine to go back in time and punish only those involved I don’t know.

    My opinion, and I don’t live or die Penn State or college football, is to do as Bill O’Brien implores….”move on, go forward”.

  100. Bizrow says:

    From MLB Trade Rumors

    Recently posted

    It sounds like Justin Upton isn’t going to be traded — at least not any time soon. Diamondbacks managing partner Ken Kendrick told Scott Bordow of the Arizona Republic that it’s a “reasonable assumption” that Upton will stay put for the rest of the season.

    “I think we’re better off with him on our team,” Kendrick said. “I this whole thing has gotten way more attention than it deserves.”

    Rumors and speculation have followed Upton for much of the past month, as the Diamondbacks publicly acknowledged their willingness to listen to trade offers for their 24-year-old right fielder. Kendrick, who expressed disappointment in Upton earlier this year, didn’t deny that the Diamondbacks could consider trade offers again after the season ends.

    Kendrick predicted Arizona won’t make a major trade in the week leading up to the July 31st non-waiver trade deadline. But he doesn’t expect GM Kevin Towers to be inactive. “I just wouldn’t expect anything dramatic,” Kendrick said.

  101. LuckyNKentucky says:


    Based on that Upton news, open those talks for Pence!


    Your quota was lifted.

  102. Jandy says:

    Lucky, all right! I Can still post then ;)

  103. NMR says:


    I’ve read all that you suggested. I really don’t know what a sociopath is defined as.

    Spanier very well may be lying about being abused. I don’t know.

    I’ve read many places that pedophiles have often been victims of abuse themselves. That even though one would think they would be least likely to commit the same crime, the opposite is true.

    I was simply suggesting that if he was abused, there could be a correlation.

  104. LuckyNKentucky says:


    You better post. Everybody on this blog is in love with you. Well, maybe not a couple, but, based on the above, you better stay on it. Let that work go! Drew owns a 1.7 billion dollar company and he still posts once in a while.

  105. NMR says:

    How embarassingly bad does John Harris miss the mark with his column today?

    “It may not help Sandusky’s victims sleep easier at night, but at least now they know they haven’t been forgotten.”

    No, John, they have been forgotten. Your blind assumption that they haven’t is proof.

  106. Boise Bucco says:

    Bahahaha… “How Andrew McCutchen Became A Star And Redeemed Two Decades Of Pittsburgh Jagoffery”

  107. Boise Bucco says:

    I honestly haven’t found a criticism of PSU that I’ve agreed with yet; I don’t think that one exists.

    It will really never matter, no matter how hard or how light the punishment is/was, it will never be enough/not enough. It doesn’t matter if they vacate ALL of the wins, fine them a Brazillian dollars, burn down the school, drop a nuke on State College, there are still gonna be some that call for more.

    At the same time, the NCAA could have not done anything, and there will be some that will say that just having PSU’s (and JoePa’s) name in the headlines is already too damaging. There’s just no winning this one.

    BO’B got it right…just gotta move forward, play the hand you’re dealt.

  108. Arriba Wilver says:

    I’ll say this, NMR, it doesn’t sound like he’s still unconditionally supporting Shultz and Curly. And his letter is full of blaming others for things he obviously was responsible for. That’s one of the characteristics of a sociopath.

  109. DemonDachshund says:

    My favorite part of the Cutch article that Boise linked above: He credits the contract he got for being a significant part of what he’s doing this year.

    Given all of the players who get a deal and then mail it in until their next contract year, how nice is it to see an athlete say that?

    How many guys, breaking out like this right after signing a deal like that, would be moping about how much money they effectively just lost?

    If I didn’t have a track record of players getting injured right after I get their jersey, I’d definitely have a McCutchen jersey. (Seriously considered getting a Barmes one though… But I can’t do that to someone who’s at least trying.)

  110. Bizrow says:

    @AW – I read the letter yesterday, IMO one of the strangest things I’ve read in quite a while.

    And that is saying a lot as I read most all posts here (including my own……)

  111. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    I hate being on a west coast schedule with an east coast blog sometimes……

    I’m late to the party, what’s shaking?

  112. Stennettorian says:

    Justin — Well said.

    Mr.B — DK is a columnist, not a reporter, so he isn’t paid to be objective but to give his opinion. You are free to agree or disagree (and the fact that so many of us react proves he is a good columnist) but expecting objectivity from a columnist is like expecting lunch from a piece of paper; that’s not its function.

    Bizrow — Please add Barrington, NJ to the list.

