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Morning Java: Why Freeh’s irrelevant to Paterno

By Dejan Kovacevic | Trib Total Media

Morning, Lunatics …

>> The Monday column takes up the always pleasant topic of Penn State football and Joe Paterno, which really should be two separate issues at this point but — for all kinds of unsavory reasons — still isn’t.

Here is the Deadspin article referenced in the column.

And here is the full transcript of the Paterno interview unearthed by FramingPaterno.com.

Now, I’ll hear from the relentless defenders about the Freeh Report. They love to poke holes in Freeh, to ask you if you’ve read every syllable, to ask you to debate this one weirdo in California on the topic. (Seriously.)

I have read Freeh. But Freeh is irrelevant as it relates to Paterno.

The most damning strikes against Paterno are his own acknowledgements that he was informed of a sexual encounter — Paterno himself uses the term, as does ex-police head Gary Schultz — and did nothing more than go to his superiors a day later.

That’s in cold, hard testimony from Paterno himself. Has nothing to do with Freeh.

But they’ll pound Freeh out of willful misdirection.

Deadspin’s fine writer Dom Cosentino did an excellent breakdown of this recently.

Anyway, let’s hear it: How do you feel about reducing sanctions under certain circumstances?

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>> The Pirates and Jeff Locke and the beleaguered bottom half of the lineup salvaged one from the series with the Reds. Rob Biertempfel reports from Cincinnati.

Next up, as long as everyone’s already seeing red, is a visit to D.C. I’ll join the coverage down there on Wednesday for columns off the third and fourth games of the series.

Oh, and if you missed Joe Starkey’s column yesterday on the ‘angel’ who found Clint Hurdle, this is a second chance. Well worth it.

>> We talked Pirates, Steelers and more last night on WPXI-TV’s ‘The Final Word.’

>> The final piece from the Penguins’ development camp regards the difficulty of younger players in learning Dan Bylsma’s system. It’s by Josh Yohe. Highly recommended.

>> This is the week things get real in Latrobe. Alan Robinson breaks down camp.

>> Pay to play? Opinions vary at the big ACC fest. Jerry DiPaola reports from Charlotte.

>> The Riverhounds pull out a critical W over Wilmington over at Highmark. Chris Adamski reports.

Here are the goal highlights …

>> I’ll visit the TribLIVE Radio studios this morning at 11:30. Hope you can tune in!

Author: Dejan Kovacevic

Dejan Kovacevic, a lifelong Pittsburgher, is an award-winning sports columnist for Trib Total Media covering the Steelers, Penguins, Pirates, Pitt and, recently, his fourth Olympics in Sochi, Russia. He also appears on WPXI-TV's 'Subway Final Word’ and hosts a weekly show on TribLIVE Radio. For 2011, he was named one of the country's top four columnists by the AP Sports Editors. For 2012, he was named one of the country's top three columnists by the National Headliners. For 2013, he was named the state's top columnist by the Keystone Press Awards and top columnist in Western Pennsylvania by the Golden Quills.

Comments

  1. Nate83 says:

    It’s nice to see a picture of Jones celebrating a home run at the top of this blog. Him and Walker are the keys to the second half. If one or both hit like they have shown they are capable of in the second half it would really jump start this offense.

    There is no reason to believe both of them can’t hit .280 and provide power that is average to above average for their positions.

    Also nice to see Barmes and Sanchez show that there is more to the game of baseball then offensive numbers. Barmes made a number of nice plays this weekend in the field. Mercer over extended on a ball hit to him in Saturday’s game in the inning the Reds scored 4 runs and it cost them. His average seems to be leveling off after the hot start. Barmes may still play an important role on this team.

  2. Crash says:

    Reduce the sanctions my ass. They covered up child rape. If the NCAA reduces the penalty they are no better than Paterno and his cronies.

    DK: Hope you had a chance to read past the headline, Crash.

  3. Playoffs by 2012 says:

    Realized I hadn’t updated the standings in about 3 weeks.
    So here it is…..

    By the way, up to 71 players now.
    You all ROCK!!

    TOP SCORES IN JULY
    OZ ~ 800
    Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) ~ 625
    Jason81 ~ 500
    War Horse ~ 465
    Bill Born ~ 450

    CURRENT PARTICIPANT TOTALS
    Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) ~ 2525
    bman ~ 1955
    Dadtackular ~ 1700
    JRay3 ~ 1700
    theplanisworking ~ 1525
    Frankie ~ 1450
    Nate83 ~ 1375
    JUCOFan ~ 1300
    Pucknutz ~ 1200
    blazer ~ 1100
    Bill Born ~ 1080
    radio wave ~ 825
    stickyweb ~ 800
    KJX ~ 750
    fellocolonial ~ 700
    Jason81 ~ 650
    OZ ~ 650
    Ermine ~ 600
    Keith ~ 550
    RobertoForever ~ 490
    tdb1977 ~ 485
    War Horse ~ 465
    cherokee23 ~ 350
    EricBowser ~ 325
    JohninOshkosh ~ 310
    Chico ~ 300
    Vette60 (Randy in RVA) ~ 300
    TCB ~ 275
    Boise Bucco ~ 200
    Evan ~ 200
    Irish ~ 200
    BDHumbert ~ 175
    JoeyBats ~ 175
    Matt hoffman ~ 100
    PetroSteel ~ 100
    steelercrazy ~ 100
    Dom ~ 75
    Arriba Wilver ~ 50
    cmat0829 ~ 50
    Hal Smith ~ 50
    mlrgenuine ~ 50
    TJ ~ 50
    tmp444 ~ 25
    Joey Mellons ~ 0
    pants-n-at ~ 0
    TK ~ 0
    Ruffian706 ~ -40
    buggee ~ -50
    JaxBuc ~ -50
    Karen22 ~ -50
    Ben ~ -80
    absolute59 ~ -100
    Brian ~ -100
    Dcpinpgh ~ -100
    DemonDachshund ~ -100
    John in WM ~ -100
    Kevin S ~ -100
    pattonbb ~ -100
    Ghost ~ -150
    cosmo ~ -200
    Lad9 ~ -200
    Ryan76 ~ -200
    kr70 ~ -300
    stuart66 ~ -300
    Brandie ~ -400
    Steve J. Smith ~ -500
    JMB ~ -800
    JD ~ -875
    Jandy ~ -1175
    Kevin ~ -1435
    Bizrow ~ -4500

    ***The Most Points for the end of JULY will win:***
    (1) PITTSBURGH PIRATES BUMPER STICKER
    https://twitter.com/TheBuccoWindow/status/323996932466962432

    First Place at the end of the season will win:
    (1) BRAND NEW PITTSBURGH PIRATES FITTED NEW ERA 59FIFTY HAT
    https://twitter.com/TheBuccoWindow/status/323994233155485698

    Second Place at the end of the season will win:
    (1) BRAND NEW PITTSBURGH PIRATES EARTH DAY GIVEAWAY HAT
    https://twitter.com/TheBuccoWindow/status/323994373731794947

    Third Place at the end of the season will win:
    (1) PITTSBURGH PIRATES LICENSE PLATE FRAME
    https://twitter.com/TheBuccoWindow/status/323994796970627072

    Fourth Place at the end of the season will win:
    (1) PITTSBURGH STEELERS BUMPER STICKER
    https://twitter.com/TheBuccoWindow/status/323996576253087745

    Fifth Place at the end of the season will win:
    (1) PITTSBURGH PENGUINS BUMPER STICKER
    https://twitter.com/TheBuccoWindow/status/323996735837982720

  4. Matt says:

    “SASSANO: Did Mr. Curley get back to you at some point in time after that to advise you what actions were taken…

    J. PATERNO: No, no, I didn’t, I had other things to do”

    No commentary needed!

  5. Ghost says:

    Just read the John Harris story on how black representation in baseball is STILL on the decline. Hadn’t considered that the limit on college baseball scholarships might be a factor, but it makes sense. The biggest barrier probably remains the amount of money required to keep a kid competitive with all the other kids playing year-round baseball. The $1500~$2000/ per year estimate is LOW. Monthly dues, tournament fees, travel costs, bats ($100~$400 each), new cleats twice a year, multiple uniforms, practice wear, batting practice fees, batting lessons (pitching lessons if your kid pitches), new gloves, batting gloves, camps — it’s crazy. You learn to buy stuff in advance when you see it on sale, but that only helps a little.

    I’ve got two teenagers and I’ve spent $3000 on them for just this summer. I’m sure I’m forgetting some things but I quickly count over $7000 just for this year, to date. I wear old t-shirts, cut my own hair, never go out to the movies and otherwise live very cheaply. But if I cut corners with my kids’ baseball, they would not be as competitive. As long as they enjoy it, I pay up. But for a kid — black, white, whatever — who would like to play but doesn’t have the $$, forget about it. Money is a HUGE barrier to baseball in America.

  6. Ghost says:

    Haven’t had the guts to place a bet in a while, but I am in AWE whenever I see this running tally you keep. You are BOSS, Playoffs!

  7. Ghost says:

    Re: Barmes +many

  8. emtfr says:

    Why The CBS Chicago Cult of disinformation is irrelevant: Anyone can write a “blog” and cherry-pick words out of complete context to say what they want to say that “supports” their ignorant opinion. READ THE WHOLE INTERVIEW an all of the evidence. The real significance of that interview is that JVP said AD Curley never followed up with him, therefore it is in contention that Freeh’s press conference version and selective email “conclusions” that it was JVP who influenced any decision to report or not to report.
    These yahoos will also neglect to tell you that in the REAL trial cases (Prelim hearing page 213 Dauphin County, publicly available) and also in the Freeh report PAGE 84, these men including the atty they consulted recall reporting the incident!!!! Even the investigating Detective Sassano says in that case that the Department of Public Welfare has information about the report that WAS made. Freeh COVERED UP exculpatory evidence in this case. Shoots more and more holes in the whole “coverup” and “football” argument against the sanctions and the blaming of administrators, and shines the light on where it belongs: Failed STATE welfare systems in PA. They also conveniently ignore that the Grand Jury Judge has been relieved of his duties and the investigation into how this whole case was prosecuted is still ongoing by the Office of Attorney General. There WILL be more activity coming up soon LEGALLY that will rock these myths to the core. I would advise any and all to ignore the likes of liars like Dan Bernstein, Dom Cosentino, Dejan Kovacevic, and Tim Baffoe. They are officially known in more learned and educated circles as the CBS Sports Cult of Disinformation. Riding their lies to get page hits and spew hatred whe they COULd be reporting important information to help people learn how to prevent child sexual abuse and protect children!

    DK: Pretty clear we could use some popcorn around here today.

  9. emtfr says:

    It would be advisable for you to read the entire interview and also ALL of the case evidence. You will not get the correct information here.

  10. Ghost says:

    I know all sports are to be tolerated on this blog, but does pumping sewage count as a sport?

  11. Drew71 says:

    Waittaminnit…

    You cut your own hair?

    So that avatar is really you?

  12. theplanisworking says:

    DK, would you like your popcorn salted, unsalted, or karmelkorn??
    Unreal.
    Think I am going to need a shower after reading about this today.

  13. Drew71 says:

    Dejan. Although he is always happy to debate you, Thunder does not live in California.

  14. Brandie says:

    It is pretty hard for me as well Hippo. I met Joe Paterno. He was kind to me at a pretty low point in my life. He made a mistake and should have pursued this more. A pretty terrible lapse in judgement.

    Full disclosure: I am a PA mandated reporter. If a child or adult reports child abuse, as a mandated reporter I am duty bound to make a call to the state reporting agency so that information cash be funneled to the CYS agency for the corresponding county. If I do not do this, I risk jail time and fines, let alone leaving a child in possible danger.

    In the end, this is not about football, wins vacated, loss of scholarships, etc. It is about failure to act for those who could not defend themselves. That sickens me. The fallout to the innocent continues. Vacate all the wins you want, but those individuals that were abused, you can’t vacate what happened to them.

    This comes from one who lives in an area of PA where sexual abuse runs rampant. I have seen the effects of this sickness on kids and the adults they become. It is do profoundly sad that it brings tears to my eyes just thinking about it.

    Muppet out.

    DK: Well done, Brandie.

