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Wakeup Call: Tower of torture

By Dejan Kovacevic | Trib Total Media

LONDON — Brief and to the Point …

>> The Tuesday column goes after my new friends at NBC for their horse-and-buggy approach to covering these Olympics. I don’t get to see what they’re doing, obviously, but I’m aware of the ridiculous delays.

Moreover, I’m seeing at least a little of what the BBC is doing here, and it’s just outstanding. So professional. So in-depth. And yes, so live. You’d love it.

>> If you’ve never visited Tower of London, know in advance it’s not for the faint of heart. Once you finish seeing the first torture chamber and think it’s pretty neat, you move on to the next room where they’d rip people’s limbs apart to the next where … you get the idea.

The fortress itself is an amazing structure, proudly preserved and efficiently run. There are imitation Beefeaters and other re-enactors that lighten things up a little, as well as numerous other excellent displays.

Just be prepared to have your faith in 15th century civilization shaken a little.

>> Been pounding this drum since early May, and today’s not the day to stop: The Pirates need to get a bat by the deadline today, or management will have let this team down.

Here’s why.

Chances like this cannot be wasted. Not now, not ever.

No excuses. Get it done. Corner outfield or first base. Either works.

Comments

  1. Playoffs by 2012 says:

    No excuses. Get it done.

    Can’t say it any better, so I won’t.

  2. Eric Bowser says:

    Pirates trade RHP Brad Lincoln to Toronto for 1B Travis Snider

    Snider was available for FREE on waivers and now Pirates move a valuable trade asset for him. Strange roster management in MLB these days.

    I guess this means Marte is the leadoff hitter with Jones in RF.

  3. Pig Legs Robinson says:

    Strange.
    I like Snider, just don’t think it’s the last move.
    Seems like they could have gotten more for Lincoln.
    No question about it though, Snider has power.
    Only 24 years old, could bloom into a much better hitter than we’ve seen from him.
    Was kind of learning the major league on the fly last couple years.

  4. Reagan's Dad says:

    Neal Huntington should NOT be allowed to make trades. I feel kind of silly getting worked up at 1 AM over a middle reliever, but why give up on Lincoln? OK, so he won’t be a starter nor live up to being the #4 overall pick. But he was becoming lights out as a late inning reliever. I could see him moving into the 8th inning role and possibly closing in the future. What a waste of an asset.

  5. Pig Legs Robinson says:

    I don’t recall Snider being available for free on waivers. Are you sure that isn’t Adam Lind you are thinking of?

  6. Eric Bowser says:

    Pirates lineup is really heavy in the middle with lefty bats

    1. Marte, LF
    2. Walker, 2B
    3. McCutchen, CF
    4. Jones, 1B
    5. Snider, RF
    6. Alvarez, 3B
    7. Barajas/McKenry, C
    8. Barmes

  7. Eric Bowser says:

    You are right, it was Adam Lind.

  8. Reagan's Dad says:

    Is Snider any better or different than another young, lefty, power hitting first baseman already in the system. A guy named Jeff Clement?

  9. Pig Legs Robinson says:

    Also, Snider is not a first baseman, at least that I’m aware of. I thought he was an outfielder. I suppose he could probably play first, but why move him?

  10. Playoffs by 2012 says:

    Blue Jays fans are reacting like they got “hosed” in this trade. Me thinks Bryan Morris becomes the new Brad Lincoln now.

  11. Pig Legs Robinson says:

    Well, I’m going to bed, got to get up for work in 4 hours.
    I like the trade, but then I love power hitters.
    We’ll get by without Lincoln.

  12. Eric Bowser says:

    I thought Snider was a 1B/corner OF coming up… at this point, put him in RF and see what happens. Can’t be any worse than McGehee.

  13. Eric Bowser says:

    agreed, Bryan Morris should be getting the promotion.

    Send down Mercer to AAA

  14. Playoffs by 2012 says:

    Travis Snider can become our Joey Bats reclamation project!!

  15. JRay3 says:

    Travis Snider was rated # 6 prospect by Baseball America pre 2009. This year in AAA has a line of .335, .423, .598, 1.021 in 56 games.

    High upside guy if he reaches his potential. Not sure with the recall of Marte if having two guys with limited MLB AB’s can be counted on during a pennant run.

    Appears he is a player that will be under control for four years so from that standpoint a good get. Give NH credit he has pieced together a bullpen but Lincoln does create a little void. Bryan Morris is a name to keep an eye on for somewhere in the future for that type role Lincoln was filling.

    Will be interesting to see if anything else transpires.

  16. PGH2WPB says:

    Yes, Snider is an outfielder. And why get worked up over a losing a middle reliever? Yes, Lincoln has been effective but Snider is a lefty with power potential. I think this will end up being a steal for the Pirates in the long run. Hopefully he can contribute immediately of course. Maybe NH not done.

  17. Eric Bowser says:

    Huntington quoted as saying the team still has some irons in the fire.

  18. Eric Bowser says:

    Rob Biertempfel says Snider could bat second in the lineup, not a fan of Walker sliding down in fifth spot.

  19. DMFH says:

    Reagan’s Dad, I’m with you on Jeff Clement. He’s been murdering AAA all year. I’d say bring him up at least as a bench guy and give him a shot.

  20. Ed says:

    Definitely did not see this one coming. I guess time will tell.

    Lots of potential with Snider but would still like to see an experienced bat or two added for the bench.

  21. Boise Bucco says:

    Man…was really hoping for Hunter Pence…who in the world is Travis Snider?

    14-4, now no more Brad Lincoln…

    zero AJ Burnett Fistpumps today…

  22. Ryan76 says:

    Really tired of hearing about tape delays…both sides need to stop complaining. It’s tired already.

  23. twentytwo22 says:

    I don’t get it. If winning doesn’t matter I can see giving an unproven player a chance. But the Pirates are trying to win now. Why put a guy who may or may not be good into the lineup with guaranteed playing time? It’s a conflicting message to the team. Are you trying to win now or build for the future with players in diapers at the major league level.

  24. Boise Bucco says:

    Well, I guess no more Presley in the lineup is better than nothing. I really liked the guy, and I was really hoping that he would turn it around this year, but he just couldn’t turn all his enthusiasm into hits.

    I just can’t keep from feeling that Lincoln’s gonna end up being a great pitcher for Toronto. The way he pitched out of the bullpen, and that last start he had before he went back to relief, he was so dominant…it seemed like he was just one step away from being a really good starter. Feels like the Bucs might have missed out on a good one with him. Either way, best of luck to him, glad he won’t be burning us over in the AL East.

    I’ll find a way to talk myself into this trade by tomorrow, I’m sure. Haha maybe Snider will come in and torch the Scrubbies and talk us ALL into it!

  25. twentytwo22 says:

    If you think a young player like Snider feels pressure to succeed at the major league level it gets multiplied when he’s transplanted into the Pirates’ clubhouse and 20 guys are looking at him thinking ‘Who the hell are you? You gonna help us win?’ This guy had a hard time breaking in on Toronto. He’s never been under the microscope like this.

    Starling Marte is a different case. He’s a Pirate and has been brought up as one of their own. He was minor league teammates of a few of them. McCutchen tweeted about him in Spring Training. He has a lot more credibility in the eyes of the Pirates main players in the clubhouse than Snider.

    I don’t know what else is up. I hope something else is up for this to make sense. If not, I suggest to Snider that he make a good first impression. This ‘We’re experimenting with rookies while trying to win the division?’ could be the death spiral excuse.

    This could go very badly.

  26. twentytwo22 says:

    It’s like it’s 2008 again and I have to listen to prospect worshippers tell me how excited they are and how great Andy LaRoche, Jose Tabata, and Brandon Moss are gonna be. I’m cursed to have to follow a baseball team and wait for a day that is just around the corner but it doesn’t ever ^YT%%EEEW comes.

    I hold this truth to be self-evident, 99% of prospects turn into interchangeable piles of excrement.

  27. Mike C. says:

    all “prospects” are a gamble, but this one seems like a big gamble to me.
    could turn into Pedro II, could turn
    Usually I’d like trades like this, especially middle relievers for high upside guys, but not sure if the timing is best.
    Still, an upgrade from Presley imo.
    Interesting that BlueBirdBanter, the SBNation page for the Jays, seemed to nearly collectively leap off a bridge at the news of this trade.

    an article about the trade.
    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/did-alex-anthopolous-just-make-a-bad-trade/

  28. Mike C. says:

    a question to the gallery :
    Whether you agree with this trade or not
    If Toronto had asked for Joel Hanrahan OR Lincoln, who would you have given up for Snider?
    Hanrahan has proven he’s an All-Star closer but is 2nd-Year Arb Eligible and a Free Agent in 2014.
    Lincoln is younger and a FA 2018.

    personally I’d keep Lincoln with his longer control years, but since Hammy has a much higher trade value, i’d have asked for more than Snider for Hammy.

  29. Mike C. says:

    sorry for posting again, but here’s a thought
    If Snider is even descent, McGehee doesn’t have to start vs a RHP ever again the rest of the year.
    I think that’s a silver lining if there ever was one.

    … though not sure what our lineup will look like vs LHPs

  30. Thundercrack says:

    Just read about the trade and not quite sure how I feel about it. My first reaction is that I don’t like it because I like Lincoln a lot. But I was also tired of seeing Alex Presley out there.

  31. Drew71 says:

    As my wife would say: this is premature.

    I’ll wait until the deadline and, if there are other deals, judge them together.

  32. Curt says:

    How many years of control to the Pirates have with the newly acquired Snider?

    He is only 24yrs. old. Has power potential.

    I will wait until later today to see what else they do, but this is a good start.

  33. Dave says:

    Wouldn’t shortstop be a better acquisition instead of a corner OF/1B? I mean it’s not like Barmes is hitting like Arod. Barmes might not even be the best SS on our team right now.

  34. NMR says:

    -Quite the display put on between midnight and 4am…

    “Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.”

    -Love the bits and pieces of London culture coming across, DK. Keep it up.

  35. Milo Hamilton says:

    Heck, they could have just brought up Jeff Clement for free. Same guy. I was OK with trading Lincoln, but for an established major leaguer. If they turned down Victorino for Lincoln and then did this, you’re kidding, right ? If I hear years of control one more time, I’m gonna puke. Somebody help me here, are they buying or selling ?

    OK, I feel better now, Actually I don’t.

  36. JAL says:

    JAL’s Don’t let me be Misunderstood Morning Links

    GENERAL DAILY UPDATED BASEBALL SITES

    1- MLB Transactions

    http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/transactions

    2-MLB Trade Rumors-Pirates

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/pittsburgh_pirates/

    3 Go Buccos- Pirate News (from external sources)

    http://gobuccos.com/pittsburgh-pirate-news/

    PIRATE BLOGS

    4—Pirates Prospects

    Pirates Notebook: Bedard Is the Latest Starter to Struggle; Cruz Working His Way Back

    http://www.piratesprospects.com/2012/07/pirates-notebook-bedard-is-the-latest-starter-to-struggle-cruz-working-his-way-back.html

    Victor Black Dominating With an Upper 90s Fastball and Plus Slider

    http://www.piratesprospects.com/2012/07/victor-black-dominating-with-an-upper-90s-fastball-and-plus-slider.html

    Prospect Watch: Taillon and Heredia Pitch Well, Osuna and Garcia Homer

    http://www.piratesprospects.com/2012/07/prospect-watch-taillon-and-heredia-pitch-well-osuna-and-garcia-homer.html

    Defense Backs Up VandenHurk For Indians’ Win

    http://www.piratesprospects.com/2012/07/defense-backs-up-vandenhurk-for-indians-win.html

    First Pitch: Why I Like the Travis Snider Trade

    http://blogs.piratesprospects.com/williams/first-pitch-why-i-like-the-travis-snider-trade/

    5 Bucs Dugout

    Pirates Trade Brad Lincoln For Travis Snider

    http://www.bucsdugout.com/2012/7/31/3205736/pirates-trade-brad-lincoln-for-travis-snider

    6 Rumbunter

    Darwin Barney & Friends Bomb Bucs on Clint Hurdles Birthday

    http://rumbunter.com/2012/07/30/darwin-barney-friends-bomb-bucs-on-clint-hurdles-birthday/

    7 McEffect

    Apprehension for the Pirates Stretch Run

    http://www.mceffect.com/2012/07/apprehension-for-pirates-stretch-run.html

    8 The Green Weenie

    All Cubs, All Night; Bucs Pounded 14-4

    http://oldbucs.blogspot.com/2012/07/all-cubs-all-night-bucs-pounded-14-4.html

    9 Raise the Jolly Roger

    Pirates trade Brad Lincoln to Blue Jays for Travis Snider

    http://raisethejollyroger.com/2012/07/pirates-trade-brad-lincoln-to-blue-jays-for-travis-snider/

    10 WHY GAVS

    Pirates trade Brad Lincoln to the Blue Jays for Travis Snider

    http://whygavs.com/pittsburgh-pirates/july-2012/pirates-trade-brad-lincoln-for-travis-snider.html

  37. JAL says:

    NEWSPAPERS and MAGAZINES and Other Media

    11 CBS Sports

    Pirates-Cubs Game Preview

    http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/gametracker/preview/MLB_20120731_PIT@CHC

    12 Toronto Star

    Blue Jays trade Travis Snider to Pittsburgh Pirates: Griffin

    http://www.thestar.com/sports/baseball/mlb/article/1234520–blue-jays-trade-travis-snider-to-pittsburgh-pirates-griffin

    13 Chicago Tribune

    Cubs trade Johnson, Maholm, Soto

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/ct-spt-0731-cubs-pirates-chicago–20120731,0,6781039.story

    14 Baseball Nation

    Pirates Add Outfielder Travis Snider In Trade

    http://mlb.sbnation.com/2012/7/31/3205730/pirates-blue-jays-trade-travis-snider-brad-lincoln-deadline

    15 USA Today

    Travis Snider gets a fresh start in Pittsburgh

    http://content.usatoday.com/communities/fantasywindup/post/2012/07/travis-snider-gets-a-fresh-start-in-pittsburgh/1#.UBe5eZIZxyU

    16 Chicago Sun Times

    Paul Maholm and Reed Johnson traded to Braves; Geovany Soto sent to Rangers

    http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/cubs/14111377-573/paul-maholm-and-reed-johnson-traded-to-braves-geovany-soto-sent-to-rangers.html

    17 St Louis Post Dispatch

    Bernie Bytes: Cards’ curse of close losses

    http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/bernie-miklasz/bernie-bytes-cards-curse-of-close-losses/article_baabc0b4-da57-11e1-887c-0019bb30f31a.html

    SPORTS WEBSITES

    18 PBC Site

    Pirates acquire Snider from Blue Jays for Lincoln

    http://pittsburgh.pirates.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120731&content_id=35862356&vkey=news_pit&c_id=pit

    Notebook: Cruz throws, working his way back to Pirates

    http://pittsburgh.pirates.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120730&content_id=35831958&notebook_id=35831960&vkey=notebook_pit&c_id=pit

    19 Baseball Prospectus

    How to Root for Your Team’s Recently Acquired Rent-a-Player

    http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=17837

    20 Fangraphs

    Did Alex Anthopolous Just Make a Bad Trade?