    DK: I appreciate the broader sentiment, but there’s still cause for objectivity, as I see it. I feel as if I have to go into any situation with an open mind before forming any view. That’s objectivity. From there, where the waters get muddied for some — and Mr. B doesn’t really count since he’s really only interested in the drive-by cheap shots — is that they see the opinion and think THAT’S how I went into it.

    I could list for you several examples this year alone of entering a situation thinking one thing and coming out with another based on learning.

  113. Jandy says:

    Hi Ryan, lots going down here today, as usual. Penn State, Pirates, hateful posters, you name it lol

  114. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    Did anybody catch the quotes of Bobby Bowden on taking over the FBS wins record?

    Awesome statement by him, he’s always been classy, even whenever he has been found to break rules…not necessarily his doing…….but either way, take a look.

  115. JohninOshkosh says:


    So far: DK great DK sucks; NCAA great NCAA sucks; Yes to this trade No to that trade
    Oh and most of us love Jandy and all of us think Cutch is great. Now you are up to date.

  116. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:


    I try to read some of the posts, but after awhile most tend to bore me.

    Especially the hateful ones, there’s no point in reading ingnorance.

  117. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    Thanks John

    Seems to sum it up.

    So what trades? I’m sure they make a lot of sense………like, Jose Tabata for Josh Hamilton.

  118. NMR says:

    Very good point, AW.

  119. Jandy says:

    OshKoshB’Gosh, wow, so now I’m in a league with Cutch?? Dayum, I rock!!!!

    Ryan, I hear you. But I’m an avid reader, so I try to read as much as I can. And hateful people suck :)

  120. LuckyNKentucky says:


    A couple players for Hunter Pence.

  121. SeanAY says:

    Tomlin extended through 2016!

  122. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    I think for most of the fair-weather fans in here, ya know, the regulars could probably agree that my main target has been Shane Victorino.

    I still say that he’s a great trade target for the Buccos. He can play LF, great defender and hit in the lead off spot.

    The starter situation is difficult. Which Corriea, Bedard shows up and what about the 3 lefties in Indy? To me, this is our least worry though I’d love to have the security.

  123. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    Hunter Pence?? NO, not for the cost….

  124. DemonDachshund says:

    @Ryan –

    How can you even think of giving up all of Tabata’s years of control for a rental like Hamilton? (ducks)

  125. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    Steve Blass in last night telecast even asked the question; Do they need to make a trade? Why mess with what’s going on?

    He did say, of course you always want to get better in a pennant race, but I don’t think there’s any bigger homer than Steve Blass…..His book is hilarious though.

  126. Jandy says:

    I like the idea of Victorino as a Bucco as well.

  127. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:


    Please tell me your kidding and are just adding to my sarcasm?

  128. DemonDachshund says:

    @Ryan –

    I thought my (ducks) made that clear.

  129. LuckyNKentucky says:


    Do you mean long-term cost or what we’d have to give up? Don’t forget, you’re in CA and things are more expensive there. I like Victorino, too, especially based on our current need, but Pence is a keeper, Shane a rental.

    I say Tabata for Josh Hamilton and that Cruz kid and maybe Elvis Andres, too.

  130. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    The Headley idea makes no sense to me at all….and a BIG THANK YOU to the Padres for extending Carlos Quentin. Good move for him, bad for Pads……

    They don’t seem to be very smart at this stage of the game………they’re sellers, they need an implosion, but an extensionl.

  131. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:


    Yes, long term losses. And YES things are WAAAAYYY more expensive here.

    Can the Pirates afford Pence next year? He has one more year of arbitration eligibility and is currently making 10.4. My guess is that price gets closer to 15 next year.

    We need a rental more than we need the debt. I love Pence, don’t get me wrong, but with Buccoeconomics it doesn’t make sense or match up.

  132. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:


    Just making sure……….

  133. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    Long term losses meaning the prospects that are given up too.

  134. LuckyNKentucky says:

    Has DK ever weighed in on Victorino or Pence or even the now, supposedly off-the-market Upton?

  135. Bizrow says:

    Anyone know if the lineup for tonight is out yet?

  136. CraigWilson'sRevenge says:

    @Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc)

    the whole san diego plan doesn’t make any sense. why would they both choose to extend Quentin and trade Headley. Headley has 3 years of control left and Quentin signed for 3 years.

    They might just be pulling a Littlefield. the classic half rebuild.

  137. LuckyNKentucky says:


    DK just Tweeted it. Should be on here soon. Sutton leading off.