  15. JoeyBats says:

    Hoka Hey everyone!
    .
    Pirates win…Pirates win!!! ….LVII wins down, …and XXV to go.
    .
    Yes, GM Neal and Mgr. Clint ….82 wins DOES make a difference.
    .
    Beat Em’ Bucs !
    .
    .
    PS: Terriffic performance again by All-Star Jeff Locke….a year ago, it would have been unthinkable to put those words in the same sentence.

    Nice to avoid the sweep ….we have to hit better with runners on base the rest of this road trip! (it can’t get much worse — can it????)

  16. Drew71 says:

    Some people get it.

    Thanks, Muppet.

  17. Jandy says:

    What Ghostie said!

  18. theplanisworking says:

    Happy belated Birthday.
    I dont think I wished you one previously……….. memory fading.

    Oh, and good morning also. :)

  19. theplanisworking says:

    +’s to both of you.

  20. Jandy says:

    ++s too

  21. Jandy says:

    Thanks Hipposter!!! And a happy fackin Monday to you too :)

  22. theplanisworking says:

    Leave it DK to put columns out there that make us think……. not just the usual drivel.

    But thinking makes my head hurt, so I have to applaud very softly.

  23. Jandy says:

    lol. I feel for ya.
    But ya know, I’m so sick of the Paterno drivel. Let the subject freakin DIE already.

  24. theplanisworking says:

    But Jandy, the Paterno supporters cant have that.
    Like Don Quixote, they have to keep chasing windmills.

    Paterno is dead.
    Children were abused.
    Sandusky is in jail.

    I dont see what good re-hashing all this does.
    I do know, it feeds some egos.

  25. Jandy says:

    precisely!

  26. theplanisworking says:

    Per the Paterno/PennSt/Freeh stuff……………………

    As a Pitt alum, and fan, I have to preface my remarks carefully, lest I be dismissed by the faction of Penn State supporters who will dismiss my remarks summarily out-of-hand solely because of my status……………………

    I dont know who/what to believe, because the opposing sides have their own lawyers, and spin doctors. I do know, children were abused, one person is in jail, and others are going to trial. Joe lost his job, and is the case sometimes, he died shortly thereafter. Sanctions, statues removed, Franco spouting babble…………… just keeps feeding itself.

    What I do know, as I listed earlier in the blog, is that 3 things remain true to this day…..

    1) Children were abused
    2) Sandusky is in jail, and
    3) Paterno is dead.

    All the posturing, yelling, spin doctors cant undo those 3 things. All the sanctions in the world wont take those actions back. So I have a hard time understanding the grandstanding, when the kids involved have to try to piece back their lives. Hard to do that, when some people wont let things die, and always rehash the events for perpetuity.

    Reduce sanctions? Hmmmmm, thats a toughie.
    I would be in favor of reducing sanctions if, and when this settles down. By that I mean, when all involved have gone through the court system, i. e. Curley and Schultz, etc………………… when the fines are paid, lawsuits settled, etc. Now, if that means the sactions run their thru course, then so be it. I personally think that it isnt fair to reduce sanctions before this is settled. But thats just my opinion.

  27. theplanisworking says:

    As for the “lighter” fare in the blog today…………………

    Good win by the Bucs yesterday. Obviously, this team will go only as far as their pitching takes them. Fans have been waiting all year for the hitting to improve, but I just dont see that happening. It is what it is. Thats why upgrades are needed. Get a bat, and send the replaced player to the bench. McHenry, Barmes, Snider, Harrison, et al do not give hope in PH roles. Actually, those 4 should not be on ML rosters, maybe Barmes, but the other 3 are definitely AAAA material. Another arm wouldnt hurt either.

    Could the complexity of the Pens defensive scheme be the reason it appears to stink? The column by Yohe is an eye-opener for sure.

    Steeler camp? Man, what a mess that could be. Too many question marks. Hopefull, there are true battle for spots, which should result in the best players starting.

    On the fence about pay-to-play. Athletes get a full scholarship, and a small stipend for rent utilities. Lets put it this way, when I was in college, I was friends with Charles Smith, Jerome Lane, and others. I would have traded places with them in a heartbeat, if it meant my schooling was paid for. I would have found a way to get spending money.

    Always good to see the RiverPuppies win. My soccer watching is mostly limited to the World Cup, but with DK’s coverage of the sport locally, and the passion with which he does it, I am coming around to it. But Hippos dont kick soccer balls well, so………..

  28. Jandy says:

    Our Bucco’s “production” was provided by Barmes, Mercer, and Fort, later in the game.
    Just pointing out that sometimes, the expected bats go quiet, and the little guys come thru.

  29. John Lease says:

    Right. Because Sandusky wasn’t raping young boys all over the place.

    Go find Franco and talk to him, he’ll listen.

  30. Pucknutz says:

    Fortunately, as Drew says some people do get it.

  31. John Lease says:

    As an alum, why reduce the sanctions? I think upping the fine 600K for the salary that Spanier is STILL GETTING should be considered.

    They took the deal, and one year later isn’t the time to ‘reduce’.

    Maybe after another year? or two?

    Or, if you want to say that integrity is what you need, you go thru the whole thing, shut your mouth about it, and try integrity for a change.

  32. Jandy says:

    Dejan, thanks so much for the link to Ben Petrick’s story with Clint Hurdle. Starkey found a gem there.
    brought tears to my eyes.
    Anyone who hasn’t read it, should. And be more grateful.

  33. bman says:

    x3 – thanks for running this!!

  34. Thundercrack says:

    What is emtfr’s percentage?

  35. Jandy says:

    it doesn’t register on the scale at all…

  36. theplanisworking says:

    Do negative numbers count?

  37. I didn’t know DK wrote for CBS or he was in a cult.

    You learn something new every day.

    DK: Actually, the cult is so mysterious that it changed names from the beginning of the paragraph to the end. Shady cultsters.

  38. Jandy says:

    http://simlb.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/jason-grilli-cover2.jpg?w=600&h=809

    I was lucky enough to score one of these for my birthday :) :) :)

  39. Jandy says:

    nope

  40. Jandy says:

    ha! The wonders of technology ;)

  41. 21sthebest says:

    From the time my son was 12 Ghost through high school years, there were summer travel teams in the area that traveled all over the place – the Carolinas, Midwest, New York, etc. and at least a couple of weekends a month. I never really understood that since there was a lot of good baseball in the area so my son was always on a team that stayed in the area. I heard stories from parents that traveled all over the place and their schedules sounded ridiculous as well as the cost.

  42. Original Ether says:

    Penn State has done everything it can to get around the sanctions, from keeping the 2 best recruiters from Paterno’s staff (Johnson and Vanderlin), trying to schedule an end of season game against Hawaii, and now scheduling a game in Ireland. It’s still football first over there, which is what allowed the crimes to start in the first place.

    Penn State got a slap on the wrist, and it disgusting how somehow Penn State got painted as a victim in this also.

  43. theplanisworking says:

    So if Collapse 3 happens, both YOU and SI are to blame ! ;)

  44. theplanisworking says:

    Are the RiverPuppies a cult??

  45. Jandy says:

    No way are you spinning that BS on me, Hipposter! Do YOU work for CBS too? ;) :P :D

  46. Steve says:

    Agreed.

  47. theplanisworking says:

    Whats the frequency, Kenneth??

  48. Jandy says:

    lol

  49. Jandy says:

    I thought puppies were in litters ;)

  50. Very minor one in comparison to the CBS Sports Cult of Disinformation.

    Does that have anything to do with the Knights Templar or it is a secret society like anything about Area 51 and Roswell?

  51. Jim S. says:

    My wife and I are “travel sports” parents as well, Ghost. Baseball fees are crazy, for sure. Our little guy just finished 11U this summer. The club he plays for is not crazy expensive, and we are lucky to be in the Chicago area where he gets really great competition w/o needing to go far. We just did one out of state tournament this year.

    I’ll tell you, though, soccer is the crazy expensive sport here. Unlike baseball, there is very little parent coaching of travel soccer in the Chicago area. The coaches are professional, full-time employees. So, it gets very expensive, very quick. We would not have continued for so many years if we could not see early on that our daughter had a lot of passion and the talent to be a D1 player. I just could not have justified the time commitment and expense. So, it paid off well for us. But, a lot of parents just pay the fees and don’t think twice. I guess if you have that much extra money, you can do what you want with it.

  52. Patrick(RI) says:

    Happened to catch a bit of Fareed Zakaria’s GPS show yesterday which discussed a proposed “boycott of College Football (big time conferences) on the grounds that they are creating 300 lb monsters for the glory of the old school. NCAA CBS teams are apparently sort of “feed lots”(my phrase) for the NFL. The talking head said parents should be ashamed for letting this be the end-point of their kids.

    I was wondering how the lunatics feel about the shortening of lives for football (the talking head’s seemingly well supported claim is the result of chemical, food and manic training which produces linemen for the old school and the NFL), given the outrage which accompanies, say, Ryan Braun’s alleged PED use, and the scorn heaped on ARod?

    I recall an interview of Lyle Alzado, who died young and knew it was coming from his treatment of his body to produce a pro career, wherein he wished he had not defiled his body. That was 15-20 years ago. And the big time football feed lots are bigger than ever!

  53. Your name is Harry, isn’t it?

    (from the movie Dumb and Dumber. No similarities intended)

  54. Jim S. says:

    And, here, I was thinking Sandusky was at least partly to blame. Just goes to show we must not have been paying attention.

  55. Drew71 says:

    Everybody hold onto your socks. I’m about to suggest something shocking.

    I think Dejan is correct!

    We DO need popcorn.

    Then the rest of us can watch the extremists on both sides of this mess fight it out while we stuff our pie holes.

    Extra butter, please.

    And somebody go check Dejan’s pulse.

  56. Thanks for the W yesterday, Jim.

    Did you cross over to KY?

  57. theplanisworking says:

    I thought Area 51 was the Fountain, with all its pretty lights……..

  58. Jim S. says:

    Thanks for the perspective, Brandie. Well said.

  59. tdb1977 says:

    I’m not a fan of popcorn…can I just get some fruit to eat instead?

    Hope that doesnt make me un-American for saying that.

  60. theplanisworking says:

    No salt for me.
    But I do a-like me some butter.

    Maybe some sweet tea, too.

  61. chethejet says:

    Dejan, I say no reduction for two reasons, one is the cult/truthers will never give it up and second, PSU has to prove it has changed in its systematic failures as a University. Not reporting numerous crimes away from the unknown child abuse and not complying with the Cleary Act at any level is indicative of the total disregard of transparency. In addition, the running off of Vicky Tripony to appease Paterno is further indication of the total lack of institutional control. Penn State needs to demonstrate that they can handle the basic requirements of not only having a clean program, but a University not steeped with the corruptive influences of the Paterno crowd, the cozy second mile daisy chain and in house administrators who do things right for the right reasons. Do you truthers ever consider just how many inter relationships were all positioned by Paterno and his cronies to protect the football program of any outside review. Do you really think Sandusky was in the dark over second mile payments to the football program and had so much dirt on Paterno that he infact couldn’t make any moves to remove him from the campus. They never thought Sandusky issue would involve the football program and the University. Like all crooks, they got it wrong.

  62. Jandy says:

    We’ll have to tar and feather you ;)

  63. theplanisworking says:

    Harry the Hippo.
    Has a catchy ring to it.

    But its not for me.

    Off to watch CBS now…………………. ;)

  64. Nate83 says:

    Paterno stuff hurts my head. Popcorn is like Tylonal for me and helps with that so I will take a huge tub of movie popcorn to make it through the blog today.

  65. Lad9 says:

    Thank you Playoffs. Can’t tell you how much I enjoy this – even though I am not very good at it!

  66. Nate83 says:

    I just assumed you were not American.

  67. Drew71 says:

    So it’s settled.

    Popcorn Bar with varied choices.

    And a nice fruit cup for our international friends.

  68. kr70 says:

    Jandy +1, Dejan +1, #13 +100

  69. Drew71 says:

    There’s a soccer joke in there somewhere.

    But we’re not allowed.

    So forget I said that.

  70. Jim S. says:

    As promised, I was at the game yesterday in GABP in Cincy with 2 of my kids. Also, as promised, we put a halt to that annoying 3-game losing streak. It was not pretty, but it was a victory. 3 close games this weekend, and we came out on the losing end twice. But, that is how it is with close games. You don’t win them all. Yesterday was key!

