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Pittsburgh sports talk with the Trib columnist

Final: Pirates 6, Brewers 4

By Dejan Kovacevic | Trib Total Media

Looking ahead to first pitch …

Game: Pirates (15-12) vs. Milwaukee Brewers (14-11)

Starters: RHP Jeanmar Gomez vs. RHP Hiram Burgos

Time: 1:10 p.m.

Site: Miller Park, Milwaukee

TV, radio: Root Sports, 93.7 The Fan

Here’s the official live box score.

Here’s the Pirates’ lineup …

  1. Starling Marte, LF
  2. Jose Tabata, RF
  3. Andrew McCutchen, CF
  4. Garrett Jones, RF
  5. Brandon Inge, 2B
  6. Pedro Alvarez, 3B
  7. Michael McKenry, C
  8. John McDonald, SS
  9. Gomez, RHP

Here’s TribLIVE’s Pirates page. Rob Biertempfel thinks the Sausage is overdue in the race.

Author: Dejan Kovacevic

Dejan Kovacevic, a lifelong Pittsburgher, is an award-winning sports columnist for Trib Total Media covering the Steelers, Penguins, Pirates, Pitt and, recently, his fourth Olympics in Sochi, Russia. He also appears on WPXI-TV's 'Subway Final Word’ and hosts a weekly show on TribLIVE Radio. For 2011, he was named one of the country's top four columnists by the AP Sports Editors. For 2012, he was named one of the country's top three columnists by the National Headliners. For 2013, he was named the state's top columnist by the Keystone Press Awards and top columnist in Western Pennsylvania by the Golden Quills.


  1. Baywatch says:

    Let’s kick some rear end at Miller Park today! So what IF Ian Snell was the last one to throw a good game there (in a loss, of course). It stops today with JEANMAR GOMEZ!! Go ahead and RAISE IT! :-)

  2. NYBuccoFan says:

    DK, Your link to the trib pirates page always connects to the trib Duquesne basketball page.

  3. Baywatch says:

    And to add insult to injury, they’re throwing a guy named HIRAM BURGOS at us today! Grandson of a guy with a famous vaudeville act? Drew 71’s vaudevillian grandfather? Oy!

  4. Another darn DVR Special Day!

    Let’s open The Window…What’ll ya have? What’ll ya have?
    As always this is just for fun and entertainment purposes.

    Max “wager” is 100 units on each separate line.
    All “wagers” must be divisible by 5.
    Play as many lines or as few lines as you’d like.

    Please put your replies in this dialogue box, makes it much easier for me to “book-keep” that way.

    What will JEANMAR GOMEZ get in today’s game
    Loss (EVEN ODDS)
    No Decision (EVEN ODDS)

    Anyone can play, and everyone should try!

    Thanks to all for playing and good luck!!

    CONGRATS TO OUR APRIL WINNER – theplanisworking!!!
    Please contact me via twitter at so I can mail you your prize.

    theplanisworking ~ 1000
    Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) ~ 900
    tdb1977 ~ 800
    fellocolonial ~ 600
    bman ~ 520
    RobertoForever ~ 490
    Frankie ~ 425
    KJX ~ 425
    Jason81 ~ 400
    EricBowser ~ 350
    JohninOshkosh ~ 350
    radio wave ~ 325
    Keith ~ 300
    Pucknutz ~ 300
    Boise Bucco ~ 200
    JaxBuc ~ 180
    JoeyBats ~ 175
    cmat0829 ~ 150
    JUCOFan ~ 125
    PetroSteel ~ 100
    Steve J. Smith ~ 100
    TCB ~ 100
    Karen22 ~ 75
    Bill Born ~ 65
    Joey Mellons ~ 50
    mlrgenuine ~ 50
    TJ ~ 50
    tmp444 ~ 25
    Chico ~ EVEN
    DemonDachshund ~ EVEN
    kr70 ~ EVEN
    Nate83 ~ EVEN
    pants-n-at ~ EVEN
    TK ~ EVEN
    Ruffian706 ~ -40
    JD ~ -50
    JRay3 ~ -75
    Dadtackular ~ -100
    Dcpinpgh ~ -100
    Kevin S ~ -100
    steelercrazy ~ -100
    stickyweb ~ -100
    Evan ~ -100
    Brandie ~ -125
    absolute59 ~ -150
    OZ ~ -150
    Dom ~ -175
    Ghost ~ -200
    blazer ~ -300
    Kevin ~ -300
    cherokee23 ~ -350
    cosmo ~ -400
    pattonbb ~ -500
    stuart66 ~ -500
    Arriba Wilver ~ -525
    Lad9 ~ -600
    Jandy ~ -800
    JMB ~ -800
    Bizrow ~ -1300

    ***First Place at the end of MAY will win:***

    First Place at the end of the season will win:

    Second Place at the end of the season will win:

    Third Place at the end of the season will win:

    Fourth Place at the end of the season will win:

    Fifth Place at the end of the season will win:

  5. gregenstein says:

    2 Right fielders, 2 Center fielders. Is this like when Lastings Millege was playing the “no triples” defense?

  6. NMR says:

    I think this guy is my dentist.

  7. JHadar says:

    Desperate times call for desperate measures!

  8. Thundercrack says:

    Bandon Inge should not be batting 5th.

    Pedro needs to move up and step it up.

  9. pattonbb says:

    100 on the WIN!


  10. NMR says:

    On the day I come into the Game thread to appologize to Clint Hurdle for questioning him starting Gaby Sanchez against righties instead of Jose Tabata, of course he would start Jose Tabata instead of Gaby Sanchez.

  11. 21sthebest says:

    Lastings Milledge and defense in the same sentence. Cute!

  12. fellocolonial says:

    2 Starting RFs and 2 Starting CFs, this should be interesting. Maybe a new strategy for playing in Milwaukee

  13. fellocolonial says:

    100 points on No Decision

  14. KJX says:

    100 No Decision

  15. gregenstein says:

    I get it now. One of these guys is the rover.

  16. Milo Hamilton says:

    Trying to cover for the fact that they don’t have a shortstop.

  17. Milo Hamilton says:

    “… on the day of your daughter’s wedding.”

  18. 21sthebest says:

    Actually I think Dejan is probably drinking with Milo.

  19. JohninOshkosh says:

    The only player ever to have fireworks go off for a double.

    Poor Lastings-should have never done those high fives with the fans at Shea. Never recovered from that from a PR point of view.

