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Final: Brewers 9, Pirates 3

By Dejan Kovacevic | Trib Total Media

Looking ahead to first pitch …

Game: Pirates (70-60) vs. Milwaukee Brewers (62-68)

Time: 8:10 p.m.

Site: House of Horrors

TV, radio: Root Sports, 93.7 The Fan

Here is the live box score.

And here is the Pirates’ lineup vs. Milwaukee RHP Mark Rogers

  1. Alex Presley, CF
  2. Jose Tabata, LF
  3. Travis Snider, RF
  4. Garrett Jones, 1B
  5. Pedro Alvarez, 3B
  6. Josh Harrison, 2B
  7. Michael McKenry, C
  8. Clint Barmes, SS
  9. Jeff Karstens, RHP

UPDATE 5:05 p.m.: Andrew McCutchen has the day off. If anyone takes issue with that, please click here.


  1. Well some have been clamoring to give Cutch a day off, and he gets his two day break here…Presley and Tabata need to be table setters tonight.

    Pirates 3-3 this season at their house of horrors…take the series here and finish above .500 in the Badger state.

    Let’s Go Bucs!

  2. I have felt for 10 days that McCutch needed a day off.

    Now that I see it in black and white, it makes me extremely nervous. Especially with no Neil Walker in the lineup at the same time.

    Go Garrett Jones and Pedro!!! Hit the pelota!!

  3. Got lots of help yesterday from the Nationals and DBacks. Today can let’s add Go Phillies to Go Nationals and Go Dbacks!

    Chance tonight to retake second WC spot lead….would love to start the month of September holding on to a playoff position and continue building off of the Cards series.

  4. Maybe Garrett and Pedro can take care of things.

  5. Earlier today, I said that “torture defined” was the fact that I’m in Milwaukee today and tomorrow, with absolutely no chance of making it to either Pirates game scheduled for those days.

    Consider this, then, torture re-defined.

    The same team I’m traveling with will be at a tournament at Northwestern two weeks from now, but I will be unable to attend. Because of a scheduling quirk, they will have all day Saturday off, so the coach has decided to treat the team to a Cubs game.

    A Cubs game against the Pirates.

    I’m thinking of quitting my job, riding a horse into the mountains, and simply starting over.

  6. Evening lunatics

    How have things been here the past few days?

    Those somofbi^&%, I’ve had work to do the past few days


  7. Interesting that Presley leads off over Harrison or Tabata, both of whom have better OBP than Alex.

  8. Kinda lame, Biz.

    (probably cause I was around most of the day)

  9. Maybe they can, Arriba.

    That said, with two starters out, I’m hoping that Karstens can take care of things too.

  10. Come November Drew, I will be planted here and on the couch for a while

    Now they are telling me if I turn in the papers, they can get a replacement for me for turnover

    Crap, I feel like Clement and Chase…

    Kidding, I brought it up when I first started thinking about retiring

  11. Drew–need to score at least a run to win (or so I’ve been told). I was responding to the concern of being Cutchless. Definitely we need a good pitching performance from our August Ace, too.

  12. Karstens better pitch a complete game shut-out, because with the rookie phenom Mark Rogers on the mound, there is almost no chance these Pirates will score any runs, right?

  13. I see that players were called up today, and I understand that makes them available for the rest of the season. What are your thoughts on the two players called up (Presley and McPherson)?

  14. Agree Roberto. You can’t try to outscore Rogers. You can only try to outlast him.

  15. Evening everyone. I have no problem with the line-up. I think they wanted to give Cutch some time off sooner, but the Marte injury 86′d that. The key for this team is to get a lead…right away, shortly thereafter….but get a lead to help these hitters relax and set up the bullpen.

    Anybody know how this new “mini-IR” works? Does DeCastro have to be on our original 53, then he’s later designated? If so, is there window before all the roster and practice squad signings, or can someone snag our #54 player (not carter).

    South Park via Grove City 1997

    Go Buccos

  16. Your hero, Barmes is the lineup, Roberto, so this is a shoe-in.

  17. The way I understand it, Schmed, is that they will need to keep DeCastro on the 53 man roster until making the decision to designate him for IR. But under the new rules, they can bring him back after 8 weeks. And they can bring a player that was cut to replace him if they decide to put him on IR. I could have this wrong. And if so, one of the smart folks here will correct me.

  18. McCutch has needed this day off for a while.

    Can Clint Barmes now clinch the higher batting average in August award over McCutch?

  19. The part that confuses me is Spence is already on IR….unless they think DeCastro can be back quicker than we think, but doubtful and risky.

    Sorry to highjack the Bucco banter. I got off at 2 and the 8 start makes it seem like a long wait. I only came home to do two things and the Buccos haven’t started yet….I’ll need to review the box score and other things very closely in the morning.