    * I thought Locke was going to fall apart in the 5th, but he kept it together. Gutty performance.

    * I thought Melancon was going to fall apart in the 8th, but he kept it together well enough to keep the lead. I was so thankful for that. There is nothing worse than a 4.5 hour drive home after blowing a 3-1 lead in the 8th and being swept on the road.

    * My hat is off to the courteous Reds fans. My kids and I always try to be respectful in other parks – kind of like being guests in someone else’s home. I find that if you are courteous to the home crowd, they will generally be courteous to you. That was the case yesterday. We met a lot of good people, and had a very good time. There were a good number of Pirates’ on hand, and I thought they all represented our city well. They cheered loudly for the Bucs, of course, but were classy all day. I thought the Reds crowd acted toward the Bucs fans about the way Bucs fans usually act toward visiting fans.

    * Here in Chicago, it never fails that when we go to see the Bucs vs. Cubs we always take some not so friendly fire from the locals. I can see giving a hard time to people who are inviting it, but Chicago crowds lean more toward east coast crowds where they feel the need to start stuff for no reason. Not all Cubs fans are like that, of course – but enough that it can make a pleasant afternoon at the ball park needlessly unpleasant.

    * I rate Great American Ball Park pretty highly on the scale of the new parks. It is quaint, and distinctive. It doesn’t beat PNC, but I liked it a whole lot more than Yankee Stadium that I visited a few weeks ago.

    Go Bucs!

  71. 21sthebest says:

    Patrick,

    Alzado’s steroid and growth hormone use has never been able to be clinically linked to his brain tumor.

  72. Lad9 says:

    Thank you Brandie. You really do rock!

  73. Lad9 says:

    Same. Awesome story and makes me like CH all the more.

  74. JohninOshkosh says:

    I thought Batman defeated the CBS Cult of Disinformation in the third Batman film.

    DK: The Joel Schumacher disaster or the recent one filmed in Pittsburgh. I’m perfectly fine with blaming Schumacher for everything either way.

  75. NMR says:

    Glad to hear people like you speak up, Brandie.

  76. Jandy says:

    Yes, she does! Hi Rad Lad, how are you this Monday morning?

  77. Patrick(ri) says:

    Good point, but what I meant to convey was the idea that young men are making choices to “enhance” their bodies to get into a football factories, which may as well be food lots, bulking people up to way past abnormal weights. The science the guy cited was very impressive (I was surfing back & forth from the Pirate game, so i cannot be more specific). His point seemed at least as moral as scientific — hence his shaming of parents who encourage this.

  78. You may yet receive that bold reaming you’re pushing for.

  79. Parrothead01 says:

    What happened to the JAL links? Is he on vacation?

  80. Lad9 says:

    Pretty good Jandy. Was the birthday weekend as special as it sounded? I hope so! :)

  81. JohninOshkosh says:

    Yes. Don’t know how long, though.

  82. JohninOshkosh says:

    It does create a void when he’s not here. Messes with my morning routine. Usually start the work day by listening to his song and reading the links.

  83. Drew71 says:

    Good job, Jim, on the win.

    The park may be fine (I’ve only seen it on TV), but isn’t it turned the wrong way, so the open end doesn’t offer a view of the city, but rather of (~gasp, choke~) Kentucky?

    Doesn’t sound so Lucky to me. At least for the good folks of Cincinnati.

  84. NMR says:

    Not sure how O’Brien wanting the sanctions lifted shows a lack of integrity. He didn’t earn the sanctions, and by all accounts has shown through his career that he can ethically conduct football related business.

    As a fellow alum, I believe wanting the sanctions lifted shows a lack of contrition, and like you, have no idea why anybody even cares at this point.

    Instead of continually bringing up the issue and complaining about how much damage the sanctions have caused, how bout they realize that they still have a good team, they are still getting good recruits, and they are still getting good crowds.

    The most damage being done right now is by themselves when they continually bring this up.

    DK: Fair point, NMR. I’ve been wondering for a while how much of this is O’Brien just trying to meet HIS OWN people halfway on this, especially since the composition of the Board of Trustees continually changes to the advantage of the Paterno side.

  85. Drew71 says:

    Nah. I think I put Dejan into what the medical profession refers to as a Manitoba Coma by agreeing with him.

    But don’t worry. MC Syndrome doesn’t last long. It’s only lingering symptoms are distaste for certain sports and fear of Thunder storms.

  86. Playoffs by 2012 says:

    Thank you all for the kind words.
    It is a labor of love, and I’m glad you all enjoy it.

  87. That’s northern KY. Doesn’t count.

  88. Drew71 says:

    I see. Yankee Kentuckians.

  89. NMR says:

    Same here.

  90. NMR says:

    Great to see the Pirates acquire the 1B help they desperately needed.

    Welcome to Pittsburgh, Garrett Jones.

  91. Jim S. says:

    If you stand at the RF concourse and look toward homeplate, you can see the Great American Insurance building right behind it. So, the city is behind homeplate, mostly, and that part of the stadium is closed. So, no view to be had there.

    There really is no open end to the stadium like PNC because in CF they have a big boat attached that was closed yesterday due to a private party. It looked fun, though, and I’ll bet it is a great view of the field from up there.

    From the OF concourse, you can see out to the Ohio River, and it is actually quite nice. Plenty of nice homes across the river in one section. Cincinnati resembles Pittsburgh in some ways. It is not flat like most of the rest of Ohio. Nice views up and down the river.

  92. 21sthebest says:

    We were lucky in our north Pittsburgh suburb. Baseball fees were reasonable. The cost of a new bat every year was ridiculous though!

  93. Walter says:

    Sanctions can not be reduced. They have to tough it out. Sorry. No time off for good behavior here.

  94. Jim S. says:

    2 bombs in 3 days, plus a sweet grab of the awful throw to 1b from Fort to save a run, maybe 2 in the 5th.

  95. NMR says:

    Wonder how many more columns Dejan can milk out of the Paterno whackos?

  96. 21sthebest says:

    They went 4 for 9 which was particularly sweet after listening to the morning host yesterday on The Fan and some callers rail against that part of the lineup.

  97. Jandy says:

    YES! it was…thanks for asking :)

  98. Jandy says:

    Let me tell you, it was fun to watch.

  99. Milo Hamilton says:

    There are only so many ways to describe the beauty of a corner kick.

  100. JohninOshkosh says:

    “Let the dead bury the dead, Mr. Finch.”

  101. Jandy says:

    Would that be the corner of the rear or the corner of the head?

  102. Jandy says:

    + many

  103. Nate83 says:

    Hopefully none. It is not a story that interest me in the least. It may have something to do with me not being from that area but I generally do not like stories like this.

    I hope some good comes out of it like others that suffered the same horrible crime having the courage to come forward and accuse the person that victimized them. Other then that this stuff just becomes a downer. Too many lives affected in a negative way.

  104. He fell on his knife.

  105. NMR says:

    Please don’t take this as a slight, Ghost/Jim, but the business of amateur baseball is getting uglier by the year.

    Promoters are swindling parents out of money by assembling travel/showcase leagues under the premise that it will get their kids a leg up on the competition.

    The dirty little secret of the business is that if you have to pay for the exposure, your kid probably isn’t good enough. And if he is, you probably didn’t need to pay anyone to have him discovered.

    Not only are these leagues robbing families of their time and money, they’re also watering down the local leagues creating a cycle that only feeds itself. They start by convincing the really good players that they NEED to play in these leagues, except that they can’t field teams with only those kids so they convince the players a step lower that THEY need these leagues, too.

    Once they rob the talented players from local leagues they can then turn around and say “look how much better the competition is on this side of the fence” and everyone buys into it.

  106. Patrick(ri) says:

    You can get a transcript by searching “GPS Faeed Zakaria transcripts.” It turns out it was mostly about neurolgical damage, and the bulking up of 140 lbs above the normal fit weight was an extra point. The largest point was a call for elite colleges to start the ball rolling by getting out of the football business.

    IiMHO, “GPS” is the best thing on tz.

  107. Patrick(ri) says:

    Tv, of course

  108. NMR says:

    .926 OPS with just a 16% K-rate for the month of July.

  109. NMR says:

    When your sources are a nobody jounalist trying to make a name for himself by preying on the dying gasps of Paterno supporters and Deadspin – freaking Deadspin – you’ve officially run out of material.

    Time to move on.

    DK: I’ll respect your opinion on the latter, NMR, but the sole source material for this were 1. Paterno’s actual testimony, which no one is disputing is real and 2. O’Brien’s conference call last Friday. That’s it.

  110. Right.

    If you can’t see backer fields, it ain’t really Kentucky.

    It’s more Ohio or Indiana.

    And that skyline in Cincy is nothing special. I’ve seen it a million times coming down over the hill on 71/75.

    It’s no Pittsburgh skyline, even if there is a chili named after it.

  111. SeanAY says:

    Just for that, I’m going to log on to Deadspin from 10 different computers today.

  112. SeanAY says:

    While I’m at it, I’ll send you this link:

    http://archive.org/details/UltravioletHippopotamus2013-04-27

    SBD pull. Awesome funky band from Grand Rapids. One day, I’ll be able to say I saw them when.

  113. Jim S. says:

    Chili named after it. Nicely played, Lucky!

  114. Jim S. says:

    Lucky is right about N KY. That’s pretty much Ohio, the same way N IN near the IL border is more Chicago than Indiana.

  115. Dom says:

    I guess if push came to shove, I would have to say that the sanctions should remain at Penn State. I know what happened was not O’Brian’s fault. It’s not his players fault. It’s not the fans fault. However, there is a bigger picture here at stake. The victims have to see that justice is served for their injustice.

    On a related topic, I think we have all had enough with Franco and his clique. It is really disturbing how far that pro-paternos will with their propaganda.

    I don’t want to bring up politics or anything close to that but what these people do remind of one of those crazy conspiracy theories people, who must have an awful lot of time on their hands, campaign about online.

    Someone has to be willfully ignorant if they read that interview from Dom Cosentino and still felt that Paterno was an innocent bystander. In that interview, he admitted that he wasn’t in contact with the police till TEN years later. Can they not grasp the notion that he could have contacted the police himself at any point in the past ten years leading up to that point? Can they not grasp the notion that Paterno didn’t want action to be taken as it would have brought a dark cloud on the university?

  116. 21sthebest says:

    “travel/showcase leagues under the premise that it will get their kids a leg up on the competition.”

    They’re so overrated from that standpoint it isn’t funny. First thing a college coach looks at when they’re serious about a kid? SATs. And college coaches scout high school games and summer leagues regardless of where they are or the so called quality of the league.

    The leagues you’re referring to are more and more kids that have families that can afford them and college coaches know that. Tons of good baseball players at the local/township level.

  117. JohninOshkosh says:

    Sean, Do you do the broadcasts for Western Michigan football, as well ? Just wondering ’cause I travel throughout Michigan a lot, sometimes on Saturdays. :)

  118. Brandie says:

    I will say this one last time….this is not about football. This is about what a sick individual was allowed to do to children for years. He is rotting in jail for the rest of his life and I, for one, am glad. Let that mess be sorted out between him and God!

    I just am having a hard time with rehashing this whole thing. Should the victims have never come forward in the first place and we continue to have a nasty predator in our midst? Penn State would still have the wins and the scholarships, but at what cost? As far as Coach O’Brien is concerned, he has been nothing but class and has handled the situation with aplomb. I just wish I could say the same for many on both sides of the issue.

    I take my popcorn with butter and extra perspective, thank you.

  119. Milo Hamilton says:

    And the other one is about to come off the disabled list. Everyone’s talking about acquiring a righthanded bat. It’s their lefty hitters (other than Pedro) that have been the problem.

  120. SeanAY says:

    No football for me, unfortunately. That features the excellent Robin Hook, who does conference men’s hoops as well. I just get to go to the non-conference road outposts :(

  121. Jim S. says:

    Agreed. I love what CH is doing in leading this team this year. But, regardless, he seems like a heck of a guy.

  122. pattonbb says:

    The NCAA is not going to reduce any sanctions handed down to Penn State.

    O’Brien seems like a good guy, and a heck of a coach, but if he thinks they’re going to show any pity for one the worst scandals in NCAA history, he’s high. Take your punishment. Penn State will bounce back, just not before their probation expires.