  20. Milo Hamilton says:

    “May their first child be a masculine child.”

  21. Lad9 says:

    100 on no decision. Thank you Playoffs. Go Buccos – time to end this nightmare!

  22. Bizrow says:

    100 on No Decision, thanks Playoffs

  23. JohninOshkosh says:

    NMR sleeps with the fishes.

  24. 21sthebest says:

    “You’re gonna need a bigger boat” disagrees with you. :-)

  25. theplanisworking says:

    Mr. Playoffs………
    I am humbled to have been declared the “winner” for April.

    However, I cannot in good faith claim the “prize”.
    I placed most of my bets against the Pirates on the lines, and I will not acccept a prize based on my team doing poorly.

    In lieu of awarding me the prize, I humbly suggest the following options for you:

    1) Give the prize to Ryan, the runner-up
    2) Give a small (equal to the prize) amount to a charity:
    – The American Heart Association
    – The Boston Charities
    – a charity of your choice
    – raffle it off here and donate the price to a charity.

    This is not me being ungrateful, I just feel funny accepting a prize going against my team. I also didnt place that many wagers…………. heck, I didnt even play the first week of the season. Its easy to win when you dont play much.

    Please consider this request, and do what you think is best.
    I truly appreciate the opportunity to read your lines………. it provides a welcome diversion for me right now.

    Hippo out.

  26. Bizrow says:

    What with the guy starting today, and what with our track record in the House of Horror, there is no way we should win today.

    Nostrabizus therefore predicts a W for the good guys ;-)

  27. JHadar says:

    I keep telling myself it’s just a two-game losing streak and a win today could put us right back in first (if the Cards lose) — but in the back of my mind, whether it’s true or not (facts don’t matter here), the WW Collapses I & II were the result of playing Them THERE.

    From the other thread: I remember when JAL started doing the links on the Olde Blogge both by popular demand and then by DK’s request. It’s a much appreciated service to the ragtag community of lunatics that make this place what it is — and no doubt there are times when it means sacrificing doing something else; we only get 168 hours each week after all.

    Although I’m not a hockey fan, I think your local TV channel’s decision was playoffs vs regular season — not hockey vs. baseball. Most of the hockey fans I know are very passionate about the sport and the popularity of hockey in Pittsburgh is a geographic anomaly but it may spread.

    And it is the norm in professional sports to keep an established player a little beyond what the average fan thinks a team should when things are not going well for him — after all he may just being going through a rough time. Releasing Sanchez was a couple games too late; he wouldn’t have made the team out spring training if Karstens, Liriano or Morton had been healthy. It’s way too early to give up on JMac, but the wheels may have started to turn in that direction. But when he’s good, he’s very good — wait and see.

    Expecting another slugfest today, but things don’t always go the way I expect. I thought we had ‘em on the ropes last night when we tied it at 8.

  28. SeanAY says:

    All this, and no mention of, “Now go get your ****ing shinebox!”

  29. Naterosboro says:


  30. JohninOshkosh says:

    And the doc went on to explain that this woman, who looked as fertile as the Tennessee Valley, could bear no young. Her insides were a rocky place where my seed could find no purchase.

    H.I. Raising Arizona

  31. Naterosboro says:

    To be fair, Petey doesn’t make the lineup.

  32. TCB says:

    100 on the loss. I cannot see him as a starter, let alone the stopper (at Miller Park).

  33. radio wave says:

    At playoffs: I will take 75 on no decision. Thank you

  34. Brandie says:

    Mr. Playoffs,

    I would like to place 50 on no decision. Thank you.

  35. Evan says:

    100 on ND.

  36. NMR says:

    This went in a waayyyyy better direction than I anticipated.

  37. Brandie says:

    Give a shout out to Jandy. She was wondering where you were. The tulips hope you are okay.

  38. theplanisworking says:

    Oh, Jandy and I were conversing on the Pirate thread last night.
    I even asked you for a song request last night.

    I am ok. Keeping busy with important things……………..
    On a positive note, Brandie, the past 2 night, I got 8 hours of sleep each night.
    I havent had that in almost 2 years.
    So I am good.


  39. kr70 says:

    100 on the “win” and maybe $5 on the sausage.

  40. Bizrow says:

    Yeah, I’m a bit worried about JMac too

    And unless he gets hurt, he can’t be sent down to figure things out

  41. kr70 says:

    “Make my day”

  42. Thundercrack says:

    If he hit better he would have much more influence on the batting order

  43. absolute59 says:

    Alex I’ll take ND for 50 please..

  44. The Window appreciates your modesty and humility.
    However, there is no picking for or against the Pirates here.
    It is just for fun, nothing more and nothing less.
    You simply “wager” correctly or incorrectly, and you, kind sir, were the best at doing that in the month of April.
    Therefore you are to be commended and rewarded for your winning ways.

    With that said, if you still do not want to accept your prize for being the best in April, I will simply hold onto it until the end of the season.

  45. NMR says:

    Maybe I’m overreacting, but I’m not so sure that is the case.

    From my understanding, he couldn’t be sent down PROTECTED from another team claiming him…and his $3m salary.

    It’s not just mental with him at this point. That much is clear. His stuff isn’t what it used to be and his control is getting worse. I think there is still plenty of potential, but would another team be willing to pay $3m PLUS his arbitrated raises over the next two seasons to find out?

    I don’t know.

  46. pattonbb says:

    “…..where all parents are strong and wise and capable and all children are happy and beloved. I don’t know. Maybe it was Utah.”

  47. Jandy says:


  48. Jandy says:

    How many times has he been told this? lol

  49. pattonbb says:

    “You’ve never heard of the Millennium Falcon? … It’s the ship that made the Kessel run in less than 12 parsecs.”

  50. Jandy says:

    hey, good to see you my Hippo friend. I was wondering where you were. Make sure you check in every morning :)

  51. 100 on the UNDER for me ;)

  52. Jandy says:


  53. Jandy says:

    Good job, NMR :)

  54. JAL says:

    Actually Marte in LF, Tabata in RF, Jones 1b

  55. Jandy says:

    100 No decision for Mother Theresa.

  56. theplanisworking says:

    Yes ma’am.

    Mornings are the busiest time for me now, with all the job search stuff going on……………… but I will try to post something to let you guys know the “Hippo was Here.”

    Hope the Bucs pull one out today………. I really dont like Milwaukee.

