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Coonelly: Huntington, Stark, Smith ALL STAYING ON

By Dejan Kovacevic | Trib Total Media

Frank Coonelly, the Pirates’ president, just issued a statement that makes clear he intends to keep Neal Huntington, Kyle Stark and Greg Smith in their same positions:

Full text of his statement:

For the second consecutive year, we put ourselves in an excellent position to meet our objective of winning our division but did not play nearly well enough during the last two months of the season to accomplish it. Our fans are understandably disappointed and frustrated, as is every individual in the organization.

As soon as we finish this season as well as we possibly can, we will turn our full and total attention to evaluating why were unable to finish the job and what we must do differently to take the next step to becoming a championship team. There will unquestionably be changes made to the way in which we operate as a result of this thorough critical self-evaluation, but we will not be making personnel changes at the very top of our baseball operations department. Neal, Kyle, Greg and Clint are dedicated and intelligent baseball men in whom I have great confidence.

Confidence in and support of Neal, Kyle and Greg should not be misunderstood with acceptance of another poor finish at the Major League level. We must understand why the quality of our execution and play deteriorated so markedly in August. Finishing was the focus from spring training but it certainly was not achieved.


  1. JMB says:


  2. Dan1283 says:

    This is just the icing on the arrogant cake. I mean, if their plan, or plans, to stave off a collapse has now failed TWICE, especially this year with full focus on finishing, how many shots are the exact same people supposed to get before being deemed incapable or putting such a plan in place? Apparently two is not enough! Five collapses? Ten? We just keep running the same front office out there over and over expecting different results?

    This is positively insulting, and now we know that it is up to Bob Nutting himself – and no one else – to end the nonsense encouraged and enabled by the Coonelly/Huntington regime. I don’t demand that he spend $100 million on payroll. I do however insist that he hold his baseball people accountable.

    This is officially the low point of The Streak. How many more years will we tack on now? I’m waiting with baited breath…

  3. Milo Hamilton says:

    This is the new accountability.

  4. Kenerdivanis says:

    I can only imagine how much the rest of MLB is laughing out loud at this statement.

    DK: No, you can’t, actually.

  5. Milo Hamilton says:

    Mr. Nutting, I’ve finished my thorough critical self-evaluation – I shouldn’t be fired.

    DK: Remember, Milo, Nutting isn’t mentioned in here.

  6. BarryVanBonilla says:

    I wish I could say I’m surprised, but I’m not. The only good here is that Coonelly has tied himself to this group, just as Huntington tied himself to Stark. That doesn’t mean he won’t still be around next year to fire some or all of the individuals mentioned, but he might finally be held accountable as well. I will be interested in seeing how he defines “finishing.” A .500 record (doubtful), a playoff appearance, a league championship, a world championship? If any of the latter three, he had best be prepared to face this same scenario next year, unless his group is able to do what it hasn’t managed to do to date: find real major league talent and promote players from AAA whom they drafted, and who who can make a demonstrable impact at the major league level. Regrettably, they are likely to lose (either through resignation or termination) who don’t believe that it is a good to die. On the positive side, they will own it all, for better or worse, and Bob Nutting will have a much clearer and more definitive record to evaluate a year from now.

  7. BarryVanBonilla says:

    Sorry, the sentence above was supposed to read:

    Regrettably, they are likely to lose (either through resignation or termination) good, smart and committed people who don’t believe that it is a good day to die.

  8. AJS says:

    Alright. here’s the thing. I’ll take the unpopular stance. Or maybe play Devil’s Advocate because i don’t even know if I buy the crap that I am about to say.

    I agree that outside of the top of the draft he have seen nothing of value. That I can not defend.

    But regarding free agents and adding depth to the bench…

    1)As badly as he has performed Rod Barajas was regarded as the #1 free agent at his position. Did NH overpay, probably, but they needed a catcher and they supposedly got the best one available. No one expected Rod to hit .190. he’s a career .250 guy with usually 20 HR per season. The fact that he wasn’t hurt for any extended period of time and had his least productive season is just unbelievable.

    2)I don’t know the truth of it but I am sure there are just some guys who flat out don’t want to be Pirates. No chance at these guys.

    3)They need a shortstop, there were none. My problem here is the spending for sake of spending. barmes for 2 years at 5 mil per? Uck. but other than keeping Cedeno who do you sign. pretty slim market.

    My point being that the free agent market was pretty lousy last off season and doesn’t appear to be much better this coming winter. The market was particularly bare in the positions the Bucs needed most.

    I’m not saying I have any confidence that if there had been some decent bats available at those positions the pirates would have been in on them or even come close to signing them, but at least for this one off season there wasn’t much to be had.

    i didn’t expect NH and Co to be fired. If he was I certainly wouldn’t expect the next GM to blow it all up, but in all reality I’m not sure what I would expect the next GM to do with a bare cupboard and very little in stock at the market.

    Huntington will be the GM at least until we see Cole and Taillon in Pirates uniforms. Those are his aces in the hole. Those are the guys he has staked his career on. If they arrive and pitch well and the team still flops…well then we’ll see a new regime, and unfortunately by then all the years of control for McCutchen will be gone. Pedro will either be into arbitration where he is awarded big bucks or will be a flop, and the rebuilding, this time around young unproven pitching, will begin again.

  9. Pat4Pgh says:

    If the drunkard is right and all of his bimbos stay with the PBC, I AM DONE!

    After 53 years as a Pirate fan, I will NOT spend another cent on anything associated with the PBC!

    I have tickets for the last two games, which I bought in July, and I plan to go to the games and BOO every appearance of any of Nuttings minions!

    For several years, I have gone to games with people I care about to see a team I care about, but I AM DONE!

    My baseball fix will come from the Wildthing!

    BTW, when they cancelled the season due to the strike, I went 10 years without going to any MLB game. I wathced (on TV) Ripken tie and break Lou Gehrig’s record. I only went back because my 6 yr old nephew begged me to take him to a game……

    I have not purchased one licensed MLB or Pirate item since the strike; I buy my Pirate stuff in the Strip District form the streeet merchants.

    I AM DONE!!!!! The Cheapo, the Drunkard, the Egotist, the Nutcase and the Gum Chewer can all go to hades……!

  10. Pat4Pgh says:

    Ooops, the above should have read….” I BOUGHT my Pirate stuff…” as I will not buy anything else as long as these bozos are involved!

  11. Milo Hamilton says:


    Are you suggesting that this was done without Nutting’s blessing ?

    DK: That question is being asked as I type this. It’s being ignored. What say you, Milo?

  12. LuckyNKentucky says:

    Don’t mask it Pat, say what you feel. It must feel good to say that. I wish I could and mean it. Unfortunately, for me, I have nothing baseball-wise to care about around here and I refuse to change teams. Those guys will be gone, some day and, of course, so will I, but rooting for anyone else would be like rooting for the Tennessee Titans or taking a shower with your socks on. Can’t do it.

    I enjoy baseball too much to let these buffoons ruin it for me.

  13. Dadicus says:

    I’m struggling to find words in this situation, but here is my general impression:

    Coonelly could have held off on this announcement until after the season ended. That would have suggested thoughtfulness on his part – time to evaluate the result, reflect on the situation, etc. – all things a good executive would be expected to do.