    On to a real newsworthy story…..There’s no way that goofball Thom Brennaman was talking about Jeff Locke when he was heard whispering “This guy sucks”. I’m not sure who he was talking about….maybe the ump, maybe Red’s catcher Corky Miller, who knows….but it wasn’t Locke.

    But, I still hate the Reds.

  123. Stuart says:

    Reporting Child Abuse, Call 800-932-0313

    Discussions on this issue can run off the tracks pretty quick.

    Like Brandie I was, and still am, a “required reporter” of child abuse. In several of my past positions I was the boss. But none of my employees was required to report abuse to me, their reporting had to be FIRST to the child abuse hotline.

    If Joe knew the law he would have called the childline first, then reported to his superior. Of course, Penn State like many other organizations would prefer to handle things “in house”, but that’s not what the law says.

    I have unfortunately had to use the childline several times in my working career. The calls were all (eventually) investigated by the County Children and Youth Services agency (formerly called Child Welfare). But, you don’t call the local agency direct, you call the childline in Harrisburg. They record the details and then refer the incident to the local agency for investigation. Once you make the call, your responsibility ends, and you cannot expect to get any feedback from the childline or CYS. The local agency is required to report to the Harrisburg office with a report, including actions taken.

    here is a link to the website for reporting child abuse in Pennsylvania:

    http://www.dpw.state.pa.us/provider/childwelfareservices/childlineandabuseregistry/

    The key to this whole thing is to have an independent investigation BY SOMEONE OUTSIDE THE INSTITUTION. This prevents cover-ups.

    BTW, you’ll note that the childline is staffed on a 24 hour basis (including weekends).

    Stuart

  124. Jim S. says:

    + a million.

  125. Jim S. says:

    I’ve been down on McKenry, but that was a great at bat to start the rally. He must have seen about 10 pitches. I’ve seen him have similar long at bats in the past, where he eventually gets hold of a ball. Maybe it is a sign of his bat getting hot, which it has been known to do. Don’t get me wrong, I’d still take Sanchez over him in a heartbeat. But, I have to give credit where it is due, and yesterday he had the big hit to start the rally.

    Now, about that throw to 1b on the 5th inning bunt by Bailey … yikes, that was awful! GIJ saved Fort there.

  126. Lad9 says:

    + a lot. Will continue to munch on the popcorn and stay silent on this topic Nothing to add that has not been repeated ad nauseum.

  127. Brandie says:

    Thank you for the Starkey piece on Ben Patrick. Left me in tears and humbled.

  128. Brandie says:

    Thank you Stuart.

  129. Jim S. says:

    I did not crossover to KY, Lucky. Our oldest is heading to CA today for a soccer camp, so I needed to get back home right after the game. And Saturday night, we stayed in Indiana.

  130. Brandie says:

    Rad Lad! :-) Good to hear from you.. You all have been awesome!

  131. Jandy says:

    Agree 100% Jim. But like you, I have to give credit where credit is due.

  132. Jandy says:

    You and me both, girl!

  133. (I’m not sure if this went through – sorry for the multiple posts if it did – )

    What we MUST learn from Jerry Sandusky is to never again say “there is no way he/she would EVER…[fill in the blanks]“.

    That is what pedophiles DEPEND upon – being above reproach – elevated to such a stature that no one would EVER question their actions/behaviors/credibility.

    This is how Jerry Sandusky got away with his actions for so long – throughout his tenure as founder of The Second Mile and status as an assistant coach at Penn State – behaviors that would have been cause for alarm in any other situation (showering with boys, rough-housing, horseplay with children) was just “Jerry being Jerry” – because “there is no way Jerry Sandusky would ever be molesting young boys…”

    The same thing applies here as people declare “there is no way Joe Paterno would have [fill in the blank] – protected a football program/protected …a pedophile/turned a blind eye to child sex abuse/backed away/had other things to do…”

    What this case must teach us is to ALWAYS have a questioning attitude and to NEVER put one on such a pedastal as to not examine more closely something that is out of the ordinary, regardless of how many years they’ve coached, how many games they’ve won, how many children they’ve helped or how many people they’ve influenced.

    This is not about Joe Paterno – but rather about a culture that allows predators to hurt our children – a culture where we DO elevate coaches/celebrities/teachers/priests/boy scout leaders/grandfathers (in my case) to an unquestioned position of authority where we do NOT question the motives behind their actions. This is the culture we MUST change. Never again can we place ANYONE, not Jerry Sandusky, not our priests, not our boy scout leaders, not our teachers, not my grandfather and not Joe Paterno in such a status as to not question their motives.

    1:4 girls and 1:6 boys are sexually abused by the time they are 18; 90% by someone they know; 68% by family members.

    Thank you,

    Roxine Behrens
    Survivor/Advocate
    Founder/President Tree-Climbers.org

  134. Jim S. says:

    Correct about the bat costs, 21. A few weeks ago, on our way to MI for our one away trip of the year, we stopped and took the boys on a tour of the Hoosier Wood Bat Company. They are a pretty small outfit that supplies mostly high school, some small college and some international clients. They have a few MLB clients, but not many. Anyway, the guy who owns the company is an ex-Yankees scout, and he railed away at metal bats. He called them recycled Mountain Dew cans. He was very entertaining.

    I think we may go back to the day at some point fairly soon where bats are wood again at lower levels. Much cheaper.

  135. Brandie says:

    Welcome Roxine. Well stated.

  136. Brandie says:

    And DK…Where’s my popcorn?

  137. Jandy says:

    ***ATTENTION***
    Newcomers and lurkers. We want to chat with you. If you’d take a few seconds to post your hometown, we’ll add it to the list of Dejan’s Lunatics’ Asylum. No membership fees!
    Don’t be shy!

  138. NMR says:

    Spot on.

    When I have this conversation I always try to make it clear that I’m not criticizing the parents themselves. They’re only doing what they’ve been led to believe is best for their child.

    But unfortunately it’s usually only in hindsight that they realize they’ve wasted thousands of dollars.

  139. Brandie says:

    Good morning, Revvy.

  140. NMR says:

    Ha, I have no problem with Deadspin. They bring the laughs.

    But they are to journalism what EDM is to music.

  141. Brandie says:

    Thank you Jandy, our resident Welcome Wagon/Cruise Director.

  142. NMR says:

    Quit being so logical, Brandie.

    Your ruining a perfectly good inflamatory topic.

  143. Jim S. says:

    I agree with you about those big-time showcase events, NMR. I was trying to make the case earlier that we are not headed down that road in our family or our club. The only reason we travel at all is to give the kids the experience of being away and bonding as a team. We are fortunate to be able to have enough competition with 8 million people in the Chicago area that we don’t need to go far for great competition. Our yearly fee is less than $1,000. Of course, personal expenses for gas to go to games + equipment is extra.

    I have read and heard about some of these showcase events, where they pay so-called superstar pitchers to fly in every weekend to play. Totally ridiculous, and that sounds extremely misguided to me. I’m sure some kids and parents keep those things in the right perspective, so I don’t want to paint with a broad brush and say they are all bad experiences. But, there is some sleight of hand going on at a lot of them, for sure.

    But, as for the competition level of Travel vs. Little League, there is no comparison in our area. My son was bored by age 9 of playing in games where kids would be picking daisies in the OF or someone who never played before was on his team. Those local leagues definitely have their place for the recreation player. And I know the competition can get pretty good as the kids get older. But, Travel, or Club if you want to call it that, has been a better experience, by far.

  144. 21sthebest says:

    NMR, I would say that almost all parents don’t realize until their son is a senior in high school, that the most scholarships a D1 can offer is 11.7 for the entire team, and those are almost always split up.

  145. Brandie says:

    Thank you, Jimster.

  146. Vinny Giardina says:

    “There WILL be more activity coming up soon LEGALLY that will rock these myths to the core.”

    A classic example of conspiracy theory logic. Just like we’ll find out the truth about JFK and the Moon Landings and 9/11. Still waiting on the “truth” about those also.

  147. Jim S. says:

    I’m wondering if it is a mixed need, Milo. A better lefty hitting option in RF, with Snider struggling, and a better righty hitting option at the super-sub spot (Inge)?

  148. Brandie says:

    A lot of children of color also grow up in single parent households due to the destruction of the family unit. When it takes two to four incomes to keep body and soul together in many cases, this certainly hinders the chances of recruiting children of color into the sport.

  149. NMR says:

    Absolutely.

    Or that DIII schools cannot offer athletic money, period.

  150. NuseUSMC says:

    Woooooooow. I think I am dumber for having read that response. Hey emtfr if your so sure about that crazy your talking put your real name to it skippy. Cause if you really believe it then back it.

  151. Jim S. says:

    Correct. Same with pretty much every sport, except basketball and football at D1.

  152. Brandie says:

    Pardon me, National Mart Of Records.

    Not only am I an alum, but my husband works in the PSU Housing and Food Service department (that is how we met). I Aldo have a friend whose husband works in the Sports and Information department. I have seen this from multiple sides. Next time I will remember to be illogical and inflammatory.

  153. 21sthebest says:

    Correct on D3 but it’s not difficult to get money in the guise of an academic scholarship as long as grades are met annually.

  154. kr70 says:

    neighbor just got a job at Western Michigan

  155. NMR says:

    It’s not the big time showcases that I have the biggest problem with, Jim.

    Those national showcases are ones where the talent level is legit enough to be free. Why? Because scouts actually WANT to be there.

    The showcases that are absolute scams are the local ones where a promoter rounds up all the area DIII college coaches and possibly a couple professional scouts for show while CHARGING each kid over a hundred bucks to come take glorified BP and infield/outfield. Complete waste of time and money.

  156. Nate83 says:

    Roxine

    Thanks for posting. If those numbers at the bottom are correct that is very sad. I didn’t realize it was so common. What is wrong with people?

  157. NMR says:

    Yup.

    We could get into the discussion of how small DIII schools are using their athletic departments as tuition generators, but thats a whole ‘nother seedy can-o-worms.

  158. Brandie says:

    Sick is sick!

  159. Nate83 says:

    I went to your website. It’s nice to see things like that. I’m sure it has helped hundreds if not thousand ofp people but even if it just helped one person realize they can be strong and accomplish anything it is well worth it. Nobody should live a life of silence and be made to felt inferior by another person.

  160. Milo Hamilton says:

    I always get a kick out of the “lurkers” part.

  161. Brandie says:

    I started out as a lurker.

  162. 21sthebest says:

    “there is no comparison in our area. My son was bored by age 9 of playing in games where kids would be picking daisies in the OF or someone who never played before was on his team. Those local leagues definitely have their place for the recreation player.”

    I guess we were fortunate in our area. The local leagues were of excellent quality. Still are.

  163. Bizrow says:

    + many

  164. 21sthebest says:

    Right. The West Penn Showcase or the showcase down at the Beast of the East in Wheeling. Some college coaches told us they hate those things and they’re dangerous, especially for pitchers.

  165. Jim S. says:

    As we found during our daughter’s soccer recruitment, schools can mix academic and athletic aid for recruits. Private schools, in particular, are pretty adept at competing with big public universities for athletes that way.

    So, for instance, she was looking at a few Catholic schools that cost in the $50k per year range. Those schools could spread their athletic scholarships thinner by adding 25% – 30% academic if she met certain grade qualifications. So, they might be 50% athletic + 30% academic for good students. When we looked at Big Ten schools, in comparison, they often had more red tape to go through to get academic aid approved, so they might have to offer a higher % on the athletic side. That would use up their scholarships quicker. But, those public schools typical cost less. There were a million factors to sift through.

    It was a fun process – and I use that word a bit sarcastically. Some of it really was enjoyable. But, some of it … not so much.

  166. CeeHowUR says:

    Sanctions should not have been implemented until everyone was given due process and the NCAA could have conducted their own investigation. The NCAA wasn’t capable of doing the investigation itself, but they wanted to show they were doing something, so they said they would accept the Freeh report when it was ready(and hurry up about it!). After Freeh and his team supposedly reviewed over 3.5 million pieces of email correspondance and issued a report without a statement from any of the principle players, the PSU BOT and adminstrators allowed the report to be released without reviewing it in order to provide the appearance of transparancy. And then they signed off on the sanctions since they were worried about the death penalty.

