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Wakeup Call: Patron Saint of the Streak?

By Dejan Kovacevic | Trib Total Media

Brief and to the Point …

>> The new radio show today will feature special guest Jack Wilson, the Patron Saint of the Streak in that he’s among the most active of all players with the Pirates over these 20 years with 10 of the worst seasons, including 1,159 games.

(Good luck guessing the only player with more seasons, as well as the only one with more games. They aren’t the same.)

Again, here are details of the show and how to listen:

Station: TribLIVE Radio, online only

Time: 1-2 p.m., each Tuesday

Where to find it: Click right here off your PC or laptop. It’s free, easy, no registration. Just point, click and listen.

Mobile: The TribLIVE Radio app is for the iPhone, iPad and Android. Just search “TribLIVE Radio” in the app store. It’s also free, easy and all that.

Also, Pitt beat writer Jerry DiPaola will be in studio to talk about the Panthers’ suddenly reborn season.

I want you to be involved, too. The final segment of the show will be set aside for listener feedback, and that can be in the form of calls, emails or questions right here in the blog comments below. Best chance to get yours on air is our email: The call-in number is 412-320-7925.

Looking forward to it again.

>> Here’s one of the online banner ads, yours to clip and save!


>> You knew that Collapse 2 was epic, and it felt historic. But ESPN’s Jayson Stark comes through with the goods on the latter count: If the Pirates finish with a losing record, they will have officially completed the worst fall from 16 games over .500 in Major LEague Baseball history.

Promotions for everyone!

And remember, this team needs to go 6-3 to finish .500, or 7-2 to win 82 and kill The Streak dead.

>> Sure doesn’t look like that will happen.

>> It was an atrocious call, one of the worst you’ll ever see, that ended the Seahawks’ 14-12 victory over the Packers late last night. It might even spur the NFL and the real refs to reach a deal.

But don’t cry for the Packers. They’re the team that allowed the Seahawks to hang around all night and, to that final play, Green Bay defensive back M.D. Jennings had ample opportunity to knock that ball down or swat it away. That’s what you’re taught to do. He didn’t. He went for a thoroughly meaningless interception

Look at the replay again: His hands were the first on the ball. He had a chance.


  1. Matt says:

    Jason Kendall?

  2. Eric Bowser says:

    Quick hits:

    – Somewhere, Jerry Meals is shaking his head with the ending of the game in Seattle.

    – Unacceptable results, unacceptable standards for the Pirates and that all starts at the top of the organization. If Bob Nutting wants to figure it out, he’ll have to look in the mirror and ask himself, am I part of the solution or not. $20 million says he banks on P&L than PR.

    – Nutting might ask Coonelly to resign, he might fire Huntington but does anyone have the confidence the team will spend big time for their next Team President and GM? They went cheap with Huntington, a guy who was pushed to the side in Cleveland and now they are just a “few small, minor decisions away” from winning.

  3. RobertoForever says:

    Jason Kendall is my guess as well.

  4. RobertoForever says:

    I think I would rather hear from Derek Bell. His experience would probably have more connection to this year’s Pirates

  5. Hurdled says:

    Kevin Young

    The answer is Kevin Young.

  6. Eric Bowser says:

    @RobertoForever – Actually, I think Jack Wilson is the perfect guy to have. He had some ability but great energy and really good defensively but grumpy losers like Jason Christensen, Jason Kendall, and Brian Giles spent more time grilling him and making fun of his teeth than try to help him to be a better player. Where was the franchise?

  7. RobertoForever says:


    Baseball-reference has Wilson with 1159 games played with the Pirates, and Kendall with 1252 with the Pirates. Did I miss something?

    DK: Hm. I thought Kevin Young was second. My number for Kendall was a LOT lower. Let me double-check.

  8. aglebagel says:

    KY was my first thought, at least once Dejan implied it wasn’t terribly obvious.

  9. Naje says:

    I may be wrong, but I do believe that Jack Wilson may have the lowest winning percentage of any PBC player… and may have endured the most losses of any PBC player in team history. He’s gotta be among the leaders in both categories.

    DK: Not easy to quantify. See below.

  10. Dejan Kovacevic says:

    DK: OK, my appreciation to RF on the catch.

    The answer to this is: Kevin Young had 11 seasons, Wilson 10 and Jason Kendall nine. But Kendall had the most games with 1,252, Wilson 1,159 and Young 1,150.

    It would take forever, but I’d have to guess no one went through a longer, harder stretch than Wilson. His teams were awful, and that wasn’t always true for Kendall or KY.

  11. Naje says:

    Understood… but did you mean Wilson in your next to last sentence? He definitely earned his pay… among the top fielders ever to don a Bucs uniform.

  12. PgherinLev says:

    The BMTIB (if not all of sports) keeps telling us that the team is improving. They are improving and racking up accomplishments in negative ways, too, though. All this talk of the this year’s collapse struck me as vaguely familiar, so I did a bit of Googling and came up with this:

    “In the modern history of Major League Baseball that began in 1900, no team has fared worse than these Pirates after holding first place through 100 games. Actually, no team has even come close. The Pirates’ 16-40 record down the stretch makes for a .286 winning percentage. Next-worst was the 1977 Chicago Cubs, who went 60-40 to lead their division through 100 games, then went 21-41 for a .339 winning percentage.”