    Pitching seems to be contagious with this team…lets keep it rolling. Great time for day-off for Pedro, but I think he’s maturing before I eyes.

    My wife is staring at me funny and she always hates when the White Stripes come blaring on the surround sound…..gonna be one of those nights.

  20. Playoff roster as it now stands:

    —— 6 Starting pitchers
    —— 6 relievers

    Interesting, since we need only 4 starters in Playoffs.
    Interesting, since BMTIB sent Wilson and McPherson back to AAA 2 weeks ago “to get used to relieving” as it is different.
    Especially interesting if Jeff Locke is called up to start the September 4 game against Houston.

    Not being critical, just observing.

  21. Lucky,

    You continue to get it wrong. JONES is my client. Jamey Carroll is my hero. Maybe you are the one with the secret hero worship of Barmes, but rip him with the crowd just to fit in ;)

  22. I think they think DeCastro can come back this season. They don’t think the same about Spence.

  23. Groat,

    I did the math for you. Barmes has to go 0 for 11 to drop under Cutch’s .252 BA for August. Or if Cutch PH’s and goes 1 for 1, then Barmes has to go 0 for 8.

    Didn’t want you to be on the edge of your seat.

  24. Hey – anyone get these “Your comment is awaiting moderation” notifications? I looked at the two sentences I sent. I don’t see a concern – unless “think” is a foul word….

  25. I am leaving immediately to go to my kitchen and construct a crown out of Reynolds Wrap to present to Bames.

    I will watch the game tonight with a smile on my face and peace in my heart.

  26. How sweet it would be if Karstens tossed a gem tonight.

  27. McPherson surely learned a ton about pitching out of the bullpen since he went down to Indy and, um, started once.

    If they don’t plan on starting him in Houston, the only explanation I can come up with for sending him down and calling up DCutch is that NH thinks more moves makes it look like he’s trying harder.

  28. #13 POZ

    I mentioned the other day they needed to bring Pressley back and give Cutch some down time. I like the move for we can use the extra OF now and in the playoffs. Even if not hitting he can run the bases if needed. McPherson good move we can use him in the pen if a starter is not needed now or later. If Locke was called up now I think it would be as a starter for the forseeable future. So, I overall I believe they were good moves going forward for the run at the playoffs this year.

  29. Hopefully Pedro remains in “Ready? Aim. Fire! mode.

  30. Hopefully, Pedro thinks we’re still playing the Cards.

  31. Wow the Nationals chase Adam Wainwright who goes 2.2 innings, throws 86 pitches leaves bases loaded and Nats up 6-0 on Cards. Phillies early lead on Braves as well.

    @ Officer Mancuso – it would be really sweet…I think we are going to need a good pitching performance in this one tonight.

  32. I have been out of town a lot lately and haven’t been able to check this blog as often. Did playoffs leave this blog?

  33. Does anyone have any additional info on Walker? Isn’t this three “day to day” games with a back issue?

  34. I don’t understand how this team can hit off of decent starters, yet repeatedly fail against pitchers with ERAs of 5+. (Yes, I’m counting Rogers in there as his ERA was at 5.02 prior to these 6 innings of shutting out the Bucs)

  35. I’d forgotten how much I hate Milwaukee.

  36. IF Karstens does not get it together soon we may be seeing KC or McPherson soon.

  37. poz

    Last I heard, this morning, he has isolated back pain, nothing serious. Probably, the day he shows up and doesn’t have pain, he will be playing.

  38. I can watch the Buccos games, but am forced to listen to the home team announcers for most. Brewers announcers are talking about the “liberties” teams take when stealing against the Pirates. No argument here. And now down by two…..

  39. What a BS start for the Bucs so far. And that damn Ramirez continues to haunt us all these years later. Then there’s that idiot Nincompoop Morgan.

    Karstens better step things up………………..QUICKLY!!

  40. no ETA on Wlakers return, they are saying he slept better last night but that was all Could be in the next game or so.

  41. well…there’s always tomorrow.

  42. @ DemonDaschund – ditto

    @ Poz- last I read Walker reported felling better and just dealing with lower back inflammation. I think the thinking was couple more days thus no DL.

    Well there goes the Karstens gem, better hope we can generate some offense vs Rodgers

  43. so much for Karstens stepping things up / might as well chock this one up in the Loss column

  44. So the groin may be worse than Karstens let on?

  45. Ah, Karstens did leave the last game with a groin tweak, didn’t he?

  46. Let me guess….Karstens “re-injured” his groin?

  47. Well that was a brief quick showing tonight by Jeff….welcome back McPherson

  48. Karstens leaving the game. Here comes McPherson

  49. Eh, Rogers is hittable, this game isn’t over. Even last game, he danced around a lot of potential big innings.

  50. This is a great opportunity for McPherson to show them what he has. If he does good, plug him into the rotation……………………NOW!

    Jones & Alvarez better shake things up in the bottom of the 2nd.

