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Final: Pirates 2, Cardinals 1, 11 innings, Game 1

By Dejan Kovacevic | Trib Total Media

Looking ahead to first pitch …

Game 1, doubleheader: Pirates (62-42) vs. St. Louis Cardinals (62-41)

Starters: RHP A.J. Burnett vs. RHP Lance Lynn

Time: 4:05 p.m.

Site: PNC Park

TV, radio: Root Sports, 93.7 The Fan

Here’s the official live box score.

Here’s the Pirates’ lineup …

  1. Starling Marte, LF
  2. Neil Walker, 2B
  3. Andrew McCutchen, CF
  4. Pedro Alvarez, 3B
  5. Russell Martin, C
  6. Garrett Jones, 1B
  7. Alex Presley, RF
  8. Clint Barmes, SS
  9. Burnett, P

Here’s TribLIVE’s Pirates page. Rob Biertempfel and Joe Starkey are on the scene.

Author: Dejan Kovacevic

Dejan Kovacevic, a lifelong Pittsburgher, is an award-winning sports columnist for Trib Total Media covering the Steelers, Penguins, Pirates, Pitt and, recently, his fourth Olympics in Sochi, Russia. He also appears on WPXI-TV's 'Subway Final Word’ and hosts a weekly show on TribLIVE Radio. For 2011, he was named one of the country's top four columnists by the AP Sports Editors. For 2012, he was named one of the country's top three columnists by the National Headliners. For 2013, he was named the state's top columnist by the Keystone Press Awards and top columnist in Western Pennsylvania by the Golden Quills.


  1. theplanisworking says:


    LETS GO BUCS!!!!

    WIN THEM ALL !!!!!!! ;)

  2. Jandy says:

    WOOT! Go Bucs!

  3. Scott says:

    Dejan- Do you think the odds are good that Tony Sanchez makes his debut at catcher in Game 2? Also do you see Mercer and Tabata taking over SS and RF?

  4. JRay3 says:

    Cardinals Lineup for Game One and Lance Lynn is throwing the first game, the LHP Lyons has been moved to the nightcap to face Cumpton.

    Carpenter, Jay, Holliday, Beltran, Adams, Cruz, Descalso, Kozma, Lynn

    Only way to sweep a DH is to make sure you win game one, so let’s get this one under the belts and take a little pressure off of game two.

  5. Thundercrack says:

    Those crazy outfield shifts are back! Two center fielders.

    DK: Fixed. Sorry.

  6. JAL says:

    Cards sitting Molina, Craig, and Freese in game 1

  7. Playoffs by 2012 says:


    Makes my job a helluva lot easier

    Max “wager” is 100 units on any single line.
    All “wagers” must be in multiples of 5 units.
    Play as few or as many lines as you’d like.
    As always, this is for fun and entertainment purposes.


    Special Pick ‘Em Line
    TOTAL WINS by the Pirates against the Cardinals today
    0 (EVEN ODDS)
    1 (EVEN ODDS)

    Game #1 Line
    Total STRIKEOUTS by Pirates Batters in Game 1
    Line is 8.5

    Game #2 Line
    Total HOMERUNS HIT by Pirates Batters in Game 2
    Line is 1.5


    Please Note – All games must be considered official games in order for line(s) to be valid. Any postponement, cancellation, or suspension of game(s) will void line(s).

    GOOD LUCK!!!

    62 Down, only 20 more to go!!

    Anything is possible if a person believes
    Mark 9:23

    KEEP CALM & BREAK .500

  8. JRay3 says:

    CH said yesterday on his pregame show Martin would only catch one game, so yes Sanchez will get the start in second game and catch Cumpton someone he should be very familiar with.

  9. JRay3 says:

    This seems like the lineup to take advantage of. But baseball is a funny game.

  10. Scott says:

    That’s great! I agree–good chemistry for sure. Very excited– Baseball heaven today/tonight.

  11. Milo Hamilton says:

    Bud Norris could be headed here. I don’t know if he’s better than any of the 5 we already have.

  12. theplanisworking says:

    Did you see from the Morning thread, I had a relative play MLB?

    Hippo Vaughn for the Cubs in 1917. :D

  13. JohninOshkosh says:

    Could someone explain that 26th man rule for DH ?

    Does it apply for traditional DH or only day/night ones ? If it does apply, who did the Pirates bring up ?

  14. pattonbb says:

    Bud Norris to be dealt today and Astros are high on Tyler Glasnow. Could we have our first trade?

  15. Jandy says:

    Hey! I want your autograph Hipposter!

  16. Milo Hamilton says:

    You can add a 26th player for any DH scheduled more than 48 hours in advance.

  17. Dom says:

    I don’t think that SP is a need and that price tag is awfully high.

  18. JRay3 says:

    Jeff Passan of Yahoo reports the Astros like Tyler Glasnow. Yikes. Who does Norris replace – Morton? Cole?

    Glasnow this year is 8-2 2.24 ERA .149 Opp Avg., 128 K’s in 91 IP, 1.05 WHIP in Low A WV.

    He has jumped in Pirate prospect ranking and have seen him anywhere from #3 – #7.

  19. mcpitt88 says:

    Lets hope not …. on mlbtraderumors–Danny Knobler of CBS Sports hears the Astros have no trade close with anyone as of now.