    I’m tired of posters trying to insinuate that the PSU supporters are more concerned with the football team rather than child abuse. If you comment on a sports website, football the comments are going to relate towrds football and the athletic department. If you are truly interested in the child abuse angle, you would be on a different website that posts on that aspect of the topic. There’s plenty of universities where football takes precedence over everything, including academics. But PSU was never one of them. I think it shows a lack of professionalism by DK to use the term Paterno Wackos to reference anyone that supports PSU and the search for the truth and to place any blame accordingly. Most people just want a complete investigation and due process for anyone charged. Those that don’t are just happy to see PSU knocked off their pedestal. There are plenty of other people and organizations that are more culpable in this besides anyone affiliated with PSU. If you’ve been keeping up with news reports rather than message boards you are already aware of most of them. Why are people more concerned about Paterno than why Sandusky was approved to adopt more children, even after the 1998 investigation? Why didn’t the AG arrest Sandusky when the first victim came forward instead of waiting for more victims? Why was Sandusky cleared in 1998? Why didn’t Second Mile do anything about Sandusky when they were first contacted? Why did Victim number 2 continue to associate with him for 10 years after the shower incident and invited him to his wedding? Why did McQueary particpate in charitable outings with Sandusky after the shower incident? All of these questions create reasonable doubt in a jury’s mind regarding what was said, and how they acted afterwards.

    I’m sure we’ll see another column about all of this before the end of summer so DK can try to sell some more papers or get his page hits up. Rather than making light of the whole situation and eating popcorn, perhaps someone can actually investigate the overall child abuse situation in PA and propose their own solutions that might prevent something like this from happening again.

  167. Jandy says:

    so did I! ;)

  168. Jim S. says:

    We have not gotten to the age of baseball recruitment yet, and I have no way of knowing if my son would even be good enough. But, that doesn’t sound good as you describe it.

    For soccer, the coach at our club was unbelievably good at teaching the girls how to get in touch with schools in advance of tournaments and make sure they were there to see them. It is a process, and very few kids know how to work it. We were lucky to have a blueprint, and it worked to a tee for our daughter.

  169. Brandie says:

    Jandy,

    Hope your birthday was a blast.

  170. Same to ‘ya, B-girl.

  171. Jim S. says:

    That’s great, 21. If a kid is a good baseball player, he can still get seen in HS games in our area. We know of kids who did not run all over the country to showcase events who still got offers. But, our local HS also has close to 5,000 kids. So, that is an advantage for being seen. It is also tough to make varsity before senior year. Double-edged sword, I guess.

  172. Thundercrack says:

    Maybe Brennaman was looking in the mirror when he was whispering

  173. Milo Hamilton says:

    Me too. For years. Never once posted at the other place but read it religiously every day. I know, should have kept it that way.

  174. Jandy says:

    Oh it was :)
    Got my own copy of Cheese on SI.
    Black Diamond earrings.
    I’m a happy camper :)

  175. 21sthebest says:

    What don’t you think sounds good Jim? We enjoyed the process but we kept it simple. You mean the showcases?

  176. Jandy says:

    I was warned when it came to baseball here. I didn’t heed the warnings. lol
    Now I’m converting hubby, but he’ll never do blogs. He enjoys watching with me, tho.

  177. Brandie says:

    Oh Milo, nonsense. I enjoy reading your posts.

  178. Jandy says:

    Maybe he means he shouldn’t have gotten sucked in…you know…like us…lol

    I totally enjoy your posts, too, Milo :)

  179. Jim S. says:

    ++++

  180. Brandie says:

    My Road…From Lurker to Muppet. I feel like a blog legend.

  181. Jandy says:

    You *ARE* a blog legend ;)

  182. Brandie says:

    He just oozes class and refinement, like a slug oozes slime.

  183. Brandie says:

    I hope all is peaceful for you, Revvy.

  184. Brandie says:

    Fest in 2 weeks…A Bear’s Picnic. Going to see DSO!

  185. Milo Hamilton says:

    Happy belated birthday. Sounds like it was a good one.

  186. Jandy says:

    Oh yeah, Milo, it was…the earrings were just the icing on the cake ;)
    Thanks for the wishes :)

  187. Always. I work for the state.

    You, also.

  188. JohninOshkosh says:

    Same with me! Did not post until Dejan moved. Read the old blogs everyday for years. Except when it moved behind the paywall.

  189. Brandie says:

    Only when I get a ballad written about me by Drew! :-)

  190. Jandy says:

    Osh Kosh is stuck too ;)

  191. Jandy says:

    Oh…Drew??? let’s get to it, friend ;)

  192. Jim S. says:

    I agree, Cee How, that there were obviously more to blame in this than just those at PSU. But, don’t you think a big part of why Sandusky got away with this for so long was his apparently spotless reputation at PSU? And PSU’s spotless reputation as well? If PSU had followed up on any of the many red flags with Sandusky, maybe he could have been stopped much sooner.

    I am in no way giving a pass to the charity or others in position of authority who should have seen the signs.

  193. Brandie says:

    Good win for our Buccos. McKenry for the win…Did not think I would ever type or utter that phrase in any way. Let’s hope this is the start of something good.

  194. Bizrow says:

    I can’t believe you just turned 39 ;-)

  195. Brandie says:

    I will also accept a haiku!

  196. Jandy says:

    Biz, my friend, I <3 you! :*

  197. Jandy says:

    we can hope!

  198. Brandie says:

    Good one. Clever and classy!

  199. Brandie says:

    Thanks, Revvy. :-) Do you mind that I call you Revvy?

  200. Add 15 to it.

    And I’ll be waiting for a solid ::thwap::

  201. Jim S. says:

    Yeah, I should clarify. What I didn’t think sounded good was some things I have read and heard about the showcase events. When you say they are often bad, especially for pitchers, it makes them sound like meat markets. There are often people looking to take advantage for a quick buck.

    But, I am also quite sure there are great examples of events like that being held and done properly with the players and colleges both benefiting.

    I think, as a parent, you probably just have to be careful and try to do as much research as possible.

  202. Jandy says:

    hahahaa! +MANY

  203. Jim S. says:

    Thanks, Drew. Unfortunately, the box score insists on giving the win to Locke. Whatever! We know the real truth.

  204. Brandie says:

    More thwappin’ on the Family Blog.

  205. NMR says:

    I believe Neil will hit, if healthy.

    But with the way Barmes has been playing, if Neil starts against lefties it will only be because Hurdle doesn’t want to hurt his feelings, not because Hurdle wants to field the best team.

  206. Jim S. says:

    I’ll give you a haiku and raise you a soliloquy, Brandie!

  207. Milo Hamilton says:

    Robert Griffin has just tweeted that he has been cleared to practice. Brian Cashman has told him to shut the bleep up.

  208. cmat0829 says:

    NH comments yesterday were pretty revealing… I expected more of the “we have moves we can make, but not desparate moves”, which he did again say, but he went much further, seeming to indicate that he has made his mind up to make some impact acquisitions… he commented about knowing they have to give up more than they want, but ‘can’t be foolish’ and they feel like they need to add to this team and to step up for this fanbase.

    I think decision is made, it will just come down to who they pull the trigger on.

    Up until this weekend, I was in the camp of “get a Cody Ross type for RF, get a Mark DeRosa or Jamey Carroll for supersub, and get another arm (not top tier) and call it a day”…but now, primarily because the core part of this offense are not ‘sure things’ in the clutch…. Cutch/Pedro/Jones/Martin/Marte/Walker are the core but they have huge gaps in their production for various reasons… so even though we have easy upgrades in RF, the reason we have to go big, go impact is not just about RF but because the ‘core’ of this offense isn’t good enough.

  209. cmat0829 says:

    Speaking of Cashman and AFraud, it is pretty comical how the ‘theater of the quad’ is playing out…ARod simply wants to get back on active roster so he can ‘retire due to injury’ and collect the insurance..Yanks should just let him come up, play one game and go back on DL and call it a career.

    If nothing else, it would be way entertaining to hear Susan Waldman squawk “Oh my Gawd Jawn, ARod is back in da Yanks dugout. Sitting next to Hank Steinbrenner. He is back in Yankee Stadium. The crowd is going totally crazy…oh hell with it, no one cares… “

  210. Brandie says:

    I like it. Comparative Literature Poker!

  211. Jandy says:

    They can have him!

  212. Brandie says:

    Love it! Nice screechy accent that created in my mind.

  213. Jandy says:

    :Thwap:
    That’s for being one over, Revvy! :P

  214. Milo Hamilton says:

    You forgot, “This is the greatest day in Yankee history Jawn.”

  215. Thundercrack says:

    +1 to both of you

  216. Brandie says:

    New Jersey…Gateway to Russia! (New Jersey state motto.)

  217. Milo Hamilton says:

    You do know I’m addicted to those two. They’re awful in such a campy way.

  218. NMR says:

    I’m sure you’ll do a fine job, Jim, but if there is one rule of thumb in the showcase circuit it is to follow the money.

    If you’re being asked to pay, it better not be for anything more than facility expenses.

  219. Brandie says:

    Thanks, Revvy!

  220. Jim S. says:

    Agreed.

  221. Stuart says:

    ++

    JJ has been “dying a thousand deaths” for such a long time, it’s surprising he is still around.

    Stuart

  222. Brandie says:

    And who heads that?

    The Evil Thom Brennaman (for example).

  223. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    I hope I’m not the California Weirdo DK is referencing..ha ha

    As far as the column is concerned, I would love to see the sanctions lifted for Bill O’brien and the players sake. As mentioned “for the right reasons.” What BO has done there is somewhat remarkable. Give him, his staff, and the players a chance to get over this situation and move on from it. This isn’t about the “Play football” idea, but more along the lines of building a new legacy, the Bill O’brien legacy. The man is a true testament of what leadership is about and what leading young men is all about.

    I am not a PSU alum, so my opinion may not be as important as those folks, but I have loved PSU football as much as the alumni did/do and I think the character that this man is showing is worthy of a redirect at the sanctions.

    I salute Mr. O’brien, his staff, and the players for their remarkable behavior during this horrible situation.

    I am still in disbelief and sickened about what took place there.

    JoePa’s legecy is gone. The wins removed and character tarnished forever.

  224. Jandy says:

    ZING!

  225. Jim S. says:

    I think Neil has become a 120 or so games per year (RHP-only) starter. But, he can be really good in those 120 games because it seems that he has improved defensively, and his OBP (walks) has improved as he has matured. I assume you are saying Jordy is the 2b vs. lefties, and Jordy-Barmes fight it out for SS vs. RHP.

  226. 21sthebest says:

    “NH comments yesterday were pretty revealing”

    You really think so? I always come away feeling the same – that I have no idea what’s going to happen.

  227. Stuart says:

    Jandy HBB!

    Sounds like you had a good one including a win.

    Best wishes for many more.

    Stuart

  228. Brandie says:

    Like the Mullet in Central PA…keeps turning up like a based penny.

  229. Jandy says:

    The win was sweet for sure! Thanks, Stuart :)

  230. Brandie says:

    Based penny= bad penny

  231. Jandy says:

    lolol

  232. Al says:

    Good afternoon, ladies. Jandy….happy belated birthday….old enough to know better but young enough that you still can’t refuse!
    Brandie…..the muppet show was and still is one of my favorites! (I never grew up in that respect).

    Can anyone give me a specific example of the Bylsma puck retrieval system? Everyone talks about how difficult it is to adjust to but I’ve never read about a specific example. OK…so the puck is now in your end. Who goes where? Who does what? How is it different from what other teams do?
    Hopng to be educated here.
    Thanks all.

  233. Jim S. says:

    Nice, Milo! King of the one-liners!

  234. CeeHowUR says:

    Yes, Sandusky got away with it because of his reputation in the community, after all, he founded Second Mile. The Clementine report mentioned this as a major factor. This is just speculation, but I’m sure after the 1998 investigation cleared Sandusky, many people assumed that it was just a disgruntled kid looking to get back at Sandusky for some discipline he may have received. So any further rumors or red flags may not have been taken seriously enough to be investigated.

  235. Jandy says:

    OK I gotta get some seriously heavy paperwork done.
    Hope to check in after a bit.
    Carry on, Loonies :)

  236. Jandy says:

    Al, thanks, friend…always feel 21 inside ;)

  237. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    “Next time I will remember to be illogical and inflammatory.”