    Written by none other than our very own DK :-)

  13. Drew71 says:

    Hopefully Thunder sleeps through the day.

    Jack Wilson? His head may explode.

    On second thought, somebody wake him.

  14. JAL says:

    JAL’s Ghost Riders in the Sky Morning Links


    1- MLB Transactions

    2-MLB Trade Rumors-Pirates

    3 Go Buccos- Pirate News (from external sources)

    BLOGS and such

    4—Pirates Prospects

    Pirates Notebook: Offense Struggles to be Consistent

    First Pitch: The Other Black Hole in the Lineup

    5 Bucs Dugout

    Pirates Leave Houston With 8-1 … Win?

    6 Rumbunter

    We Call BS: If Pittsburgh Pirates GM Stays, No Changes Coming

    7 Rant Sports

    Best Individual Honor Race No One is Watching: Buster Posey vs Andrew McCutchen

    8 The Green Weenie

    Davis Hot; Bats Cold In 6-2 Loss

    9 Raise the Jolly Roger

    More of the Same

    WHY GAVS/b>

    The Pirates and Mets bring their sad seasons to a close together

  15. JAL says:

    NEWSPAPERS and MAGAZINES and Other Media

    11 CBS Sports

    Pirates-Mets Game Preview

    12 ESPN

    Bucs making the wrong kind of history

    13 Chicago Tribune

    Pirates Report,0,7356140.story

    14 Washington Post

    Pirates waste early chances, lose to Mets 6-2 to fall 3 games under .500 (75-78)

    15 St. Louis Post Dispatch

    If the Cardinals do win the wild card, then what?

    16 New York Times

    Pirates Are Trying to Salvage a Promising Season Gone Bad

    17 New York Daily News

    Ike Davis hits two home runs, Jerry Mejia earns first victory as NY Mets beat Pittsburgh Pirates, 6-2, for fourth-straight win


    18 PBC Site

    Pirates three games under .500 after loss to Mets

    Burnett returns to Big Apple as an ace

    19 Baseball Prospectus

    The Week In Quotes

    20 Fangraphs

    Pitcher Pace, and Who’s Really In Control

  16. JAL says:

    Steelers Blogs

    21 Behind the Steel Curtain

    Steelers Vs. Raiders Rewind: Notes from the First Half

    Steelers Vs. Raiders Rewind: Notes From Second Half

    22 Steelers Depot

    - Steelers Look to Get Healthy During Bye Week

    23 Steelers Gab

    More Bad News

    24 Nice Pick Cower

    Steelers MMQB: NFL Week #3 Wrap Up

    Pitt Blogs

    25 Pitt Blather


    26 Cardiac Hill

    Pitt Vs. Gardner-Webb: Recapping The Panthers’ Big Win

    WVU Blogs

    27 Metro News

    Holgorsen Expects ‘Festive’ Saturday

    28 WV Illustrated

    WVU’s Holgorsen: “It is Conference Time”


    29 Sky Sports

    Theo Walcott wants Arsenal stay and to become legend like Thierry Henry

    30 Daily Telegraph

    John Terry career highs and lows: in pictures

    31 World Soccer Daily

    World Soccer Daily: 10 stories you need to read, 24th September, 2012


    32 Pensburgh

    Burnside Puts Pens 3rd in Power Rankings?

  17. Dave G says:


    “You have to have ownership of your own confidence,”

    I suppose that’s especially true if you might have no confidence in your ownership.

  18. TJA says:

    I heard about the Jayson Stark article this morning on “The Fan”. Just read it now. Really, what more…what else…what can…at this point.. anyone say about what we are observing? For those of us “die hard” fans…I have to admit, it’s hard to say…as we have been the past couple years…”that this team is moving in the right direction”.
    It’s very, very discouraging.

  19. Jandy says:

    JAL, good song, love it!

    Drew, TC will be heard from shortly, no doubt..

  20. bdubb says:

    I need to disagree with the comment that we should not feel sorry for the Packers. Seattle is a good team, especially at home. So GB letting Seattle hang around all night is not exactly the same as the Steelers allowing Cleveland to hang around. And the kid caught the ball. So while he went for the INT he did catch it. And knocking it down doesn’t always work. That is exactly what Tennessee did Sunday and we all know how that worked out. I think Chris Carter once said that the knock-it-down idea is totally wrong. I think he was more in line with the other possibility and that was knock it out of bounds.

    Every week these replacement refs work the more money the real refs will get. I know the issues b/t the NFL and refs isn’t all about money but this now will make it more so. Talk about upper-hand.

  21. Thundercrack says:

    Who is the cohost on today’s show? Perry Hill.

    DK, was your crack staff (which just may be you) efforting in getting Kyle Stark on the show?

    DK: The topic is The Streak. Wilson a logical and my first and only choice to discuss. No one on planet more qualified.