    Instead, he chose to issue this statement now – before the end of the season, in the midst of a collapse of historic and near biblical proportions, in an environment of intense media scrutiny, guffawing and general thigh slapping, and amidst a general upheaval among the most dedicated fan base.

    The timing speaks volumes to me. Frank is essentially telling us all to get lost and go to hell. I’m seriously thinking of taking him up on the offer.

  14. Kenerdivanis says:

    Any chance Nutting shows some guts and gives Mr. Coonelly the heave-ho along with the rest of the “Best Management Team in Baseball”?

  15. LuckyNKentucky says:

    I think Nutting blessed this. After all this is the BMTIB/BMTIS. He’s the jackass that made that statement. I was gaining a little respect for the guy, but, if he is OK with this, I’ll lose that respect. Not that he cares.

  16. Milo Hamilton says:


    Enormous onions on Coonelly’s part, if true.

  17. JHadar says:

    I hope this is

    “the dreaded vote of confidence.”

    Win or else.

    Not sure that’s what it means.

    But that’s what I hope.

  18. dcpinpgh says:

    i know this doesn’t really matter, but do to the above announcement I am not renewing my two 10 game plans. I will still be a Pirates fan, but I will alocate the money to go to a couple of away games.

  19. JRay3 says:

    I just want to know if Frank was drunk when he made this statement, because it sure sounds like it.

    I love the line there will be changes made with how we operate…ie we are adding IT support to identify in the future leaks from what computers send disparaging remarks.

    Pittsburgh Pirates baseball – Where losing is the one true constant!

  20. BFD says:

    “Huntington, Stark, Smith ALL STAYING ON”

    Of course they are…. let the futility streak continue!

    I could not imagine anyone buying tickets in 2013 based on the buffoonary taking place in the offices over the past few weeks.

    My guess? Instead of Nutting demanding accountability with his BMTIB and himself, he is lining up fireworks, 80’s bands, and looking for good deals on T-shirts for give-a-ways.

  21. JHadar says:

    “We must understand why the quality of our execution and play deteriorated so markedly in August. Finishing was the focus from spring training but it certainly was not achieved.”

    Yes, figure that out!

  22. JRay3 says:

    @ JHadar – knowing ‘ol Frank they can discuss over drinks when the season concludes.

    Probably had something to do with not finding their inner hippie.

  23. JHadar says:

    Hey hokey

  24. Seconded @JHadar! Even if they do stay on, someone needs to look really hard as to WHY this club consistently does not play good baseball during August AND September. Especially during this streak, those two months out of any seem to always be problems. They have on occasion started out slow, too, but not as bad as the last two months.

    I really can’t put my finger on it either, but maybe get Dan Fox to do his computer magic on the data. Is it from injuries, too many young guys just getting tired out, too many young guys period, etc.

  25. JD says:

    BFD – I will be buying tickets in 2013, as I expect many others to do as well. Although the season ended on a downer, it sure was fun for awhile. I might even take my kids to see the fireworks. We’ll have a great evening in the best ballpark in baseball.

    Go Bucs!

  26. Bizrow says:

    Typical BMTIB arrogance

    Some poor schmuck in Podunk will lose his job though

    I think I will start collecting a list of Nealisms that we will hear during the off season

  27. JMB says:

    Always next year

  28. T.S. says:

    The Pirates are close to striking out 20 years in a row. The question now becomes, does Mr. Nutting have the balls to fire them all? Or does he let Franky C have his way?

  29. madturk says:

    Let’s go for a third year in a row. What do you say? 3 for a quarter! Come one come all let’s play ball. or something close to it

  30. T.S. says:

    I bet FC denies he had a DUI, too. His statement is the height of arrogance.

  31. T.S. says:

    I think DK’s story/entry will set the record for comments on this here blog.

  32. Reading says:

    Hoka Hey! We’re all gonna stay!

  33. Bradthedad says:

    DK – you’ve tantalized us. Heard anything yet?

  34. RobertoForever says:

    I will be renewing my season ticket plan for next year. And I am looking forward to coming to Pittsburgh for this weekend’s games. Hopefully, the Bucs will improve on the 10-2 record for games when I can personally root for them at PNC.

    I predicted 77 wins in the preseason. Bucs may still beat it.

    I also plan on continuing to comment about the game on the game thread. Glad there is a separate’venting’ thread for those who want to talk about bigger issues than the 9 innings tonight.

  35. JHadar says:

    P4P — How many years did you boycott when they traded Groat and Hoak?

    Seriously — I don’t like what’s happening to this club, what we’ve been through for 20 years, or all, maybe not even most of, the decisions they’ve made.

    But this is the end of the 56th season that I’ve followed them.

    Living where I do, I don’t get to see them much but on TV, and even that doesn’t work out too often. I can’t imagine being in Pittsburgh and not going to a game or two. (I can’t imagine wanting to live in a city either, but that’s a whole other topic of discussion.)

    I hoped Bob Bailey was going to work out, but he didn’t.

    The closest I came to quitting though was the drug scandal. Not some bad management decision.

    I didn’t like it when they let Ramirez walk. I wanted the whole front office gone — but I didn’t quit rooting for the guys on the field.

    I knew they were playing over their heads this year, and still I got my hopes up.

    I agree it’s time for a house cleaning.

    But that’s all.

    I’ll not be changing teams today.

  36. BarryVanBonilla says:

    While logic tells you Frank Coonelly would never make such a statement without Nutting’s approval, you have to know Frank Coonelly for this to make sense. He is a confident, assertive individual, and is fully capable of rationality that as chief executive officer, he is empowered to make this decision. So if the thinks he might be fired in a year, he rolls the dice and tries to pre-empt any further deliberation by creating facts on the ground, confronting Nutting with a fait accompli, whatever cliche you prefer. Yeah, its risky but if he is worried that he will be fired, why not act boldly? If he is fired, he can say his understanding was that as CEO, this was his decision to make, and if Nutting believes his decision was wrong it probably is best that he leave.

    Is all of this likely? Nah. Is it possible? Hell yeah. I’ve seen it before in corporate life.

  37. Dave says:

    There are no real promising prospects (excluding pitchers) in the Pirates organization. What does the current GM and Pres have to show for years of high draft picks. Several knowledgable baseball people, some scouts, some who have helped other teams developed baseball talent, all have said the Pirates need to clean house. Their pitchers from class A to the majors are horrible at holding runners close and are painfully slow to home plate. Because of this they are last at throwing out base runners at every level. When people who cover baseball are saying the Pirates are doing a terrible job teaching fundamentals then its time to take notice. Every coach from class A to the majors should be fired.

  38. JD says:

    Roberto – nice post. I knew you’d come through. Go Bucs!

  39. The Gunner says:

    @ JRay3 – 19

    HA HA HA HA HA! I, too, wondered if Frank was s***faced when he made that statement.

    Now, we’ll see if Robert Nutjob has any cogliones to overrule his sloppy drunk President.


  40. Pat4Pgh says:

    Whilst hating their baseball moves, I gotta give the FO (below Nutting) credit for GUTS!