  57. Jandy says:

    Was it you, NMR, who mentioned last night about how he was moving his shoulder after every pitch? Maybe something IS wrong. (besides his head).

  58. theplanisworking says:

    ………….. or Desperate Houswives………

  59. Brandie says:

    Fell asleep early. I got lots on my mind…some of it I a, not reacting to very well. I need to get my act together. Anyway, In am thinking Flying High Again. A little Ozzy never hurt anyone.

  60. Jandy says:

    Jones is starting to make me cringe wayyy more than Barmes makes anyone cringe.

  61. JRay3 says:

    Good morning to the window. Well our Buccos have certainly taken their share of lumps this series and probably are welcoming the off day tomorrow and getting back home.

    As for the line today, well I submit these simple facts…the Brewers have won nine consecutive against the Pirates and have now gone 46-7 against the Bucs at Miller Park in the past 53 games. Last night I felt was a great chance to exorcise the demons after Marte hit the three run HR to give the Bucs the lead after trailing 7-3 and we all saw what happened quickly after. Just zero evidence supporting the Bucs turning this awful tide around in Milwaukee.

    I will take 100 on the LOSS and certainly hope Jeanmar proves me wrong and provides one decent start out in the Cream City.

    Lets Go Bucs!

  62. Jandy says:

    LOL…did ya make your wager, Hippo?

  63. Patrick(RI) says:

    I think the best move is to give him starts until one of the guys in the wings is ready, then send him down and hope somebody claims him (this assumes the Mgr wont leave him in for more that 4-5 runs).

  64. theplanisworking says:

    Poor Ozzy.
    He normally is a mess, but without Sharon there, he is going to be completely lost.

    But, your wish is my command.

    Maybe if the Pirates win today, there will be
    No More Tears. ;)

  65. NMR says:

    Was not me, Jandy. I’m not usually around for the game threads.

  66. SJB says:

    No, it’s not the case. No such thing as a Pirates fan over reacting. ;)

    Another season or two of losing and villagers with pitchforks and torches outside Nutting’s home wouldn’t be over reacting….but whatever, it’s only game. Checkers anyone?

  67. theplanisworking says:

    His mechanics have been goofy since he was in the Dodgers organization.

    I think he may be slightly injured, but I honestly cant say.

    Hope he turns it around soon, if not, it may be time to look at other options.

  68. Naterosboro says:

    I hear ya. But then he’d be the staple in the cleanup hole and that’d just work out too well.

    This is our Buccos we’re talking about haha!

  69. Jandy says:

    sweet…thanks friend :)

  70. Baywatch says:


  71. Naterosboro says:

    Must really be trying to up those page hits for the Tribs coverage of Duquesne!

  72. JHadar says:

    Could there be a hidden injury — it doesn’t take much to get some pitchers off their game?

  73. SJB says:

    Milo, you were right. Crosby not playing.

  74. Jandy says:

    Sorry, friend. But someone did mention that last night…and when I watched JMac, it seemed he was definitely doing something with this shoulder. Weird.

  75. Jandy says:


  76. Brandie says:

    Read about Rick Ankiel per one of the links JAL posted. Rough stuff. Makes me look at Sanchez and JMac in a different way. I mean, you make the choice to expose yourself to criticism when things are going well, let alone when things are bad. It can mess anyone up. Gotta suck that up and be professional. I wish them both and you my friend well. Maybe there will be No More Tears for us all.

  77. SJB says:


  78. Jandy says:


  79. Brandie says:

    Risk or Perfection.

  80. Bizrow says:

    Ok, can’t be sent down without exposing him to waivers?

    I don’t know if he could refuse the assignment, but I don’t think he has enough ML time

  81. theplanisworking says:

    Thanks Brandie! :)

  82. NMR says:

    No, I’m glad you mentioned it.

  83. likeabugonarug says:

    So is this one of those games that you throw to the pitcher for the out at first?

  84. SJB says:

    Hmmm…Lawn Darts at midnight?

  85. JHadar says:

    Convenience List?

  86. JHadar says:

    The new ones aren’t sharpened.

  87. SJB says:

    I’ve got the old ones. Shhh, don’t tell anyone.

  88. JHadar says:

    You could throw them overhanded and stick ‘em in a walnut tree.

    I think kids get injured more today because they don’t have to learn how to play with dangerous toys.

  89. Jandy says:

    Only if you play against Ryan Braun ;)

  90. Joey Mellons says:

    50 on the WIN. Lets go Bucs.

  91. SJB says:

    Agreed. By the time I was 6 I learned all about things like general physics, human anatomy and electricity.

  92. Bizrow says:

    Thats what I was thinking

  93. bman says:


    Hope I’m wrong, but I’ll take 50 on the LOSS

  94. SJB says:

    Also found out that if your teeth hit the asphalt at the right speed and angle you can make sparks. ;)

  95. Jandy says:

    Doesn’t surprise me. No need to rush him back. See how game 1 goes.

  96. Sisyphus says:

    The Dude abides.

  97. Jandy says:

    I’m sending good vibes (and prayers) to both of you (Brandie and Hippo). hang in there!

  98. theplanisworking says:

    Does one find that at a Convenience Store?

  99. Jandy says:

    No that’s what you TAKE to the convenience store :P

  100. Brandie says:

    Let him rest…No worries.

  101. NMR says:

    Tim Williams of Pirate Prospects had an article showing that the same sudden drop in velocity also preceded Charlie Morton’s Tommy John surgery, even before he was experiencing pain.

    I’ve also read a FanGraphs article that looked at velocity drop and injury rate and found that one preceded the other just 11% of the time. Still more than the standard injury rate of 2%, but not exatly a sure bet.

  102. NMR says:

    The FanGraphs comment is HEAVILY paraphrased, btw. Much more detailed and sicentific in the actual article.

  103. Brandie says:

    Thank you Jandy.

  104. theplanisworking says:

    I thank you, ma’am.

    Much obliged. :)

  105. Patrick says:

    I bought a Shawarma from a street vendor named Burgos once.

  106. theplanisworking says:

    Playoffs, I will abide by your decision to hold the prize til the end of the season.

    Thank You for the kind words, sir.

  107. JAL says:

    He can be sent through waivers and if he clears sent to the minors. If they bring him back and then DFA him again he can refuse assignment and declare himself and FA

  108. Patrick says:

    “We’re on a mission from God.”

  109. Patrick says:

    I’m pretty sure that weird thing he does with his shoulder is an attempt to throw a baseball.