  22. NMR says:

    Kyle Starks’ metrics show the replacement refs are actually superior to the originals.

  23. gregenstein says:

    We’ve got kids graduating from college at this point who’ve yet to see a winning season. Even without the Kyle Stark mess, I’m ready for a new GM. 5 years is long enough.

    It’s funny that Jack Wilson basically personifies The Streak. He played hard, got the most out of his talent, and in the end the best we have to show for the past 20 years is a slick fielding, light hitting shortstop that would have been a useful piece on a contender but is by no means a franchise cornerstone.

  24. Leefoo says:

    Jandy….hope you’re feeling better today


    Ben Badler: “Lost in recent criticism of Pirates’ development program: They probably have four top 50 prospects, maybe five Top 100, plus Starling Marte.”

    And that is not counting Josh Bell.


  25. Leefoo says:



  26. dcpinpgh says:

    Why do people think the NFL cares if people hate the replacement refs?

    Watching and complaining = watching and not complaining

  27. Leefoo says:

    Sorry, but I STILL think our collapse should be blamed firmly and squarely on Dejan. Ever since his ‘lock’ comment, we have gone downhill fast!

    Look what happened to the Pens!!!!

    Dejan needs to be kept from any further predictions. Does anyone know who I write to at the Trib to prevent these tragic predictions from happening again?

    Perhaps HE needs SEAL training?????

    True Foo


  28. Jandy says:

    Fooman, I am at work, but this persistent cough will not stop. Going back to the docs for the third time this afternoon. Hope it’s the charm. My ribs and chest hurt from coughing :(
    Thanks for asking, tho, was sweet of you :)

    NMR, agree, with Foo, #22 is good stuff lol.

    Found an article on replacement refs…it’s all GODell’s fault!

  29. Bizrow says:

    I wonder how long, after the season ends, it will take Nuttin to make a call one way or the other on the BMTIB?

  30. Brad, Indiana PA says:

    My suggestion to BNut, hire Gordon Ramsay to come in as a special off-season consultant to cleanse and fix the organization and, more specifically, the food and service at the all-you-can-eat concession stands. I’d love to see him and NH square off in a verbal confrontation of FOX’s new show, “Baseball Nightmares”.

  31. Leefoo says:

    Biz…#29…I thought our season was already over!



    Jandy….my sister in law has pneumonia. One of their neighbors has whooping cough. I pray it is neither!!!

  32. jackdeloplane says:

    DK, your guest should be a 20 year season ticket holder(if there is one). They have invested more in the streak than any player. When I read Hurdle saying they wanted to go 7-3 over the last 10 games, i threw up in my mouth a little.

  33. Jandy says:

    Foo, YIKES! I guess I’ll find out this afternoon.

  34. Leefoo says:

    Former Ref Gerry Austin on the call

    I have 3 words for Jennings, tho

    “Bat it down!!!”


  35. NMR says:

    I wonder if Mac Wilkins is sitting somewhere thanking his lucky stars that people think Kyle Stark made up the Hells Angels stuff and not him?

  36. Fat Jimmy says:

    “Perhaps HE needs SEAL training?????”

    Foo, given Dejan’s history of what happens to franchises after he starts covering them, I propose that Dejan should be kept away from our armed forces. It’s for the good of the country.

  37. Thundercrack says:

    Is Jerry DiPaola on the show to talk about Pitt’s streak?


  38. Jandy says:

    Fat Jimmy ~ Amen Brother!

  39. Leefoo says:

    Jandy….let us know.

    Hey! My sister has a question for you. She is flying in from Az to Pgh on Oct 20th. We are burying my mom in Clymer near where she was born. Are there any good hotels up in that area that she can stay at?


  40. Fat Jimmy says:

    According to Baseball-Reference, Jack Wilson has earned more than $40,000,000 in MLB salaries. That doesn’t include minor league salaries or endorsement deals.

    This is from a guy with a career OBP of .306.

    Let that sink in for a while.

  41. 21sthebest says:

    “Sorry, but I STILL think our collapse should be blamed firmly and squarely on Dejan. ”

    You’re way off base Lee. The Collapse, Part Deux is firmly in the hands of Hal Sparks who threw out the first pitch on July 25th.

  42. Jandy says:

    Lee, let me look at that…I’ll let you know shortly.

  43. Leefoo says:

    FJ….oh, too have been born with MLB Baseball genes….

    Geneless Foo


  44. Leefoo says:

    21s…maybe a combo of the two?

    Z Foo


  45. Leefoo says:

    oh “to’ not ‘too’ have been born with baseball genes….

    Foo not Fo


  46. Drew71 says:

    Who CAUGHT that first pitch?


  47. Drew71 says:

    And Pedro probably swung and missed at it.

  48. Brad, Indiana PA says:

    Foo, Clymer (if you’re referring to the town in Indiana County) is about 8 miles away from me. There is a new Hampton Inn in Indiana. That would be my recommendation. My condolences.

  49. Drew71 says:


    Nobody correct my grammar. Or post Pedro’s July batting stats.