    They have tied themselves together in a way that almost rerquires NUtting to fire all of them. Neal supports Kyle and Greeg, Frank supports Neal plus Kyle and Greg!

    Frank effectively told Nutting this afternoon “If you get rid of one of us you ahve to get rid of all of us”.

    Gutsy, and maybe clever….let’s hope a little to clever!

    It is now up to Nutting!!!!! But it has always been up to him…..

  41. BarryVanBonilla says:

    Grrrr. Meant to say:

    He is a confident, assertive individual, and is fully capable of rationalizing that as chief executive officer, he is empowered to make this decision. So if the thinks he might be fired in a week…

  42. Eric Bowser says:

    Dejan – You know me well, this is bordering on the absurd and just about on par with the McClatchy years with Bonifay and Littlefield. They think issuing a press release/statement is like waving a hand in front of your face and saying, you see nothing, you know nothing… move along, your opinion means nothing and we think very lttle of you.

    Congratulations Bob Nutting!

  43. Pat4Pgh says:


    Noting that have done – even the lowpoint of the drug trials – has ticked me off the way the FO has this year!

    I will hope the players do well, but will not give any of my money to Mr Nutting!

  44. Pat4Pgh says:


    The above should read “NOTHING that they have done…”. Typing is not one of my fortes…….

  45. T.S. says:

    Fire in the hole! Duck for cover! Greg Brown is going to have a field day with this charade tonight. Ugh.

  46. BFD says:

    September 26th, 2012 – 6:14 pm BFD – I will be buying tickets in 2013, as I expect many others to do as well. Although the season ended on a downer, it sure was fun for awhile. I might even take my kids to see the fireworks. We’ll have a great evening in the best ballpark in baseball.

    Go Bucs!

    well JD. you can thank yourself for financially supporting this nonsense then.

  47. Brad, Indiana PA says:

    I pretty much stayed away today. Didn’t have the energy to discuss much PBC stuff. Been too depressing. Though I was secretly holding my breath waiting to hear Neal had been canned. Now Frank the Stank issues this bullshirt? I don’t even know what to say. And why are his eyes barely open in his pic above? My buddy looks like that before he passes out at the bar.

    If BNut endorsed this, shame on him. If not, it’s time to grow a pair and get rid of these clowns. Not at the end of the season- NOW. I thought they deserved that benefit a few weeks ago. Not anymore. That consideration should be as substantial as an arrogant, incompetent GM’s metrics saying we should have only been 8 over .500 at ASB. Does NH think he’s freakin Nostradamus?

    At this point it’s either total arrogance, utter disregard for reality, or just pure insanity that’s running this club. Pompeanni made a good point that yeah it’s a private business, but when much of your revenue comes from the public, there’s a legitimate public stake in that business, i.e. these boneheads have some obligation to the public. And when NH insinuates that fans aren’t smart enough to understand baseball we’re also a menace to his family, that’s obviously not a concern.

    Hopefully this is just Frank the Dank’s effort at being bold and he just sealed his fate along with those of his cronies. Step up BNut!

  48. ron says:

    Great day for bucs fans . Let the baseball men do there job and let reporters just report .

  49. patrick(RI) says:

    I would be pleased if the whole group goes, but I find some of the ire misdirected toward personal, non-baseball misdeeds. A DUI arrest means the man was drunk and made a serious mistake. I do not think labeling him a “drunkard” is helpful to the cause. imho

  50. Milo Hamilton says:

    “There are loads of reasons and explanations, but the bottom line is we’re not playing acceptable baseball. There is nothing acceptable about the way we’ve played the last couple weeks. We recognize that, and we’re going to do everything we can to correct that.”

    -Bob Nutting to Karen Price & Rob Biertempfel 9/15/12.

    DK: Had almost forgotten about that one. Well, in fairness, they did take all of nine days to formulate UNCONDITIONAL support for the men in charge.

  51. RobertoForever says:


    Agreed. One would think that actually makes him sympathetic to the organization. And it undermines the credibility of any criticism.

  52. Nate83 says:


    All the coaches where fired when they didn’t see eye to eye with Stark’s methods. These are his guys. Stark in my opinion is the one that has to go for sure and Connelly as well. Hurdle and NH I’m on the fence about. The baseball people laughing at us are doing so not because of the plan and the drafting but instead because of the methods used to teach fundamentals.

  53. The Gunner says:

    @ Brad – 47

    You are right about Tipsy Frank’s picture. He must have been drinking all day to get the courage to make his statement about his cronies NH & KS.

    Let’s hope Sir Nutsack is sharpening his ax so it’s a nice, quick, and clean job when he whacks these three stooges running the Bucs. I wouldn’t hold my breath!

  54. Brad, Indiana PA says:

    A moment in the mind of Neal Huntington…

    “What a beautiful day. No cares, no worries… OOPS! I think I just stepped in dog sh… Looks like dog sh…. Smells like dog sh… No, my metrics tell me it can’t possibly be dog sh…”

  55. TJA says:

    Wow. I bet my boss fires me if I do a bad job.

  56. Milo Hamilton says:


    Let me know when we hire some.

  57. JoeyBats says:

    Your move…Bob Nutting

  58. Brad, Indiana PA says:

    I second Milo’s 56.

    @DK, When are we gona know if BNut approved this message? (no political pun intended)

  59. aglebagel says:

    Well, this makes it a pretty easy decision for Nutting on Coonelly’s job as well…

  60. TJA says:

    Maybe this front office management team has something special up their sleeve for 2013???

  61. aglebagel says:

    Btw, the headline right now on the Pirates’ homepage reads:

    “Locke trying to leave the door open for postseason hopes”

    You’ve got to be kidding me.

  62. Brad, Indiana PA says:

    3 glaring issues with the 3 paragraphs in Frank’s statement:

    1. Mostly correct. However, your GM does not exude disappointment or frustration when he metrically expected to only be 8 games over .500 at All-Star Break. He stated he’s ok with “progress”. Considering Pirates success over last 2 decades, that’s not saying much.

    2. Wrong, wrong, and WRONG.

    3. “Confidence in and support of Neal, Kyle and Greg should not be misunderstood with acceptance of another poor finish at the Major League level.”

    On the contrary, that’s exactly what it means.

    “We must understand why the quality of our execution and play deteriorated so markedly in August.”

    That should have been fixed last year. You succeeded in turning a collapse into an epic meltdown.

    “Finishing was the focus from spring training but it certainly was not achieved.”

    At least you got one right.

  63. TJA says:

    Mario Lemieux and Ron Burkle anyone? How about Mark Cuban?

  64. PgherinLev says:

    @Ron re. 48:
    Columnist ≠ Reporter

  65. Sec.143RowMSeat24 says:

    BTW, that previous post of mine isn’t an opinion. Just posting the link .

  66. pghboyinca says:

    Thgis is just plain pathetic no matter what the genesis of the decision. If Nuittig made trhe call he needs to be the one saying he is keeping all including Coonelly. After Coonelly embarrassing the club recently and the Pirates sweping it under the rug until they had to acknowledge “Captain Morgan ” is the last guy to be the face of this franchise staying the course. He was unable to understand the correlation of too much to drink and driving an automobile recently. Great spokesperson.

    if he indeed took it upon himself he needs to be fired ASAP. Ho wcrazy i sithtat you have Huntington strongly tieing himself to Stark et al and now Coonelly tieing himself to that whole group? 5 years in and the product is disgustingly bad and the process they employ is hte laughingstock in all of baseball yet they fall all over themsleves saying what good baseball men they are. WTF?