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/did-alex-anthopolous-just-make-a-bad-trade/

  38. JAL says:

    Steelers Blogs

    21 Behind the Steel Curtain

    Mike Wallace’s ‘No Contact’ Strategy May Have Permanently Damaged his Relationship With Steelers

    http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2012/7/30/3200352/pittsburgh-steelers-mike-wallace-holdout-training-camp

    Steelers Offense Emphasizing Physical Football So Far in Training Camp

    http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2012/7/30/3201389/steelers-offense-emphasizing-physical-football-so-far-in-training-camp

    22 Steelers Depot

    - Four Scenarios For Mike Wallace

    http://www.steelersdepot.com/2012/07/four-scenarios-for-mike-wallace/

    23 Steelers Gab

    Hensley: Adams and DeCastro Have to Work to Earn Starting Jobs

    http://www.steelersgab.com/2012/07/30/hensley-adams-and-decastro-have-to-work-to-earn-starting-jobs/

    24 Nice Pick Cower

    Likelihood of Trading #17 and Possible Training Camp Pickups for Steelers

    http://nicepickcowher.com/2012/07/28/likelihood-of-trading-17-and-possible-training-camp-pickups-for-steelers/

    Pitt Blogs

    25 Pitt Blather

    The Final Week of Non-News

    http://www.pittblather.com/2012/07/30/the-final-week-of-non-news/

    26 Cardiac Hill

    Pitt Non-Con Basketball Games Leaking Out

    http://www.cardiachill.com/2012/7/30/3204949/pitt-basketball-schedule-2012-2013-pittsburgh-panthers-howard-bethune-cookman-jamie-dixon

    WVU Blogs

    27 Metro News

    G&BN: One Happy Holgy

    http://www.wvmetronews.com/wvu.cfm?func=displayfullstory&storyid=54081

    28 WV Illustrated

    WVU Commit Daryl Worley “Part of the Family”

    http://www.wvillustrated.com/story/19148164/wvu-commit-daryl-worley-part-of-the-family

    Soccer(football)

    29 Sky Sports

    Transfer Clockwatch

    http://www1.skysports.com/transfer-centre/clockwatch

    30 Daily Telegraph

    Rio Ferdinand charged by FA for Ashley Cole ‘choc ice’ tweet in wake of John Terry trial

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/9438855/Rio-Ferdinand-charged-by-FA-for-Ashley-Cole-choc-ice-tweet-in-wake-of-John-Terry-trial.html

    31 World Soccer Daily

    10 Ten stories you need to read, July 30th, 2012

    http://www.worldsoccer.com/247/world-soccer-daily-10-stories-you-need-to-read-30th-july-2012

  39. JAL says:

    Don’t Let Me Be Misunderstood, The Animals, 1965. First recorded by Nina Simone in 1964

  40. twentytwo22 says:

    Listening to the Fan I’ve changed my opinion THIS WILL ABSOLUTELY END BADLY for Snider and Huntington. He’s already a lightning rod for comedic jokes, ridicule, and mocking. There’s 19 years of angst aimed at this guy’s head. U-G-L-Y. There’s no way this can be allowed to go on. It’s going to make Daniel Moskos seem trivial. If this team tanks it is going to be heaped on Snider.

    10 years from now, the Pirates in a division race approaching the trade deadline…
    Q: What should the Pirates do?
    A: Trade for Travis Snider.
    ALL: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    I gotta wonder if he can handle this.

  41. Lasedog8 says:

    Is Clement on the 40-man roster. I know he’s hitting well in AAA, but I’m not as excited to see that movie again as others. Not sure how I feel about the trade just yet, would have liked to see them pickup a SS, but don’t know if there is one out there. Barnes stinks at the plate, but has been terrific in the field. There was a huge difference between his defense, and Mercer’s, IMO. Hopefully the Cubs will trade Dempster before today’s game and we can right the ship a little… Not fun watching two blowouts in a row.

  42. Milo Hamilton says:

    Something to remember about the bullpen. Relievers will be flying around all over the place today, and in August. Perfect chance to get a functional lefty. Jose Mijares – Kansas City.

  43. NMR says:

    “Listening to the Fan I’ve changed my opinion THIS WILL ABSOLUTELY END BADLY ”

    Is this line supposed to be stereotypical humor?

  44. Thundercrack says:

    Jeff Clement is not an outfielder.

    At this point in his career is Shane Victorino that much better than Travis Snyder?

    I would not have traded Lincoln for a couple of months of Victorino.

    ( did my best to refrain from using the term ‘years of control’ )

  45. NMR says:

    Pirates Fans: WERST TRADEZ EVRR, N’AT

    Blue Jays fans: WERST TRADEZ EVRRR, EH?

  46. bdubb says:

    Does it say anywhere that Snider is going to play? If he is can the Pirates really go with 2 corner outfielders with little experience or success in MLB? And who are you replacing Lincoln with in the bullpen? Another inexperienced player? I will let this play out before I judge but this does scare me for the rest of 2012. Don’t you think the trade could have happened after the season?

    DK – right on with the tape delay crap. I have known more than a few results before I sat down and watched the swimming but wanted to see it anyway. It is the Olympics. Doesn’t happen very often. I also wonder what would have higher ratings at 4pm here – the Olympics or Dr Phil? And then of course NBC HAS to show men’s syncronized diving first at 8pm. That is tough to get through.

  47. Naje says:

    twentytwo…how old are you? and where’s your crystal ball? I’ll take your ugly comments after a few months of seeing Snider and this epic failure you and the brilliant, ahem, minds from The FAN predict.

    What a joke those comments are…

  48. JMB says:

    At first glance I hate this trade.

    Snider is the prototypical Quad-A player. Will he be a legit RF for us? I sure hope so, but I don’t see how he gets us to the Playoffs in 2012.

    So far NH has traded for Wandy & Snider…color me BLAH or BARF green.

    NH loves his 2007 prospect books, so maybe one of these guys will end up being a hit.

    What happens with Tabata now?

  49. The Gunner says:

    A reasonable person would think NH has another trade on the table that will give the Bucs the spark they need RIGHT NOW. The Bucs need an infusion of energy, their play has been lethargic as hell lately.

    Snider might be the second coming of another team’s top prospect such as Andy LaRoche, Jose SCABata, Lastings Milledge, Brandon Wood, Brandon Moss and probably many more I have missed.

    We will know by 4 PM today if the Bucs are serious about going for the playoffs or if their “yellow streak” has resurfaced.

  50. Playoffs by 2012 says:

    #twentytwo22isajackass

    Still waiting to hear from you buddy. Stop just blithering and say hello to me or anyone else in here. Man up or shut up.

  51. NMR says:

    I liked the Pirates better when they sucked.

  52. Mike C. says:

    @NMR
    hahaha
    Exactly

    sad misinformed fans : We should trade inexperienced kids like Marte and Tallion for Proven vets like Pence, Victorino and Carlos Lee RIGHT NOW.
    a PROVEN 7th inning 27 yr old STUD reliever for a 24 yr old prospect, are they giving up already?!?
    The time is NOW. We CAN win the WS. We are the team of DESTINY!!!
    NH is an idiot and a laughing stock of MLB!@!
    OMG!@#! We are doomed. I give up on this stupid team. I’m never watching or rooting for them again the rest of my life.

  53. JMB says:

    Joe Sheehan ‏@joe_sheehan
    Not bashing the trade, but it’s important to note that the Jays gave Snider some clean shots at a job. 33/1 K/BB in second run last year.

  54. Rocco says:

    I was just trolling ESPN’s comment board on this very topic, and wow, I didn’t realize Lincoln was the next Eckersly or Rivera. People over there are acting like we just dumped Doug Drabek or Teke or someone of that ilk in the prime of their career for a washing machine and a bag of balls. Honestly, I think Snider will help this year and especially next year, but let’s not kid ourselves about Lincoln – nice reliever, really like his mental makeup, but at the end of the day, no more than a good set up man at most, and as NH has in the past, you can find those pieces almost anywhere…

  55. Milo Hamilton says:

    @Mike C.

    So if you don’t like one particular trade that makes you a sad, misinformed fan ?

  56. JMB says:

    Gotta love the ad hominem attacks.

  57. Jandy says:

    NMR, lol, you’re killing me!

    Mike C…wanna bet you’re watching them tonight? :p

  58. JAL says:

    Clement is not on the 40, have to remove someone from the 40 to bring Clement up.

  59. Mike C. says:

    more aimed at ppl like 22 and other comments read on other blogs, and sorry if you took it the wrong way, but all I’m saying is we need calm down, not over react, and see how this new kids actually plays b4 we pass judgement on this trade

  60. Milo Hamilton says:

    Gotcha Mike. Still more shoes to drop, I suspect.

  61. Lasedog8 says:

    If the Pirates were to bring up Clement for a bench role, who would you take off the 40-man roster? Fryer maybe? Possibly Navarro?

  62. JAL says:

    There will be at least 1 roster move today–trade puts them down a pitcher on the 25 so likely someone (maybe Mercer) to Indy for a pitcher (Meek, DMac, or Morris)

  63. JAL says:

    Lasedog8

    I say Fryer most likely to drop off the 40, good chance no one would claim him.

  64. LuckyNKentucky says:

    Way too early to pass judgment on this trade. I really liked Lincoln, especially after he stared down Thome, but even before that. But trades can’t be judged up front. Look at Karstens vs. Ohlendorf and many, many others. Give the kid a chance, after Neal aquires another bat before this evening. He can spin his talent with the pen later. Snider went in the first round the same year as Lincoln, but didn’t go to college, so he’s only 24. Maybe a good move, maybe not. We’re still in the race and we’re gonna stay there.

  65. JAL says:

    Dejan

    Great column–expands on what I posted yesterday. I posted it is 1970 coverage–I have seen others say 1968 or 1975. Regardless of the year, the coverage ignores the communication revolution that taken place the past 20 years.

    Did hear a story about NBC violating their own rule. Last night the went to commercial saying Missy Franklin goes for the gold next. Then they ran a promo for the Today Show with Missy Franklin and her gold medal. So NBC gave the result before they showed the event.

  66. JMB says:

    http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/index.php/the-disappointments-of-youth-travis-snider/

    A fantasy article from January on Snider.

    “I can’t shake the feeling that if Snider doesn’t correct his declining walk rate, [Delmon] Young will become one of his top comps.”

    ***********************************************************************************************

    I see people on other sites are wondering if we will flip Snider for Choo.

    I sure hope so, but I seriously doubt it.

  67. JHadar says:

    Well, that’s done. Over. We don’t get Lincoln back by wishing for him. Wait and see if it works out. Snider was also a number one draft pick. Might work, might not. And still I’m thinkin’ — actually hopin’ more than thinkin’ — that Neal was picking up a piece for down the road. We got lots of pitchers coming along. You acquire pitchers and trade for bats. That’s the theory, isn’t it? Maybe there will be more to come today. If we make the playoffs Neal’s done OK. If we win the division, then he’s smart. World Serious, then the guy’s a genius.

    At least by making a move right when he did, he’s got us talking about what he wants us to talk about. My theory, based entirely on yesterday’s ranting and what more do we need to see the light (?), is that our $10 million malcontent bribed Bedard to blow a ballgame so that he can get back into the rotation. It’s the only explanation. I mean I had a lot of work to do last night and was checking Gamecast and it said San Diego 10 Cincinnati 4 and Pittsburgh 2 Chicago 1 — so I typed a few more things and there was a 3 and a 5 on the Chicago line. And they weren’t even done! And now Neal’s traded away our best reliever just so we forget how bad it was last night. It’s a conspiracy, I say! A conspiracy! (at least in theory)

    But we’ll fool ‘em. We’ll hate the trade. He can’t pull a fast one on us.

    – “Baseball is designed to break your heart” — A. B. Giametti

  68. PhillyPoke says:

    The point at this time of year is to make a trade to improve the 2012 team for the stretch drive and playoff push. No one in their right mind can say that this trade improves the 2012 team. In fact, this trade makes this team worse. It is irrelevant how Snider fares next year or three years from now. Even if Snider becomes a starting outfielder with 30 HRs in a year or two, but we miss the playoffs this year because Jared Hughes or Bryan Morris or (insert some reliever here) gives up a bomb, I would consider this trade a failure. Seize the moment and win now !

  69. Hunter says:

    Regarding Snyder: In an ideal world the Pirates get a high OBP, great plate discipline type of player with multiple years of control without giving up a cornerstone piece. Well the ideal world usually doesn’t exist so they got a power hitter with multiple years of control without giving up a cornerstone.