    I’m wrong. I’m ALWAYS wrong. I’m married.

  50. Brad, Indiana PA says:

    @ Foo again

    There aren’t really any hotels in Clymer.

  51. LuckyNKentucky says:

    Z-pack Jandy,

    It’s that climate up north. You need to move down here where it rarely snows, but always blows (wind). No pun intended. Truly, there is as much of that stuff here as up there. The air is cleaner here, but it doesn’t matter. Same germs.

    DK’s miss list is almost ready to add a new member:
    1. This team will hit
    2. The Steelers will beat the Ravens (not in 2011)
    3. Boras’s clients always sign
    4. Absolute lock (pending a couple more clunkers like last night)

  52. Leefoo says:

    Brad… thx…didn’t realize it was that close to Indiana.
    Doesn’t surprise me that there aren’t any Hotels in Clymer, tho. :) :)



  53. Leefoo says:

    Drew…wouldn’t correcting your grammar be admitting we actually TALK to you?

    Just sayin…..

    Btw, do NOT count this as me having talked to you.



  54. LuckyNKentucky says:

    Left out the most important one from the miss list (other than abosolute lock:

    The Penguins will win the Cup.

    Foo is right. NostraDejan must stop predicting.

  55. Leefoo says:

    LNK…I DID point out the Penguin miss in #27,

    And I am not even a Hockey Fan!

    Puckish Foo


  56. Leefoo says:

    Out for most of the day….gonna go test drive some new cars…

    Foo and Driver


  57. Jandy says:

    Foo, Clymer is so small it has no hotels or such. Indiana, PA is 10 miles away, and has Hampton Inn, Comfort Inn, Holiday Inn, Quality Inn, and Super 8 are all good places to stay, with the Super 8 being the bst bargain. I like the Comfort Inn myself. We even have one of those in Duncansville lol.

  58. Jandy says:

    Brad, good job! lol (Hotels)

    Lucky, I already did the Z Pack thing and another stronger antibiotic (the name escapes me) and STILL have this *&%%$# cough! ::sigh::
    Doc better have a good game plan, or I’ma knock him out!

    Drew, you got married, you did the RIGHT thing (emoticon omitted so I don’t get cyber blasted).

    Foo, ahhhhh…hope you’re test driving either a new Mustang GT 5.0 or a new Challenger with the hemi package.

    Ahhhhh…muscle cars!

  59. Brad, Indiana PA says:


    I think there used to be a hotel in Clymer, but it closed about 40 years ago lol… now the main attractions are Luigi’s Ristorante and a Sheetz. There are other hotels in Indiana like a Super 8, a Quality Inn and I believe a Holiday Inn. Hampton is the newest and they have a pretty good reputation all-around so that would be my suggestion.

  60. LuckyNKentucky says:

    Great car choices, Jandy. Absolutely excellent. Foo’s new Smart car can’t match up. Or his Hyundai, either.

  61. Brad, Indiana PA says:


    I’ve been all over your county the past few months for work (genealogy and family history- really nice facility@ genealogical society in Holidaysburg)- man, you guy’s have like 8 bajillion antique shops!

  62. NMR says:

    Foo is testing a gently used 1967 Volkswagon camper van.

    Dazed and ConFoosed

  63. Brad, Indiana PA says:

    I think Foo should get a Honda Ridgeline. Never had one, but I REALLY want one.
    I think DK has a “Warning: Frequent stops at Starbucks” sticker on his car.

  64. stuart66 says:

    I’d like to add my voice to the BVB opinion that this management group should be gone.

    I’m really tired of slogans from “all in” (we’re not) to “We will” (we didn’t).

    I don’t think saber-metrics should be completely thrown out, but I’d be much in favor of populating our farm system with people with baseball knowledge and the ability to teach it. Someone along the lines of Perry Hill. Remember him? I guess we should have paid a little more attention when he refused to come back to this mickey mouse organization.

    I think Neal’s trades have been OK, but the free agent pickup were abominable. Also he is the one ultimately responsible for the fact that players coming up through our “system” can’t bunt, or run the bases.

    Psychologically, I think the players expect to lose. Some might think that a Mgr like Hurdle is the answer to that, but his history, except for one magic year, says that he is not.

    On the plus side, I don’t think we need to be in complete “tear it all down” mode with the players.We do have a nucleus. I expect Marte and Cutch to be supplemented by Snider, and either Tabata or Presley. I can even live with Barmes another year, however we must get a serviceable catcher, hopefully one who can also hit.

    I’m also aware of the fact that the “Seal team” episode would not have had such a negative reaction if we could see competency in the farm system.

    Just the two cents from an old Bucco Fan.

  65. LuckyNKentucky says:

    DK predicted the new VW Beetle will catch on like wildfire again here in the U.S. Foo better stay away from them. There are enough of those fires already.


    Excellent #62. Very funny.

  66. Brad, Indiana PA says:

    Someone mentioned Ryne Sandberg to replace Hurdle if he’s ousted. I like Hurdle, but I think he’s cost us too many games and his use of Chad Qualls just hammers the nail in the coffin. I think Sandberg would be a decent chance to take.