  67. In his novel *1984*, George Orwell coined the term “newspeak”, characterizing it as a simplified and deceptive language which makes it impossible for the victims of power to envision alternatives. Coonely’s remarks are a classic of the genre. .

  68. Derek Smith says:

    Good, I am all for one more chance, one more year for these guys. I realize how poor some of the player development has been, like scouting, drafting, and basic fundamentals. I also realize he has had a hard time with free agent signings. But lets take a look at what has gone well under Huntington’s watch.

    First, under-rated free agent signings. The most obvious, of course, is Garrett Jones. No name career minor leaguer, and he turns into a reliable every day player. Kevin Correia has been a classy veteran who is by no means spectacular, but has been reliable.

    Second, waiver aquisitions. Chris Resop, Jason Grilli, jump off the top of my head. But a guy like Xavier Paul was a very reliable bench guy.

    Third, his ability to piece together the bullpen. Rather it waiver aquisitions like Resop and Grilli, home grown talent like Jared Hughes and Brad Lincoln, a nice free agent signing like a Jose Veras, or trades, like Joel Hanrahan.

    Fourth, and most important, his ability to make good trades! Xavier Nady and Damaso Marte for Jeff Karstens, Jose Tabata, Ross Ohlendorf, Daniel McCutchen. Nate McClouth for Gorkys Hernandez, Jeff Locke, Charlie Morton. Nyjer Morgan and Sean Burnett for Lastings Milledge and Joel Hanrahan. Octavio Dotel for James McDonald and Andrew Lambo. Michael McKenry for cash considerations. A.J Burnett for Cash and a couple of Class-A minor leaguers. I like the trades he made at the deadline as well, just to early to tell how succsessful they will be.

    All I am saying is he has done a lot of good things, give him one more shot. If this late season collapse happens again, fire him. But with the things he has done to help turn this team around, he has been the best GM we have seen here for a while.


  69. JMB says:


    re: the link

    Has J-mac truly had an “encouraging season”? Or Marte for that matter? Do you have great confidence in JMac & Marte for 2013?

    The writer’s credibility is shot with that statement.

  70. Correct me if I’m wrong, but we have another failed professional baseball team, a director of player development who neglects fundamentals while recommending some combination of hippiness and Hell’s Angel’s ness, a GM who disspirits the team at every trade deadline with his timid if not fatally flawed moves, and a convicted drunk driver atop the organization assuring his loyal subordinates of their job security while demanding do or die performance from his players. Mr. Nutting, are you paying attention? There’s a cancer metastasizing through the baseball organization you own. You are either the cause of that disease or its remedy. Ante up.

  71. DarkAudit says:

    That’s it. I’m out.

    My Pirates gear is in a bag awaiting a trip to the dumpster on the way to work tonight.

    40-some years of emotional investment down the drain.

    Go Nats.

  72. pattonbb says:

    There’s no way Coonelly makes that statement without Nutting’s approval. If he did, he’ll be the first one to go.

  73. pghboyinca says:

    Derek Smith, You my friend are in need of some help. “His ability to make good trades!” And you had the balls to put an exclamation point? H emade a zillion trades and you leav eout he ones that are all in the worst of the decade but let’s examnine your good ones. Xavier Nady was COVETED at thatg trade deadline as was Marte. What they did afterward is of no consequence, the question is did we maximixe their value when we tradedf them? Ohlie, gone. McCutchon virtually gone. Tabata, head case on the downslide with no idea how old he actualy is and was sent tothe minors this year. Karstens DFA’s already once and although healthy not starting with Locke, Mcpherson starting ahead of him when we weren’t eliminatred form contnetion. Horrible trade.

    McClouth had tremendous value at the time of his trade. We got Gorky’s, Locke, and good time Charlie. Charlies rep was million dollar arm with a10 cent head. It was accurate. Gorky’s???LOL we had to package him with a 1 round sandwhich pick to get a dead body form Miami. Locke? A lottery ticket at best. A complete bust of a trade.

    Hanrahan , huge win although Burnett has had decent value but no where near Hanrahan. Morgan has had some servicable time, Milledge was a clown. Very solid trade for the Bucs. Dotel was expendable and mcDonald has huge potential but is as reliable as having Lindsey Lohan or Amanda Bynes drive your new Ferrari across the country for delivery. Could be a huge win could be a scratch. Good gamble but still a complete wild card.

    Burnett was a situational thing, he needed to be a starter and most teams had enmough good pitching to not want to be saddled with 2 years of spomething that might be an albatross. He turned out great, not just hjis pitching but as a mentor tht he young guys here. Somehow even he slumped when hte chips were pushed all in. Still a good acquisition.

    Are you grading on acurve and taking into ccount the G.M. is retarded? Grading only his best is slightly positive? Nice exclamation point.

  74. RobertoForever says:

    I would be happy to pick up any Pirate gear that anyone wants to throw away. I know a good shelter that caters to single moms, and the kids would love Pirate gear, even if it is oversized.

  75. RobertoForever says:

    Wow, now we are calling the GM ‘retarded’??

    That is in very poor taste, not only for the name-calling, but for using an inappropriate word in today’s society.

  76. pghboyinca says:

    Another inspired performance tonight. I think the team is rallying aorund their sherpa returning. Derek ho wis Lock elooking tonight? HOKA HEY!!!!!!!!!!

  77. Bottom of the 4’th. Mets 5, Pirates 0, as the team which will retain all its top executives zeroes in on a record setting twentieth consecutive sub .500 season. If Mr. Nutting doesn’t act, it’s time for Pirates fans to flood the Commish with pleas to wrest the profitable team from his hands. If the Commish proves complicit, it’s time for letters to Congress, which grants MLB its exemption from antitrust laws.

  78. Brad, Indiana PA says:

    I think Matthew Pouliot should do a little more research.

    1. He blatantly ignores that 16 games over .500 and a virtual stranglehold on a wildcard were squandered. Whether 76-78 was conventional or not, that fact can’t be ignored.

    2. Marte and JMac haven’t had “such encouraging seasons”.

    3. Tabata wasn’t the only real disappointment this year, and his “better” still isn’t what was expected of him. See Erik Bedard, Nate McClouth, Clint Barmes, Rod Barajas, Casey McGehee, Chad Qualls and Hisanori Takahashi for other disappointments and failed acquisitions.

  79. Roberto, what if, instead of seeking out objectionable comments you disagree with, you engage with non-objectional posts you disagree with? Instead of, you know, trolling?

    DK: That’s his thing. The Pirates are now reduced to one win a week, and he thumbs his nose at everyone after each.

  80. Brad, Indiana PA says:

    my entry @ 79 was in regards to link @ 64

  81. John Lease says:

    The Pirates have been inspired to falling behind 5-0 to the Mets.

    I have to believe this isn’t over yet. Bob Nutting will save us.

    Geeze, now I’ve gone around the bend like Neil’s family members who populate the internet.