  51. Its a long way to go. I predict now that we will win tonight!! Go buccos.

  52. Longvweekend, go nats.

  53. If Jeff was not a 100% confident he could compete or 100% sure he was fully healthy he needed to let team know can’t afford to waste a game.

  54. I ‘m old, and I have a 6:54AM tee time tomorrow, but I won’t log out yet. The brewers have a losing record because they cannot hold leads. I understand the Buccos are depleted without Cutch, but let’s see if the young guy can calm things down for Buccos fans. And let’s see if the Buccos can stop the bleeding and carve into this lead.

  55. I wonder if they make another move tonight. Karstens to DL and call up Locke?

  56. Apparently that day off cost them all sense of momentum.

  57. Attempting to throw out a base runner has turned into a bad comedy.

  58. Really glad to see this team making the right decisions (SARCASM) in a playoff race.

    I’m looking at you (Karstens) and you (Hurdle).

  59. @JRay

    I now remember that Karstens left late in the game last Saturday. I didn’t see any coverage by 24/7 or anyone about Karstens health after last Sunday. Would have thought in a pennant race that someone would have been sniffing around that this week.

  60. Well, if the pathetic throw into center field and the equally pathetic effort byPresley didn’t drive me to the rack then nothing will – short of old age delirium.

  61. Good move by CH either way….let Karstens rest & lets see what we have with these young arms. These teams never make it easy, but at least its still in the discussion with the big P.

  62. Dear Santa Clause,

    My name is pattonbb. I’ve been a real good boy this year. I would like you to bring me a catcher that can throw out at least 30% of baserunners, call a good game, and hit .250 with a little power. This would make me very happy.

    I would also like a shortstop, left fielder, and a thirdbase coach, but I don’t want to sound greedy.


  63. They had better get Locke on the roster before midnight and DL Jeff.


    I have no problem with Barmes. Never have dissed him. Besides, he’s the best SS in the league with your skewing. Have at it.:)

  64. @ RF -and considering it was injury to leg area and groin.

    We are treating this like little league as soon as a runner gets first we are letting them just walk down and take second. This is not helping the future scouting report against us.

    At least McPherson finally gets us out of inning.

  65. So the question is – Is it the catchers that can’t throw a runner out? Is it virtually every pitcher that cannot hold a runner on? Do they both stink equally?

  66. For the playoff roster, how would replacing a DL guy go? I’d have to assume they can replace someone in that situation…

  67. So I am confused…what is the point of sending Clement and Chase to Bradenton? Shouldnt they have gone back to Indy?

  68. Chico

    Roster expand tomorrow so they can bring up anyone on the 40.

  69. @Bucco_Jax -

    24/7 had a Sulia post about this… Players can be brought back up after 10 days, OR sooner if the team’s season is over. Bradenton ends its season Sunday. Indy has playoffs to finish.

  70. Bucco_Jax

    Bradenton’s season ends Sunday so they can be brought up Monday. Had they gone to indy the 10 day rule would have applied since Indy will going to the playoffs.

  71. @JAL and Demon

    Thanks! That makes alot more sense

  72. 24/7 gave a nice explanation on Sulia about why they went to Bradenton. Their season ends in 2 days, otherwise they’d have to be down 10 days.

    JAL, isn’t there a wild card for after the 1st of Sept.? Maybe they’re saving that for later needs.

  73. Sorry, for the repeat of prior two posts.

  74. Well, as usual, the Pirates roll over and play dead when playing the Brewers in Milwaukee. And, as usual, Hurdle left his starter in too long. Another game in the loss column, and even though the Nationals are trying to help, we just can’t beat the Brewers. Every game is sooo important.

  75. Having really bad flashbacks n’at….unless some stray spores snuck in…and we have alliteration folks

  76. Seems like every time we face a former Buc ie Cedeno, Doumit, today Morgan they have a coming out party against us.

    Morgan has not hit all year and is wearing us out today.

  77. @ Matt – 51

    So what part of the world do you reside in? Fantasyland or Hallucinationburg?

  78. How was Karstens left in too long? That’s like blaming the new special teams’ coach for last night’s “penalties,” but not the shizzo to da hizzo, or something.

    I hate morgan so much…ramirez is a pro

  79. FYI – Stinkcinnati is beating Houston 2-0 and Washington is trouncing St. Pouis 8-0

  80. Huntington can’t go into 2013 with Barajas and McKenry, they will need to address the catching position from outside since Tony Sanchez isn’t much of a hitter in AAA.

    Free agency doesn’t look good with Russell Martin, Mike Napoli, and A.J. Pierzynski as the best of the lot.

  81. After tonight the Pirates still face the Brewers 5 times in their last 31….three at home….they need to figure out a way to scratch a few out against them.

  82. Scouting report on McPherson was he had very good control, that has absolutely eluded him tonight, he is all over the place.