  67. Jandy says:

    NMR is on a roll, lol.

    Brad, yeah the Antique Depot is one place I sop in a few times a year. I’m a Coca Cola collector.
    The Comfort Inn is really nice here…and I like the staff. Worked with them when they got new flooring. =)

    Lucky, hubby never did care for Mopar, but when I made him stop so I could actually LOOK at the new Challengers, he became a new fan. His baby, tho, is the ’68 Chevelle we are rebuilding. Big block, big tires, lots of noise! =)

  68. Jandy says:

    make that Stop in…not sop in…darn cough anyway…more typos.

  69. BarryVanBonilla says:

    Agreed on the Seals. In a competent organization, it would have been a questionable decision. Instead, it is a sideshow in what is becoming a far less pleasant “Freak Show” than 1997.

  70. Brad, Indiana PA says:


    From your sources/perspective, do the players have any respect or, at least, acceptance of BMTIB? Obviously this is a personal opinion, but if NH were my boss I would be looking for a new job (asking for a trade). Ex. I dislike Correia’s attitude with demotion earlier and still think he could have handled it better, but I can understand his apprehension.

    Seems the only players they’ve made legitimate long term or serious financial commitments to are Cutch, a few rookies who have never played an inning of pro ball, and some FA’s who aren’t worth their salt. If I’m Garret Jones, I’m hoping to go somewhere where they’re going to be serious about me.

  71. NMR says:


    Huntington gave Garrett Jones a chance as a 28 yo rookie while he was floundering in Minnesota’s farm system.

    Huntington didn’t blink when the Yankees tried to get Garrett Jones in the Burnett trade in exchange for a few extra bucks off the contract.

    Garrett Jones literally would not be where he’s at today if Neal Huntington had not been serious about him.

    Bad example, my friend.

  72. RobertoForever says:

    Notre Dame has reportedly ended their scheduling agreement with Michigan – first casualty of ND joining the ACC. ND-Mich will play next year and 2014, and then its over.

    They had an agreement to play for 2 more decades, but ND exercised an out clause.

  73. Arriba Wilver says:

    RF—that IS big news., I would think. On the surface, Pitt–Penn State like.

  74. likeabugonarug says:

    Unfortunately, one prediction of DK’s that I believe did come true is that the Broncos would beat the Steelers in the season opener. So must be only his “good” predictions that don’t come true. Maybe he should predict the Mets will sweep the Bucs in this series?

  75. LuckyNKentucky says:


    He has a list of accurate predictions:

    1. Karstens will be OK (half right)
    2. Walker will be OK
    3. Cutch is goo
    4. Broncos will beat the Steelers
    5. There are more, but selective, older-age memory hampers this one

  76. LuckyNKentucky says:

    Cutch is good, not goo. Lord, that’s worse than Jandy’s typos.

  77. Brad, Indiana PA says:


    I think you are misunderstanding my point, and I probably should have elaborated more. I’m not saying NH didn’t give Jones a substantial chance: I don’t think he (whether right or wrong) will ever give Jones a multiyear deal at a rate he could probably get elsewhere after his performance this year. It probably warrants a substantial raise, at least for next season. I don’t totally understand the whole arbitration process and, correct me if I’m wrong since I’m really not sure of his contract status, but isn’t he arb. eligible again this year? He’s not as good as Cutch, but I doubt he would see an even remotely similar contract offer from PBC. I bet other teams would make similar offers.

  78. NMR says:


    No offense, but there’s no way teams would be lining up to give Garrett Jones 6 yr, $50m+ contracts. That’s just crazy.

    Jones is arbitration eligeable, and will be until the 2016 season, at which point he’ll be 35 years old. Any kind of multi-year contract would either buy out his arb years and give the team “cost certainty” or do that while also extending him into free agency, a la Cutch. The latter would be borderline insane since players routinely decline rapidly at that age.

    Buying out Jones’ arb years right now would have three outcomes. One, he continues to match his performance of this season, which his agent would likely request to be paid by. Two, he reverts back closer to his production of the last two years and doesn’t live up to his contract. Three, he explodes even more, learns to hit lefties, and out-performs his contract.

    Which option would you choose if you were the GM?

  79. Milo Hamilton says:

    So the NFL’s officiating supervisor in Seattle last night was Phil Luckett.

    Nuff said.

  80. Naje says:

    Dejan… serious question: could Jack Wilson be another Perry Hill? Is coaching in his future? I know he’s got a young family, but just think he’s got the knowledge and make-up to be a pretty good defensive coach. He was about as sharp a shortstop as you could possibly get.

  81. Naje says:



  82. Jandy says:

    Hey now, Lucky, I resemble that remark :p

  83. Milo Hamilton says:


    Vinny’s helmet / football / Vinny’s helmet

  84. Naje says:

    nice, Milo… forgot about that one… he’s certainly drawn a lot of negative attention to himself.

  85. Jandy says:

    Phil Luckett? Lil Phuckett?