    I would have liked to have improved a weakness but at the same time there is nothing wrong with improving a strength. I would have rather they got the best player possibly with the longest period of control over the ideal 2012 fit… he should help both long and short term.

  70. CWalton_67 says:

    Dejan- enjoying your quick thoughts on some of the London sights and history. Great stuff about the Tower.

    A question for the group:

    Anyone think there is any possibility Bucs might swing a deal for Hunter Pence? I saw Phillies at Coors Field, and there is a distinctly different sound when his bat hits the ball, and it rockets in whatever direction it is going. My thought is that with the acquisition of Snider, NH will not make that move at this point.

  71. Hunter says:

    @CWalton_67, IMO no way they deal for Pence now and don’t think they would have even without the Snyder deal. His numbers this year are worse than Garrett Jones’ and he’s going to be due about $14M next year… plus they want prospects. Actually his career numbers aren’t much better than Garrett’s.

  72. JRay3 says:

    I will say this about the trade, the Pirates have more options in their system to be able to replace a Brad Lincoln than they have power potential bats ready to step in at the MLB level.

    Snider has to be an immediate upgrade over Presely who just looked lost.

  73. Mike C. says:

    @Jandy – if Snider is in the lineup, screw it, i’m skipping work :p

  74. Jay G -Jacksonville FL via New Castle says:

    Someone mentioned Snider could be a possible Giles….All I’ve heard on here, for the most part, is “he could be the next Moss/LaRoche/Scabata/etc, etc”….Could be another Giles….The .330 average in AAA is something I like….We’ve seen Presley tear up AAA, Pearce was raking for awhile and guys like Hyzdu seemed to be the AAAA type…..So who knows who this guy will pan out to be….Looking forward to seeing him out in RF tonight……

  75. Matt says:

    Great post #64! Couldn’t agree more.

  76. Jandy says:

    Lucky, the voice of reason =)

    OK, so is it a given Snider plays tonight?

  77. LuckyNKentucky says:

    J-girl,

    Who knoweth the mind of a Hurdle?

  78. Milo Hamilton says:

    Here’s something that’s been upgraded in the last week. The Pirates have added 2 very much above average outfield arms. I saw Snider make a throw from right field to 3rd base in Dunedin a couple years ago that reminded me of Jose Guillen.

  79. RobertoForever says:

    @Hunter

    Be careful about pointing out facts about Pence. Some people love Pence here and get angry if you point out how similar his numbers are to Jones. Lol

  80. Mike C. says:

    I’m not so sure a trade for a vet bat is 100% garanteed .

    of course we need an extra bat, possibly a high OBP guy, but LA, LAA, Washington, SF etc. are all looking as well. Seems like a lot of teams are looking for bats and are more willing to give up prospects than us.
    This year has turned into a seller’s market for bats (with good # of pitchers available, not so much with bats)
    And from what we’ve seen of NH, he hates to overpay with prospects, especially for rentals.

    I still believe we have very good chance to make the playoffs, and of course I’d love another significant bat, but i’m not holding my breath.

  81. Hunter says:

    @RobertoForever Yeah, I’m used to that. I think he’s a fine player just highly over-valued. I don’t know… maybe it’s because he used to beat up on the Bucs or has that recognizable funky swing. The numbers just never added up IMO.

  82. Milo Hamilton says:

    @Roberto

    $14 million for Pence next year is just too much money. I really liked Choo for about half the money next year. And he’s a better player than Pence, in my opinion.

  83. RobertoForever says:

    @JRay #73

    Agree with this line of thinking. If we could have traded Evan Meek 2 years ago for an Alvarez type, that would look smart now.

    Plus, NH seems to be able to build bullpens out of toothpicks, twine and napkins. Seems like a sell high move. Hope it works well for both teams. Wonder if Brad has every been to Canada? How fast is his pitch in kph?

  84. RobertoForever says:

    @Milo,

    I liked Choo as a better option as well. But the Indians wanted Marte + and that sounded too rich.

  85. Arriba Wilver says:

    Comparing The BBC’s live coverage of a live event in England to NBC’s coverage over here makes about as much sense as having your mind changed on a baseball subject by listening to the Fan morning team.

  86. LuckyNKentucky says:

    Roberto,

    You’re right about current numbers for Pence and Jones, but Pence has more tools. Don’t forget, Barmes’s numbers are close to Mario Mendoza’s, too. So numbers can be skewed by the present value at times. I can’t see us getting Pence now or ever, probably. I’m a Jones person myself, but I don’t think he’s the player Pence is. Like Hunter said above, he always hits us well.

  87. Milo Hamilton says:

    @Roberto

    Agreed. I want to see who else goes where and for what before I can judge Snider. They’ll pick up at least one reliever today, hopefully a lefty. And relievers & bench guys generally clear waivers in August.

  88. Reagan's Dad says:

    Why is everybody referring to Snider as a power hitter? The most homers he hit in the minors was 17, way back in 2008. His high in the majors was 14 in 298 at-bats, so that’s one every 21 at-bats. Those are not power numbers. Yeah, the trade might work out in the long term but I think Lincoln had much more value than this as a trading chip.

  89. AJS says:

    The tape delay of the Olympics is a necessary evil. On the weekends they could go live with no problems. People are actually home at those times. On weekdays, even if events are starting at 10PM London time, that is 5 PM east coast. Most people are just getting out of work. People on the left coast are just getting back from a long lunch. The proposal of airing it live on a sister network and showing the replay later is fine, but those people at work that are getting the live news through twitter or ESPN or whatever would still be complaining about hearing reports of something they were incapable of seeing.

    This doesn’t mean reporters should stop reporting. It doesn’t mean NBC should stop showing the big events in prime time when people are home to watch it. It means that everyone just needs to get over it.

  90. JMB says:

    “Actually his career numbers aren’t much better than Garrett’s.”

    While there is a modicum of truth to this statement.

    Jones .256 .318 .460

    Pence .290 .342 .481

    Pence has a career fWAR of 20.6, and Jones is 4.5.

    Even if you just go 2009-now, Pence is around 13 and Jones around 5.

  91. RobertoForever says:

    With regard to live Olympics events, for those who work all day, they can’t see live events on TV during the day. Why would NBC NOT save the best events for replay in prime time.

    For anyone who wants to see an event live, they are there. And NBC is using the new technology. Its called live streaming on nbcolympics.com. it works great. I have watched U.S. team handball and water polo. 20 years ago, I would not have been able to see either, period.

  92. pants-n-at says:

    @JMB #66. As soon as I read about it, I thought the same thing. I think Snider will be traded or replaces another young OF. KC can move into Lincoln’s spot as long relief/spot starter and Snider becomes a “prospect” for a trade today. At least that’s what I’m hoping to hear. Plus NH saying more thing in the fire makes me think he is moving him. If not, then I don’t agree with this trade. We need a proven player.

  93. JAL says:

    Roberto

    CBC is also showing the events live in Canada. While you can watch some events live on the web, NBC withholds the major events, like swimming finals, until prime time. NBC could run the events live during the day and still run the replays in prime time for those who can’t watch during the day.

  94. RobertoForever says:

    Speaking of watching live events, just watched Vincent Hancock match Kim Rhode in the skeet shooting event, winning Gold for the US, and setting an Olympic record. Great showing by the Americans in the shotgun category.

    Hancock is a Sergeant in the U.S. Army. Now I have two reasons to salute Vincent. He is 23 and now 2 for 2 in Gold medals in Olympics. Cheers.

  95. Bizrow says:

    I’ve heard of Snider, he has regularly burned me in fantasy leagues.

    I just don’t get this trade

  96. RobertoForever says:

    @JAL

    Thanks for the clarification. Didn’t try to watch those events.

  97. Drew71 says:

    Nothing like a trade to get people calling people stupid.

    Well. EYE don’t need a trade to be stupid.

    waittaminnit…

  98. Drew71 says:

    That post will be rebroadcast in London in six hours.

  99. Naterosboro says:

    “I liked the Pirates better when they sucked.”

    Perhaps the best (and most intuitive) thought expressed on this blog so far this season. I applaud NMR for stating this.

    *Rubs fingers together* (It’s less aggressive than clapping).

  100. Jandy says:

    NMR post #51, Post of the day!

  101. RobertoForever says:

    @JMB

    Maybe those WAR numbers are a result of hitting in front of power-hitting All stars. Pence not so good when he is expected to be the star. Not worth $14 mil.

  102. K. PenFan says:

    whatever, hope the pirates don’t suck again tonight. *raises glass of OJ* Here’s to hoping pirates get off the snide and sweep the reds this weekend.

  103. Tim says:

    I’m not a social media guy. Find it all so video-gamish. Weird world. Grown men clinging to phones like babies to a pacifier. I can’t bring myself to utter the word Twitter. I didn’t utter, I spelled. I can’t play with my son on a cell phone.

  104. NMR says:

    I like this trade for the fringe assumptions that can reasonably be made:

    -Despite the high level internal knowledge of blogs around Western PA, Neal Huntington is not, in fact, sleeping. Shocking that the industry “insiders” didn’t catch a whiff of this, nor the Wandy trade.

    -This move means that Jose Tabata will not be handed his job back next year in Spring Training, contract be damned.

    -The Pirates front office has a plan, improving the team now AND in the future, and is sticking to it. I have no idea whether or not these moves will accomplish either of those goals, but clear thought and execution is always better than launching birdshot down range at a moving target.

    Do I actually get more optimistic after the Pirates lose? Strange, indeed.

  105. LuckyNKentucky says:

    Tim,

    I agree with you about Twitter. I don’t tweet, but I do read some of the tweets of DK and 24/7. For example, 24/7 tweeted today that Searage said JMac’s problems are mental and physical. He didn’t mention the CL and neither has Hurdle so far. Also, Brad Lincoln had some tweets retweeted by Rob stating the Pirates are for real and thanking all his fans in Pgh. and the believe and that history will be made.

  106. RobertoForever says:

    Twitter is great. Get to hear from the players directly, both major league and minor league, and in many cases have a conversation with them. Plus you get the news much quicker, albeit shortened. Its like having a text beeper with news updates.

    You don’t have to tweet to get the benefit of it. If you set it up to send text to your phone, you never even have to open the web version.

  107. Arriba Wilver says:

    Classy move by Lincoln.

  108. Curt says:

    I see no one saw my question from earlier, so I will ask again.

    How many years of control do we have with Snider?

    Thanks fellow bloggers for the answer!

  109. Rocco says:

    Looks like 4 Curt

  110. AJS says:

    I’ll say that I LIKE the Snider trade. Lincoln wasn’t going to cut it as a starter. He looked good as a back end bull pen guy…well we have a couple of those already. Trading a guy you are having a hard time defining his role on the team for a guy that still has 4 years of control left and shows promise as a young outfielder seems like a no brainer to me.

  111. Stickyweb says:

    I wouldn’t call Snider a prototypical quad A player, at least not yet. I see that as a 27 or 28 year old that’s still trying to establish themselves into a major leaguer. Think GI Jones a couple years back. So sometimes even those guys work out.

    As for the “power hitter” designation, that may not be completely accurate, but neither are Reagan’s Dads (#88) stats. You turn the highest number of HR in a single year into ABs/HR and deride them. But his best ABs/HR were 12.5 in AAA in 2009 and 17.7 last year at 2 minor league stops. Not Ruthian, but certainly not punch-n-judy numbers either.

    @jmb (#53) his K/BB rate was never 33/1. So far in about a 1 1/2 seasons worth of MLB game, it’s 3.6/1.

    And he’s played 242 MLB games so he’s not exactly as green as Marte, though not as experienced as Walker and Cutch. Actually he’s only 20 games shy of Pedro’s experience. If that scares you, maybe you can go lock yourself in 2222′s basement for a couple of weeks.

    Bottom line people: He’s not exactly what us fans were hoping for but he can help this year (only has to be better than AP after all) and will definitely help for the next few years. Hate to see Lincoln go but he is much easier to replace than a corner OF spot.

    And maybe NH isn’t done either. Here’s hoping.

  112. JHadar says:

    I think a lot more of us would like the trade (1) as an off-season deal, and (2) if we had been following Snider through the Jays’ farm system the way we have Lincoln for the last five or six years.

    As it happens, the first time I heard about Snider was when I turned the computer on this morning and discovered he’s now one of our guys and Lincoln was gone. My immediate reaction was “what have they done now?”

    As I read through the blog(s) and see what other people are talking about I find myself agreeing with the notion that Neal’s not done and this guy may just be a fall back in case something on the table falls off at the end.

    I’d like to see Clint Barmes and a couple three prospects for Starlin Castro. Not that it’s likely to happen. Sterling and Starlin and Travis and Andy — has a poetic ring to it though.

    I also like that it came out of the clear blue. Never heard a rumor or a clue. And, as far as that goes I haven’t heard a rumor, at least concerning the Bucs, that has been true yet all year.

  113. JohninOshkosh says:

    ” If I hear years of control one more time, I’m gonna puke.”

    Count me as a big fan Milo.

  114. Bizrow says:

    Snyder is most probably out of minor league options, so its sink or swim for the guy. One reason why I don’t like the trade

  115. JMB says:

    @112

    Joe Sheehan is a pretty well respected baseball writer, so I doubt he made that up.

    “33/1 K/BB in second run last year.” could just be an example of small sample size, but it isn’t encouraging.

  116. Jandy says:

    Stickyweb says: “And he’s played 242 MLB games so he’s not exactly as green as Marte, though not as experienced as Walker and Cutch. Actually he’s only 20 games shy of Pedro’s experience. If that scares you, maybe you can go lock yourself in 2222’s basement for a couple of weeks.”
    LOL, priceless!