  83. @ Schmed – 78

    Morgan is a real chooch. It is looking like a long night for the Bucs. Call a doctor!!!

  84. playoff race and you throw out a rookie pitcher because your veteran wasn’t honest.

    Real smart.

  85. Hang your head Tom Dooley….Hang your head and cry. Or fight!

    Experience (JK)….”hurtin”
    Youth (McCitement)…overmatched

    We’re gonna have to go Clemens or Heredia on this pennant race at some point…lol i hope

  86. Karstens left with discomfort in his right hip, hip flexor according to Bob Costas on Brewer broadcast.

    Can we just go ahead and invoke the mercy rule?

  87. @ Eric – 80

    If the Bucs get real desperate, maybe they can get Sanguillen to come out of retirement. Nutting would love it because I am sure Manny would be willing to play for the league minimum.

    Seriously, they are in real trouble at catcher (among other areas.)

  88. Luckily, my name has been associated with medical professional many times….no worries.

  89. Hey Lucroy…STFD!

  90. Great night to rest Cutch, I would not want him wilting out there in CF with these half hour half innings.

  91. Make Morgan pull the ball….way to get out of it with minimal damage…..

  92. You too Gomez!

  93. @Bucco_Jax

    Just a follow-up on Clement. He cannot be recalled back to the Pirates without a move to the 40 man roster. He was removed from the 40 man when he was out-righted. Chase was assigned, so he can be back without a move when Bradenton’s season is over.

  94. Lucky

    As of Sept 1 they can call up as many players on the 40 as they want. Can carry the entire 40 man roster is they want too.

  95. Do they let McPherson bat this inning? I’d think you would want to get a couple more out of him.

  96. Nice hustle and smart base running demonstrated by JHay.

  97. Way to provide some spark JHay.

  98. @ pattonbb – have to try and save the pen, let McPherson hit.

  99. Where’s the bunt?

  100. Brock Holt’s average is down to .436. He’s only 1-3 with a walk and a run scored for Indy tonight. Not projected as a SS though. Tony Sanchez is up to .234. No doubt he can throw out a runner trying to steal. When did we sign Hector Luna?

  101. If Blue Jays go with catcher Travis d’Arnaud in 2013, Pirates have to be first in line for J.P. Arencibia.

  102. JAL

    They have until midnight to set post-season rosters, correct? Just wondering in case Karsty needs to go on the DL.

  103. Typical Scabata weak ground out like a little girl. Strands 2 runners – Marte can’t get back soon enough.

  104. And I thought Tabata was due for a power display….for shame.

    This team has noticeably struggled with pressure…its a process I suppose, but with so many games, the process can be condensed and reconciled hopefully.

  105. GlassHalfFull

    Yes and no, have to set it but can replace a player on the DL and any player on the DL is also eligible. Almost every team in the playoffs will more than 25 eligible players and they can make changes every series.

  106. Er, why did the Pirates bat McPherson and then pitch Correia?

    Is he a great hitter in AAA or something?

  107. Let’s pick on Scabata tonight – he should have caught that ball Morgan hit. He refuses to hustle.

  108. These throws by McKenry and Barajas are just sad.

  109. and many of us used to belly ache about Ryan Doumit

  110. LuckDog,

    Those “projections” are based on defensive ability, especially for middle infielders. I hope ol’ Brockli shares your passion, and I want a SS like no other (was holding out hope for Castro), but his hitting won’t dictate his infield position.

    I cannot wait to see how many college football games I can watch…I have a secret correlation for determining the proper game(s) to watch.

    I swear I’m gonna break my MF’n Morgan bobblehead and paper weight right F’n now!

  111. Gunner

    Tabby broke back on the ball and the by the time he realized he was going the wrong way he couldn’t come in far enough. Almost came in too far, risking ball bouncing over him.

  112. JAL

    Thx. Also, is the playoff roster deadline midnight or did it pass already?

  113. Hasn’t CH done that with pitchers before??? Sometimes his moves amaze.

  114. Allright Jonesy!! Let’s keep it going.

  115. Jones with a blast…within a grand slam.

    Question letting McPherson hit as well, there was a runner on second, especially if you were pulling McPherson from game.

  116. Managerial moves tend to trend with player execution.

  117. 2nd and 3rd, time to collect some gold.

  118. We have a Brauny mess right here!

  119. Fort with bloopers, couple of ducks on pond, hit here gets us back in it

  120. Demon, McPherson was supposedly a good hitter in college.

  121. What a horrible AB….way too aggressive, but it will make “this” all the sweeter….

  122. ugly swing by Barmes on first pitch.

  123. Guys swinging at balls out of the zone, not going to hit that way.

  124. Ditto for da Barmass

  125. just cannot leave gold on the bases with 1 out down by 4 runs. Not good enough at-bats by Harrison and Barmes.