  82. Drew71 says:

    DA – We just LOVE it around here when a new guy jumps on just to say he’s out. In other words, why should we care?

    If my family was kidnapped by slimeballs, I don’t abandon my family.

    Now if it’s just my wife…

  83. pghboyinca says:

    Roberto, You are right that is inappropriate. No one with severe mental issues should be made flight of. My apologies to Mr Huntington he can’t help it. And why should I ever disparage mentally challneged people by comparing them to Huntington? I love it when people start with the fake outrage to distract from the actual message. People who make pight of soemthing and joke about it are the last people to be bigoted, racist, homophobic, or insensitive. Get over yourself.

  84. da hoss says:

    call off the wolves boys. its time to be fansagain and not fanatics!

    all of you who say you will not support the team will be back rooting harder than ever when this team wins again and you know it.

    i do love and appreciate the passion but this team was still better than you thought it would be when the season started.

    you are not in Boston or NY where you can just buy all the players you like. Im from Boston and i can tell you that Theo Epstein made a boat load of crappy moves here yet still won a world series because they bought the players. You dont have that luxury. good energy attracts good energy and visa versa, so be positive even if it kills you to do it!

    Good luck!

  85. Hurdled says:

    Roberto, I think it’s time for you to get a nice cowbell suppository.

    Might shut you up for awhile.

    Since you seem to enjoy talking out of that end more than the one the good lord gave you to talk with.

  86. Drew71 says:

    THAT said, there is something rather Graham Spanier about this version of unconditional support.

  87. JMB says:

    @John Lease

    That’s my hopeful conspiracy theory as well.

    Nutting will ride in and fire them all, and he’ll be a hero for at least one off-season for making the tough choice and cleaning house.

    Yes, it will involve a lot of work and a new infrastructure, but I’m wrapping myself in some Zoltan bubble wrap to enact change.

  88. Drew71 says:

    Dejan – I’m afraid you need a fact check. It’s TWO wins a week.

    Now I feel better.

  89. Sarcastic Sword says:

    The other night after the MNF game, Trent Dilfer said on ESPN that the NFL is insulting our intelligence by using replacement refs and telling the fans there isnt a problem.

    Coonelly’s statement above ahs insulted my intelligence and from this day forward, my support for the PBC, in all ways including buying tickets, will cease until further notice.

    You have got to be kidding me!

    But after a few moments of thoughts, this makes perfect sense – this organization is a joke. Why not bring back everyone after the greatest collapse in MLB for a team 16 games over after 108 games.

    Ia m rooting against this team from going 6-2 the rest of the way – these morons do not deserve to be associated with the Pirates when if/when they finally break the streak.

  90. Hurdled says:

    This franchise routinely screws over it’s fans.

    They know that no matter what as long as they show some shred of mediocrity the fans will always come back.

    More fireworks, more concerts, more free t-shirts.

    The fans will come back, that’s what they count on, and that’s how they operate.

    Enjoy the screw-job you keep getting. Make sure you keep giving them your money.

    Look at an organization like the Cardinals or even the Brewers.

    They give their fans a legitimate product. They spend money wisely. They don’t put PR spin on everything to cover their butts. Is it any wonder they passed us in the standings?

    What a shame that in a city with 2 stellar model sports franchises, the baseball team chooses to screw what little of the fan base is left.

  91. Pat4Pgh says:

    Losing 5 – 0, Marte is thrown out trying to steal 2nd!!! Great coaching and fundamentals……

    I cannot believe the PBC does NOT have one management employee who knows anything about baseball……and yet, the labor lawyer announces they all will be back next year…..and maybe the year after that and the year after that…

    Hopefully, the Mayans were right and our suffering (as Pirate fans) will end in December!!!!

  92. RobertoForever says:

    Officer Mancuso,

    I am afraid I cannot respond to your post since it appears to be objectionable.

  93. The idea that fans who criticize this regime are disloyal johnny come latelys is singulatly offensive. More likely, died in the wool defenders of the Nutting regime are too young to have ever attended a post-season baseball game on the North Side.

  94. DarkAudit says:

    I may be new here, but that’s just *here*. Don’t judge a man by his post count. That doesn’t show a 40-some year emotional investment in this franchise. Just because I don’t post on newspaper message boards doesn’t make my opinion any less valid.

  95. da hoss says:


    and thats why this team isnt as good. why does everyone blame the front office?

    i understand blaming the owner, but i think the front office is headed in the right direction!

  96. Pardon my invention of new words like “singulately”.

  97. T.S. says:


    Any way we can get a spell check in here?



  98. T.S. says:

    Looks like the PFO apologists are out in force tonight.

  99. Hurdled says:

    da hoss, 4th place is the right direction?

    20 years of losing baseball, and still no end in sight.

    Other “small market” teams find ways to win because…………WAIT FOR IT………

    Their front office is competent.

    Somehow Tampa Bay and Oakland can be competitive and make the playoffs more than once every 20+ years, and they have far worse revenue streams and fan-bases than we do.

    Please, one of the front office apologists explain to me how with less money and less resources the A’s and Rays can compete in the post-season, and the Pirates are on losing season #20.

    Please please please explain that to me.

  100. Arriba Wilver says:

    Wow. I really hate to judge something so momentous immediately. A lot of times it leads to stupid statements (by me, but I’m far from alone). But how in the world do you come out before the season ends in this atmosphere and say we’re going to fix this, make changes, but everyone at the top is safe? Kind of limits the alternatives, right? And what a stupid public relations thing to do. I can only hope BarryVanBonilla’s theory is correct that FC may be on his own. I’m not saying I had concluded Neal has to be fired, but this smacks of an organization out of control, or at least hijacked by a cadre. (see, the stupid stuff). But man, I couldn’t say anything that would be as stupid as what Frank just did.

  101. da hoss says:


    anybody that supports the pirates front office is an apologist? where is the argument in that statement?

  102. Milo Hamilton says:

    It’s kinda fitting that the day Coonelly announces that they’ll all be back – the team is mathematically eliminated from the post season.

  103. Drew71 says:

    Audit, your opinion is valid, but that’s not my point. My point is, why should WE care? Why jump on here for your first post and write “i’m out”? And despite your forty years of fandom, that is exactly what you said. And did.

    New guy writes he’s out? Fine.

    I’m disgusted by this management team. I’m not an apologist. I’m not talking about your (or my) opinion.

    I’m talking about your apparent need to walk into a bar full of strangers and yell
    “I’m Out Of Here”

  104. Hurdled says:


    Serious question here.

    It almost seems that Coonelly, Huntington, Stark and Smith have all figured that Nutting is so inept at running this franchise, that there is no possible way he could adequately replace them all with 4 new hires this offseason. The classic, “if you fire all of us, there’s no way YOU know how to run this place” scenario. Or am I way off here?

  105. da hoss says:

    i guess losing for 20 years leads to this high level of vitriol.

    sports are supposed to be a distraction from your every day life.

    maybe its time to take a step back and ask yourself why you are so angry about something that’s supposed to distract you from reality?

    sad really

    DK: Thought you guys had all cleared out of here.