    That would be typical Blog speak.

  238. Jim S. says:

    That recording of Susan from when they were going to re-sign Clemens for one of the many times is priceless.

    “Raw-ja Clemuns is in Gawj Steinbrennah’s box.”

  239. Brandie says:

    There is also the idea thast this kind of foolishness does not hapoien around here. So very, very wrong.

  240. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    But are we really surprised? He has been on fire in July and is much needed.

  241. Jim S. says:

    I listen to games on XM when I am out somewhere in the evening, and they are a trip. I find Sterling particularly annoying when something good happens for the Yankees, and he has to describe it several times, adding a little each time.

    Something like, “Jeter just singled over the drawn in infield. A single by the Captain of the Yanks over a drawn in infield. A single by the Captain of the Yanks over a drawn in infield that gives the Yanks the lead. The Captain has just given the Yanks a 3-2 lead in the 7th.”

    I don’t even think I’m exaggerating much, either.

  242. Naterosboro says:

    Small little thoughts on a Monday….

    * If you did not know, Lunaediesophobia is the fear of Mondays.

    * I’m happy with 1 of 3 in Cincy.

    * Need 3 out of 4 in Washington though.

    * I cited the fact that the Pirates are awful at hitting sac flies last week (or at least it seemed that way on the old “eye test”; didn’t actually cite any numbers). Saturday night is a prime example. Since we can’t hit flyballs with a man on 3rd & less than 2 outs, perhaps we should try our hand at the suicide squeeze (not the safety squeeze; I HATE the safety squeeze).

    * Love the way Jeff Locke commands the inside of the plate.

    * Jose Angulo’s goal against Wigan truly was world class. Great individual skill combined with a powerful finish from a tough angle.

    * Both goals in the Riverhounds win yesterday were great displays of team and individual play.

    * The Penguins skated around. Call me when training camp starts in September.

    * I’ll be looking forward to updates from Steelers training camp.

    * My thoughts on Joe Paterno: he was told a sex act (an act of sexual nature) between Jerry Sandusky and a boy happened, and only told his superiors, and then didn’t follow up. He dropped the ball big time (as did others).

    Thanks all! Enjoy your days! Beat dem Nats!

    :-)

  243. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    I agree. NH does not let anyone aware of what’s going on and I’m OK with that. I bet he’s a helluva poker player.

  244. NMR says:

    Haha, exactly. I really hope Brandie knows I was complimenting her.

  245. cmat0829 says:

    i think he went further than i’ve ever heard him go… i.e. “We know the players we want and what we want to give up to get them. We will stretch a LOT on some players and not on others”…something to that effect… he may be playing poker, but seems to me he is signalling to the other GMs… he will stretch a LOT (Stanton perhaps Garza) and not so much (likely Rios/Ramirez)….

  246. Brandie says:

    Just playing along!

  247. Brandie says:

    Thanks, darlin’.

  248. cmat0829 says:

    funny, i was thinking/hoping Martin might lay down a bunt… seriously the issue with Martin’s at bat is more than just a sac fly failure…they were playing the infield back, essentially GIVING the tying run with a ground ball up the middle… in that case, I’m ok letting Martin swing away (he is one of the Pirates with better bat control) but a pretty woeful failure in that spot.

  249. cmat0829 says:

    you have to add in the myriad of things the Yanks have ‘sponsored’…. innings, atbats, even pitch counts seem to be sponsored… “that foul ball in the stands sponsored by the law firm of Dewey, Cheetum, and Howe”…

  250. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    Who knows what he means really. Afterall, he is the smartest man in the room.

  251. Sisyphus says:

    The football program, athletic department, and university as a whole all failed to do the right thing in the Sandusky case, and the only reason I can think of for them to do that is to protect the football program’s brand.

    Many PSU supporters are more concerned with the football team rather than the child abuse that occurred in the Sandusky case.

    There ya go, no insinuating about it.

  252. Jim S. says:

    I’m sort of leaning your way on this, cmat. I think they are going to get something fairly substantial. There are rumors that the Bucs could be back in the Garza sweepstakes. I hope not, because I think they will have to give up too much to a division opponent. I am just now getting over the almost 10 years or so of pain inflicted on the Bucs by ARam as a Cub. I don’t think I can take that again. Garza will be gone almost immediately, and I don’t to be facing Glasnow 4x times a year forever.

    I don’t like short term gain/long term potential pain type of blockbuster deals. Not for small market teams.

  253. NMR says:

    Figured as much, but I know how tone can be lost on the interwebs.

    Glad to connect with you on this issue, Brandie.

  254. NMR says:

    That’s exactly what I’m suggesting.

    BTW, maybe the hits help, but man is it fun to watch Barmes play shortstop again.

  255. cmat0829 says:

    I guess my main point is that stuff said to the media is pretty much irrelevant.. I’m sure all the GMs talk enough to know what is out there and what is not. Seems to me he is trying to manage expectations with what he says to the media… in years past, he was trying to minimize expectations, this year not so much. Again, I’m pretty balanced on whether to go big or go small on acquisitions, but I do notice the difference in media comments this year vs. years past.

  256. theplanisworking says:

    I took a wrong turn at Albequerque, and ended up here.

    Mow I feel like a zoo attraction for the blog.

  257. NMR says:

    One thing to remember, not a single one of Huntington’s deadline deals have been rumored before they happened.

    If history is any marker, the players we’re talking about and the players HE is talking about are probably not the same.

  258. cmat0829 says:

    Agree Jim, I’m a ‘prospect hoarder’ (is there a 12-step program?); but I wouldn’t compare a salary purge deal (Ramirez to Cubs in well documented salaray dump due to debt rules) to any deadline deals that give up prospects… I don’t think we have had one of those in many, many years, perhaps back to Moises Alou for Zane Smith.

  259. cmat0829 says:

    right you are, and I can see that again. The rumors out there are carefully planted by either sellers or buyers for leverage… and the most interesting deals are the ones not being talked about at all. My point is mostly on the generic positioning NH is making, not on any specific players… he ‘knows who he wants and how much he wants to pay for them”. He didn’t say it was Stanton or Rios or Garza….

  260. theplanisworking says:

    Hi Brandie!

    Off for the afternoon, good seeing you here.

    Nice post earlier.
    You;re a fine lass, you are.

    Maybe see you for the Buc game tonight.

    Hippo out.

  261. NMR says:

    Sisyphus shows up and gets all righteous and indignant.

    What a shocker.

  262. Jim S. says:

    Definitely. I have my opinions about who should come and go on the roster, but once the game starts I want them all to do well. Prove me wrong, Fort! I would love him to get back to hitting like last year.

  263. Brandie says:

    Leaving myself in a bit. See you all later.

  264. Jim S. says:

    Yeah, he’s unorthodox as heck. But, he just makes all the plays. That last popup was not an easy play. He handled it very well. If he hits, I’m ok with him starting. Maybe the loss of his job has put a good kind of pressure on him at bat. Not that he is every going to be productive. But, he doesn’t have to be Jeter with the bat.

  265. NMR says:

    Just because the Pirates have been anecdotaly awful at hitting sac flies as of late doesn’t mean they actually are – as individual players – awful at hitting sac flies.

    I don’t want Clint hitting the panic button like he did last year. Players feed off that kind of thing.

  266. Jim S. says:

    “This 2-2 count sponsored by Even Steven’s pizza.”

  267. Jim S. says:

    You’re right that the situations are different. I just meant that I don’t want another one-sided deal with the Cubs. They got themselves into their mess again. We are just climbing out of ours. Don’t help them for one fleeting chance at glory.

    Prospect hoarders unite!

  268. 21sthebest says:

    Alright everybody keep your wisecracks to yourselves!

  269. NMR says:

    Seems odd for an older player to get better as the season goes on, but Barmes’ best two months last year were August and September.

    If he could hit like he did in those months, I’d be pleased as a peach.

  270. Naterosboro says:

    They’re awful at it. I actually looked up the numbers b/c you challenged my eye test.

    In the NL so far this season, the Pirates rank 16 out of 16 (and 32 out of 32 in MLB) in Sac Flies with 12 (Miami is 15th with 14).

    The NL avg. is 23 (MLB avg. is 26). Again, the Pirates have 12 so far this season.

    Cincinnati is #1 in the NL with 34 (LAA are #1 in MLB with 41). Again, the Pirates have 12.

    Believe me now? This isn’t a problem of late. It’s been a problem all season.

  271. Jim S. says:

    I don’t think hitters have much control over whether or not to lift the ball and drive it 275 feet. It may look like certain guys can do that at will, such as when Walker seemed to hit sac flies on command his first few years. But, the difference between a ground ball and a fly ball is a fraction of an inch on a bat. I agree that you can adjust your swing to try and lift a ball. That’s not too tough in BP, I guess. But, against a MLB pitcher who places the ball so well and changes speed, etc? Adjusting your swing that way seems to me like the kind of risk that would take a serious set of cajones for a hitter to try. Maybe I’m wrong. It just seems very difficult to ever master a skill like that.

  272. NMR says:

    First, number stats don’t tell us anything compared to rate stats.

    Second, are you going to trust half a season or the rest of each players career?

  273. Jim S. says:

    First hypothetical question of the day.

    If you knew the Pirates could give up, say, 5 of their top 10 prospects this month and be guaranteed to win the WS this year, but also be guaranteed to then not be a factor for at least the next 5 years, would you do it if …

    You also knew that by not giving up those 5 prospects this month the Pirates would be guaranteed to be in a playoff chase at the very least every one of those 5 years with approximately a 1/5 chance of winning the WS in any given year?

  274. NMR says:

    Don’t let anyone tell you your opinion doesn’t matter as much as a PSU alum’s, Ryan.

    Good post.

  275. Jim S. says:

    Regression, regression everywhere.

    * The St. Louis Cardinals are now hitting .338 w/ RISP for the season. They are on pace to smash the all-time record. I think the record is somewhere around .310.

    * The Pirates’ batters are next to last in MLB in OPS w/ RISP

    * Pirates’ pitchers have the best OPS against in MLB w/ RISP

    Interesting.

  276. Jim S. says:

    He went from A-Rod to Pay-Rod to A-Fraud, and now to A-Quad.

  277. Jim S. says:

    Aoki? No mention of him.

  278. NMR says:

    Yes and Yes.

    Only five years? Pshh. I’d give up watching the Pirates altogether for five years if it meant a WS.

  279. NMR says:

    Shhh don’t jinx it!!! :)

  280. Jim S. says:

    Wow! I can appreciate that, NMR. But I’d never sign up for it.

  281. John Lease says:

    Concur

  282. Karen22 says:

    Bummer. I’m on a “downward plane.”

  283. Bizrow says:

    I see Stetson Allie has his BA up to 267

    Not so bad a year for that fellow so far

  284. Jim S. says:

    I’d need to see # of opportunities for each team. OB%, GB/FB rate, and a team’s propensity to K probably has a lot to do with it. At least 2 of those things (OB% & K rate) work against the Bucs from the get go.

  285. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    That’s easy. Abso-freakin-lutely.

  286. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    Pitching wins. Now, combine timely hitting (W/RISP) to great pitching, that leads to great things.

    Cards are real tough

  287. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    Still much to improve on too. Good to see.

  288. John Lease says:

    Both Jack Wilson and Freddy were rumored before they happened.

  289. pattonbb says:

    Absolutely and most definitely.

    I survived 20+ years of not being a factor. Give me a WS title and I’ll be good for another 20.

  290. Jim S. says:

    Hope he’s not in some other organization in a week or so. He’s just starting to get interesting. But, he is probably exactly the kind of guy that could be shipped now. I don’t know what he would fetch, but if I am another GM and I have been paying attention he would jump out at me as an extra in a trade with the Bucs.

  291. Nate83 says:

    Jim I agree with this in theory but some teams always seem to do these things well and other things like this well. So there has to be something to it. There are too many empty outs for it not to have something to do with the approach at the plate.

    The Tigers do this as well. They are a horrible situational hitting team. Their stats may show scoring a lot of runs and may even show a lot of sacrifice flys because they are such a good hitting team they have guys on 3rd with less then two outs way more often then the Pirates.