  86. Jandy says:

    Heads I win, tails you lose.

  87. diehard says:

    Phil Luckett is still employed in a position that requires judgement?

  88. Milo Hamilton says:

    Has anyone heard from John in Oshkosh ?

  89. Jandy says:

    Milo, I was wondering that last week….still no word from him…hope all is ok…

  90. Naje says:

    Jack Wilson: class…pure class.

    Come back and be an infield coach some how, some way….

  91. Matt says:


    Great stuff! (#47 & #49) I enjoy the humor

    Jandy-hope you get to feeling better, also may I suggest something that gets good gas mileage? How about a 3 cylinder Geo metro. I bought one at an austion to resale and it got me 52 MPG on the highway! Drove strong but rode like a wooden rollercoaster.

  92. Brad, Indiana PA says:


    Allow me to adjust and explain my thinking. Had to get daughter to preschool earlier so my typing and thoughts were a little rushed. I agree a Cutch contract would probably not be out there, probably not the best example. But I think some teams out there would be desperate and/or dumb, or possibly smart enough to offer at least a 3-4 yr, 25-30 mil term. I meant to reference Cutch more as a guy PBC plans on keeping around for a while and being willing to pay for it.

    Didn’t know he was arb. el. that long. Can he decline arb. offer?

    Anyway, if I were GM, of course I would take the arb. approach. Main point I’m trying to make is if I were Jones, knowing I probably don’t have much time left to make a FA splash, I’d want to cash in on this year’s success as much as possible, perhaps for terms similar to those I mentioned earlier. It’s no secret that FA markets in all sports have been inflated dramatically the past few years.

    If I’m Jones, I see Clint Barmes getting 10 mil guaranteed for 2 years and being hailed by the GM, why shouldn’t I get similar, if not better, guaranteed money? If I don’t, let me take a shot elsewhere- especially since the Yankees would be interested.

  93. Matt says:

    Auction, not austin! Darn allergies causing my typos!

  94. Jandy says:

    Cambria County Matt, thanks for the well wishes. But, please, no Geo’s that ride like Leap the Dips at Lakemont Park…let’s stick with some Big Boys :)

  95. Matt says:

    Actually I am the other Matt.:). Cambria county Matt is an impostor. Lol. This is bicknell matt.

  96. Jandy says:

    Rats, sorry Matt…anyhoo, let’s leave the Geo’s behind lol

  97. NMR says:


    No worries, man.

    I’m not an expert, but my understanding of the arbitration process is that the player submits a number, the team submits a number, and the arbitrator chooses the one he deems closest to other players with similar service time and production. Neither the player nor the team can reject this.

    Seeing as how players literally never get salary decreases through arbitration, all Jones has to do is keep playing and he’ll get the raises he seeks. If it comes time where the Pirates feel he is not worth the arbitrated raises, he’ll be non-tendered, become a free agent, and go for that multi-year contract.

    It sounds like your issue is with MLB contracts in general.

  98. Brad, Indiana PA says:


    I used to have a 4-door metro that was the awful geo-metallic-wintergreen color! That’s awesome! I passed a cop once doing 75 in a 55 zone in that car: I think he didn’t give me a ticket because he was impressed I got it to go that fast. Of course it blew up about a month later. However, it’s also not a bad car to push. Very light.

  99. Fat Jimmy says:

    Suckmeter’s connection blows.

  100. NMR says:


    If you’re looking for a Garrett Jones comparison, Michael Morse is pretty close.

    Late bloomer, similar to Jones, although he has two more years of service time and a considerably more productive track record. He got a 2 yrs/$10.5m from the Nats last year after putting up 31 HR, 95 RBI, and a .303/.360/.550 slash line.

  101. Brad, Indiana PA says:


    I didn’t realize they couldn’t reject it. Don’t really have an issue with MLB contracts, aside from some of them just being ridiculously high. If I were in Jones’ situation, I would just want some guarantee.

    If he has a bad injury or a down season next year, he’s probably missed his big chance. If I were him, I would want some reasonable financial and term commitment from my team, especially considering how money has been spent recently. Though as a fan I know it doesn’t often work that way.

    And I meant to make a cough at Tyler Kennedy when I made that inflated FA market comment, but apparently it didn’t come through.

  102. Arriba Wilver says:

    Brad, on the other hand, the cop may have felt bad for you because you had a geo-metallic-wintergreen color. Loved your last line—easy to push. :-)

  103. Arriba Wilver says:

    naje–I agree JW was very classy in the interview. That’s exactly what I thought when he was done. But I never saw him, and still don’t see him, as coach material. The idea of having him do instructional stuff like Maz in ST, though, sounds like a great idea.

  104. Milo Hamilton says:

    The NHL allowed one walkaway from an arbitration ruling per off season in its last CBA. It automatically made the player an unrestricted free agent.

    Jones should make between $5 & $6 million next year. That’s quite a bargain when you compare it to what free agents with similar stats will make. I wonder if the Pirates see it that way ?