  126. This is gonna be a huge outing (if not W) for KC….I’m glad he’s there for this siteation. Wow, what a strong pitch-out….no running going on round here yo!

  127. Thx.

    Time for a hoover!

  128. @ JAL – 113

    Scabata is a poor excuse for a major league player. Then, Barmes strands 2 more runners – although I must admit Barmes has stepped up his game substantially as of late

    It is not looking like the Pirates night – they might as well forfeit and eliminate the risk of further injuries.

  129. @Gunner

    As jimmy v used to say…don’t give up, don’t. ever give up.

  130. Eric Kratz with a HR in the top of the 9th off Craig Kimbrel. Phillies now tied up with the Braves 5-5

  131. @ GlassHalfFull – 133

    well, my friend, they strand another runner. And there doesn’t appear to be much interest in this as the blogger activity has certainly decreased as of late.

    Looks like Correia is rising to the occasion tonight. Now, if he could only get this Nincompoop Morgan out!

  132. @ Roberto Forever – 134

    The BMTIB / BMTIS thought Kratz was not a major league prospect – you must be referring to a different Erik Kratz.

  133. Games like tonight spur prospect talk.

    Taillon is now 3-0 for Altoona. Another win tonight. His ERA in AA is 1.59.

  134. @Gunner

    Rogers now out. Time to pick on the bullpen. They can be had.

  135. @ GlassHalfFull – 138

    Yep – their bullpen is falling apart! What a break for the Bucs!

  136. As for the blog activity, it may have something to do with the holiday weekend or the demise of the Window.

  137. 0-6 with RISP. Could be one of those nights like we saw on April & May.

  138. I see Vandenhurk won again. 13-5 and a 2.96 ERA. Sure wish he could get a shot in the Burgh!

  139. Correia is definitely dealing as Mcguire would say.

    Speaking of him….Cards lose 10 zip to the Nats

  140. We still have 3 innings against a poor bullpen. We are gonna win i’m telling ya!!! I can feel it.

  141. Matt,

    You’re right. Veteran experience. MVP this season for Indy.

  142. Matt/Lucky…we have until midnight to call him up.

    Is he on the 40 man?

  143. Another RISP…way to go Gaby! Bring him home.

  144. @glasshalfFull

    No. He is not on 40 man roster.

  145. It’s 11:00. 12th inning yet?

  146. 6 Outs left, 3 runs needed. No problem.

  147. Time for a big inning! Lets Go Bucs!

  148. The only people I’ve ever heard mention Vandenhurk were on this blog. But I live a sheltered blog life, so someone may have mentioned him, but I think they got him to fill the rotation in Indy. Shame. He’s pitched well. 2.96 ERA should translate to something in the bigs.


    We’re on Central time here. Still early. You better take the poodle out.

  149. Why? She’s incontinent. Doesn’t recognize the difference between inside and outside.

  150. ARam puts the nail in the coffin, so to speak.

    nite all.

  151. Wasted opportunity tonight…Braves lose, Cardinals lose, Dodgers losing and we give the game away in the first and than don’t take advantage of a mediocre opposing pitcher.

    if we are to be a playoff team at some point we will need to put a run together and thought maybe after Cards series this would be the time, tonight’s effort indicates otherwise.

  152. Can we get this guy out of there? Come on Man!!

  153. Let me be the first to say, Takahashi was shocked at that result. Milo is out covering HS football, so he’ll appreciate that.

  154. What a wonderful pickup by the BMTIB.

  155. At least he K’d Tony Gush.

  156. ESPN left town and took the Pirates’ impetus for winning. The Wild Card race doesn’t motivate them like being on national tv. Put up a cardboard cutout of Pedro Gomez in the dugout and they’ll look like a team that gives a damn.

  157. Here are the 5 players from the article that Boise posted

    Pitchers Chris Leroux, Jeff Locke and Justin Wilson, catcher Eric Fryer and infielder Brock Holt.

    None of the 5 will be eligible for postseason play.

  158. good thing I went to bed at 10:15 when it was 5-1. At least I didn’t waste my time watching the Bucs flounder any longer.

    I guess last night’s loss makes today game a MUST WIN for the Bucs.

  159. True, Gun. I won’t get too worked up by one loss in a row.

    But two? I’m looking for someone to smack.


  160. Tony Sanchez tweeted congrats to Brock Holt for being called up. Wonder where he gets his info.

  161. Kristy?

  162. Probably. Every. Single. Time. as DK would say.

  163. So much for an easy schedule….lol

    So much for facing a guy the second time….lol

    So much for…..oh shut up Foo


  164. You are correct, sir. RF must have gotten it from her. Maybe he is her.

  165. Drew, I am here if you need me.

    AW, “Kristy” was my reflex response too. (don’t tell my wife)

  166. @Lucky

    Kristy doesn’t work for the Pirates. I do, remember?