  117. Milo Hamilton says:

    Another lefty I’ve seen mentioned is Glen Perkins from the Twins. Signed for 3 more years at about $10 million total. Stats look good.

  118. NMR says:

    Fantastic job in post #112, Stickeyweb.

    This forum is a place of shared information and opinion. When facts such as statistics are given, we don’t have time to back check all of them. The integrity of conversation is compromised when people either purposely or inadvertently twist numbers around to try and prove a point. That completely goes against the nature of what makes this place such a great resource.

    Share whatever opinion you’d like. We’ll either agree or poke fun, all in good nature. But please, don’t pass off bogus numbers as fact.

  119. NMR says:

    Also, want to second Arriba in post #108.

    It sucks losing Brad Lincoln, the person, as much as Brad Lincoln, the player. Handled adversity, success, and failure as a professional, always.

    *coughkevincorreiacough*

  120. JohninOshkosh says:

    I found it amusing that despite the loud protestations against Twitter and NBC regarding the treatment of the British journalist, I have yet to hear of any American journalist in London suspending or cancelling their Twitter account in protest.

    Could have been a nice John Carlos and Tommie Smith moment for some brave journalist. No one takes a stand anymore. Fight the Power unless the Power gives you exposure and audience.

  121. JMB says:

    @NMR

    The numbers are not “bogus,” and I would you wouldn’t be the type of blogger to claim factual information as bogus.

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?id=snidetr01&t=b&year=2011

    July 4 – Aug 3, 2011. 33k’s / 1 BB.

  122. cmat0829 says:

    Interesting trade. Putting the pennant race aside for a moment, I like the trade. The Pirates, let’s face it, have a severe shortage of young offensive players and they have no such shortage of young arms. I really really liked how Lincoln evolved into an effective relief pitcher… but those are much, much, much easier to come by in the market. Let’s not fret at all about NH’s ability to build a top-notch bullpen. Proven fact and that’s that.

    As to Snider, I don’t know much about him but that he was highly regarded by Toronto. This does have a “roll the dice” quality to it, but in my personal opinion, much better to leverage Lincoln (Clint did say he was gonna get high leverage opportunities, eh?) for the upside of Snyder than to waste it on 2 months of Victorino.

    Now, back to the pennant race…. while Snider is an upgrade over the “King” (next move is for Gorkys or Alex to “return to sender, um Indy”) right here and right now, I HAVE to believe the Bucs are gonna pick up a veteran RH outfielder…Reed Johnson would’ve been perfect… not sure what the list is in terms of who is out there, but that’s the mission for NH today…. in this order:

    1) Vet RF OF’er
    2) Vet LH reliever
    3) AZ SS Stephen Drew

    One other wild ass guess….maybe NH is gonna step up and move Marte to Choo….and Snider is his way of backfilling the “young OFer with upside” slot…. I personally would HATE to see Marte go, but that’s not too wild of speculation….

    Let’s not forget…this Pirates team will go as far as their pitching takes them… JMac has to get back on track and if he does, AJ, Wandy, JMac and karstens means I sleep well at night….. the Giants a couple of years ago went all the way and their big pickup was Cody Ross…..

  123. DemonDachshund says:

    @Stickyweb -

    In July and August of last year, Snider struck out 33 times and walked once, which is what that tweet referred to.

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=snidetr01&year=2011&t=b

  124. LuckyNKentucky says:

    cmat,

    Good post, but Gorkys is already back in Indy. He’s hitless since he went back; no great surprise, but still a fine outfielder. Some tweets last night indicated Drew may be headed to Oakland. He’s under the Mario line this season, too, in a small sample size. Alex may be the next to go IMHO. Him or Jordy.

  125. DemonDachshund says:

    I’m sorry, I’m disappointed. I wanted a top of the order guy. We have entirely too many Sniders on the team right now… Really wanted someone who could get on base ahead of Cutch.

    I get that there’s potential there, and that Snider may fill the hole in the outfield for years to come. I just have a hard time believing given NH’s track record in identifying hitters of this type, AND given the Toronto GM’s track record.

    But I’ll cross my fingers and hope that after years of being unable to fill the power outfield spot(s), he finally did it.

    Hopefully there’s more coming. 4:45 and change left…

  126. cmat0829 says:

    Ooops, I must’ve missed Gorkys’ return to Indy. The King goes then. Back “in the ghetto”.

  127. pants-n-at says:

    @ NMR. 67% of statistics are bogus anyway.

  128. Mike C. says:

    Just read this from another site, although i’m not so sure in Leroux/Morris as the poster, but seemed to make sense in a way

    “Ultimately, this is what it comes down to: the upgrade from playing Presley/McGehee to Snider is much greater than the dropoff from Lincoln to Leroux/Morris/etc.”

  129. NMR says:

    @JMB/Demon

    Correct. A sampling of his worst stretch in the MLB yielded that skewed number.

    Stickyweb put in into context with Sniders overall numbers.

    I, personally, don’t want to sift through statistics during hot or cold streaks when looking at a players makeup.

  130. Stickyweb says:

    @JMB

    Now I see what Sheehan meant. Snider had 2 stints in MLB last year. After July 4 call up, he did have 33/1 K/BB, which is almost unbelievable, but overall numbers aren’t nearly that bad.

    @ JHader #113 Great point about both Bucco trades happening below the radar and no rumor actually working out. BMTIB obviously doesn’t negotiate through the media. So I boldly predict we land Jacoby Ellsbury by 4:00 today. Oh wait. he’s left handed? Then make that David Dejesus. What? He’s southpaw too? Doesn’t anyone swing a bat right handed anymore? I give up on the predictions

  131. pghboyinca says:

    Drew71
    July 31st, 2012 – 6:14 am
    As my wife would say: this is premature.
    I’ll wait until the deadline and, if there are other deals, judge them together.

    Drew, Don’t want any more detail than that on your wifes comment to you……

    I really get apprehensive when I see some phenom coming from the Pacific coast league putting up power numbers in the desert. I think it is a reach to think he will make a difference down the stretch. Hope he can come in and rake for a month or two. Barmes and McGhee are hideous. Barmes has been a joke at the plate all year and McGhee outside of one 30 day stretch is as bad if not worse. Barajas is also a total liability at the plate. I have noticed that teams seem to have wised up and are not lettting Cutch get anything to drive. His hits are now singles because he is having to hit bordeline pitches or take a base on balls.

  132. Stickyweb says:

    I see the rest of you figured that out K/BB while I was researching my post. Didn’t mean to imply you knowingly posted bad stats. We’re all scrambling around trying to make heads or tails of the trade and all of the rumors out there.

  133. redus says:

    Let’s not get too hung up on Snider’s K/BB from LAST AUGUST. As we all know LAST AUGUST is a lifetime away from THIS AUGUST, particularly for young players still learning the game at the ML level. Ask Pedro about how he was feeling LAST AUGUST. Maybe even Cutch would be able to fill us in on what it felt like for him LAST AUGUST. Sheehan may be decently respected as a baseball writer, but a lot of it is crap too. Those figures are real…but I am here to tell you that they really don’t carry all that much weight. Guys that young look different from one week to the next as we all know. Very good gamble.

  134. JohninOshkosh says:

    I went outside to mow the lawn and the smell of trading deadline day angst was in the air.

  135. Stickyweb says:

    @pants #128

    and the other 90% are misinterpreted

  136. Milo Hamilton says:

    Domonic Brown (still waiting) is joining the Phillies in Washington. Shane Victorino is heading to Los Angeles for Josh Lindblom & another player.

  137. DemonDachshund says:

    @NMR -

    Original quote (#53)

    “Joe Sheehan ‏@joe_sheehan
    Not bashing the trade, but it’s important to note that the Jays gave Snider some clean shots at a job. 33/1 K/BB in second run last year.”

    Context was right there, if you missed it, that’s on you.

  138. DemonDachshund says:

    And 3.6:1 is still not a good thing.

  139. JMB says:

    @NMR

    I guess I should have known better than to expect you to admit that you’re wrong, but whatever since it’s just as easy to ignore you as it is to engage you.

    But if you question someone’s facts as “bogus,” you should apologize when you are proven wrong.

    People are posting Snider’s stats from all over, and they are all small sample sizes.

    He has 40′s PAs in 2012 with an .856 OPS, and people think we just got Joey Bats pre-breakout.

    The 33/1 came in 103 PAs just last summer, so there is no “twisting” or manipulating.

  140. radio wave says:

    I’m listening to xm mlb radio. Former Mets GM Jim douquette is reviewing the Pirates trade.
    He has doubts. To paraphrase:
    I hope he’s a change of scenery guy, I hope he blasts off the rest of this year, but there’s nothing in his recent history to indicate that will happen.
    We all know how good the hitting coach is in Toronto, if they couldn’t turn it around, why do the Pirates think they can?

  141. Stickyweb says:

    @Mike C #129

    “Ultimately, this is what it comes down to: the upgrade from playing Presley/McGehee to Snider is much greater than the dropoff from Lincoln to Leroux/Morris/etc.”

    That’s so perfect I wish I said it. In fact, I’m going to find another blog and claim it as my own.

  142. radio wave says:

    How big does the last day of the season 12:30 p.m. home game against the Braves look now?

  143. Stickyweb says:

    @radiowave #141

    “We all know how good the hitting coach is in Toronto, if they couldn’t turn it around, why do the Pirates think they can?”

    Hopefully the June – All Star break Gregg Ritchie will be coaching Snider, not the April, May, All Star break – present Ritchie. Clemente wall may help Snider, as long as he doesn’t start aiming for it.

  144. LuckyNKentucky says:

    Radio,

    Neal indicated they thought Searage could help Wandy get back to form when they got him. Maybe Greg Ritchie can work a miracle with Snider as he seemingly has the last few months with many of the Buc hitters. (Not being sarcastic at this point, believe it or not).

  145. Mosca says:

    Another way of looking at it:

    A former #1 pick pitcher who hasn’t lived up to his billing for a former #1 pick hitter who hasn’t lived up to his billing.

    Next.

    Both teams traded someone they didn’t really need for someone who might fill a need. Neither gave up much, both got possible solutions. Win-win, on a minor scale. And don’t overvalue Lincoln. He is pretty good, but very replaceable.

  146. NMR says:

    @JMB

    I made a comment about my personal preference regarding small sample size, self serving statistics.

    You want me to apologize for that?

    Fine. I’m sorry for hurting your feelings by not agreeing with you. I hope you’ll be able to sleep tonight.

    Milo, can we get a ruling on whether or not that was that good enough?

  147. JHadar says:

    PghBoy

    RE: Desert stats … Shouldn’t the SABR folks have figured out the proper way to discount them by now and passed it on the stats guy in the various front offices? I know there are physics studies with those kinds of formulas nobody really understands on how dry air, thin air, high altitude, and maybe even the need to wear darker sunglasses effects every thing from how far the ball flies, the bat compresses and rebounds, reaction time, how spikes stick in the dirt, player dehydration, and even things you and I probably don’t think about. Nonetheless, major Leaguers do come out of those clubs.

    For my part, I think it was Andy LaRoche’s sunshiny record that’s made me suspicious. A purely emotional reaction. I thought he would be star of the Jason Bay package, but it turns out there wasn’t one. Sorry to bring that up — it was such a disappointment that random associations still trigger the grief.

  148. cmat0829 says:

    I think all angles of this trade have successfully been argued at this point…
    1) oh no, another Andy LaRoche, Brandon Moss, Lastings Milledge, et al
    2) worth a shot, maybe it’s Joey Bats 2.0
    3) better than playing Alex/ McGehee
    4) not the player we need for the stretch run

    Time will tell. Snider could indeed join the scrap heap in 2 years. Or he could harness his potential and become an allstar. Or somewhere in between. The same is true of Lincoln. He could become a staff ace…or wash out entirely. To be fair, both teams rolled the dice. Lincoln has yet to prove he can start at the ML level and has never tried to close. We can talke about his “closer stuff” but Jays fans also are talking about the potential they felt they had in Snider.

  149. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    RE: Snider

    This trade could be a great deal. Snider is projected as a 30 HR guy. Brad Lincoln was awesome out of the pen, no doubt, but RPs are a dime a dozen.

    This deal also frees up some money. Snider is under control for 4 more years and will probably get the minimum next year.

    It reminds me of Ricardo Rincon for Brian S. Giles……….I’m staying positive on this one. Alot of what I’ve read from the “experts” call this a win for the Buccos, lets go with that idea compared to the blogs untrained eyes.

  150. Boise Bucco says:

    Hey, look on the bright side–if Morris pitches well during his call-up, we get to talk about the Jason Bay trade again! Who ever gets tired of that!? :)

    Lol just kidding. Merry trade deadline!

  151. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    I think LA is going to be the team to beat in the NL now. Big acquistions. Hoping they don’t pan out though.

  152. Bizrow says:

    “Rolling the dice” is not what I was hoping for if the PBC was to make a move.

    Just sayin, and I would have been ok if no move was made due to them being too costly.

  153. JHadar says:

    cmat0829 –

    Maybe everything has been said, but not everybody has said it yet

  154. JMB says:

    Tim Brown ‏@TBrownYahoo
    Phillies have traded Victorino to Dodgers for Lindblom and Ethan martin

  155. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    @Biz

    Because of the price tags for Pence, Victorino, etc. this may turn out to be a pretty good deal.

    Do I think Snider will put us over the top? No, but I do believe he adds value to the team.

    I do think he’ll be an upgrade over AP and will move McGheheheehee to the bench.

    No more GI Jones swan dives in the OF!!!

  156. Stickyweb says:

    @Bosie #151

    Let’s look at the even brighter side. Even if Morris fails, they’ll still talk about the J Bay trade some more. Awesome!

    Jays fans think they got hosed + Pirates fans think they got screwed = best trade ever!

    We need sticks more than arms at this point, nuff said.