  105. Arriba Wilver says:

    I only found this out last year, and maybe JAL can confirm this: after the arbitration ruling, if the MLB team wants to keep the player they have to pay the salary, but there is a window where they can release the player, and he becomes a free agent. At least that’s what I think I think. And unless they changed that in the new CBA (doubtful).

  106. Milo Hamilton says:


    Once figures are exchanged, you’re on the hook for whatever the ruling. Sure you can release the player, but you still have to pay him.

  107. NMR says:


    Have you seen that estimate somewhere? I know they have projections for stuff like that, but couldn’t find one over lunch. Just wonderin’.

    Jones is a tough call for the Pirates after next year. I can see him around $5m for next season, but non-tendered or traded in the winter.

    Aging, streaky, heavy split, high strikeout players like him are a huge gamble. One year at a time and let him hit his way to another contract would seem fair.

  108. Milo Hamilton says:


    That was just a guess on my part.

    He seems like that perfect Huntington trade guy. Coming off a good season and probably being at peak value. The new GM (fingers crossed) might not see it that way.

  109. Arriba Wilver says:

    Milo–that’s what I thought until I was corrected last year.

    “The panel, without opinion, awards the player a one-year, non-guaranteed contract at one salary or the other. If the player is cut within 16 days before the season begins, he is entitled only to 30 days’ termination pay. If the player is cut during spring training but after the 16th day before the season begins, he is entitled only to 45 days’ termination pay.”

    Read more at Suite101: How Baseball Arbitration Works: MLB Rules Governing the Eligibility and Process of Arbitration |

  110. NMR says:

    Thanks anyways, You hooked me up with that mlb stat site earlier in the season, which is the only place I can find simple RISP stats(thank you very much), so I thought you might have some more nuggets of goodness for me.

    My funny-ish arbitration story:

    A friend of a friend in college who was in the States studying statistics or something asked me to take him to a local minor league baseball game because he wasn’t familiar with the sport.

    When I asked what made him take an interest, he calmly explained that he was working a summer internship doing arbitration cases for the MLB.

    After unleashing a half-drunken rant about the absurdity of the situation that should’ve probably scared him off, he explained that the process is literally a matter of statistical analyses. Find other players with similar service time and numbers, take their salary and adjust to fit the specific case.

    Free agent markets wouldn’t even come into play in Jones case, as crazy as that is.

  111. LuckyNKentucky says:


    You sound like you’re from KY. That’s the way they say it here. “Hope you get to feelin’ better”. Half the people here grew up in Indiana. Still can’t get the connection. We’re two hours from Indiana here. People move here from there all the time and vice versa. From few jobs to no jobs. No pot of gold here.

    So Wilson was a good interview on the DK Hour of Power? Still wish he could get Stark and Neal on there. It might be Hoka Hey for DK from those two Hell’s Hellions.

  112. Arriba Wilver says:

    Lucky–I don’t think Neal would come unless Greg Brown was allowed to come with him. :-)

  113. Matt says:

    Lucky, where you from in Kentucky? I pastored a church in Austin,IN and most of the people there were from Hazzard, KY. Wonderful people!

  114. LuckyNKentucky says:


    I live in a small town about 60 miles SE of Bowling Green. Closer to the Tennessee border than anything else. Fine people here, too, when they stay off the meth.


    I’ll settle for Steve Blass or Walkie. Brown doesn’t have to nurse maid Neal, he sings enough sad songs himself. And I’ve heard enough “cannonball comings” on the highlights to last the entire offseason.

  115. Fat Jimmy says:

    I kind of feel bad for GFJ. He will never get a huge MLB payday. I think NMR’s guess on arbitration numbers this year are about right. And the following year he could earn $10 million, so it’s not like he’ll be in the poor house. But for a 25 HR/850 OPS guy, he’s not going to earn half of what other dudes in baseball will.

    DK: His splits are going to trail him forever. Agreed.

  116. Matt says:

    Lucky, my wife and I are currently vacationing in Gatlinburg. We ate at Sonny’s in Corbin. Excellent restaurant!

  117. NMR says:

    @Jimmy – You’re right on with the splits. Think about a guy like Carlos Pena and the numbers he’s put up through his career, yet never made more than $10m. Jones has a long way to go before thinking about seven figures.

    Lets HOPE he forces the teams hand.

  118. LuckyNKentucky says:


    I don’t know if you or your wife have a love for bears, but I’d suggest you skip Cades Cove. It’s one way all the way and can be a little boring if someone stops in front of you. JMHO, though, so don’t change your plans if you planned to go. Some folks rave about it. Personally, I’ve seen a lot of Smokey the Bear, so driving around looking for one didn’t light a fire.

    Some good things to do there and Pigeon Forge.

  119. NMR says:

    Hey JAL,

    Heads up on this three-part Travis Snider piece from Sportsnet:

    Already learned much, much more about him in part one than anything I’ve read since arriving in Pittsburgh.

  120. Matt says:

    Thanks for the info Lucky. My wife had no plans for Cades Cove. I am just following her around the outlet mall and eating a BUNCH! (Me, not her)

  121. Milo Hamilton says:


    I learned something today about arbitration. How interesting. Arbitration is not guaranteed.