  167. WE have run out of must wins.

    The mystery of why Cutch didn’t play might get revealed sometime, the mystery of why Barmes – who can’t throw, has NO range, fields everything off to the glove hand side one handed and ALWAYS throws with his body in motion (because of a pathetically weak arm), and everyone rationalizes about his offensive contributions – continues in the line-up, the always controversial decisions CH makes every game (I suppose with some help from the FO), and the fact that the media are acknowledging our success because of the failures of St. Louis, Atlanta and LA as inspiring hope for the last wild card spot are all PATHETIC.

    This team is a mirage, a facade covering up incompetence and mediocrity, and lousy management and decision-making.

    It is time to focus on football and pray for hockey. In baseball this is another year that was – or more appropriately – was not!

  168. That reminds me of the movie Showgirls.

    Unintended humor.

  169. RF,

    Sorry. I lost myself for a minute.

    Uncle bob,

    Don’t mince so many words. Say what you feel. If I was a betting man, I’d bet you a fifth of KY Bourbon that Brock Holt and Jordy Mercer never see the field other than pinch hitting, pinch running and possibly some mop-up.

  170. bob,
    Just so I’m clear on this, if by chance this mirage-of-a-team sneaks into the wild card playoff game, I should just ignore it and keep my focus on football….while praying for hockey.

    Just want to get that straight and plan ahead.

  171. Bob–who spit in your cereal? Are you visiting Drew and his wife’s poodle? All those questions you posed have been answered numerous times, but I guess if your mind’s made up no need for facts. Enjoy football season.

  172. Lucky, my main Man, you are correct and d’Arnaud was conveniently sent to Bradenton, albeit for just a couple of days, to minimize his possible opportunity to break into the line-up at SS.
    I forgot one salient point about Barmes; for a guy who batted usually eighth (before the pitcher), he has managed only EIGHT walks, and succeeded in striking out 50, 60, 70 times in just under 400 AB’s That too is pathetic.

  173. TC whilst you are praying for hockey, you can throw a novena or two in there for the Pirates making the playoffs.

    AW. your responses continue to reveal truth cannot penetrate you. If you’re happy – that’s all that matters

  174. bob–huh?

  175. AW you are correct – those questions I posed which were really statements I was making HAVE been hashed and re-hashed and generally been accepted as fact, which you seem to continue to reject.

    and to TC on that matter, I was simply trying to make my point that those are largely the reasons the Pirates won’t make the playoffs.

    Of course I watch EVERY game with hope ( but that is a proven wasted cause), but continually there is something that is done that has a negative outcome for the Pirates. I’ll spare you recapping that, but I’ll wager that bottle KY bourbon Lucky is going to give me that you can recall many of the shortcomings CH and the Pirates have displayed.

  176. The Truth Will Set You Free.

  177. Why can’t it be just “The Pirates played a bad game” or “the opponent played better than us”

  178. bob–I was referring to the “mysteries” you talked about–Why Cutch wasn’t playing last night and why Barmes’ plays shortstop the way he does. Asked and answered, even if you don’t like the answers, but they sure aren’t mysteries.

    I’m not even sure what you are now even referring to as “generally being accepted as facts?” What am I rejecting?

  179. I think it is human nature for, um, humans to perceive their opinions as facts. Generally speaking.

  180. TC, because those bad games are becoming a trend

    AW it was my interpretation of your comment to me that you disagree with me about Barmes
    and the mystery of Cutch being absent from the line-up may be different than what CH said about “piggybacking” the days of rest. WE are in a pennant race (at least a push for the playoffs) and there is no logical reason your star is absent from the line-up except for injury – and that is not the case here.

    I hope you do agree with me on Barmes.

  181. AW, the mystery to which you refer @#183 regarding Barmes;

    I am only trying to emphasize that it is a mystery to me that Barmes continues in the lineup when one considers (as I do) all of his weaknesses. And through out the course of this season there have been losses directly attributable to him – which can not be recalled or replaced – which places the Pirates in the precarious spot they are in relative to a playoff spot.

    I know many in this blog share my feelings about Barmes skill – do you?

  182. Cutch has been banged up. Everyone has seen that the past week or so.
    So what does it matter that Clint didn’t come out and say that. I don’t care. Two days off in a row seems better than one in a row. Conspiracy? I highly doubt.

    I am praying that hockey will give more details than it’s ridiculous “upper body injury” / “lower body injury”

  183. Now TC, I just reviewed that last 15 entries, and the word “conspiracy” was not used by me anywhere, so to interject it now is careless. I am only stressing the need to have our best player in there, if he is not injured. Banged up is not necessarily injured.

    I also resent the hockey terminology regarding an injury.

  184. Drew,

    It’s actually “the truth will MAKE you free” but it’s prefaced with “you will know the truth”. A big pre-requisite that some don’t grasp. Exactly what YOU said in 184 above. A Roberto skewing of the facts doesn’t always work.