  106. Hurdled says:

    da hoss, it’s more of an indictment that someone could be so naive as to believe that this front office actually knows what it is doing.

    So yes, at this point, as far as I’m concerned, anyone who supports the cadre is in fact an apologist.

  107. T.S. says:

    @da hoss

    The evidence of why the current FO should be fired is overwhelming and has been noted ad nauseam by DK and others.

    Good luck!

  108. T.S. says:

    @da hoss

    Thanks for reminding me that baseball is a distraction from every day life. I deserve to spout vitriol after 20 years of losing and team support. Thanks for your sardonic-laced psychobabble. Now take it somewhere else.

  109. RobertoForever says:

    Lisa tells me I am thumbing my nose at everyone after wins. She must not be reading the other 5 days.

    Drew – thanks for sticking up for the teams 2 wins a week. At least someone is putting out accurate statements.

  110. Hurdled says:

    da hoss, I’m not distracted at all. Don’t need to be.

    My life is great. Wouldn’t trade it for anything.

    The only thing in my life that doesn’t seem to work right plays at PNC Park.

    Maybe it’s my desire to actually see a playoff game at that stadium.

    Maybe it’s the fact that I hate losing at anything in life.

    I don’t like the feeling of losing, and I NEVER accept it. But then again, that’s why I have excelled in life.

    Maybe that’s why you sense so much “vitriol”

    By the way, you still didn’t answer my question. Stop pulling a Huntington and trying to deflect, answer the question.

  111. RobertoForever says:

    Da Hoss,

    Careful, or they will project and call you the bitter one.

  112. Hurdled says:

    Roberto, you are about as popular as polio.

    But you probably like that.

  113. @RobertoForever, you, sir, are a loser, unable to identify blame-worthy failure when it smacks you upside the head.

  114. T.S. says:


    Shouldn’t you be updating every play of every inning of every Pirates game? Because after all, there are no sports sites or apps to do that very thing.

  115. JRay3 says:

    Only in Pirates baseball can you FAIL MISERABLY in your job two consecutive years, make horrible business investments, get lapped by your competition and retain your job.

    Thank goodness the Pirates are not a Fortune 500 company or its stock would have plummeted, people would be out of work and the company would be minutes from bankruptcy.

  116. I hope Nutting steps up to the plate. Otherwise, the way forward is complicated.

  117. DarkAudit says:


    Your analogy is flawed. I walked into this bar in the mid-70s. Strangers? We’re all, or were, Pirates fans. I guess you don’t have the same sense of community.

    Why should you care? 21 years and counting. 22 years and counting. And so on. Go ahead and not care. You’ll do it without me and anyone I can get to listen. Eventually those empty seats and unsold ad spaces will show up in the balance sheets.

  118. pattonbb says:

    The Pirates have become the Washington Generals of baseball.

    DK: Yes, they have.

    About six years ago.

    And of all sports.

  119. Pat4Pgh says:

    Officer Mancuso

    If Nutting steps up to the plate, can we get Chapman to throw one high and tight at 102 mph?

  120. Drew71 says:

    You said you were going to leave. Right?

    I’m just asking.

  121. T.S. says:

    Imagine if this regime stays in place. GMs already already can’t stand Huntington’s unapproachability in trade talks. Pirates will be trading for players to be named never.

  122. 120, your guess is as good as mine. Until we see evidence that the horrible but profitable team upsets Nutting, I conclude that he’s laughing all the way to the bank, while making sad faces for journalists.

  123. da hoss says:

    @officer mancuso

    why so angry brother?

    you a real cop?

  124. PgherinLev says:

    This front office has a lower winning percentage than either of the two regimes before it and has presided over two epic collapses, each historic in their own way. How is that heading in the right direction?

  125. What Happened? says:

    That Hell’s Angels e-mail to the “troops” – err – coaches & players – was a fireable offense in any legitimate organization. Take your pick of Human Resources nightmares: hostile work environment, intimidation, harassment, setting expectations aligned with a motorcycle club that has a violent and criminal history….no wonder a Stanford student (and star pitcher) said NO to joining the PBC. Well-advised players in the organization could “lawyer-up” armed with that inflammatory e-mail from “upper management” and create some REAL headaches. What…a…mess.

  126. da hoss says:

    you bunch of malcontents don’t deserve a winning team. i cant wait to see DK jumping back on the band wagon next season. you are seriously all a bunch of frauds.

    DK: Yeah, frauds, stop looking at the standings! Liars all!

    Honestly, man …

  127. Milo Hamilton says:

    da hoss,

    Don’t you have that button your google machine that lets you capitalize the 1st word of each sentence ? Or haven’t you gotten that far in school yet ?

  128. Drew71 says:

    He’s right. It’s our fault.

  129. da hoss says:

    so DK what were your expectations for this team back in april?

  130. Hurdled says:

    da hoss, Does that mean that YOU deserve a winning team?

    How are WE frauds?

  131. DemonDachshund says:

    I’d be disappointed if I hadn’t expected this all along. I hope they get something of value for McCutchen when they deal him in two or three years. Maybe that rebuilding phase will finally pay off.

  132. da hoss says:

    im not from Pittsburgh

    you are frauds because you dont support your team and then you spew all this personal nonsense about the team.

    where im from we went 86 years without winning a world series, we still supported the team. so much hatred on here really.

    DK: Funny, but “JB” also had a Boston IP address. Small world.

  133. Milo Hamilton says:

    Well that explains it.

  134. Dan1283 says:

    Hey look another front office plant! I mean, just a random Red Sox fan with a new name that randomly and suddenly found the blog….

  135. I am a fictional character in the novel *A Confederacy of Dunces* by John Kennedy Toole. I AM angry because the people of my home town are being taken for a ride by ymthe rich folks who own, and are destroying, their storied pro baseball team. I would like to know, to quote David Crosby, “What are their names? And on what street do they live? I’d like to ride over this afternoon and give them a piece of my mind.”

  136. da hoss says:

    DK i think not, there are lots of Pirate fans in the greater boston area. mostly transplanted from pittsburgh

    DK: Ha! Sorry, dude, you gave yourself away probably without even realizing it.

    Shouldn’t you guys focus on how not to get shut out by the Mets’ Triple-A starters?

  137. DemonDachshund says:

    It’s true, no one from Boston is ever critical of the Red Sox. Not ever. They totally support their team 395 days a year. Yes, there are only 365 days in a year, but THAT’S HOW MUCH THEY SUPPORT THEM. Even when they drink beer in the clubhouse.

  138. Hurdled says:


    Pinocchio, or a Pinocchio minion strikes again!!

  139. Drew71 says:

    I thought a little Lou Reed would add a little whip cream to this evening.

    Heroin, be the death of me
    Heroin, it’s my wife and it’s my life
    Because a mainer to my vein
    Leads to a center in my head
    And then I’m better off than dead

    And I guess I just don’t know
    And I guess I just don’t know

    Just a little Top Forty for you.

    On this Night to End All Nights.

  140. Hurdled says:

    Red Sox fans have been VERY supportive of their team this year.

    They all support their front office.

    I believe they all want Bobby Valentine back.