    I think.

  110. Patrick says:


  111. Jandy says:

    No Orpik either. Hopefully Depres can crack some playing time.

  112. Jandy says:

    Of course, Engelland has first dibs.

  113. blazer says:

    Give me 100 on the ND please

  114. NMR says:

    Liriano May 11th

    Morton May 14th

    as per 24/7 quoting Hurdle

  115. Jandy says:

    lol Patrick

  116. NMR says:

    Thanks, JAL.

  117. JRay3 says:

    Great news, maybe the lift this rotation really needs assuming Liriano and Morton continue with the successes they have had during the rehab process.

    AJ, Wandy, Locke, Liriano and Morton certainly a step up from what we witnessed in April. Makes the 15-12 record all the more shocking.

  118. theplanisworking says:


  119. JD says:

    50 no decision please.

  120. Jandy says:

    Tabata with a single.

  121. NYBuccoFan says:

    Well if it were fixed we wouldn’t’ be having this discussion.

  122. WVStarship says:

    I know where Nutting lives.

    Just sayin’

  123. WVStarship says:

    So, what else is new?

  124. Patrick(ri) says:

    Why is it we have McDonald instead of alternatves at Indy? Oh, yeah . . . His glove . His bat makes you yearn for Ikawa, but his glove . . .

  125. Bizrow says:

    Well, this is a pretty crappy start

  126. JAL says:

    It’s a typical Miller field start

  127. Jandy says:

    Bases loaded. One out. Need a DP!

  128. JRay3 says:

    When your two starting SS hit .181 and .105 respectively they better field the position.

    Another long inning, another long day ahead.

  129. Lad9 says:

    I guess it is too late to change my bet to a loss. Oh well, jumping out The Window again today. This even sounds gruesome on the radio so far.

  130. 21sthebest says:

    I would like a triple play and a rule that we can carry the extra out over to the 2nd.

  131. JAL says:

    Nice try by Jones

  132. Jandy says:

    Not greedy, are ya?

  133. JRay3 says:

    When your starter is limited to around 80 pitches, not good to see him throw 27 of them and still be in the first inning.

  134. NMR says:

    I tend to agree with Locke over McD, and not because of their last start.

  135. 21sthebest says:

    Well Tim Nitwit probably just jinxed it.

    “One strike away from a Houdini act by Gomez.”

  136. Jandy says:

    Whew….limited the damage to 1 run.

  137. JAL says:

    nice job limiting damage

  138. Patrick(ri) says:

    But he did not blow-up. Got out of the big jam.

  139. Jandy says:


  140. Jandy says:

    he sure did.

  141. Bizrow says:

    Wondering if Gomez is the guy that gets moved when Contreras comes up, supposedly by the weekend?

  142. Nate83 says:

    So who is available to go 3 or 4 innings after Gomez gets chased after 3 innings. I’m guessing Wilson who I think they should have started in the first place.

    I will trade a Pirate loss today for a Braun suspension sometime in the next week or so. I absolutely do not like that guy. He is close to Ray Lewis level of dislike for me.

  143. JAL says:

    Pedro makes up for error

  144. Jandy says:

    figures. lol

  145. Nate83 says:

    I have to believe it will be him or Mazzola.

  146. JAL says:

    Probably not, Gomez can do long relief . More likely Mazarro. When they DFAed Sanchez opened spot on 40

  147. Bizrow says:

    Now lets not give it back

  148. NMR says:

    Damning evidence of the worthlessness of WAR applied to pitchers. James McDonald is rated higher than Wandy Rodriguez this season.

  149. Milo Hamilton says:

    Jared Hughes can’t be feeling very safe right now either.

  150. Jandy says:

    That’s just wrong.

  151. NMR says:

    Can Gomez be optioned now that his contract has been purchased?

  152. NMR says:

    Especially since he has the almighty options.

  153. theplanisworking says:

    I thought WAR was the ultimate statistic, and those who didnt like it/understand it/use it were heathens???

    This is not directed at you, but I have taken grief over the years because I think WAR is overrated.

  154. Milo Hamilton says:

    And how stinky he’s pitched.

  155. 21sthebest says:

    I’m not seeing it that way NMR on baseball reference. -0.1 for Wandy. -0.9 for JMac.

  156. Bizrow says:

    I’m betting he could refuse assignment, much like Sanchez

  157. 21sthebest says:

    The people that I know that pay attention to WAR don’t think of it as the ultimate statistic.

  158. NMR says:

    I’m a fan of position player WAR. I believe it accomplishes what the creators intended, one general statistic that accounts for overall player performance.

    The intent was never for it to be the ultimate statistic. That idea has been bastardized by those who haven’t accepted it and those who use it without understanding.

    It’s a broad paint brush that allows you to say, with some degree of confidence, that Ben Zobrist(5.8 WAR) was a better player in 2012 than Mark Trumbo(2.2 WAR) without analyzing all facets of each players game.

    I’ve never felt the system accurately did the same for pitchers, though.

  159. NMR says:

    Exactly. The ones who use it correctly.

  160. NMR says:

    I was using the Fangraphs version.

  161. NMR says:

    Secondary for this club. :)

  162. 21sthebest says:

    Yeah I agree although I’d still analyze all facets of a player’s game. I tend to pay attention to it more though when I’m looking at the free agent market for lesser needs than a starter like a 4th outfielder, backup catcher, bench guy. This was one of the reasons why I never would’ve signed McLouth last year. I think I was the only person around that liked Xavier Paul better, not that his WAR was anything to write home about. And I know, his PHing was dreadful.

  163. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    I missed the window!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Hate that almost as much as I hate the Brewers, what an ugly game last night.

  164. JAL says:

    Jenmar got through 3 in better shape than Wandy or JMac did

  165. Milo Hamilton says:

    And there’s the other problem with it. No uniformity. I can see it as a tool for front offices to try to compare players. But I don’t need it, ever.

  166. theplanisworking says:

    I just think the over-statisticion of baseball sometimes clouds judgement.

    For example, some people value wins, some dont.
    Some people value RBI’s, some people dont.
    Some people value ERA, some people dont.

    All I am saying is that WAR has come to replace some stats, but you have to look at almost all stats for a player to have a good idea what is going on. The dismissal of certain stats, and the overvaluation of WAR sometimes is a bit much, IMO.

    And sometimes, all you need is the good old “eye test”………… as in J Sanchez stunk, adn you didnt need many stats to determine that. :)

  167. 21sthebest says:

    I read something, and I forget where, that Fangraphs and BR were working on coming up with something uniform.