  157. scapper says:

    For what it’s worth, the comments section is reading more and more like a Mark Madden call-in show. And that’s not a good thing.

  158. Florida Pirate says:

    Is it too much to just ask for a trade for a player I’ve actually heard of?

  159. AJS says:

    If this is the last move then the Pirates failed to get what they NEED. If this is simply one move in a vaccuum it is a decent trade. Put another way, big picture(the future) good move, short term(pennant run) need more.

  160. LuckyNKentucky says:

    Sticky,

    Jays fans haven’t seen Lincoln stare down Jim Thome and we haven’t seen Snider do anything. Looks like a toss-up. We do need sticks, though. Got to pull for a guy like Morris. A couple years ago, he was a head case. Now, he could potentially be a set-up guy on a contender down the stretch.

  161. JMB says:

    Lindblom was ranked eighth among the Dodgers’ top 30 prospects for 2012 by Baseball America, and Martin was ranked 17th.

  162. Mike C. says:

    @JHadar #154

    well said

  163. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    @JMB

    That’s the Pirates equilivant of Rudy Owens and Mel Rojas Jr.

    Now, I don’t know those guys in the Dodgers farm system, but do you make that deal for a rental? That’s the hard part. Obviously RO is gone, so the next guy up is Jeff Locke.

    We’ve heard NH say, he wasn’t paying that steep of a price for a rental and he’s wanted years of control guys………

    My guess is, and I dont know, that these guys are closer to the MLB level than Mel Rojas is.

  164. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    Or not…….good link.

  165. Drew71 says:

    Can you imagine if they got Pence?

    There’d be some SERIOUS mud wrestling in here.

    And oh yes. Let’s get this out of the way right now. I was wrong and I apologize.

    Well. Except to Thunder for all those Jack Wilson-Penn-Eveland posts. He can put those where the sun don’t shine.

    Wow. Let’s have some more trades. This stuff is addictive. And I have lots more to say to Thunder.

    Lots.

    (what were we talking about?)

  166. Boise Bucco says:

    At the same time, nothing the Dodgers will miss is a lot different than nothing the Pirates will miss. Prospects have a totally different value to the Bucs, they have to.

  167. JMB says:

    It’s definitely going to be a brutal battle to the playoffs.

    The Dodgers & Braves are getting better, and I will not be surprised if the Giants end up w. Pence.

    I should remind myself that I would have been happy just breaking the streak this year, and I feel pretty confidant that the team will accomplish that goal.

    However, it’s hard not to think about being in the playoffs…

  168. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    @BB

    Exactly man. Dodgers have a lot more money to play with. They can afford to let their Top 30 guys go for a rental.

  169. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    @JMB

    If the Pirates break the streak and make a good run at the division and fall short, they’ve still have had a great year.

    1988 anybody?

  170. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    @drew

    Why the apology?

  171. JMB says:

    “confident

  172. JMB says:

    Pence to Giants is done per HEYMAN

  173. DemonDachshund says:

    Jon Heyman saying on Twitter that Pence will be a Giant.

    That’s cool, we weren’t getting him anyways.

  174. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    @Sticky

    “So I boldly predict we land Jacoby Ellsbury by 4:00 today. Oh wait. he’s left handed? Then make that David Dejesus. What? He’s southpaw too? Doesn’t anyone swing a bat right handed anymore? I give up on the predictions”

    Got a chuckle.

    Supposedly, the Pirates are still looking at a RH bat……

  175. Milo Hamilton says:

    The Giants got Hunter Pence. Still waiting on the return.

  176. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    SF Giants agree to Hunter Pence……..wifey’s gonna like this.

  177. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    Or not……..these details suck……I’m actually glad that NH doesn’t pull this crap through the media.

    Jim Bowden saying the Phillies DO NOT have a deal……..my guess is, there’s a deal being made.

  178. Boise Bucco says:

    If the Bucs don’t make any more moves, I feel pretty good where they stand, to be honest.

    I think Hurdle is gonna sit down with Correia and let him know that, between JMac and Bedard, between the two of them, one is bound to be either slipping or DL-bound before long, and Correia’s skills are going to be needed. Yeah, it sucks to be a starter and get demoted, but it would suck more to be a starter for Colorado and watch your career ERA balloon up to 7.75.

    Also, DID ANYONE KNOW THAT THERE ARE CHEERLEADERS AT THE OLYMPICS!? THERE ARE CHEERLEADERS AT THE MEN’S VOLLEYBALL MATCH BETWEEN USA AND GERMANY. LIKE, POM-POMS AND SKIRTS AND EVERYTHING. GET DK ON THIS, STAT. I DON’T CARE ABOUT TAPE-DELAYS, I CARE ABOUT OLYMPIC-LEVEL CHEERLEADERS. I CHECKED, AND THIS STATEMENT IS CAPS-LOCK APPROVED.

  179. radio wave says:

    More negative comment from Douquette on the trade.
    he was asked if the pirates can expect “league average production (20-25 homers) for a left fielder, and his answer was no.
    He said it was a good trade as far as sending apitcher for a position player, he likes that kind of trade.

  180. Stickyweb says:

    @Florida #159

    What? You want players you’ve actually heard of? Who do you think we are, the Dodgers or something?

  181. NMR says:

    Man, Dodgers looking like they’ll get Hanley, Choate, Victorino, League, and now Dempster.

    The rich get richer.

  182. DemonDachshund says:

    I don’t mean this in a critical way, but I keep thinking of NH sitting behind his desk with some sort of list in his hand, and Gollum-style saying “My prospectsssssssss”.

    I understand why he won’t “spend” any of them, and I can’t say with certainty that he’s doing the wrong thing, but the mental image amuses me greatly, so I thought I’d share.

  183. NMR says:

    “What? You want players you’ve actually heard of?”

    Stennet, Sanguillen, Oliver, and Ellis don’t have any years of control left.

    Sorry.

  184. Bizrow says:

    Well, at least the Reds haven’t gained anything yet in a trade, although getting Votto back might be like one

  185. Milo Hamilton says:

    @Biz

    Yet.

  186. Stickyweb says:

    @radio #181

    baseball-reference has snider’s 162 avg as 21 homers (he’s hit 31 in 242 MLB games) and we are expecting him to develop a little, right? I mean he’s 24 years old. Of course all of this assumes he actually sticks in the majors.

    BTW, I meant to give props to whoever mentioned about 3 hours ago that he may be out of minor league options. Though let’s be honest, unless we get a name florida recognizes, snider’s the best we have. At least until the 2nd coming (3rd, 4th?) of Tabata

  187. Stickyweb says:

    @NMR #185

    “years of control”?

    No soup for you!

    Even if you are talking about senior citizens

  188. cmat0829 says:

    Me thinks these things:

    1) The Bucs will make a move to pick up a veteran RH hitting OF or 1B before the deadline (Soriano anyone?)
    2) The Pirates will finish where they finish this year because of ONE THING>..how the starting pitching does in August and September. Regardless of who the Dodgers pick up or the Giants or Braves….. I’m pretty confident about AJ and Wandy… but JMac holds the key to the stretch run.

  189. Bunch of fair weather fans... says:

    …Lincoln has a 2 mos MLB record as a successful reliever. Nothing more…  Losing him isnt a huge deal with the bullpen depth of this team. Giving up a pretty high ceiling late inning relief project for a pretty high ceiling, LH hitting, outfield project isn’t a horrible deal for the future, but not a great one for a playoff run. 

  190. JMB says:

    On the other hand, Tommy Joseph didn’t even make KLaw’s top 100, and he had him as the Giants 3rd best prospect.

  191. LuckyNKentucky says:

    DD,

    Excellent, my precioussssssss. Really, now is there any impact bat left on the market with Pence gone?

  192. NMR says:

    @JMB

    WOW…the Phillies didn’t get a single Top 100 player for Pence?

    GM’s have to think he’s terribly overpaid.

  193. T.S. says:

    I don’t get why some people are so up in arms (no pun intended) about the Snider trade. Lincoln is a good pitcher, but he’s no world beater. Snider could fall on his face or he could add to the Pirates great home run total this season and be a nice run-producing piece down the stretch. He’s not blocking Giancarlo Stanton. We’re talking about Alex “What’s a Walk?” Presley, folks. And Drew “The Butcher” Sutton.

  194. JohninOshkosh says:

    Anyone care what Larry Bowa thinks? Anyone?

    Big fan of MLBN but could care less what that wretch has to say.

  195. Brad, Indiana PA says:

    Correia still needs to be dumped. Totally unprofessional. Apparently Zambrano is handling his demotion better than KC according to Ozzie. Would rather have seen him go than Lincoln (though I’m sure Toronto wanted none of that). Hopefully this Snider guy produces- of course he can’t be much less productive than Presley/Hernandez/Sutton and whoever else is in the “Right Field Regiment” minus Jones. Would like to see him take over full-time at first if no Clement call-up, steady outfielder in right. McGehee can pass out sunflower seeds. Also, I think we need to give the Fort full-duty next year. Seems poised to break out. And how did the Dodgers go from financial ruin to spending $3 trillion in about 8 months?

  196. JMB says:

    @NMR

    Still waiting for physicals and more details. But it seems like Joseph is the centerpiece.

    Id’ be curious to know how/if Tony Sanchez compares to him.

    JIM BOWDEN ‏@JimBowdenESPNxm
    Newest Phillie Tommy Joseph batting .260/.313/.391 at AA with 16 Doubles 8 Home Runs and 38 RBI in 80 games…blocked behind Posey & Sanchez

  197. Milo Hamilton says:

    When I hear “years of control” I think Elizabeth Smart.

  198. Milo Hamilton says:

    @JMB

    Looks like he’s blocked by his own limitations.

  199. Bunch of fair weather fans... says:

    Doesn’t really mean much but it’s an interesting take.

    @jimcallisBA: Still like both, but regular OF > RP (seems to be Lincoln’s best fit) @bmweiss18: who won the Lincoln-Snider trade? #Pirates #BlueJays

  200. NMR says:

    Good point, JMB.

    Didn’t even think about him being blocked by Posey. Makes the move even sweeter for the Giants.

    I know the Phillies spend, so is it a sign of a jaded Pirates fan to see this move as salary relief?

  201. The Gunner says:

    @NMR #183 & #185

    Man, are you whiny today or what? The bottom line is this: the Buccos better get back on track tonight.

    And who knows what might happen in the next couple hours?

  202. pants-n-at says:

    @ Bunch….exactly!

  203. Mike C. says:

    wow never seen this place so snarky before.

    “I liked the Pirates better when they sucked.”
    - laughed when i first read it, but now….

  204. JohninOshkosh says:

    If the Pirates make another trade before the deadline, this thread might reach 400 or, perhaps, 500 posts before the game thread goes up!

  205. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    I agree with Callis, I’ll take an everyday player with power potential over a RP anyday. I think we all know that this is NH’s strong point thus far, building a BP.

    Though I don’t quit understand why DMac is coming back, unless Correia is on his way out too.

  206. NMR says:

    Somebody get me a bottle. And a list of Florida Pirates known MLB players.

  207. Stickyweb says:

    @Mike C #206

    Yup, the expectations of a winning season/playoffs combined with the BMTIB’s disappointing (so far) trades heading towards the deadline have raised the snark level exponentially.

    And I love it!!

  208. Stickyweb says:

    @NMR #209

    Thanks, I just snarfed some Cherry Coke. Pass the bottle or my head’s gonna explode.

  209. pattonbb says:

    I’m betting NH isn’t finished yet.

    Have they announced what the Phils got for Pence? They had to get more than Tommy Joseph.

  210. NMR says:

    I guess my whining about others whining is no better. Sorry, folks.

    Carry on…

  211. Milo Hamilton says:

    El Caballo is available, again, if you’re looking for an overweight washed up singles hitting 1st baseman that doesn’t try very hard.

  212. DemonDachshund says:

    Just kind of a depressing reality check type of day to me.

    Of the wild card contenders, Dodgers add a fleet. Giants add Pence.

    Bucs add a guy I would have been happy to see added to the team in February, but in the middle of what I’m hoping to be a pennant race, is not remotely what I wanted.

    At least they should get to 82. Guess I’ll readjust my sights back down.

  213. JMB says:

    Joseph has 25 HR power too, per Heyman.

    But, who doesn’t?

    Joseph & possibly Schierholtz (sp?)

  214. The Gunner says:

    @ Milo – 215

    I’d rather have Overbay or Nady than El Caballo

  215. LuckyNKentucky says:

    Milo,

    Take off the overweight and you can have Lyle and your autographed baseball. He was DFA’d by AZ. (Does that make that ball worth less than nothing?)

  216. Jandy says:

    I want a Cap’n ‘n Coke!

  217. pants-n-at says:

    @ Milo (215). But they’re asking too much and he doesn’t want to come here.
    @DD (216). I think many of us are feeling that way. the Braves added too.

  218. JMB says:

    @Sticky #210

    Trade deadline day is Asylum in riot mode. The warden is off in London, and the lunatics get to run around shankin’ each each other (and sometimes setting each other on fire!).

    It’s one of my fav days of the year!

    We’ll all be back in our cages tomorrow.

  219. Milo Hamilton says:

    @Lucky

    Thought had already crossed my mind. The baseball is a safe place at home.

  220. DemonDachshund says:

    Jon Heyman tweets that the Pirates are now focused on bench and bullpen help.

    Makes sense, I don’t really think there’s many big names left, and I’m sure Gollum feels that Snider has met the need for an OF.

  221. pants-n-at says:

    From MLB.com:

    “Busy night of trade rumors for the D-backs. FOXsports.com’s Ken Rosenthal reported that the D-backs are seeking a “premier” starting pitcher and speculated that it could possibly be the Phillies Cliff Lee or the Mariners Felix Hernandez. However, USA Today’s Bob Nightengale reported early this morning that the D-backs are not in on either Lee or Hernandez.” What? I blame the agents.