  141. da hoss says:

    down with dissenters!!!!!

    i see how it is

    is that the default on here to keep opposing views silent, gang up on them with a 3rd grade mentality???

    you all deserve each other

    wallowing in your own miserable lives with nothing good to say about anybody or anything ………..oh unless they are “winners” and then its kool right??????

  142. JRay3 says:

    Da Hoss,

    Just so you know we have not had a winning team for 20 years, the fact that many of us have stuck around speaks volumes about Pirates fans. If there was ever a fan base that deserved a winning season it would be this one.

    You cite going 86 years without winning a world series, let me ask you how many +.500 seasons has that team had in the past 20 years? Zero? Not possible the Pirates have set that futility record and it continues on. How many times did that team make the playoffs in the past 20 years? With the Nationals clinching the NL East this season the Pirates are the ONLY team in baseball without a playoff appearance in 20 years.

    Sorry no frauds here, the true frauds are running this organization and not doing its part for the fan base.

  143. Dan1283 says:

    DD just killed me with his 395 days remark. Just spectacular.

  144. Milo Hamilton says:

    I don’t hate anybody & anything.

    I love Bucky Dent.

  145. Go Bucs. Rid yourselves of the toxin. A fish rots from the head.

  146. da hoss says:

    its difficult with the fifth lowest payroll in mlb

  147. da hoss says:


    they filled the stands for every home game

    whats more supportive than that???

  148. Drew71 says:

    Anybody see the movie Showgirls? One of the funniest movies ever.

    Unintentional humor, as uncomfortable as it can be, is often the very best.

    Think of that. And go read post 143 again.

  149. Hurdled says:

    Why did the Red Sox go 86 years without a championship?

    Poor front office moves.

    They didn’t integrate their team until 1959. A full 12 years after Jackie Robinson broke the color barrier.

    Even then they kept a strict quota on the number of black players on the team until the 90’s.

    They changed ownership and cleaned out the old front office, and BEHOLD……THEY WON A WORLD SERIES!!

    Funny how that works.

  150. da hoss says:


    that 2004 team was mostly dan duquette players

    so much for that argument

  151. JRay3 says:

    Let’s put this in perspective, the last time the Pirates were relevant in 1992 I was a junior in high school. I at least remember the afternoon games of the NLCS with the Braves and watching them at my high school with one of my baseball coaches.

    A high school junior in Pittsburgh has never witnessed a winning home town team in their entire life or a playoff baseball game. Even a junior now at Pitt or Duquesne or Robert Morris have never witnessed a winning season or playoff baseball game.

    Yep has to be the fan base.

  152. Hurdled says:

    They rarely sold out games until the summer of 1967.

    Throughout the 80’s and 90’s and early 2000’s they weren’t selling out every night.

    It wasn’t until they won in 2004 that they sold out EVERY game all the time.

    Again, funny how winning a championship can keep a stadium full.

  153. da hoss says:

    you wouldnt know what to say if you had a winnner

    what would you whine about then? oh yeah, thats right, the Steelers!!!!!!!!

  154. da hoss says:

    funny how spending almost $200 million can get you players to win a championship

  155. One tging is indisputable. The Pittsburgh baseball team is a pathetic laughingstock.

  156. likeabugonarub says:

    Living on the opposite side of the state I don’t get to the ‘Burgh much anymore, so this season won’t change how often I go. And if this season had played out differently and we crept up to around the .500 mark instead of collapsing I think most would be at least encouraged that things were getting better. But…..

    When this team was still in good shape around the trade deadline, what did this FO do? Make trades that took the team sideways, but especially trading one of their more effective pitchers for an “I hope he makes us look good”. And, with how well he’d been pitching, who could’ve foreseen Grilli failing in the 8th inning 2 games in a row leading to losses? What the heck happened to JMac the 2nd half? Going from an almost all-star to a flop. Did not making the all-star team negatively affect his frame of mind?

    The easy mark to blame for these is Huntington. Did the players here expect maybe an impact player that would actually help them improve their record and when that didn’t happen they suffered through disappointment that they were let down from above? And the players they called up from the minors made a negative impact to the team, even though they had played well on the farm.

    So, is it Huntington’s scout team that can’t identify impact players? Or is he so hamstrung from the owner that he doesn’t feel like he can give up anything of potential talent in the minors (read cheaper players) to get an impact player who might actually help them make the playoffs? I know they added some money to the roster in grabbing Wandy, but did that shoot most of the freedom NH had to work with?

    Until those answers are really known, is firing NH really going to have much of an impact if the next GM has the same limitations?

  157. Hurdled says:

    da hoos, You are as stupid as you are stubborn.

    Theo Epstien, with the blessing of new owner John Henry signed or trade for the core of that team.

    Take a look for yourself.

    Who signed David Ortiz?

    Who signed Kevin Millar?

    Who traded for Curt Schilling?

    Who made the trade that was made at the deadline to get Orlando Cabrera?

    Who made the trade that got the Dave Roberts?

    How’s my “arguement” look now?

  158. Hurdled says:

    da hoss, Is that the best you can do?

    Who is full of “vitriol” now?

  159. JRay3 says:

    The Oakland A’s and their 29th second lowest in baseball beating up the Rangers 8-3, closing in on both playoff spot and 90 win season.

    Great Management does not make a difference though.

  160. da hoss says:


    again with the personal insults

    so thats 5 guys out of a 24 man roster

    i guess you showed me

  161. JRay3 says:

    Clarification, for the A’s that is 29th ranked payroll, 8M less than the Pirates at 53 M.

  162. da hoss says:

    you get the team you deserve

  163. da hoss says:

    oh jray so it can be done then

    did they do it overnight?

  164. Hurdled says:

    25 man roster, but really who is counting.

    5 guys?

    I’m pretty sure those “5 guys” were 5 of the most important members of that team.

    And no the Sox didn’t spend $200 million on that team.

  165. Drew71 says:

    Ah. That’s it. WE deserve this team.

    Too impatient. Just 20 more years.

  166. JRay3 says:

    The A’s since 1992:

    10 +.500 seasons
    7 90+ win seasons
    2 100+ win seasons
    5 AL West Titles
    1 Wild Card berth

    Overnight? Nah pretty consistent organization of baseball men that know what they are doing.

  167. Hurdled says:

    da hoss, if you get the team that you deserve then why are the Sox so great this year?

  168. da hoss says:

    isnt it football season?

    oops sorry, nothing good there either is there

  169. DemonDachshund says:

    Yep, all about the money.

    Don’t look at Oakland. Don’t look at Tampa. Don’t look at Cincy, Wash, Balt, Atl, who, at right around $83M each, are right at the level the Bucs could and should be spending.

    Why won’t they spend more money???? Nothing to do with the $15M spent on Bedard, Barajas, Barmes, and McClouth this year, I’m sure.

  170. Hurdled says:

    By the way, hoss, you’re getting owned pretty good here.

    Might be time to switch back to your JB name and try again.

  171. Hurdled says:

    Don’t try to deflect. It doesn’t work.

    Just answer the questions.

  172. da hoss says:

    jray, my point exactly

    but you all expect it overnight apparently

  173. aglebagel says:

    I saw an article published recently listing someone else (can’t even remember who it was) as the worst franchise in professional sports. They have lost all credibility by not naming the Pirates #1.