  185. bob–here’s my opinion on Barmes: I knew when we got him (I checked) that his OBP was going to suck based on his career numbers. So the lack of walks wasn’t a surprise. It was also widely reported. We also knew he was supposed to be a good defensive shortstop, although with limited range. He started out worse than most anticipated on both fronts. Without checking the stats, he stunk offensively the first 4 months. but his defense got better. For the month of August he’s been doing both pretty well. Something I didn’t anticipate was how bad he was going to look at the plate, even when he was hitting better, when he struck out. It’s ugly. But his hitting and defense aren’t the problem now, and he’s certainly better defensively than any of the options, and it’s certainly not clear anyone else would be better offensively based on how he’s playing now. They may walk more (anybody would).

    Two points of view I disagree with–1) get rid of him (or marginalize him) now based on what he did the first 4 months., and (2) the fact he’s doing OK now means the first 4 months didn’t happen. That second one is for after the season, though.

    So where I come out is, right now he isn’t the problem.

  186. @ Bob Hasis

    I agree with you on pretty much everything, the Bucs pretty much have played over their heads & now reality is setting in. Barmes has picked up his game considerably but best case, he is an average major league SS. Limited range and weak arm & couldn’t carry Jack Wilson’s, Jay Bell’s, Tim Foli’s, Gene Alley’s, or Dick Groat’s jock strap. (However, he is better than Dick Schofield, Sr. for you old timers out there – I was never a fan of the Duck.)

    There are many other issues which will continue to be issues as long as Bob Nutting is the owner. Let ‘s just hope lightning can strike twice as it relates to the Bucs playing over their heads for the rest of this season. It sure is fun to watch meaningful baseball for as long as we have in 2012.

  187. bob,
    you are right, you did not use the term ‘conspiracy’. You said:
    ‘the mystery of Cutch being absent” and “there is no logical reason”
    I jumped to the conspiracy.

    Regarding Barmes, I suggest everyone go to the ESPN 970 AM and listen to the interview Clint did with David Todd the other day. Excellent interview and insight.
    And Clint directly addresses the issue of guys like Barmes and Baraja.

  188. Depends on the version you use. Example: New International, New Living, Aramaic in Plain English, Catholic and others = Set. Conversely: King James, World English, American Standard, Websters = Make. Plenty of both. And no fooling; my faith’s version is Set, so that was my automatic reference point. Wasn’t trying to suggest anything about validity.

    Over the course of the past four years, by the way, my baseball opinions have steered from optimistic initially towards pessimistic, this year being the exception based solely on results. But if we are using RF and Bob as our poles, meaning no disrespect to either one of them personally, I would have to respectfully decline. I can’t speak for them as people, just reflecting on their posts. Whatever their intent, comes across as too much anger for me. Whether directed at the Pirates organization or other posters.

  189. Some good news this morning: The Cardinals have lost 4 in a row…The Dodgers and Braves have lost 2 straight. LA has lost 4 of 5.

    The Bucs on Sept. 1 are just a half game back of playoff spot.

    Now time to do our part and get a win tonight behind AJ.

  190. Well said, Drew.

  191. Drew,

    You must have used Bible Gateway! Excellent! :)

  192. AW, I am immensely grateful for your thorough explanation, and I agree with it, and let me just add, while he seems not to be the problem now he is just like the caboose on a train, doing little of value and just along for the ride.

    I wanted earlier in these exchanges to make this point, from day 1 of the season we have been miserable at stealing bases and more inept at preventing them. And while that problem persisted all year long, last night we had an outbreak of it that helped kill us.

    And all year long Barajas and The Fort have been our only catchers and NH did nothing, while CH was helpless to remedy that problem, but CH did persist (I only presume this) in allowing Cutch to run and run and run us out of innings or potential rallies.

    For any opponent down the stretch who saw that example we displayed of throwing runners out, that alone could be our demise before getting to the playoffs or if we are in them.

    This coincides with the ongoing incompetences this team has shown – this is one of those trends I lump Barmes into, as well as Tabata, and while Pedro has been dynamic in spurts, brief spurts, there have been so many games, weeks at a time, where he was flat out disappointing. But I do recognize his potential, and HE needs to mazimize it – soon. I have NO problem with his defense at all. Base-running, maybe?

    But with Pedro I digress.

    So AW if you will allow that Barmes is the caboose we are in total accord.

  193. Gunner, Schofield was a part-time “temp”. something that will soon befall Barmes. But the Duck was a switch-hitter ( a rarity back then). On our 1960 World Series Championship team we had two switch-hitters, Duck was one, can you name the other?

  194. Something similar, but essentially yes. I’m a bit of a nerd about these things but I do that a lot. I like to compare perspectives. In that part of my life, but also with baseball blogging where, frankly, where I can see my opinions more aligned with those who are probably considered moderately pessimistic, but can learn from, and sometimes agree with, those of different opinion.