  222. JohninOshkosh says:

    DD:

    Have to go to work, but I leave with a smile imagining NH as Gollum. Merry Trade Deadline Day and Happy Festivus Pennant Race to all.

  223. Milo Hamilton says:

    Orioles & Phillies seem to have hit a snag on Joe Blanton. Wonder if Correia would be an acceptable replacement ?

  224. The Gunner says:

    @ DemonDachshund – 224

    If that is the case, my gut is the Bucs will handle these areas from Indy – they will continue to play what appears to be smallball as the trading deadline draws near. And, Scabata won’t be back, at least yet.

    Let’s hope the BMTIB makes a liar out of me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  225. Boise Bucco says:

    Seriously though, cheerleaders…anyone?

    Man, trade deadline’s got us in the grip of crack addiction…

  226. Mike C. says:

    KLaw talking about Snider on the ESPN’s Baseball Today podcast. pretty informative.
    check it out

  227. Bizrow says:

    ESPN will have a live chat from 3-4 today, not sure if its an insider option or not

  228. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    Correia might help, but don’t expect anything in return…

    This deal isn’t going to bring a pennant to the Pirates…..I don’t know if they’re done or not but what they’ve done so far, won’t work.

  229. The Gunner says:

    @ Milo – 227

    Who would you propose the Bucs go after from the Orioles in exchange for Correia?

  230. The Gunner says:

    @ Ryan – 232

    I agree – it’s looking like NH can’t run with the big dogs

  231. Bizrow says:

    Just a rumor

    The Reds and Twins are discussing center fielder Denard Span,

  232. tdb1977 says:

    @The Gunner – #233

    Weiters ;)

    *runs and takes shelter*

  233. pants-n-at says:

    I say Snider and KC to Cleveland for Choo.

  234. DemonDachshund says:

    @The Gunner -

    Except it’s not smallball… It’s kind of the opposite of that actually, solo homer ball.

    The team can’t get on base and doesn’t manufacture runs. It lives and dies by the home run. And in response to that, it added… Another guy who strikes out a ton, doesn’t walk, and has power potential.

    They might be able to address the pen from Indy with Locke or Wilson, but then you’re throwing a noob into critical games. If there were anyone they were going to bring up as a bench guy, seems like they would have done so already instead of keeping Mercer’s Cardboard Cutout on the bench.

    I am perplexed.

  235. Milo Hamilton says:

    Here’s how I’d approach this. Correia goes somewhere, probably for a minor leaguer. Then you acquire my mystery lefty reliever, also for a minor leaguer. So basically, it becomes Correia for a much needed lefty. Now, we’ll obviously have to give up more value than we’ll get back for Correia, but that’s the price of business.

    Have I brought up Jason Giambi yet ? Might save that one for August.

  236. Stickyweb says:

    @Gunner #233

    Machado’s probably out, so, I don’t know maybe 2 rosin bags and some pine tar?

  237. DemonDachshund says:

    @Stickyweb #240

    Can we get 2 rosin bags and some pine tar for a bag of bleep?

  238. Stickyweb says:

    @Demon #241

    Who knows? Now’s when we find out if they truly are the BMTIB!

  239. Stickyweb says:

    Fans on both sides seem to be coming to grips with this trade, but this is hilarious from one of those Fangraph comments:

    “If I could be held to one bold quote in baseball, it would be this: Travis Snider will mash immediately and will blossom into one of the best hitters in the game by the time Brad Lincoln takes his next piss. If you watch him, everything is starting to click, which is scary given his talent. This guy could start dominating now.”

    From his keyboard to God’s inbox, eh?

  240. NMR says:

    “I agree – it’s looking like NH can’t run with the big dogs”

    What does this mean, exactly?

    That he can’t personally write the check for Pence, Upton, or Ramirez?

    That he won’t trade Brad Lincoln for a slumping rental player?

  241. JMB says:

    @Sticky

    That would be awesome, but if Alex A. is willing to ship him, I find it hard to believe that it has all come together.

    *****************

    Pence

    San Francisco Giants ‏@SFGiants
    #SFGiants acquire 2-time All-Star Hunter Pence from Philadelphia in exchange for Nate Schierholtz, Tommy Joseph and Seth Rosen

  242. NMR says:

    I’d love to get a high OBP guy for 2+ years in exchange for a couple guys that I don’t want, too.

    Show me where that trade is being made and I’ll fault Huntington for not making it.

  243. Boise Bucco says:

    @Stickyweb, if that indeed happens, NH will get a statue right next to Mazeroski.

    At the very least, we’ll stop talking about Jose Bautista. At this point, I’d be happy with taking 2 of 3 from the Scrubs.

  244. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    Phillies get Nate Schierholtz in the Pence deal. Liked this guy, HUGE arm, lefty hitter.

    Pulled a Corriea though and complained about his playing time.

  245. DemonDachshund says:

    @NMR -

    They’ve needed that particular guy for years now.

    At what point does it become acceptable to criticize Gollum for not finding one?

  246. JMB says:

    If Lincoln, Sanchez, and either Presley or Tabata could have gotten Pence, I would have loved to see that deal, but it’s water under the bridge. I don’t know how fair/valid that comparison is, but it’s the one off the top of my head.

    As others always say, why worry about BNutting’s money. Fifteen million for Pence in 2013 is fine by me.

  247. Milo Hamilton says:

    Yankees have jumped in on Dempster. That’s the best possible outcome.

  248. Drew71 says:

    Could you imagine this place if Lincoln or Snider were really, you know, good?

    That is, beyond hope, potential, former draft position and twitter hype.

  249. Arriba Wilver says:

    OK, I’ve considered all the opinions on here, and have now come to a conclusion. If you just look at Snider for Lincoln, hard to complain. But if this is our big move offensively to get to the post season this year (in addition to Wandy) we in a heap of trouble. UNLESS we didn’t need to make any moves in the first place OR Snider defies the odds and becomes a major contributor beyond the first couple of games (think Drew Sutton).

  250. Drew71 says:

    So this is ok. Unless it’s not ok. Unless it doesn’t matter.

    Oddly enough, Arriba, I agree with that.

    Unless…

  251. GlassHalfFull says:

    Great site to follow baseball media tweets in real time….

    http://mlb.mlb.com/twitter/index.jsp#s=mediadeadline

    This just in from that site…Pirates not actively pursuing Chase Headley.

  252. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    Seems as though Sean Casey is a fan of Snider: “This kid has got some thunder in his bat. Pirates fans will find out pretty soon: he can hit”

    Ah, what does he know

  253. Bizrow says:

    Sean Casey – he’s the Mayor!

  254. 90 minutes left . . . . . . is BMTIB going to do anything to help the 2012 Pirates?!

    Bucs are 3 games out of 1st and Reds CAN’T stay that hot! Bucs are 1st in that asinine Wild Card Game. Right NOW! Bucs have not improved——in fact, they gave away one of their more dependable pieces at a time when other staff pitchers are wilting!

    I like Travis Snider. I have followed him since he came to the Majors at age 20. Yet even after 250 Major League games and 850 Major League at bats, he is still just a “Prospect.” He strikes out once a game!

    I love this trade in November or February, but it’s July 31 and the Pirates are playing for the division lead and/or the Playoffs. Now is not the time to take a chance on a Brandon Moss, Lastings Milledge, Bobby Crosby, Jeff Clement, or Andy LaRoche.

    I hope Travis Snider helps. However, we have 85 minutes to get a player who definitely adds RIGHT NOW!! This is not the HOT STOVE LEAGUE!! It’s July 31!

  255. Stickyweb says:

    If this kid’s good enough for the mayor, he’s good enough for me. As long as he hits 20 cannonballs the rest of the way, of course.

  256. Arriba Wilver says:

    Drew–It appears you missed my point, but that at least explains why you agree with it.

  257. Thundercrack says:

    Don’t Travis Snider and Wandy Rodriquez help the PBC RIGHT NOW?

  258. Arriba Wilver says:

    G2M said what I was trying to say much better.

  259. JMB says:

    Presley & Schierholtz are actually both .7 fWAR for 2012, so they are good to compare.

    http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=6201&position=OF

    http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=5305&position=OF

    Lincoln would have been much better than the P the Giants gave up, and Sanchez would have had less value that Tommy Joseph. So that might have washed out.

    Oh well, no more rioting for me. I gotta go teach people stuff.

  260. Thundercrack says:

    Is twitter hype a new sabre metric ?

  261. AJS says:

    What is everyone willing to part with to get that “impact guy”?

    If your best hitting prospect and a proven major leaguer are required to get Pence then what would the Bucs have to give up? They certainly don’t have anyone akin to Scherholtz in pittsburgh. So Marte and who? The fact that the name Marte came up probably sends half of this group running for cover.

    I have been saying it since May. Unless you are willing to give up at least one of Marte or Taillon, it just isn’t going to happen. And if the Bucs would have been able to get Appel in house, I bet Taillon may have been shipped out for someone. But without that back up plan Huntington held on to his prospects. We’ve heard it from a couple of GMs…Huntington’s biggest flaw is that he overvalues his own prospects.

  262. Arriba Wilver says:

    TC—that’s the 64 million dollar question.

  263. Stickyweb says:

    Baseball America finally has their anaysis of the trade up:

    “Toronto summoned a 20-year-old Snider to the big leauges in late-August 2008 despite a troubling strikeout rate in the minors. He never got his whiffs under control while in the big leagues, fanning in 27 percent of his 917 plate appearances with the Blue Jays, though he did make headway on his contact rate in Triple-A. Lefties still give him trouble, but Snider hit righties hard while with Las Vegas from 2009-11, batting .338/.423/.599 with 25 homers, 41 doubles and a 68-to-86 walk-to-strikeout ratio in 532 PAs against them. (He has a respectable .757 OPS versus big league righties for his career.) Though he’s a well-below-average runner, Snider plays fringe-average defense in left field with a solid, accurate arm—but it’s his plus power the Pirates are buying. His powerful lefty stroke ought to play in Pittsburgh’s PNC Park, giving the Pirates a boost to the lineup at an extremely reasonable cost.”

    Stinks against lefties, so maybe McG still starts against them. And how can you not get excited about “fringe-average defense”? Sounds like RF at PNC was mad for him.

  264. GlassHalfFull says:

    Reds thought to be after Denard Span.

    Hopefully this will be enough to light a fire under NH’s a** to get another bat, but I think he’s done except for maybe dumping the malcontent KC.

  265. tmp444 says:

    TC – if you mean “help PBC RIGHT NOW” in that Wandy Snider>Presley and Wandy>KC/Bedard, then, yes, I agree with you. But, if you are insinuating at all that they are enough for the last 2 months of the season to make a run at the Reds for the division and the NL pennant, then we’ll agree to disagree.

  266. NMR says:

    @Demon

    Gollum is far from beyond criticism. You’re absolutely correct in that the team is without a leadoff hitter and has been for some time.

    But that specific player needs to materialize in human form, not on a blog. I’ve yet to see a deal go down that solves the Pirates need for a leadoff hitter, and they aren’t the only ones on the market.

    I just get tired of throwing around trite phrases like “just get it done” when any one of us would b*tch and moan if that was our boss saying it.

  267. tmp444 says:

    *sorry typo—-take out that first “Wandy”!

  268. LuckyNKentucky says:

    Daniel McCutchen up and Drew Sutton DFA’d.

  269. Milo Hamilton says:

    Drew Sutton DFA’d. Quite the ride for him this summer.

  270. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    Drew Sutton has been DFA’d.

    Something happening?

  271. Thundercrack says:

    It seems to me that some are acting like NH has done NOTHING to help the PBC.

    I would say that he has done something. So if he doesn’t do anything in the next 67 minutes —doesn’t mean he hasn’t made moves to help the team.

  272. NMR says:

    “But, if you are insinuating at all that they are enough for the last 2 months of the season to make a run at the Reds for the division and the NL pennant, then we’ll agree to disagree.”

    Here’s the bigger question: What players WOULD put the Pirates in a position to make a run at the Reds and NL pennant?

  273. Milo Hamilton says:

    @Ryan

    Lincoln & Sutton out. Snider & Daniel McCutchen in.

  274. Reading says:

    A certain network is reporting that the Pirates have picked up Bill Madlock from the Giants for the stretch run.

  275. LuckyNKentucky says:

    The Rays must need Sutton now.

  276. Stickyweb says:

    Yes Ryan, the Pirates acquired Travis Snider, OF, from the Blue Jays. See previous 273 posts.

    Seriously, I don’t think any corresponding move will be announced before any actual trade is announced.

  277. Bizrow says:

    @ Reading re #278 – is that the NBC network?

  278. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    @Milo

    yea, I got excited………

    @Sticky

    Travis Snider?? Never heard of him.

    Snider is in Chi-town. #23

    Sorry Drew #ByeByeDrewSutton

  279. JohninOshkosh says:

    I hope Drew Sutton has good luggage. He’s needed some this year.

  280. Thundercrack says:

    Poor Sutton : Scholarship revoked.

  281. Milo Hamilton says:

    Here come the relievers. Lefty Craig Breslow goes to Boston. I’m going to say this once more with an hour to go – Jose Mijares or Glen Perkins please.

  282. Thundercrack says:

    I hope Drew Sutton never meets Drew71. He seems like a nice guy…and hasn’t he been through enough?

  283. tmp444 says:

    Marlins trade Gaby Sanchez to Pirates for Gorkys Hernandez….Sanchez has a chance to rebound for Pirates…Hernandez not going to hit

    Jim Bowden ESPN

  284. Milo Hamilton says:

    Gaby Sanchez for Gorkys Hernandez is close.

  285. LuckyNKentucky says:

    Wasn’t Breslow in Boston originally? Theo the genuis would never re-acquire someone, would he? How times change.

  286. DemonDachshund says:

    This is not the time for dumpster diving!