  138. JRay3 says:

    @ Biz:

    Sutton, Walker, Cutch, Jones, McGehee, Alvarez, Barajas, Barmes, McDonald

  139. patrick(RI) says:

    Sometimes reading these posts is like listening to talking heads on Fox & CNN, with utterances such as “this is no time to argue gun control.” What I have always liked about DK is that he paints wonderfully complete accounts and “reviews,” almost universally supported or referenced. Yeah, the town will suffer and some players will suffer (I suspect only the few who weren’t attracted by the $), but the price paid is the cost of over-the-top fealty to the football god. I will stop before I sound too much like a hack from Fox, only adding, imho, DK is the best sportswriter of our era.

  140. Rich says:

    Long time reader, first time poster…………and as I see that both North Wales and Lansdale are listed as blog following locations I’m surprised someone else hasn’t beat me to it…but I don’t think adding Victorino does much for the Bucs. He’s pretty much Jose Tabata with age. I know he would only be a rental, but folks in philly have had it with him. He doesn’t hustle or seem to take the game very seriously and I don’t think he would fit in well with the team dynamic. Maybe it’s because things were too easy for too long in philly and now that they aren’t in a playoff race he’s quit. I guess a move to a contender will change his attitude but it seems like he’s always been that way a bit. Who would have thought at the beginning of the season that a trade between the Pirates and Phils would have the MLB talent going westward and the thoughts that a player might get a spark by getting out of philly and arriving in Pittsburgh

  141. Jandy says:

    patrick, I agree, DK is a great sports columnist. He didn’t win that award for being mediocre! Even when I disagree with him, I still come back here because nobody does it better.

  142. Jandy says:

    OK guys, gotta go see the friendly neighborhood dentist. yuck. Catch you all later.
    Go Bucs!

  143. JRay3 says:

    From Rob Biertempfel:

    #PIrates OF Jose Tabata “looks totally checked-out” in minors, Triple-A Indy broadcaster Will Flemming told TribLiveRadio today: “Not only has he not been not sharp offensively, but his effort on defense at times has been totally appalling. Tabata has cost the Indians games and runs with just a complete lack of effort, getting after baseballs and with throws.”

    Wow when the AAA broadcaster is even throwing you under the bus you know it is bad. Just don’t get it with Tabata, as I have always felt he could be one of the “future” long-term pieces. With reports like this you have to wonder how long a leash the team will give him.

  144. NMR says:

    -years of control

    Three things I think all Pirates fans want in a trade. But is this realistic for the franchise?

    We all know any player meeting those criteria would require a huge prospect package. Not just one stud, but at least two, plus other players the Pirates would likely need to contribute at a lesser role, such as relievers/back of rotation starters.

    On top of that, any player meeting those criteria would also require huge (by Pirate standards) salary demands, upwards of $10m. That number would likely take up the majority of the free agent budget in the following seasons.

    Understanding that there is always the risk in the trading player performing, are the possible legacy costs of the trade really worth it?

    Personally, I think I’m actually leaning towards prefering rental players at deadline and leaving it the responsibility of the GM to find the Cody Ross’s of the world in the off season.

  145. K. PenFan says:

    Initially, as a Pittsburgh panther fan, I was almost happy with the additional football punishment on Penn State. But after thinking about it with a more open mind, I have a problem with the NCAA punishment. What is the purpose of the punishment? How does it help the victims of sex abuse that Penn State can’t participate in bowl games? Seems like it is more damaging to the kids at Penn State than the management failure. Also re-confirms the idea that football is larger than the university but punishing the football more? Or am I wrong?

    I like the idea of the guy there to monitor the progress of the program. Instead of taking away the bowl games, I’d make a rule to take a certain percentage for the fund depending on Penn States progress in fixing the management problem.

    On an unrelated note, kinda agree with vacating the wins. But, only because I think Paterno should have stepped down 15 yrs ago.

  146. Boise Bucco says:

    And what’s hard with Tabata is, you know that if the Bucs really do get fed up with his attitude and release him, he’s just gonna turn around and turn into another Jose Bautista and we’re gonna roast the GM. They’re really in a no-win situation here. Just gotta find a way to motivate him.

  147. Boise Bucco says:

    Wonder if the Bucs could afford Hanley Ramirez…

    just sayin!

  148. Clive says:

    I wonder if the NCAA is familiar with the Duke Lacrosse team. If Penn State never plays another down of football, I won’t care. But I do not trust the NCAA. It is a corrupt organization and their handling of this smacks of opportunism.

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