  174. Hurdled says:

    It’s funny when the troll gets trolled.

    At least Roberto is smart enough to bail when he gets owned.

  175. Hurdled says:

    We expect results overnight?

    Sounds like we are becoming Red Sox fans.


  176. da hoss says:


    whatever bro, are you the big bully on here?

    you are a one trick pony with that jb thing

    no idea wtf you are talking about there but keep playing it

  177. da hoss says:

    yeah you owned me hurdled

    child please

    so duquette didnt put togehter 80% of that team?

  178. pattonbb says:

    DK – where’s that “ignore” button upgrade?

  179. Hurdled says:

    I’m not a bully. I’m also not you “bro.”

    It’s just funny to watch you try to troll and fail at it.

    Funny that out of everything I’ve mentioned, you come back to the “JB thing.”

  180. JRay3 says:

    da hoss,

    So it should take longer than 20 years? Come on your overnight argument is poor, this has been 7,300 nights and counting!

    I just expect competent management which the Pirates do not have. I don’t expect a five year plan to be a 20 year and counting plan. I expect accountability to which there is none. I expect an owner who cares about his business, its perception and what its customers want. We have none of that.

  181. da hoss says:

    whats a troll? somebody who doesnt agree with you and your negative views?

    i think ive adressed everything you brought up

    you are the one who brought that up

    must mean something to you

  182. JRay3 says:

    The Pirates Reclamation Project 7,300 nights and counting…let that sink in.

  183. Hurdled says:

    “Child please”



    You are struggling here, gotta pick it up.

  184. da hoss says:

    this front office is in its 5th year. you cant really blame them for the past 20 years no

    i dont blame you on the owner part

  185. Hurdled says:

    Enlighten us to your “positive” views.

    I’d love to hear them.

  186. Reading says:

    When TBMTIB trades away Cutch or Alvarez for the rights to “No, no Nanette,” then we’ll see who the real fans are.

  187. da hoss says:

    you are rignt, the owner sucks, the front office sucks and most of the players suck

    why bother

  188. da hoss says:

    blow it up and start over AGAIN

  189. Hurdled says:

    That is your positive view?

    Doesn’t sound very positive to me.

  190. Hurdled says:

    Want to try again?

    Please enlighten us all as to your positive views.

  191. JRay3 says:

    And in five years I have seen these FA signings – Barmes, Barajas, Diaz, Laroche, Laroche, Hinske, Aoki, Martis, Bedard, Church, Donnely, Bass, Cotts, Carrasco…overwhelming isn’t it.

    In the draft we have overpaid Allie, Cain, Dodson, Von Rosenberg, Sanchez, Pounders etc. Outside of Alvarez really don’t have much from ’08 class as Mercer, D’Arnaud and Hauge have not done anything at the MLB level. The ’09 draft is considered a huge bust for dollars spent and we missed on Sano in our Dominican efforts.

    Trades lost quite a few, won a couple. Development is horrible.

    Five years is more than enough.

  192. da hoss says:

    nah this aint the place for that

    i just figured that out

    blow the whole thing up

    spend another 20 years without a winner

    who cares anyway

  193. Reading says:

    TBMTIB’s new revenue plan involves marketing the slogan “Hoka Hey!” The expected “profit” from such a plan will be applied to search for our next .205 hitting reclamation project.

  194. Hurdled says:

    I’m serious, I want to hear your positive views.

    Since everyone here is just negative, I’d love to hear some positive views from someone.

    You appointed yourself as the voice of reason, so please don’t shy away.

    The floor is all yours.

    Speak positive to us.

  195. da hoss says:

    im converted

    blow it up

  196. Hurdled says:

    I don’t remember anyone saying “blow it up.”

    I know I never did.

    Well played. Too bad you couldn’t keep the subterfuge up.

    Maybe next time.

  197. JRay3 says:

    Seriously this is what the Pirates have:

    CF – Cutch
    LF – Marte
    2B – Walker
    3B – Alvarez
    1B – Jones

    SP – AJ, Wandy, Karstens

    CL – Hammer / SU – Grilli

    This management has left holes at SS, C, corner OF a couple of SP and bullpen as ours has disintegrated the past two months.

    Find baseball men capable of building around the small core we do have.

    Kevin Towers did it here in Arizona and it is Mr. Nutting’s responsibility to find the men capable of doing it in Pittsburgh.

  198. cmat0829 says:

    Seems to me:

    1) Being a Pirate fan (which by definition everyone on this blog that discuss and dissect every game/inning/move so diligently and with dedication) is frustrating. It astonishes and angers me that we seem to take losses harder than the team does and search for answers with more objectivity (mostly) and passion and energy than the players/coaches/FO does.

    2) We are all fans, so I take the “that’s it I’m done” stuff with a huge grain of salt. It is 20 years and counting folks and we “aren’t done yet” so, don’t worry, y’all be back again next year.

    3) We have to remember that the only folks that really feel the “streak” are us fans. The roster had turned over countless times…new owner, new front office, etc.

    4) What matters most is what the Pirates do from this day forward. I don’t have a ton of confidence in this management team and yes, most of this batch of players, to figure out “what to do differently” which everyone agrees (frustrated fans and clueless FO alike) agrees is necessary.

    5) It isn’t a “stay the course” or “5-year rebuilding plan” choice..that’s false logic. The team needs to take decisive action in a number of areas starting yesterday and it is best if a new management team sets out on that course.

    6) All of this really comes down to what the PLAYERS decide to do from this point forward. Cutch has many wonderful qualities but no one who has watched many of his atbats since midAugust can say that he needs to adjust not only his approach but his attitude. Team-first would be a nice attribute for a star player the OWNERSHIP has made a major financial commitment to. Neal’s best comment last week was the one about “runners on 1st and 2nd, no out, and we swing for 3-run HR and not to hit to the other side”….Cutch, ahem, that means you. Pedro and Jones need seriously improved plate discipline…as does Presley and Tabata and Snyder and well, everyone. Clint pointed that out last week… I’m pretty sure the coaches are telling the players what to do and the PLAYERS ARENT DOING IT. WHOSE FAULT IS THAT? I don’t care if Casey Stengel’s ghost is the manager next year and Theo Epstein is the GM…. if the players don’t adjust…run bases with discipline, catch simple ground balls…get a clue…. don’t seize up…. then we will either see EPIC COLLAPSE III or never even get to a good enough position to collapse.

    If I were owner, I’d clean house and that includes much of the current 25 man roster.

  199. Daquido_Bazzini says:

    How can anyone be surprised that the Nutting Regime will stay intact?
    This year has been Bob Nutting’s dream year, and he is consequently covered with greenbacks.
    It will be business as usual for the Nutting Regime.
    It’s high time that fans and media pick it up a notch, and put relentless pressure on Nutting to relinquish and sell.
    Nothing will change until this is done….

  200. Cajun Thunder says:

    Bob Nutting must think “accountability” is just a word between “able” and “apathy” (or “awful”) in the dictionary.

  201. BarryVanBonilla says:

    He’ll sell when he has accumulated enough shares so as to maximize profit when he sells right after a playoff appearance. Just hope that he buys everybody else out quickly and they get damned lucky in the next year or two.

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