  287. cmat0829 says:

    Gaby Sanchez to the Bucs. Gorkys Hernandez and compensation draft pick to Fish.

  288. Bizrow says:

    Also heard our competitive balance pick is going to the Marlins?

    Thats like No. 40 or so in next years draft, not to mention the extra spending cash that comes with it

  289. Lawnbeaver says:

    Wow
    Gaby Sanchez has (and I find it hard to believe I am actually typing this) a LOWER batting average than Barmes.

    Why oh why do I care so much? All they do is hurt me.

  290. pattonbb says:

    Gaby Sanchez?

  291. tmp444 says:

    Ok — we have a platoon in RF and 1B involving McGehee and Sanchez at first, Snider in RF, and Jones filling in depending on RHP/LHP? Or do the Bucs move Jones or McGehee in the next 50 minutes?

  292. Thundercrack says:

    Wouldn’t Sanchez be considered a bench guy who could pinch hit…and hit a home run?

  293. JohninOshkosh says:

    Been keeping an eye on the Cubs transaction wire. Have not yet called up future Hall of Famer Brett Jackson yet. Do you suppose they have some poor schmuck pitcher sitting in the United terminal at O’Hare waiting to see if he should get a connection to take the Red Line to Wrigley or board a plane to return to the Iowa Cubs in New Orleans?

  294. LuckyNKentucky says:

    Sanchez is hitting .202 3, 17 and in the minors. Guys, this is our impact bat.

  295. Stickyweb says:

    Wow, talk about a change of scenery guy. OPS of .556 this year? Granted it’s .200 below his career number, but…Wow!

  296. Bizrow says:

    We are dumpster diving at the trade deadline

    (Bizrow ducks as tomatos fly from many different directions)

  297. JohninOshkosh says:

    Just based on the smell test alone and seeing both of them play-Sanchez is a better player and has more upside than Gorkys

  298. AJS says:

    So will Huntington ever in his career as GM grow a set and step up and trade a prospect? Or does he think all of these prospects will magically be in Pittsburgh all at once and run away with it?
    Oh that’s right he gave up a couple good prospects for Wandy Rodriguez.

    Sigh. Most of the time i can see where Neal is coming from. Right now, with the Bucs in a pennant race and the chance to make a major push that won’t happen very often in Pittsburgh even when they aren’t mired in 19 strait losing seasons, he sits on his prospects and goes looking for bench players like Sanchez. he is sure to be a major upgrade over Mcgee, Sutton, JHay, and Pressley. Yikes.

  299. LuckyNKentucky says:

    DK likes the Sanchez deal. Must be OK. (The Steelers will beat the Ravens and Boras’s people sign).

  300. Stickyweb says:

    @John #301

    Talk about damning with faint praise! I think everybody in here would agree the comp pick we gave up is worth 10 Gorkyses.

  301. Cracker,

    10 games ago Travis Snider was in the Minor Leagues and had been there all season.

    I HOPE that he is better than Alex Presley . . . . . but all he really is is another PROSPECT. There is no guarantee that he is better than Major Leaguer Presley. And now our bullpen has lost its most consistent performer for the last 2 months.

    I’m rootin’ for Snider and the Bucs to be better, but on Playoff’s little game, bet on the UNDER.

  302. DemonDachshund says:

    Sanchez has produced well in the past, but so has McGeheeheeheehee.

    Or is that McGeheeDPDPDPDP. I forget.

  303. AJS says:

    Not going to disagree John, but this is another hot stove February move not a add to my team for the pennant run move. Just like the Snider trade in a vaccuum ther eis nothing awful about this deal, just not what we should be looking for. the biggest loss here is the money that goes into the signing pool that is lost by giving up that 40th pick.

  304. JohninOshkosh says:

    Touche, my friend Stickyweb

  305. AJS says:

    Or is that McGeheeDPDPDPDP. I forget.

    After that 9 run inning it was going to take a miracle to come back. But after posting 2 with only one out and the bases still juiced my hopes were on the rise…until I saw McGehee in teh circle. I immediately said to my wife as tehy broke for the pitching change, “Here comes McGehee to hit into a DP and end the inning.”

    Sometimes I hate being right.

  306. LuckyNKentucky says:

    That pick was burning a hole in Neal’s pocket. You knew he was going to use it before the draft was even a twinkle in DK’s eye.

  307. T.S. says:

    What’s with all the negativity? Gaby Sanchez has been a 20-80 guy the last two years. Sure he’s had a hiccup this season, but let’s slow down. Gorkys is a late-inning defensive replacement who can’t hit MLB pitching. The draft pick is a exactly that, a pick. This is 2012. That pick won’t be in the majors (if ever) for 3-5 years. Good trade.

  308. Stickyweb says:

    So who gets sent down? JHay or Jordy? Can we really survive with only 1 utility IF after carrying 3 all year. Or Elvis and our only back up OF is GI Jones? Or, dare I say, DFA McG? I guess we can’t do that until Gaby proves he’s ready for MLB again.

  309. JohninOshkosh says:

    I agree with you AJS. Way too much love for prospects in that organization. I think this was a year to say Carpe Diem and move a big name prospect to make a move for the postseason this year.

    NH continues to plan for 2014. Which is fine, I guess. God willing I hope that I am still alive when that comes around.

  310. Devil Dog,

    McGeheeDPDPDPDP——very, very good!

  311. LuckyNKentucky says:

    Milo,

    Was wondering if you knew how many “years of control” the Pirates have with Sanchez. (Gaby, not Tony). Is it in your mouth yet?

  312. T.S. says:

    And the Snider trade is good as well. Lincoln is a nice bullpen piece. A bullpen piece. Snider might flop, but he may just kick some ass in Pittsburgh. Would you rather have Jeromy Burnitz? Have faith.

  313. AJS says:

    TS

    I agree with both of your assessments. My problem is that these are somewhat of a gamble type deals. Not the type of deals you are expecting by a BUYER at the trade deadline. I feel like we are getting the same types of players with potential out of these trades as we were getting as SELLERS. Just a substantially smaller number of them.

  314. Thundercrack says:

    My guess is that Taillon, Marte and Cole are the only prospects that would be attractive to team that has a ‘high impact’ player on the block. Do you really want to trade one of them?

    I would think about Marte—but would have to be blown away with the deal.

  315. Kevin Leary says:

    Thundercrack,

    You might be able to include Heredia, Bell, and perhaps Hanson or Polanco in that group. Though I surely agree with you nonetheless.

  316. Stickyweb says:

    OK, Neal. 30 minutes to trade for Jed Lawrie and actually improve your MLB roster for the stretch run. At least once his ankle heals up

  317. GlassHalfFull says:

    Pirates got minor league RH reliever Kyle Kaminista in Sanchez deal..Peter Gammons

  318. Milo Hamilton says:

    Reds get Jonathan Broxton from KC.

  319. cmat0829 says:

    So, question for those asylum-ites who are on the negative side of things….. are you saying you’d be ok to have traded Marte, Jamo, Heredia or Cole…and if so, for whom? Justin Upton has fallen out of favor with Arizona and is not really “mashing” in a wonderful hitters park in AZ….. Pence is injury-prone and is having a down year…. maybe it’s just me, but if I’m trading my “sure-thing” prospects, it HAS TO BE FOR A “SURE THING” acquisition. I don’t put Upton or Pence even in that category.

    Again, the Pirates will finish in the standings based on how their starting pitching holds up.

  320. LuckyNKentucky says:

    Peter Gammons says the Pirates also got RH Kyle Kamniska in the deal. His minor league numbers project him in Indy or Altoona. Onl 23.

  321. T.S. says:

    @AJS

    You’re right, they’re gambles. But most things are. Today’s great performance is not a guarantee of tomorrows, not to wax philosophical or anything. :) For once, I actually think NH has a few brain cells. And that’s saying a lot. Let’s see what happens. I’m not going to cry that Brad Lincoln is gone. I’m not going to hem and haw that Sutton or Gorkys is bye bye. And I’m certainly not going to b&tch and moan now that Presley is in his rightful place — the bench. Let’s go Bucs!

  322. Stickyweb says:

    MLBTR has “The Reds added a closer to the NL’s best bullpen today, acquiring Jonathan Broxton from the Royals, according to Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports (Twitter link).”

    Hey, I’ve heard of that guy!!

  323. Thundercrack says:

    KH #319
    You are probably right. But I really wonder if Bell is in that group – because of his injury.

  324. T.S. says:

    I think Harrison will be the one sent down to AAA to accommodate the Sanchez deal.

  325. AJS says:

    Thundercrack=NH?

    Fact of the matter is TC, that if you want to play ball with the big boys you have to be willing to give up a big time prospect now and then. Just one of Taillon or Marte. Not both. And not for a rental. But that would also require some more pieces.

    With Cole and Heredia I might consider trading Taillon. Prospects are just that, prospects. heck we’ve been complaining about the acquisition of 2 percieved top prospects from other teams. Why do we place so much value on these guys. we aren’t in the days where there is only one good prospect in the system. We got 2 to 3 good pitching prospects. As long as Bell comes back helathy we have a good hitting prospect ont he way. I’ve seen a couple other names thrown around at the lower levels that look promising. Instead of dealing some of these guys for some impact we trade a couple decent trade pieces to Houston for Wandy Rodriguez who hasn’t been the same guy this season.

    Maybe next year after another draft to stock pile some more prospects huntington will decide the time is right to actually make a run at something…but that assumes they get to this point again next year.

  326. Keith says:

    Who goes down now? We have 3 1st basemen, so… deal in the works for McGehee/Correia?

  327. Kevin Leary says:

    McGehee is the obvious man out since he and Sanchez both profile as arbitration eligible platoon 1bs against lefties.

    But can Mercer play 3b? Otherwise we have to keep Harrison up.

  328. Bunch of fair weather fans... says:

    Compare the Pirates roster pre & post trades today.

    They essentially replaced Brad Lincoln, Gorkys Hernandez, & 2 week wonder Drew Sutton with Travis Snider, Gaby Sanchez, & Daniel McCutchen.

    That’s a good improvement and they kept their eyes toward the future at the same time.

    Good job Pirates. Later all…

  329. Mike C. says:

    I sorta like what’s going on… sorta

    A good way to get value for cheap, oops i meant small market teams are effectively using platoons. I think that’s what they’re doing right now.

    vs RHP
    1st G Jones
    RF Snider

    vs LHP
    1st McGehee
    RF Sanchez
    maybe rest Pedro once in a while

    play to your strengths and weaknesses

    sure we want more, something more significant, but this split platoon plan just might work

  330. LuckyNKentucky says:

    Mercer can play all 3 IF positions and he’s tall enough to play first if that matters anymore.

  331. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    Gabby goes to AAA, where Gorkys was…I imagine.

    I like both of these trades if they were in the off season and……..IN THE LONG RUN

    Gabby definetly more upside than Gorkys, but I don’t know if he can do anything with the now.

  332. pants-n-at says:

    @ T.S. I’m not hemming or hawing at those guys leaving. It’s the acquisitions I’m having trouble accepting. Not in a pennant race.

  333. Thank goodness Pirates got Wandy.

    A pitcher having a down year is the only sure-fire improvement that the Bucs made after All Star Game. No building blocks——just putty and mortar and a Brandon Moss-clone.

    Keep trying the Brandon Moss/Lastings Milledge/Jeff Clement model until you get it right.

    Huntington’s right: one of these flyers has finally got to work out!!!

  334. Milo Hamilton says:

    A’s looking to move relievers.

  335. LuckyNKentucky says:

    Ryan,

    Basically what DK just tweeted. These deals are good in 2010 and 2011, but we’re attempting to make the playoffs not small victories.

  336. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    My phones on the charger, so I didn’t see what the twitter feed has been saying……I guess I’m just that good.

  337. I will repeat——I have no problem picking up Snider and Sanchez——in November or February.

    The trading deadline is not the time to weaken your wilting pitching to pick up PROSPECTS only! ONLY!!

    Somebody’s got to win the lottery, right? I guess that is the BMTIB philosophy.

  338. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    Wandy’s not a prospect……..whatdya expect? CLiff Lee?

  339. Brad, Indiana PA says:

    I understand the whole prospect concept, but NH seems a little too enamored with it. Personally I would sacrifice one out of three or four guys’ potential for a proven player. Will give him benefit of the doubt on today’s moves, but if we don’t make the playoffs, time to look for a new GM. .500, if it happens, will still be a great accomplishment for this team. With that said, the reality is if the playoffs started today we would be in, and there’s no good reason we shouldn’t contend up until the end. Even without a big trade, this team has gotten this far and (in theory) should continue to perform well, provided the pitching doesn’t follow the ominous tone it’s been setting recently. If we fall far below a shot at the postseason, NH will have proven he is not cut out for the job. He always talks a big game, but nothing drives me crazier than GM’s using the word “interesting” 800 times in an interview. He’s done some good things and some bad things, but this year should be do or die for him.

  340. LuckyNKentucky says:

    Ryan,

    Neal’s phone is on the charger, too. Maybe he can borrow FC’s.

  341. NMR says:

    “Huntington’s right: one of these flyers has finally got to work out!!!”

    Yep, unlike Jones, McDonald, Burnett, Hanrahan, and Grilli who were all sure bets.

    WHEN IS HUNTINGTUN GONNA WIN ONE?!?

  342. Naje says:

    Torture… you want torture…?

    Doc Emrick calling water polo (ok, not so bad) and Pierre McGuire doing interviews on the pool deck like it’s game 7 of the Cup finals. Ouch…

  343. AJS says:

    I would have traded one of our prospects for Pence. Not multiple, just one. Marte and someone. Maybe that someone doesn’t exist. Maybe it wasn’t going to get done with the Phils.