  168. theplanisworking says:

    Agreed Milo.

    How can you trust a statistic if it isnt uniformly applied, or is different depending on which site you go to. Batting avaeage is determined one way. WAR is determined multiple ways.

    Not criticizing, just makes it somewhat confusing.

  169. NMR says:

    Absolutely. Both entities are in the process of unifying, for what its worth.

    The only time I really pay much attention is with players I do not know. Quicker to get an idea of a guys skill set than looking at the counting stats.

  170. NMR says:

    In my opinion, you SHOULD be criticizing. Completely valid point.

  171. Milo Hamilton says:

    I saw that too. I think it’s hilarious that the geekdom can’t even get it straight. Until they tell who the mysterious “replacement player” it has no credibility with me.

  172. JRay3 says:

    Certainly has settled down after wiggling out of first inning jam. Highly effective spot start thus far, hoping he could make it through the fifth though pitch count is high.

  173. Dom says:

    Does anyone know the rule of thumb how many starts a pitching prospect will obtain before he gets promoted?

    I checked Stolmy’s #s and he really looks to be due for a promotion. He didn’t let up a run in his last start and his ERA is almost identical to what it was beforehand as it can’t go much further down.

  174. JRay3 says:

    And right at the 65th pitch he gives up the solo shot to Gomez…this is the area Searage was quoted as saying he needs to see how sharp Jeanmar would be.

  175. Milo Hamilton says:

    Until they stop determining who wins or loses the game with a counting stat, I’ll continue to trust them.

  176. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    should go to second place then!!!

    Especially since I missed at least the first week.

  177. theplanisworking says:

    Sharp as a ball?

  178. NMR says:

    Pretty amazing pickup over all, frankly. At least compared to expectations.

  179. Milo Hamilton says:

    Quick, get the oxygen for Bernie.

  180. JRay3 says:

    And pitch number 66 also leaves the yard, may have spoken a bit too soon.

  181. 21sthebest says:

    You could easily argue that no statistic is perfect. That was one of the justifications that people thought would help A.J. to do well here as compared to the AL East.

    You know what they say. Statistics are like bikinis. They show a lot but not everything.

  182. JHadar says:

    My hunch is Morris. I’m guessing they brought him up as a place holder and want him back in Indy.

  183. Jandy says:

    spoke too soon lol

  184. NMR says:

    You still don’t understand the difference between team and individual, huh?

  185. Reading says:

    Baseball rules do not mandate that a second home run must immediately follow a preceding home run.

  186. NMR says:

    Thank you. Voice of reason.

  187. JRay3 says:

    And to think we still have to play the Brewers seven more times in the month of May.

  188. NMR says:

    Well then…

  189. theplanisworking says:

    You are right.

    But I would rather have a consistent stat, like BA, vs. an inconsistent stat, like WAR.

    WAR can be useful…………….. but you have to take it into context, and you have to have nmany qualifiers for it………… which I feel dulls its usefulness.

    It is nice to talk about, I mean, we got a bikini reference today!!

  190. Bizrow says:

    The FO will still probably say he has “stuff to work on”, but it would be nice to see him challenged in AAA, see what he can do.

    I think the “rule of thumb” is up to the organization

  191. 21sthebest says:

    And if I tell my wife someone said that to me, she’d never believe me.

  192. Bizrow says:

    + 1

  193. 21sthebest says:

    Yeah but not in this garbage ballpark. I’d rather watch one triple than a dozen homeruns.

  194. theplanisworking says:

    Mother Teresa never spoke too soon. :)

  195. Milo Hamilton says:

    When a guy scores a run it doesn’t count for your team ? Guess not.

  196. NMR says:

    Seems like management keeps a guy at a given level for at least two months before promotion. Tony Sanchez, for instance, was promoted at the beginning of June last year. Stolmy’s in a similar situation.

    And I agree, he does seem pretty freakin’ dominant.

    Another thing to note is that he needs to be on the big league roster next year or else the team will likely lose him to waivers. Seems like a good bet to see him as a September callup if AAA goes well.

  197. Jandy says:

    C’mon Fort, get something started.

  198. NMR says:

    And every other counting stat?

  199. NMR says:

    Hahaha, well done to the both of you.

  200. NMR says:

    With Aramis Ramirez in the lineup.

  201. Jandy says:

    A walk will do…Johnny Mac…move him around…

  202. Nate83 says:

    I thought that I saw somewhere that this front office likes to see at the very least 80-100 innings at a level for a starting pitcher. In Stolmy’s case I think he already had AA experience so maybe he could be brought up quicker.

    However the AAA pitching has been good and there are only so many starters you can have on the roster. Taillon will be going up soon and it is possible Locke or JMac might come back down and McPhearson will start pitching as well.

  203. theplanisworking says:

    See, this is why I dont like stats.

    Not because I dont understand them, but I am a Hippo, and Hippos CANNOT count!!!!

    I just look at the pictures…………..

  204. Frankie says:

    Boy, Even Ronny Cedeno would look good in Pirate uniform.

  205. Jandy says:

    These missed bunts are killing me.

  206. JRay3 says:

    Four in Pittsburgh May 13-16, and still three more in this gosh forsaken place May 24-26.

    My detest for the Brewers grows and grows but at some point the Pirates have to do it on the field and start beating these guys.

    Could be in 4th place by day’s end, a lot of that feel good after the STL series will have quickly vanished by the showing at this house of horrors.

  207. Jandy says:

    and count your toes…

  208. Milo Hamilton says:

    I’m sorry I’m not as smart as you and cannot grasp the concept.

  209. Jandy says:

    if only the imagination could manufacture runs…

  210. 21sthebest says:


  211. JRay3 says:


    So frustrating the lack of being able to get that ball down on a bunt that is shown by this team. #FUNDAMENTALS

  212. Bizrow says:

    Lets hope we can get one more inning out of Gomar

  213. 21sthebest says:

    It’s discussions like these which is why I love stats.

  214. JohninOshkosh says:

    It’s a nice place to watch a game. And I know that I can drive 90 miles and there wont be a rainout.

    But it is a homerun park.

  215. Jandy says:

    Cross your fingers….and your toes…

  216. Jandy says:

    welp, forget that…

  217. Frankie says:

    I guess not Wilson is in. No pinch hitter for Gomez?