  292. NMR says:

    In a very loosely connected way, I liken it to the Penn State sanctions.

    People what it will be like during and after four years of sanctions. Well, I was a Penn State fan in the early part of of this century when they fielded some atrocious teams and guess what, we all survived.

    Similarly, I’ve made it through two decades of crappy baseball with my fandom unscathed. If trading prospects yields a positive result like the sanctions hopefully will do, then I’ll gladly take a couple years of crap.

  293. Karen22 says:

    Best book and movie EVER!

  294. The Gunner says:

    The BMTIB won’t ever do anything like that. Let’s hope they dominate the Nationals this week.

  295. NMR says:

    You’re right, but I thought we’re discussing trades in the position of “buyer” not “seller”.

  296. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    I love your prospects as much as the next guy, but I’m giving up unknown commidities for a known one.

  297. Jandy says:

    Yes, yes, yes!

  298. The Gunner says:

    I like Allie, too. He could be the 1B of the future. But, if he can help us land a big bat who can help right now, the BMTIB has to give it some serious consideration.

  299. NMR says:

    FWIW, the Pirates have still been bad this year when judged by ratios (1 SF per 11 AB).

    But the 2011 and 2012 teams both had 1 per 5 AB, with lesser hitters.

  300. Karen22 says:

    And me…I’m a puddle. “Be more grateful.” MUST keep this three word gem in the forefront of my mind, always.

  301. Milo Hamilton says:

    There is no such thing as an untouchable minor leaguer.

  302. Nate83 says:

    But there are no guarantee’s and I would like to be set up to compete for the next decade. I have a simple rule of thumb and that is would the A’s or Devil Rays make that trade. If the answer is no then I wouldn’t.

    How gutsy was it for them to trade Shield’s during the off season. They could do that because of their pitching depth they had. There will come a day when the Pirates can’t afford Cole, Taillon, Marte, Alverez, Polanco and Cutch. It would be nice to be able to trade some of those guys and receive back 2 or 3 high end prospects and have the depth in the minors to still compete.

    Does adding Cliff Lee and Stanton to the team make us a better team on paper then the Cardinals? I’m not sure it does.

  303. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    Absolutely right…who knows who is being talked about and to me, that’s the cool thing about the trade deadline stuff.

  304. Jandy says:

    :howling:

    Dayum, that came out all wrong 0=)

    I’m not sorry tho, that REALLY cracked me up LOL!

  305. NMR says:

    Perhaps you didn’t read all of Jim’s post.

    Let me copy the very first line:

    “First hypothetical question of the day.”

  306. Jandy says:

    No way I’d sign up for that…keep the prospects.

  307. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    Ummm??

  308. CeeHowUR says:

    How does McQuery telling his dad, Dr.Dranov, Paterno>Curley> Shultz>Spanier>Raykovitz protect the football brand?

    Are OSU supporters more concerned about their football team rather than child abuse? How about Alabama? Duke? (Trick question-substitute basketball for football and ask it again.)

  309. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    Not to mention the upgrade on the bench that he can provide.

  310. NMR says:

    I wouldn’t even bother.

    He’s not looking for rational conversation, he’s looking to feel self-important.

    No place like the internet to stoke one’s ego.

  311. Wild Bill says:

    Hello All. I’ve been a participant in chats occasionally with DK, but never joined this blog because I’ve been afraid it could be addicting. Still, I read you all and pay particular attention to Thundercrack. Today’s topic strikes close to home, however.

    As a PSU alum, I can tell you with confidence that there is no greater intensity than that of PSU alums toward one another on this topic. But all of us are appalled and devastated at what happened at our alma mater. The desire for full accountability and proper blame continues to divide us and the matter of how to avoid it ever happening again unites us.

    At the risk of ageism, I think that Joe should have been forcibly retired at the age of 70 – 15+ years ago. Much would have been different at PSU years ago if he had been, although the previous wise contributor’s post reminds us Sandusky would have been doing this evil already by then or doing it somewhere else. Joe’s influence at PSU grew far too large to be healthy for a football coach to have at any university – despite all the positives of his career.

    I do not for a moment think that a Mark Emmert desperate for positive press would ever cut Penn State a break. But much as I don’t care for him and how he handled this situation, this situation is not about him. It’s about the soul of PSU going forward, and all of the positive changes that have now been made per the Freeh report. This positive change includes Coach O’Brien’s fine work so far. Most of all, I pray for the futures of the kids abused and hope that we have all learned to be more attentive where we live and work.

    Soon to search for an avatar, Wild Bill, Selinsgrove, Pa.

  312. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    I’ve always liked Barmes D. He is an above-average defender and makes some difficult plays look easy. I have never had knock on the guy about his defense.

    Nice to see him hitting as well. .323 for the month of July. I think we can handle that.

  313. Bizrow says:

    Welcome Wild Bill

    Thanks for posting and thanks for posting your current residence

    I’ll see if Selingrove is on our lunatic location list tonight

  314. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    Exactly.

  315. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    The avatar thing is overrated Bill, don’t sweat it.

  316. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    Thank you.

  317. NMR says:

    MC Hammer begs to differ.

  318. JohninOshkosh says:

    I have never been a big proponent of the “window of opportunity” theory. That somehow the prospects allow for X amount of years of opportunity to go to playoffs. Way, way too many variables involved-injuries, slumps, suspensions, free agency, prospect busts etc etc. One of the hardest things in baseball, even with the expanded WC, is to make the playoffs, much less year after year.

    The Pirates have a legitimate chance to go to the WS THIS YEAR! Ask the ChiSox, Hurdle’s Rockies, the Astros, etc about prolonged opportunities. And, perhaps, ask the Nationals in a few years if they still think sitting their best pitcher in the playoffs last year was the right call.

    As to your hypothetical I say “yes.” I would be pretty happy if I was a Marlins fan knowing I have two WS titles in the last 16 years to ponder about and fondly remember, even though the organization was subsequently blown up after each title.

    I’m not interested in Indianapolis and Altoona fielding a good team. Prospects are poker chips to be played with, or withheld, depending on the hand dealt. Ryan thinks NH would be a good poker player. We shall see. Because this is the closest the Pirates have had to a straight flush since that slide happened in Atlanta.

    Fun question, Jim!

  319. Bizrow says:

    I’m not touching that one with a 50 foot pole…..

  320. Bizrow says:

    Yeah, 40 Ks or so in around 100 at bats

  321. cmat0829 says:

    good one…..

  322. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    Prospects are just that…Not known to what they can do, but if by giving them away, the Pirates continue to win and stay in contention?

    Easy peezy

  323. John Lease says:

    Breaking news, Jeff Salazar is available as a free agent.

    Let’s bring him back and see what on earth made the Pirates sign him in 2009…

  324. Nate83 says:

    Thanks NMR. It is always appreciated. I didn’t realize a situation that included an automatic World Series win was hypothetical. Thank god you set my simple mind straight. I usually don’t deal with hypothetical’s but I will give it a go to make you happy.

    Hypothetically I would take 5 years of competing with the 20% chance of winning each year.

  325. cmat0829 says:

    have to think K rate is part of this… you can’t rely on Pedro and sadly even Cutch at times to make contact in clutch situations.

  326. Jandy says:

    +++

  327. Jandy says:

    Agreed!

  328. JohninOshkosh says:

    The sober truth is that you have to give up something to get something. Giancarlo does not come without a price. And if you are not willing to accept that hard, cold fact, then you have no business being a GM.

  329. Jim S. says:

    But, even known quantities bring unknown results over 2 months – as history has shown, Nor Cal.

  330. Jim S. says:

    Correct on Jack & Freddy, but I think NMR’s larger point about these trades usually coming out of the blue is a good one.

  331. Milo Hamilton says:

    Leaguer. Minor leaguer.

  332. Jim S. says:

    So proud of my restraint for over an hour.

  333. cmat0829 says:

    I think with everything you have to be balanced… and remember that competing in today’s MLB is easier than in many of the 20 years of futility… see teams like San Diego, Colorado ‘competing’ this year…

    I would aggressively trade PITCHING prospects but I’d be very, very careful with top shelf HITTING prospects. To me Polanco is UNTOUCHABLE and Hansen is close to it. I’d let Taillon go before Polanco and it ain’t even close in my mind.

    We’ve seen how the Pirates can develop ‘league leading’ pitching staffs, and they have a lot of depth in the pitching department. But they will never be able to pay $$ for truly good offensive players as free agents so you need to hold on to those that you develop.

    An OF of Marte/Cutch/Polanco is ours for a number of years… you can mix amd match the odd vets in the other positions of need and compete regularly.

    It doesn’t have to be ‘either or’ my friends, it can and should be both going for WS this year AND competing for the next 5. Challenge is that there is NO trade that I see, even for Stanton, that makes the Pirates BETTER than the Cardinals… so going all out doesn’t mean that a WS is clinched… I know no one is saying that, but just to point that out….

  334. Bizrow says:

    ++++++

  335. Jim S. says:

    I agree that the Bucs have been bad at it this year, Nate. No doubt about that. I just wondered (above) about K rate, GB/FB rate, & the fact that our lower than avg. OB% as a team might mean we have less chances. But, I guess that last part doesn’t hold water. And I don’t know what our GB rate is as a team.

    We definitely strike out far too much. That has to be a factor. But, so do the Reds I thought. I think they have some guys who get on base a lot (Votto, Choo), so maybe that gives them a lot more chances?

  336. Bizrow says:

    Carlos Pena and Ronny Cedeno are also DFA’s

    Please, nooooooo

  337. 21sthebest says:

    I’ll sign up for that easily. I’m hoping to live another 40 years or so. Ever hear of the Cubs? Red Sox?

  338. Jim S. says:

    +++

  339. 21sthebest says:

    “I read you all and pay particular attention to Thundercrack.”

    You can get help for that, you know.

    DK: I actually operate a backyard booth that specializes in this. Costs only 5 cents.

  340. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    Only if its 2 legit…..then you can’t quit

  341. SeanAY says:

    “The Pirates have a legitimate chance to go to the WS THIS YEAR!”

    I’ve seen a couple people post things to this effect, so just know that I’m not picking on you specifically…but really? Like, this is a thing that people outside of the Pirates’ clubhouse believes?

    This may be hyper-skeptical and pessimistic, but I still don’t see this team as that good. I don’t know how we can sit around and legitimately complain of at least three fairly big holes in the line-up, and just about the entire bench, and then say, “This team is a WORLD SERIES CONTENDER!”

    Then again, I was five years old the last time they had a winning record. I’m just conditioned for a rough turn of events.

  342. Playoffs by 2012 says:

    Chris Duffy

  343. NMR says:

    It’s Jim’s question, Nate, and a good one at that.

    He wasn’t asking for a dissertation on what the Pirates SHOULD do or what other small market clubs HAVE done.

  344. Jandy says:

    That sounds good, be greedy!

  345. SeanAY says:

    “Challenge is that there is NO trade that I see, even for Stanton, that makes the Pirates BETTER than the Cardinals.”

    +1.

  346. Playoffs by 2012 says:

    Stetson Allie is Mark Reynolds with more K’s and more errors.

  347. Jandy says:

    ZING!

  348. NMR says:

    Man, I strongly agree with so much of this, espically saving pitching over hitting.

    Isn’t there an old saying that goes something like five pitching prospects equal one pitcher?

  349. Jandy says:

    beleaguered!

  350. Jim S. says:

    I want each year to be exciting. If we can be contenders with a shot at a WS ring, I’ll go for that over 1 WS and back to irrelevance any day. It took 20 long years to get here … and we are not even here for certain yet. But, I don’t want to go back.

    But, that’s why I asked the question. These answers are good.

  351. Sisyphus says:

    And you show up to prove that you don’t know the meanings of the words “righteous” or “indignant”.

  352. Jandy says:

    ::snicker::

    still cracking up here lol

  353. John Lease says:

    What about last year’s Drew Sutton?

    Enrique Wilson is probably out there as well, assuming there is a door big enough for him to fit thru.

  354. Jim S. says:

    Actually, I struggled to make that clear Nor Cal. But, my deal was … trade the prospects now for a guaranteed WS title now, then automatically go back to irrelevance for next 5 years. Or, keep the prospects but be guaranteed to be a pennant contender for at least the next 5 years with a 1/5 chance of winning a WS each year.