    Unfortunately a lot of the guys that were on the market were taken off by resigning with their current team. outside Pence there really wasn’t any type of impact bat moved today. Quentin and Encarnacion took themselves off the market. Josh Reed could have beena nice add or even Denard Spawn who now looks like he isn’t going anywhere.

    people talking about Castro are delerious. Or even Soriano. No way the pirates take on that salary and the biggest sticking point for other teams is that the Cubs don’t want to pick up enough of it. I don’t know that I want Soriano on my team anyway.

    Biggest question I have now that it is painfully obvious the Bucs aren’t going to get anyone proven, is will Dempster be on the mound at Wrigley tonight or not?

  344. Naje says:

    NMR…

    Never… and that’s a shame. Guy’s only built this organization from rock-bottom to playoff contender in five years on a NOTHING budget. They had a 5 year plan, stuck to it and it’s paying off.

    But no one wants to give him credit. They’d rather complain about Tabata (but never, EVER Presley), and giving away McLouth and breaking up the run-scoring power of that 2008 outfield.

  345. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    So…the Reds got Broxton, they didn’t do much either.

    Pirates upgraded (hopefully) over AP with Snider. Gabby adds depth and long term 1B issues.

  346. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    @AJS

    You got the extra $15M its gonna cost for him next year too?

  347. AJS says:

    Buster Olney reports Dempster to Rangers at the buzzer.

  348. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    Here’s hoping that Dempster’s gone to the NYY. That way the Pirates get to face Cubbies B squad. Maybe they will hold them to 5 runs

  349. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    Or the Rangers….get him the hell outta Chicago and the NL>

  350. Jay G -Jacksonville FL via New Castle says:

    Dempster to Rangers…………

  351. Milo Hamilton says:

    Ryan Dempster to Texas. Rangers Dempster diving at deadline.

  352. AJS says:

    @Ryan

    Open up the pocket book! We are talking about putting together a playoff team here. For this year and maybe next with Pence having another year. Time to stop hiding behind the budget. Especially if you can’t make the argument that you are spending in the draft anymore. Didn’t they just save 6mil by not signing Appel? That’s half of it.

  353. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    And that’s that folks……..

    The last few months we’ve thrown around names. None of those guys showed up. It doesn’t mean Snider/Sanchez/Wandy won’t help the team.

    This isn’t the splash we all hoped for, that’s for sure, but what do you give up for 2 months of baseball?

    I feel fairly disappointed about it.

  354. AJS says:

    And remember the whole we will spend when the time is right thing? Is this not the right time? In the playoffs if they start today! 3 games out of the division lead which in turn would be the best record in the NL! If not now when? And we were told when the fans start shoing up they will spend on the roster. I’ve seen PNC full on a couple recent weekdays! So what’s the hold up?

  355. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    What if there isn’t any money in that pocket book to cover it?

    Nutting opened his books last year, or the year before. He made $5M. That’s NOT alot for a business or franchise.

    Hell, its not my money……….SPEND IT ALL!!!!

  356. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    I agree its the right time……..

  357. Milo Hamilton says:

    If we can’t hit Casey Coleman tonight …

  358. T.S. says:

    Casey McGehee to Yankess for Chad Qualls.

  359. Milo Hamilton says:

    Casey McGehee to Yanks for reliever Chad Qualls.

  360. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    @Milo

    Ah, who?

    It may take a round through the lineup to figure him out though…

    Pitching always has the advantage.

    $10 (fake) says Cutch doesn’t see anything to hit though.

  361. tmp444 says:

    Snider starts and bats second tonight. Walker into the 5 hole.

  362. LuckyNKentucky says:

    Joel Sherman just tweeted Casey McGehee for Chad Qualls. Must have turned the minute hand back on that one.

  363. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    Now that makes some sense……

    Qualls? Hmmm

  364. Mike C. says:

    don’t like it. if it was lefty, maybe.
    but i guess FO figured we didn’t need Casey any more with the new bats

  365. LuckyNKentucky says:

    DK says “yikes” on Qualls. Guess he’s not a fan.

  366. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    Hurdle’s a smart guy……..give the new guy AB’s in front of Cutch!

  367. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    I agree with the “yikes” on Qualls…

  368. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    Where’s DLee when you need him?

  369. LuckyNKentucky says:

    Is Qualls better than DCutch or Morris?

  370. Mike C. says:

    I’d rather keep Casey for bench/platoon purposes and bring up an arm from AAA.
    and again, He’s NOT a Lefty, which we needed for the bullpen

    I don’t see the reasoning behind this one at all

  371. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    DK’s killing me on twitter:

    “Clint Hurdle’s motto: All in. FO’s reponse: Meh.”

    That’s hiliarious, sad, and true.

  372. Reading says:

    Time to schedule the Parade for the traditional route.

  373. Bizrow says:

    I hope Huntington knows what he’s doing

    But I expect………

    IMO not a good day to be a PBC fan

  374. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    Hey all………we’re still 14 games over .500 and 3 games out of 1st. Its not over, nor is it the end of the world.

    Reds didn’t do much of anything either, but of course do have Votto coming off the DL.

    Pence or Victorino wouldn’t have put us over the top on the Reds, IMO.

  375. DemonDachshund says:

    So an exciting day, as we get a AAA OF from Toronto, a 1B hitting .202, and a RHP for the bullpen who has a 4.89 ERA. We’re a lock for the division now!

  376. LuckyNKentucky says:

    You’re right, Ryan. Time to buck up and win it on the field. (Music from The Natural playing in the background). The games must be played. Can’t win it on paper.

  377. JohninOshkosh says:

    Good news, Robbie B found a parking spot on Clark St and will get some dinner at the CubbyBear before the game

  378. pants-n-at says:

    @OshKosh: Great! We could use some good news.

  379. LuckyNKentucky says:

    24/7 on location!

  380. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    I’ve always been a Gaby fan, to be honest. Obviously he’s struggled quite a bit this season, but……..

  381. tmp444 says:

    Unrelated question: Is this the most commented post in the history of this blog? We’re in the neighborhood of 390……

  382. NMR says:

    While the results are less than needed, I can’t fault Huntington for the process.

    It’s clear that he went into talks with needs AND a limit. When the price went above, he didn’t cave, he didn’t get bullied, he moved on. He didn’t throw up his hands and say, “I tried”, he got creative.

    The only guy moved anywhere close to the good OBP corner outfielder that the Pirates needed is an ageing rental in a season long slump that would’ve cost Brad Lincoln. The Reds passed on the same player at a similar price.

    If there’s a lesson, it’s that you can’t expect to plug all your holes at the deadline. The Pirates have to do a better job in the future of not leaving so many holes to fill.

    Today, just for the fact we’re having this discussion in a season that many predicted to bring 90+ losses, it is unquestionably a GOOD day to be a Pirates fan.

  383. DemonDachshund says:

    @Ryan -

    I like Gaby too. I like every deal but the Qualls one for the long term.

    Long term grade, I give a B for the trade deadline.

    Short term, I give a C. Throw out Wandy, and I give it a D-.

  384. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    but, but……….he “tried”

  385. pants-n-at says:

    @ Ryan: but…. Unless….. However… If…. Alot of that today. If ifs and buts were candy and nuts……

  386. Happy G says:

    381- go to Luckys Sandwiches. Primantis style sandwiches just south of Wrigley.

  387. cmat0829 says:

    not sure where all the “wrist-slitting” is coming from, but I guess you bloggin’ Bucco fans deserve to be negative all you want to be.

    I like the trades personally, and who cares about my opinion, but they are praising the Bucs on MLB Network. Let’s face it — the double wild card is forever gonna change the “go for it” mentality because you can win a WS just by squeaking into the playoffs and getting hot (see cardinals, STL).

    The Bucs are bascially battling 4 other teams for 2 wildcard slots (to simplify, not talking about division battle yet)…. the Braves big move was picking up Maholm and Reed Johnson (hardly earth-moving)…. the Reds picked up Jonathan Broxton but whiffed on Denard Span/Pierre/Victorino….the Cards picked up one LH reliever only….the DBacks picked up one LH reliever…. yes, the Giants picked up Pence and the Dodgers got greedy, but the Bucs are really just doing what most others did at the deadline.

    My request/suggestion…rather than spew out different forms of hate for these moves, be creative and give us 5 possible deals that you think NH should’ve done…. based on what was moved and what the asking price is.

    As to Qualls, he is a veteran reliever who has pitched in the post season. yes, he can really have his issues but the Yankees had him in their pen so let’s not act like he is a total scrub

  388. Mosca says:

    I like the Snider trade. The Sanchez deal is OK enough, Gorkys wasn’t helping and Sanchez might help.

    If we DFA’d Qualls, it still got McGeehee off the books, so that would be a win. BR has Qualls making $1.15M, so if the salaries got swapped that would make the deal a plus.

  389. pattonbb says:

    Qualls makes no sense. Maybe this coaching staff can work some magic with him. Wonder if the Yanks are picking up what’s left of his contract this year. To me it smells of saving money, Not making the team better.

    If I could add my two cents on the other deals -

    I like the Snider trade. Big fan of Lincoln’s, but i’ll take an everyday player with big potential over a rh 8th inning guy 10 times out of 10.

    Gaby for Gorkeys has me scratching my head. Gorkeys might have had a weak bat, but he had value as a defensive sub. Anyone remember his last 2 9th inning catches? Does Sanchez even join the team, or does he go to Indy? Don’t we already have our fair share of .200 hitters?

    Not trying to sound like an armchair GM….oh, who am I kidding, of course I am. How does Sanchez and Qualls make this team better?

    Lets Go Bucs!!!

  390. NMR says:

    The only thing that *bothers* me about this discussion is the over-simplification of the opposite side of the argument.

    Example: “Top rebuttal I’m getting so far: this team not good enough to make playoffs. No point giving up ANYTHING.” – DK

    I certainly do not read all of DK’s twitter comments, but I can’t think of a single person on this blog who has said the Pirates shouldn’t give up ANYTHING.

    The argument that most closely matches the one DK posted has people saying the Pirates would be better off not giving up what it WOULD take to get Choo, Headley, etc…

    There is a world of difference between those two opinions.

  391. Ryan (Nor-Cal Stlrfanrc) says:

    Qualls was just a way to get rid of McGehehehee……I guess we don’t need to keep typing that anymore..damn, fun while it lasted.

    But no, not a fan of Qualls.

  392. Mike C. says:

    The Big Question is : Did we get better than yesterday, even a little.

    I would have said yes, but that last one still has my head scratching.
    hopefully, Qualls will pitch better once he’s out of that joke of a new Yanks stadium.

    still would have loved to see a platoon of McGeehee and Sanchez replace Jones and Snider in the lineup vs Lefties, but I guess we’ll see one of em will flail some more vs left handed pitching.

  393. Thundercrack says:

    AJS, you’re on to me. Crap.

    I haven’t seen the list of players traded but I wonder what major / big time players are on there that aren’t rentals.

  394. cosmo says:

    How many years of control with Qualls ?????

  395. cmat0829 says:

    I guess I’ll say it again, and direct it at DK also… not enough, sorry, to spew hate at the moves the Pirates made —and didn’t make —- you need to assert that you’d be ok with any of a myriad of possible trades, assuming they were possible….

    Are you ok with trading Marte (and likely 2 other prospects) for Shin Shu Choo? (sp)
    Are you ok with Taillon and something else for Hunter Pence?

    I assert, again, that this Pirates team will go as far as their starting pitching will take them. Have Choo or Pence in RF wouldn’t make a difference if JMac continues to suck and Bedard is washed up….

  396. Thundercrack says:

    I don’t get the Qualls deal. He isn’t even left handed.

    And at this point, doesn’t he stink?

  397. Stickyweb says:

    Maybe there’s something to that Yankees joke of a stadium line. Qualls ERA @ home 6.43 on road 3.06. Plus coming to NL should be a little easier than pitching in AL East. I’d still rather have McG for depth I think, but Q may not be as awful as he appears at first glance

  398. cosmo says:

    Pirates gave yankees 250 thousand along with Mcgehe, for Qualls. The pirates giving the Yankees cash, the world is coming to an end

  399. cmat0829 says:

    Tom Verducci, on MLB Network, just asserted that he likes the Pirates position…essentially “the moves they made today made them better”…and 24 of their last 60 games are against the Cubs, Brewers and Astros and those teams are much weaker today.

  400. JohninOshkosh says:

    Over/Under on Kevin Durant’s total points against lowly Tunisa: 40

  401. JohninOshkosh says:

    Moral victory for Tunisia-only down by 6 after one quarter. Tunisia led most of the quarter.

  402. NMR says:

    The Pirates front office has bored its fans into talking about basketball…

  403. JohninOshkosh says:

    @NMR

    Ha! At least I made it a point to use the closest thing to an Olympic themed thread even though the Buccos understandably dominated the thread today!

  404. JohninOshkosh says:

    Truth be told, I think Groat, maybe aglebagle and myself are the only 3 people in Dejan’s realm here that care about basketball.

  405. NMR says:

    Just joshin’ with ya, John.

    There was a time and place when I would’ve been a viable conversation partner regarding basketball. You guys keep me in the loop now.

  406. Eric Bowser says:

    1) Wandy Rodrigeuz for Grossman, Owens, and Cain = acquire #2/3 starter = good
    2) Travis Snider for Lincoln = starting RF that is more of a project than 2012 help
    3) Gabby Sanchez & Kyle Kaminska for Hernandez & draft pick = improved bench
    4) Chad Qualls for McGehee & cash = horrible, better options in minors = wasted $

    The Pirates improved their starting rotation and improved their depth chart at 1B and OF but I don’t think the team found that guy who is going to push this team further than it was already going.

    Really need Jose Tabata to get mentally focused and start killing the ball the other way and play good defense. I really don’t want to see Sanchez, Harrison or Presley in the outfield giving Marte or Snider a day off.

    Let’s hope Huntington made the right moves this year.

 
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