  218. Frankie says:

    Better than Jonny Mac or Barmes

  219. theplanisworking says:

    You know, for all the “Nutting is Cheap” stuff, my biggest problem with the PBC is their talent acquisition and development.

    Players that cannot do Little League fundamentals, coaches that cannot coach said fundamentals are killing this franchise.

    The amount of poor bunts, baserunning errors, failure to hit cutoff man just boggle the mind. I would rather have a team fundamentally sound, than a team with “much promise”.

    But what do I know?

  220. Bizrow says:

    They brought in Wilson??

    Ah, forgot about the short bench

  221. theplanisworking says:

    Easy for you to say….. you can count.

  222. 21sthebest says:

    But a head case. And those can detract from what you’re trying to do. We have enough players that are high maintenance, IMO.

  223. JRay3 says:

    Very similar to Chase Field out this way in terms of retractable roof, launching pad type ballparks.

  224. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    Why did Gomez bat if they were putting in a new pitcher?
    -Great strategy

  225. 21sthebest says:

    Do watch many other MLB games? It’s an epidemic.

  226. Frankie says:

    Batting .325 with Houston…LOL

  227. Frankie says:

    Short bench……great excuse….runner on first and one out….

  228. JRay3 says:

    Somebody who can get Ryan Braun out…Justin Wilson. Braun 6-12 this series, can I ask MLB to randomly test him? #CHEAT

  229. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    Let’s not get carried away. Milwaukee is the ultimate nemesis for the Buccos, before this trip, they were in 1st and winning every series.

    -This is baseball. It happens, but I sure don’t remember it hitting anybody any harder than the Bucs in Milwaukee.

  230. JRay3 says:

    Walker and Snider have handcuffed the team all series. Now reports that if Walker can not do more Friday they will back date him and place on 15 day DL.

  231. Dom says:

    You’re right. They have Cole, Oliver, Lariano, McPherson, and Irwin. There will also be Karstens and Morton shortly.

    We really need to make room for Stormly though we should really be banking on him starting the 2014 rotation.

  232. theplanisworking says:

    Well, not really. I do rely on the 4-letter for highlights, and yes it seems to be an epidemic. But I will say this………. go look at the Reds, or Cardinals, or Giants, or Braves, or A’s, or Orioles……………. and you wont see the mistakes that you see with the Pirates, and if you do, the mistakes will be far fewer.

    I just think for this organization to brag about “The Pirate Way”, and toot their horn for their development system, the results should be far greater than what they are.

    I also understand that we see the Pirates mistakes more, but they dont seem to be improving that area very much.

    A team can never be a consistent winner if they keep shooting themselves in the foot.

  233. pattonbb says:

    They can have his lazy ass.

  234. Bizrow says:

    Not a bad start by the Brewers rookie…

    Just said that hoping to jinx him……

  235. JohninOshkosh says:

    Saw on the Mets broadcast that the last 8 months are the 8 highest months of strikeouts per month in the 135+ years of baseball.

  236. 21sthebest says:

    “go look at the Reds, or Cardinals, or Giants, or Braves, or A’s, or Orioles”

    Yeah I agree. There’s a reason the really good teams are really good teams.

    As far as how they “brag” or “toot their horn,” you really pay attention to that stuff as having any meaning?

  237. NMR says:

    Right, because thats exactly what I said.


  238. Bizrow says:

    No, but it does make them hard to like

    Just do the job ;-)

  239. theplanisworking says:

    Not really, in the big picture.
    But when an organization has lost for 20 straight years, they shouldnt be tooting anything just yet.

    And I think you missed my point above….
    the really good teams are really good teams because they have a grasp of the fundamentals…… which allows them to develop and concentrate on other areas.

    The Pirates cant move on to other areas until they master the fundamentals.


  240. NMR says:

    Shhhh. You’re about to get scolded for not being as good of a fan as SJB.

  241. Nate83 says:

    Olivar, Mcpherson and Irwin will probably be there for a while. Add Taillon and that only leaves one spot. If Locke and JMac stay up as middle relievers/starters there is room. That would have to make Karstan a middle reliever as well.

    There are always injuries and they could use 6 man staff in AAA to keep innings down on some of the younger guys. Anyway this is a good problem to have and hasn’t ever really been an issue in recent years.

  242. NMR says:

    Hahaha, you just said you don’t watch other MLB games, then instructed someone to go watch other games in which you claim good fundementals are exhibited.

    Tsk tsk tsk!

  243. 21sthebest says:

    Well that’s what I was trying to say.

  244. theplanisworking says:

    I based it on watching other teams highlights.
    If I could glean that from highlights, I assumed anyone could do it.

    Man, you really reached to parse that one, eh?

    Tsk, tsk, tsk, … right back at ya! ;)

  245. 21sthebest says:

    “they shouldnt be tooting anything just yet.”

    They can market the team however they want and they have to answer questions by the media. Obviously they don’t do a very good job of it but what front office doesn’t talk about the players they are developing in pretty much the same way?

    “the really good teams are really good teams because they have a grasp of the fundamentals…… which allows them to develop and concentrate on other areas.

    The Pirates cant move on to other areas until they master the fundamentals.”

    I have no idea what that means. Anyways, I think some teams are good despite the ability to bunt or be smart on the basepaths.

  246. 21sthebest says:

    Plan, they show baserunning errors, poor bunting, and missing the cutoff guy when they’re showing the highlights?

  247. Jandy says:

    Walker … well…put some tape on…suck it up. GEEZ.

    Snider…cut the bacon, please.

  248. Jandy says:

    that’s amazing.

  249. NMR says:

    It’s been a minute since we got into a tif, plan.

    Just doing it for old times sake, haha.

  250. Jandy says:

    take it outside boys ;)

  251. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    JMac has had a drop in velocity over the last 3 years though, was CM the same way?

  252. theplanisworking says:

    Yes, I have seen highlights where one team scores due to missing the cutoff man, players missing bunts, and runners getting thrown out….killing an inning.

    Yes, I have seen them.

  253. Jandy says:

    Fort with a Homer :)

  254. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    Fort goes deep, very nice production from both catchers right now….

  255. theplanisworking says:

    It is?

  256. Frankie says:

    OK you convinced me

  257. NMR says:

    Just think if the steroid era was allowed to continue?

    Games would be nothing but walks, strikeouts, and home runs.

    Also known as a sabremetrists wet dream.