    Emoticon accepted. Just this once.

  195. Drew@#193

    I have no problem with you using my name to create a correlative or example.

    My opinions are not based on anger, but a plethora of baseball knowledge, and experiences that the Pirates have showered me with – mostly in the last 20 years, but there were other times of course.

    While you may disagree and it may not seem like it, I am perpetually (daily, weekly, monthly, yearly) very optimistic about life. If what I opine here says differently to you, then I am not saying things very well – a diplomat I am not. Me and Joe Friday simply want the facts, and please don’t try and overwhelm (or as one of our astute bloggers has said) or whelm me with illogic or fantasy.

  196. Drew,

    That’s a good approach. I tell my congregation every message, “don’t just believe something because I or anyone else said it. Dig into it yourself. I’m not the teacher, the HS is”. Wish more were like that in every realm of life. Emoticon omitted.

  197. Gunner, I forgot to acknowledge your recall of the stalwarts we were able to throw out there in some of our better years. Consistent, reliable and efficient SS’s that we may have taken for granted.

    I agree with you on those names for sure

  198. Lucky, thank you. I am honored. Seriously.

    Bob, just as sincerely, you had me. I mean, your post (200) truly had me. I was not fooling when I wrote that I try to learn from all. And a number of your opinions? I agree with. Then the last part of your last sentence…honestly that’s where you lose me. We can call that lack of diplomacy but in my opinion that goes beyond just harsh directness.

  199. Drew, I think perhaps we are getting confusing to each other, because the last part of your last sentence is a ? to me.

    Here is what I was trying to say, and if I may use the beaten and bedraggled Barmes to explain; It is illogical for me to accept that Barmes is anything but a journeyman SS. There have been instances where some have tried to pass him off as something way more than he is – to this team. That is their fantasy which I can not accept. Harsh directness is your stance, mine would be calling a spade a spade, as in direct truth. It has been said that the truth hurts, and maybe so with a purposeful intention. My intentions have been to support my opinion, and while I don’t recall any direct comment to you about any of these blog subjects, I have NEVER had any intentions other than to defend my beliefs and opinions.

  200. @ Bob H – 198

    I believe the other switch hitter was none other than #26, Elroy Face.

    As far the Duck goes, he had a great 3 weeks replacing Dick Groat when Groat broke his wrist in 1960. However, when they traded Groat to St. Louis and handed the SS job to him, he was reallly below average regular. However, the Duck had a pretty long career, almost 20 years as a utility infielder (much like Barmes is destined for soon).

  201. Since this is a rarity I wanted to get it on the record. I like what the Pirates did setting up their post season roster. Luckily, I missed the game last night. Time for AJ to shake off the doldrums.

  202. This may surprise you, Bob. But from a purely baseball position, I agree with you re Barmes. Full disclosure: this might be a bit self serving on my part, since I didn’t like the signing from the beginning.

  203. I predicted Brock Holt would not be a September call up to the Pirates.

    Now I know why no one listens to me.

  204. @Gunner

    Duckie Schofield’s grandson is a very, very rich man.

  205. Milo,

    Duckie Schofield’s grandson is very rich, and very overrated in my opinion.

  206. Gunner, and you sir are correct; Elroy is the answer, the man with a domineering swagger when coming in from the pen. And Elroy though our “closer” (the term was never used at the time), he was not above giving up a tying or leading run in the seventh or eighth, and having us win it in the eighth or ninth. Hence in 1959, he compiled an 18-0 record before losing his perfect record to a Wally Moon screeno HR over the 259 ft fence(from home plate) in the Colisseum. I frankly did not recall Groat breaking his wrist, but I do recall Duck was not Groat in any respect.

  207. Did somebody just say something about Brock Holt?

    I suppress not.

  208. Yeah, someone did, Drew. I say he never steps on the field. Especially if Walker is ready soon. JHay has the utility role and CH and most of us like JHay. (Our opinion matters, right?) Plus, to top it off, 24/7 explains it on sulia. If that doesn’t sew it, nothing does.

  209. Nice. And while it’s fun to torture Thunder, I’m torturing Radio on the Penn State – Ohio thread now.

  210. and Lucky, just the way you state your opinion in #214, gives an idea how programmed CH is and we all can see it.

    I for one would love to see how a .400 hitter in the minors tries to adjust to the majors, but CH isn’t even curious

  211. You always seem to have enough torture to spread around.

  212. Is now – as we begin the final month of trying to secure a playoff spot – the time to see how a .400 hitter in the minors tries to adjust to the majors?


    If Clint did that I would officially jump off the “Clint Hurdle Bandwagon”.
    And I would post on this blog every single day : The FO is NOT ALL IN

  213. Yes. Eye. Dooo.

  214. TC–Amen

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