  355. John Lease says:

    How about the better, cheaper version we already own? AKA Alex Presley…

  356. Drew71 says:

    No you can’t.

    You are banned, Bill.

  357. Sisyphus says:

    How does everyone from Paterno on down through the president of the university, the athletic director, and so on down to McQuery fail to call the cops? They all had brief mental laspes? Or they didn’t want to face the bad publicity that was sure to come?

  358. Sisyphus says:

    “Yawn”

  359. Nate83 says:

    Then maybe you should let Jim respond to me if he is not happy with how I answered it. It is a free blog and it does not need policed by you. I understood the question and do not need you repeating directions to me as if I was in 2nd grade. It is possible to point something out or logically debate the other side of something without being condescending.

  360. He’s already got a Catholic wife, but a saintly nun, too.

    Some guys have all the fun.

  361. John Lease says:

    John Raynor didn’t even play in the MINORS after 2010? We tried hanging onto that guy for what reason, exactly?

  362. Jim S. says:

    Thanks, Osh. I just wanted to see where everyone would shake out. I find everyone’s take very interesting.

  363. Bizrow says:

    If that is not post of the year, well, the vote is rigged

  364. 21sthebest says:

    You get what you pay for!

  365. cmat0829 says:

    right, and I only advocate trading Taillon in a Stanton type of deal, nothing short of that. But my point I guess is, say we trade a pitching prospect or two, there are some legitimate other prospects that would still be around… if you traded Polanco, the cupboard is a bit bare there…

    And I know that prospects are ‘suspect’ but when players reach say, the top 50 or top 30, what is the track record there? I’d assume it is better than top 100, and much better than the general pool of ‘prospects’.

  366. Thundercrack says:

    Bill,
    Welcome. You do need some help.

    Thanks for the attention. I’ve been starved for it since I was a child. I blame my parents. Since then I’ve swallowed a lot of aggression…along with a lot of pizzas.

    And if you want to read my lighthearted, nonthreatening posts about the Riverhounds you gotta get to them quickly. They tend to get deleted pretty fast.

    :-)

  367. Sisyphus says:

    Back when you were five, the lineup had three enormous black holes in the lineup, and a so-so platoon at first base.

  368. Jim S. says:

    We had just gotten on the highway from Great American Ball Park yesterday to drive home, and my daughter said we should flip on the end of the Cards-Padres. The Padres were just coming to bat in the 9th, down by a run. Edward Mojito (Mujica, actually) was closing for St L. The Dads got a guy on 1st with two outs, and their next hitter hit one down the line for extra bases. Mike Shannon, Cards announcer, said the Cards got a real break when the ball hopped over the fence for a book rule double because the tying run would have easily scored. I thought back to Saturday, when Mercer hit a double with a man on 1b that jumped over the wall on a bounce, effectively taking a run off the board for the Bucs, who eventually lost by a run.

    The next guy up for San Diego hit a long ball to LF, and Shannon said, “This one is trouble.” But, Allen Craig jumped up and brought back a potential 3-run HR. Shannon said that was a victory snatched from the jaws of defeat.

    Ugh!!!

  369. It’s got my vote.

  370. Jandy says:

    Oh man, no way!

    ::snicker::

  371. Jandy says:

    Lucky b*st*rd LOLOL!

  372. Not me. I’ll be exactly 100 in 40 years and I want to see some legit ball for more than one fairy-tale, fleeting, unsustainable season and parts of 2 others.

  373. Jim S. says:

    I’m good with however you want to answer it, Nate. I was just stirring up a little debate about point of view of the importance of prospects. I’m in the hoarder camp. I always want the Bucs relevant, if/when they get back there.

    Then, again, I was the 22 year old sitting in the Benefits guy’s office fresh out of school nodding my head yes when he said to put as much aside as you can every paycheck to prepare for the future.

    Not everyone agrees about how to do things. That is what makes life interesting. More than one way to get the job done.

  374. Milo Hamilton says:

    Apparently the Royals have had a baby boy. Dayton Moore couldn’t be more pleased.

  375. Jim S. says:

    That’s pretty darn close to how I see it.

  376. Jandy says:

    Poor kid…

  377. Nate83 says:

    I think this is correct but he is still young and it is his first full year as a hitting prospect. Maybe he can make adjustments. The one thing he has going for him is that he walks a lot. I know his chances of making it are slim but it sure is an interesting situation to watch unfold.

  378. Jandy says:

    I know I’m pulling for him!

  379. A bold reaming for you and Wild Bill.

  380. Milo Hamilton says:

    Early frontrunner for a name is Prince Diddy.

  381. Playoffs by 2012 says:

    Good call

  382. Arriba Wilver says:

    +1

  383. Nate83 says:

    No problem Jim. I have always enjoyed talking baseball with you. I didn’t think you had any issue with my response. I was just responding to somebody who did take issue with my response. Sorry I mentioned your name. It wasn’t my intention to bring you into the middle of it. Keep posting. I really enjoy your post and you keep things very positive.

  384. Jim S. says:

    I hear you about the holes in our lineup, Sean. But, did you catch that Reds lineup with the holes this weekend?

    The Cards fans are complaining that they have a guy who can’t field as well as Barmes but hitting like him at SS. & Yadi has a bum leg that he keeps playing on. And there have been some shaky outings from their young starters lately. And they have Edward Mujica closing. He has done well this year, but he’s not a sure thing.

    The Cards have hit .338 with RISP to get this big run differential. Since no team in history has finished with nearly that high a batting avg. w/ RISP, I’m guessing we could see a few chinks in their armour in the next 75 days. I don’t think we are as good as St. Louis, either, but we are right there with them after 96.

  385. Jandy says:

    I smell trouble brewing, I’m gonna go, maybe catch some of the game here if I can.
    Have a nice night, Loonies :)

  386. Drew71 says:

    Thunder van Pelt.

    Ok. That works.

  387. Drew71 says:

    And Charlie Brownacevic.

  388. Jim S. says:

    Come on over to the dark side, Lucky. Jandy & I are getting lonely over here. Nate might join us.

  389. The Gunner says:

    Hurdle hates Cedeno so don’t worry, RC won’t be back anytime soon, ha ha

  390. NMR says:

    Completely agreed, but obviously depends on your definintion of “legitimate chance”.

    If by “legitimate chance” you mean that anything can happen once you get into the playoffs, then sure, what the heck.

  391. Jim S. says:

    A’s & Rays are a good model to emulate, Nate.

  392. Arriba Wilver says:

    +1

  393. Nate83 says:

    Don’t worry my feet are firmly planted on the dark side. I am all about building a team that is relevant for years to come.

  394. SeanAY says:

    Fair points, all. Everyone has warts, I suppose. I just don’t see there being, realistically, anywhere the Pirates can get MUCH better, even in a trade. Maybe on the bench if they find a guy that gets on a hot streak.

  395. NMR says:

    The difference between those lineups and ours is that they have studs to fill in the gaps.

    The Reds surround their wholes with Choo, Votto, Phillips, and Bruce.

    The Cards surround their whole with Molina, Beltran, and Craig.

    The Pirates have McCutchen and nobody else on the same level as those other teams.

  396. NMR says:

    We can only hope Allie turns into Mark Reynolds.

  397. Jim S. says:

    My theory on the pitchers is that I don’t want to give up Cole, Taillon, Kingham, Glasnow or Heredia because I’m hoping 2 of them end up being top of the rotation starters, and a 3rd might be serviceable. That would give us a dominant rotation for a lot of years. But, if we can get Aoki or better this year, I’d part with Heredia. I think he is the farthest away, and the least sure thing of the group.

    I agree with cmat that Polanco keeps rising up everyone’s board. If this continues in AA by Sept, he becomes someone with a pretty high chance of being a very good hitter at the MLB level. Those guys are rare.

  398. Drew71 says:

    What have they done?

    In 2011 the leaders of the Commonwealth countries agreed to change the baby’s place in the order of succession will be the same regardless of gender. The change was passed into law this year.

    Historically, boys automatically superceded female siblings. So a first-born daughter could be pushed out of line by a younger brother.

    WHAT HAVE THEY DONE?????

  399. Arriba Wilver says:

    +1

  400. Jim S. says:

    True about St. Louis. They have guys waiting in the wings who can hit. Craig won’t hit .488 w/ RISP all year, though.

    The Reds have some good players also, but I didn’t think they were so loaded in the minors. Heisey is pretty bad, and they should be looking to replace him. Maybe Ludwick is due back any day. If not, a guy from the minors would be playing right now I think.

    Choo is a terrific leadoff hitter, but no one will convince me he doesn’t give back runs in CF, especially with Heisey in LF. Our defense is way better in the OF than either of those teams.

    Votto? Well, we don’t have Votto. He has a .434 OB% as of yesterday.

    Phillips is an overrated hitter. I know he has 78 RBI. But, with Votto and Choo always on base, I think a lot of guys could have a bunch of RBI there. He’s hitting about .265 with a low OB% and not a lot of XBH in an extreme hitter’s park. Why he bats 4th, I have no idea.

  401. Jim S. says:

    +++

  402. Jim S. says:

    Even though I am a hoarder, Gunner, Allie is the kind of player I would trade at the deadline for the right piece.

  403. Jim S. says:

    What if he’s Chris Davis?

  404. Jim S. says:

    Haha!

  405. pattonbb says:

    Don’t you dare tell JAL that.

  406. Jim S. says:

    I’ve been saying for awhile that he deserves a shot in place of Snider – at least, for awhile. Maybe that will light a fire under Snider to get his job back. Or, maybe Alex will catch fire for 2 months as we know he can do.

  407. theplanisworking says:

    Prince West.

  408. Jim S. says:

    Spoken like a true fellow snowman!!

  409. Dave G says:

    Prince Michael III , or “Pillow”

  410. Wild Bill says:

    Drew,

    You must be single or single again.

  411. NMR says:

    I thought SeanAY was talking specifically about major league hitting when he spoke of the lineup and bench, but I could be wrong.

    My overall point on holes in the lineup is that all teams do have them to some degree, but the really good ones have hitters to make up for them.

    The Pirates, right now, IMO, do not have those guys. The numbers would seem to back that up.

  412. Jim S. says:

    Possibly the decade.

  413. Nate83 says:

    I’m not even sure if we know Chris Davis is Chris Davis yet. Time will tell. Remember that year Brady Anderson hit 52 home runs. Heck even Inge hit like 35 home runs one year.

  414. Brandie says:

    Smiles for you, Al.

  415. Brandie says:

    Rock on, Wild Bill!

  416. JohninOshkosh says:

    Me too. Fun discussion. For the record, I think Stanton makes them a better team. Better than the Cardinals, I think.

  417. Drew71 says:

    I wish

  418. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    Yup, still don’t care….

  419. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    He’s on vacation, won’t notice.

  420. Joni says:

    Beau Bennett is on the U.S. Olympic team’s orientation camp roster! The odds of Bennett’s actually being on the final team roster is slim/none, but to be a part of the orientation camp is quite a privilege.

    Maybe Bylsma will let him play more regular season games now. Sadly, I doubt it.

    DK: Hearing third line again. Not sarcasm. For real.

  421. JohninOshkosh says:

    “The Lost Boys” is the only decent film Schumacher has made.

    Humanity shall never forgive him for “The Number 23.”

  422. Hart says:

    Consider…

    Sandusky retires at age 55 after being reportedly told he would not be next head coach. He was still young, arguably one of the better d-coordinators in the country, and had a desire to be a head coach…and no other team in the highly competitive world of college sports approached him? Why?

    Simple hypothesis. He was black-balled. Colleges knew there was an issue and so did the NCAA. Where was the NCAA then?

    The NCAA is a trade organization and their demonstrated hypocrisy is at issue here. Clearly, there is no defensible position for any individual or organization in regards to Sandusky’s criminal behavior. But it seems probable that the NCAA’s own lack of action and subsequent sanctions could well be a bit of the “pot calling the kettle black”.

  423. Cobra39 says:

    DK really needs to let go of his Penn State/Paterno hate. Cleanse the soul of the bile and venom.

    Sanctions should be reduced, no question. Paterno’s wins should be restored, also.

    I have no particular affiliation with PSU, I’m a Pitt grad, but if you’re a fair-minded person you should be able to see that the sanctions were over the top.

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