  258. Jandy says:

    I grasp what you’re trying to convey, Hippo. If you can’t execute the fundamentals, how can you be expected to make the difficult/splash plays? The Buccos definitely need practice in basic baseball 101. That’s why I said ^ there that the missed bunts are killing me.

  259. Jandy says:


  260. Jandy says:

    it is!

  261. Jandy says:

    lol NMR. nice way to put it.

  262. theplanisworking says:

    Lets say you are a teacher, or professor, or coach………and you have 4 things to teach.

    If you dont have the fundamentals mastered, not you have to introduce a fifth topic, which logically takes time away from the other 4 topics……. or maybe you have to skip a topic.

    That is all I am saying.

  263. Jandy says:


  264. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    I can take my lumps….not scared

  265. Jandy says:

    Well, if nothing else, we’re beaning them Brewers.

  266. theplanisworking says:

    Thank You, Mother Teresa, the voice of reason!!!!

    Sometimes I think certain posters just like to be contrarian, ma’am.

    I am glad someone understands me. ;)

  267. 21sthebest says:

    Teams score runs by not executing bunts? Teams score runs when a cutoff guy is missed or an extra base is advanced?

  268. 21sthebest says:

    Difficult plays like on defense? Aren’t they made due mostly to having physical talent, quick reactions and good hands as opposed to fundamentals which I think are more a function of the mental side of the game and understanding situations.

  269. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    JAL’S money on that sort of stuff..

  270. theplanisworking says:

    Oh my Lord……… have you never seen a runner score when a cutoff man is missed? If you hit the cutoff man, he can make a play at the plate…… if you miss the cutoff man, the ball is rolling on the ground, and the ground is sure as he** not going to throw a runner out.

    Have you never seen a player miss a bunt, and a runner get picked off, killing an inning? Have you never seen a player foul off a bunt with 2 strikes, resulting in an out?

    Come on. Debating is fun and all, but I think you are taking this way tool far.


  271. Jandy says:

    Please do~!!!

  272. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    however he’s showing again why Russell Martin was signed. 4 SB’s against him now?

  273. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    Figured the Brewers would get that one back…

  274. NMR says:

    Been impressed with this Segura kid. Looks like a nice find in return for a couple months of Grienke.

  275. JohninOshkosh says:

    I hate watching Braun bat. Constantly stepping out, adjusting things, twitching.

    Ha! “Braunnie” hits into a DP.

  276. 21sthebest says:

    Oh so other teams make these type of fundamental errors too? I agree and that has been my point.

  277. Frankie says:

    Pinch hitter Snider. I guess the bench was not that short. Marte homer…..

  278. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    Of course they found a “nice find.” They don’t have Pirates scouts.

  279. Jandy says:


  280. Jandy says:

    and we got us a tie ballgame :)

  281. JRay3 says:

    It’s a Marte Parte….two run shot and Starling does it again! He is growing right before our eyes. Tie game.

  282. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    Nice, thanks…Gamecast didn’t show that until now.

  283. Lad9 says:

    Take that Bernie! Wow, ya gotta love Marte. He is the real deal.

  284. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    I still say Marte will be as good as Cutch in 2-3 years.

  285. theplanisworking says:

    Do I need an invitation to a Marte Partay??

    And I dont have a gift, either………….. ;)

  286. NMR says:

    How’s that Sabathia trade workin’ out for them?

  287. theplanisworking says:

    Well, some people have said he is Cutch’s replacement.

  288. Patrick(ri) says:

    A quote from last night to remember: “he might hit as many as 20 in a few years” — John Wehner “analyst” on Marte’s power.

  289. NMR says:

    You’ve gotta fight, for your right, to Marte.

  290. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    Let’s not go there yet. I believe that will be Polanco.

  291. theplanisworking says:

    The Beastie Boys will be over to kick you any minute now………. ;)

  292. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    really? Ouch dude

  293. Jandy says:


  294. NMR says:

    He and Cutch will reach free agency in the same year, 2019, barring an extension for either.

  295. NMR says:

    Is this thing on?

  296. pattonbb says:

    That’s a long time to enjoy both of them.

  297. theplanisworking says:

    Oh good grief!!!

    Even when a good thing happens, like a stolen base, a bad thing happens (an injury) !!!

    Milwaukee is a chamber of horrors!!

  298. NMR says:

    It’s my Marte and I’ll cry if I want to.

  299. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    I heard double digits.

  300. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    what happened to Tabby?

  301. Frankie says:

    Way to hustle Inge.

  302. JRay3 says:

    Is the injury to Tabata? Where did he get hurt?

  303. theplanisworking says:

    McDonald pinch-running??

    Wait, Milwaukee made a fundamental gaffe!

    We score!!

  304. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    Take my wife………please

  305. theplanisworking says:

    looks like ankle sliding into 2nd.

  306. NMR says:

    Cutch’s deal never stops amazing me. The single greatest thing this Front Office and Bob Nutting have done or will do.

  307. Patrick(ri) says:

    I thought replay showed a hamstring pull just as he took off for 2nd?

  308. theplanisworking says:

    Do we want her?
    That is the question.

  309. Jandy says:

    Nice! Inge hits in JMac

  310. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    Finally found something JMac is useful for

  311. theplanisworking says:

    If you say so.

    Personally, I think me running down the street is much more amazing, but I am biased………

  312. NMR says:

    This is my surprised face.

  313. Jandy says:

    Well, I gotta close up here and head home. Hopefully the news is good when I arrive there. Go Buccos!

  314. Patrick(ri) says:

    Brewers fans must feel about Weeks like we felt about Cedeno.

  315. theplanisworking says:

    Whoever sang that will be by to kick you also……….:)

  316. theplanisworking says:

    See you on the Pens thread!

    GO PENS !

  317. JRay3 says:

    Thanks at least Presley is hitting .302 and had another HR last night, get him ready.

  318. NMR says:

    Pedro with an 0-2 single off a LOOGY?

    I’m playing the lotto.

  319. NMR says:

    Brewers fans must feel about Axford like we feel about Sanchez.

    Ah, common ground.

  320. JHadar says:

    I tell ya, one of these he’s going right over that Mendoza line.

  321. Naje says:

    That LOOGY just happened to be once-PBC closer Mike Gonzalez….whoa.

  322. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    WTH, Melancon gives up a hit!! What a bum…

  323. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    Grill cheese time?

    Let’s get at least one from this place.