    I just talked to an attorney at the MLBPA & he stepped me through the process. He did tell me of some exceptions that weren’t in your link like the rare settlement before the hearing that maybe guaranteed. But he said that is very, very rare. He also told me that if a player suspects any hanky panky if he’s cut those cases would be dealt with on a case by case basis.

    Your link spells it out perfectly. Thanks.

  122. Nate says:

    Things are changing, karma has shifted for two teams:

    – Arizona Cardinals: Forced fumble on Vick leads to a first-half-ending return for a touchdown. A few years earlier, they were victimized by a first-half-ending James Harrison return for a TD.

    – Seattle Seahawks: Many non-Steelers fan blame the refs for a poorly called Super Bowl in 2005, leading to a Steelers 5th Super Bowl ring. Now, years later, the refs work in dramatic favor of Seattle for a huge intra-conference win against the Packers.

    Packers, Steelers, and Patriots are 1-2. Saints are 0-3.

  123. Milo Hamilton says:


    Well it was Gatlinburg
    in mid-July.
    And I just hit town
    and my throat was dry.
    I thought I’d stop
    and have myself a brew.

  124. LuckyNKentucky says:


    Smart man. Gatlinburg reminds me a little of Niagra Falls with a river and no giant waterfall. Nice place, though. Relax and enjoy it. You can always to to Dollywood on the way out. It’ll only cost you and the wife about $200 or so to get in. The Knife Works in Seiverville is the best place I’ve ever found for knives, swords, etc. if you’re into that stuff.


    Talking to lawyers, huh? Was it Coonelly or Stark or Scott Boras?

  125. Milo Hamilton says:


    His name was Michael. Very nice. I once found myself next to Don Fehr in the McKechnie Field restroom. That was creepy.

  126. LuckyNKentucky says:


    Good place for Fehr.

  127. Milo Hamilton says:


    Yea, I wish he’d just go away & leave us alone.

  128. Arriba Wilver says:

    Milo—wait’ll you get the bill. :-)

  129. RobertoForever says:

    38 years ago, Tommy John went under the knife for that famous surgery. Too bad he didn’t copyright the name.

    Wonder if he really likes being most well-known for a surgery on him. He was on his third team when he had the surgery, but 4 years later moved to the NYY and was a 3-time 20-game winner for the Yanks. 3 out of his 4 All-star appearances were after the surgery, as well as two 2nd places in the CY Young races.

    Do you know which arm required the surgery?

  130. LuckyNKentucky says:


    His pitching arm.

  131. Milo Hamilton says:


    He had the surgery when he was 32, and still pitched 14 more seasons.

  132. Brad, Indiana PA says:

    Holy cow. Just read all the posts on arbitration. Now I know why I never bothered to try to grasp it. Way too confusing for me.


    I was talking strictly about the weight, though. It didn’t have power steering so that part wasn’t so pleasant without a running engine.

  133. Naje says:

    NMR – thanks for that link… great read… very intriguing… inside look at how talent is coached and molded… got to believe some very similar scenarios with Alvarez have been taking place in the past three years….

  134. BarryVanBonilla says:

    Unfortunately, I have no insight at all into the views of the present players. I’m a big GFJ fan–he is a terrific story. He’ll make some serious money the nect few years, but DK is right–those splits will trail him forever. The good thing for him is that most pitchers ars righties.

  135. RobertoForever says:

    Wow, 4:52 p.m. and still no lineup for a 7 p.m. game. Seems very strange.

    DK: Not really. Hurdle often will wait on a single player’s health status before posting it. Probably Neil Walker, but that’s only a guess.

  136. NMR says:


    I was very interested, as well. The author seems to be setting the stage for some kind of maturation, but I can’t say I’m terribly impressed with how Snider handled himself early on. He was super young, so hopefully that stage is past him.

    It also sounds like his hitting philosophy fits wells with the Hurdle/Ritchie opposite field approach.

    On the down side, it seems like injuries are an ongoing issue. He was hitting well after arriving here, only to have the hammy sideline him. Hasn’t been the same since.

  137. Milo Hamilton says:


    Very interesting on Snider. I sum up Part I by quoting the great Rosanne Rosanadanna. “It’s always something.”

    I volunteer to write Part 4. I’ll call it – Travis Snider’s Pirates Homerun.

  138. Milo Hamilton says:


    They’re trying to find 9 guys that still want to play.

  139. NMR says:

    @Milo – Haha, yeah, Part 1 summary just about wraps it up for me.

  140. MarkV says:

    @ Matt

    If you like watercolors or oil painting, consider stopping in at the Jim Gray Gallery in Gatilinburg or Pigeon Forge. Lots of great artwork, IMHO.

    Have a great time there. Its one of my favorite places, though I haven’t been back for a few years now.

  141. patrick(RI) says:


    Maybe we should all catch a jet to NYC and volunteer to play — see if anybody here can ” . . . walk the walk?”

    The worst that could happen would be a humiliating loss — how could that hurt?

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