  324. Ghost says:

    I’ve figured out how to break the Miller Park curse for us. If we get this win,
    some intrepid Pirate fan has to sneak the Jolly Roger up the flagpole there at Miller. Who’s up for the task? John in Oshkosh would be the obvious…

  325. theplanisworking says:

    I may be a candidate.
    After all, who would suspect a Hippo doing anything like that?

  326. Baywatch says:

    Methinks they had JMac Sr. played for RoleyBat depth on that last one!

  327. Ghostc says:

    You would definitely make SportsCenter. And Animal Planet.

  328. theplanisworking says:

    + a bunch.

  329. Naje says:

    Hurdle’s done an excellent job with his shortened bench this series… seriously. Team has scored 18 runs with two guys basically unable to play.

  330. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    agree, you score 8 runs you should win the game…

  331. Ghost says:

    I agree too. Some people aren’t happy with certain moves Hurdle makes. But overall you gotta love what he’s getting out of his cast. The offensive moves with JMac, for example.

  332. Patrick(ri) says:

    This guy’s average is .067? Brewer curse.

  333. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    Heck of an AB for that kid there.

  334. JHadar says:

    Cards 4 – Reds 2 Final

  335. theplanisworking says:


    See some of yinz on the Pens thread tonight!

  336. Patrick(ri) says:

    Grilli stays cool nice job.

  337. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    Raise it!!! Grilli is a beast.

  338. Lad9 says:

    Raise it! Hell of a road trip. Way to come back Buccos. Now lets go Pens!

  339. Dom says:

    One for One! Hopefully, the Pens will make is two for two today.

  340. Ghost says:

    Okay, time for a certain hippo to climb the flagpole, Jolly Roger held in teeth.

  341. JRay3 says:

    Behind a four run 8th inning powered once again by Starling Marte and an 11th save in as many tries for Jason Grilli, the Pirates salvage one game of the three game set in Milwaukee downing the Brewers at Miller Park 6-4 and there was noooooooo doubt about it.

    The Pirates will welcome their first off day since April 11th and will return to action on Friday night when the Washington Nationals come into visit PNC. AJ Burnett is scheduled to take the mound in the series opener.

    Lets Go Bucs!

  342. JHadar says:

    OK — Here’s the Headline I want to see tomorrow:


  343. Patrick(ri) says:

    I swear our catchers bulked-up cuz they knew Grilli was gonna maul them at the end of games.

  344. JRay3 says:

    6-4 looks a heck of a lot better than 5-5!

  345. theplanisworking says:

    Well, looks like the flagpole will be horizontal then!

  346. Bizrow says:

    Did you ever doubt Nostrabizus??? ;-)

  347. Baywatch says:

    That’s the BEST 1 out of 3 for the NON-series win I’ve seen in a long time!

  348. Ghost says:

    Hilarious imagery!
    The angry Milwaukee villagers will close in and have at you then. I remove my hat in your memory. Seems like we hardly knew ye, Hippo.

  349. Baywatch says:

    Make that SEVEN and 46 for the past six years at Miller Park! Yesssssss!

  350. Ghost says:

    Not to be confused with Nostra Cosa, I presume.

  351. Ghost says:

    Yes indeedy. They brought their brooms but we broke those brooms over our knees.

  352. Baywatch says:


  353. Jandy says:

    I made it to see end of the ninth. Grilli did great…woot! Let’s hear it for the hippo!

  354. NMR says:

    I read these recaps in my play-by-play voice. Always well done!!

  355. JHadar says:

    I thought it was EIGHT

  356. Bizrow says:


  357. theplanisworking says:

    According to Ghost, I met my demise on the Milwaukee flagpole that I bent horizontally.


  358. John Lease says:

    Why are both Liriano AND Morton assumed to be going right into the rotation?

    Liriano, yes. Morton is going to have to show something. And no 5 start leash for either.

  359. Ghost says:

    “No 5 start leash for either.”
    Meaning, “no leash?” or “no (guaranteed) five starts?” After Sanchez, I’m guessing you mean the latter.
    I agree that we shouldn’t be assuming anything with Morton yet. DK has made this point a few times too as Morton is coming off TJ surgery. Heck, even Stephen Strasburg just had a forearm scare and nobody really knows what to expect with him either, though he’s now over a year past his surgery.

  360. Don’t get swept. Still 4 games over .500

    The NO DECISION wins today’s line.
    Looking forward to a day off tomorrow.
    See you all back for THREE-PLAY FRIDAY

    theplanisworking ~ 1000
    Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) ~ 900
    tdb1977 ~ 800
    fellocolonial ~ 700
    KJX ~ 525
    RobertoForever ~ 490
    bman ~ 470
    Jason81 ~ 400
    radio wave ~ 400
    Frankie ~ 375
    EricBowser ~ 350
    JohninOshkosh ~ 350
    Keith ~ 300
    Pucknutz ~ 300
    Boise Bucco ~ 200
    JaxBuc ~ 180
    JoeyBats ~ 175
    cmat0829 ~ 150
    JUCOFan ~ 125
    PetroSteel ~ 100
    Steve J. Smith ~ 100
    Karen22 ~ 75
    Bill Born ~ 65
    mlrgenuine ~ 50
    TJ ~ 50
    tmp444 ~ 25
    Chico ~ EVEN
    DemonDachshund ~ EVEN
    Evan ~ EVEN
    JD ~ EVEN
    Joey Mellons ~ EVEN
    Nate83 ~ EVEN
    pants-n-at ~ EVEN
    TCB ~ EVEN
    TK ~ EVEN
    Ruffian706 ~ -40
    Brandie ~ -75
    absolute59 ~ -100
    Dadtackular ~ -100
    Dcpinpgh ~ -100
    Kevin S ~ -100
    kr70 ~ -100
    steelercrazy ~ -100
    stickyweb ~ -100
    OZ ~ -150
    Dom ~ -175
    JRay3 ~ -175
    blazer ~ -200
    Ghost ~ -200
    Kevin ~ -300
    cherokee23 ~ -350
    cosmo ~ -400
    Lad9 ~ -500
    stuart66 ~ -500
    Arriba Wilver ~ -525
    pattonbb ~ -600
    Jandy ~ -700
    JMB ~ -800
    Bizrow ~ -1200

    ***First Place at the end of MAY will win:***

    First Place at the end of the season will win:

    Second Place at the end of the season will win:

    Third Place at the end of the season will win:

    Fourth Place at the end of the season will win:

    Fifth Place at the end of the season will win:

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