  20. Nate83 says:

    I hope that Glasnow is not part of any Bud Norris trade. Pitching depth is needed going forward with AJ retiring/leaving and Wandy and Liriano only having one year left on contract. Norris is not that much better then what we currently have.

  21. theplanisworking says:

    Everything I have looked up only speaks of day/night double headers.

    This isnt one of those, so I am lost as to what can happen.

  22. JRay3 says:

    Yeah not sure I’m a huge fan of that if Glasnow is the price tag. I have never been a huge Charlie Morton fan, but I’m not sure Norris is a huge upgrade.

    Or does this signal the Pirates are worried about Cole’s increased inning count?

  23. Jandy says:

    New comers and lurkers, we want to chat with you!
    If you post your hometown, Bizrow will add it to the list of Dejan’s Lunatics’ Asylum.
    Don’t be shy, we don’t bite! :)

  24. theplanisworking says:

    Hippos cant write, Jandy.

    But I will gladly give you a Mallo Cup. ;)

  25. Lad9 says:

    By the way Hipposter, Hippo Vaughn was a very good pitcher who is famous for throwing the only double nine inning no hitter with Fred Toney of the Giants. Hippo lost it in the 10th and the winning run was driven in by the immortal Jim Thorpe. And he was only listed at 215 pounds!

  26. Dom says:

    #1 50 UNDER!!!

    #2 50 OVER!!!


  27. theplanisworking says:

    I did not know this.

    Thanks Radical One.

  28. radio wave says:

    at playoffs: Headed for the ballpark in about 2 hours. My wife the Cards fan is wearing her Cards gear. Will be an interesting day. I take 50 on 1 win. I bet 100 on the under for line 2. I bet 100 on the over for line 3. If they lose both, I’m on the sofa.

  29. Jandy says:

    make that two, with hoof prints ;)

  30. War Horse says:

    100 ducats on Total Wins = 2

    Line #1 = UNDER

    Line #2 = OVER

    Muchos gracias.

  31. mcpitt88 says:

    Idk if Aj leaves… said prior to season that he would like to sign with pirates or retire

  32. Jandy says:

    Rad Lad! hey, how is the beach today?

  33. Nate83 says:

    They can like him all they want. There is no way that Norris is traded for Glasnow. The only pitcher that should have his name attached to Glasnow is Cliff Lee. If they don’t instantly slot into the Pirates top 3 pitchers then why would we give up anything of value.

    NH is very high on Glasnow. His commments are glowing about the kid. Maybe Kingman who I don’t think they are as high on but is still a good prospect.

  34. theplanisworking says:

    We heart lurkers. :D

  35. Lad9 says:

    Please no Norris here unless it is a trophy for a Pens defenseman.

  36. JRay3 says:

    As long as the twin bill is scheduled a day or more in advance teams can add a 26th man, it was built into the new basic agreement. The 24 hour rule was attached so the home team did not have advantage of getting somebody with a closer affiliate usually.

  37. theplanisworking says:

    HA! :D

  38. Jandy says:


  39. TK says:

    Line 1 – Strikeouts 8.5 – 100 on the UNDER
    Line 2 – Home Runs 1.5 – 100 on the OVER
    Special (# of Wins) – No Pick

  40. Jandy says:


  41. theplanisworking says:

    Good to know.
    I knew about the 24 hour window, I knew about day/nights…………….. could not find anything about regular dh’s.

  42. Nate83 says:

    I have heard that as well but I can’t imagine he plays that much longer and pitching depth is always a good thing.

  43. theplanisworking says:

    Good thing I am already on the list.
    Hippos are too big to lurk.

    Sort of like Zagurski.

  44. JohninOshkosh says:

    Quick !! Someone get out to the Charleston, WV airport now !!!

  45. Jandy says:


  46. JRay3 says:

    Brewer GM Bob Melvin has come out and said they are not trading Aoki. So scratch him off the wish list.

  47. pattonbb says:

    Special pick ‘em – 100 on 1

    Line 1 – 100 UNDER
    Line 2 – 100 UNDER

  48. Lad9 says:

    Line 1 – 1 win
    Line 2 – under
    Line 3 – over

    All for 100. Thank you Playoffs. Go Buccos x 2!

  49. theplanisworking says:

    Or Wandy having a setback.

  50. JohninOshkosh says:

    Thanks, JRay and Milo. Appreciate it.

  51. JRay3 says:

    Interesting fact, Pirates and Rockies were first to take advantage of this rule in a twi-night DH in 2012.

  52. Milo Hamilton says:

    Oh the prospect love is hot and heavy right now.

  53. JohninOshkosh says:


  54. SeanAY says:

    Not at all excited about the possibility of Bud Norris for this season, unless we think the AL is the reason is ERA is around 4.00 (3.93, to be exact).

    The only positive I can think of is that he would be under control through 2016. They might be looking at this as a way to replace Burnett entering next year.

  55. Jandy says:

    sounds sticky…

  56. pattonbb says:

    Make a trade!!! Just don’t trade anyone!!!!

  57. theplanisworking says:

    How are things up in Brewer land?

    They sure are a hot mess, eh?
    Cant say I am disappointed in that, either.

  58. Milo Hamilton says:

    They teach it in the schools now you know.

  59. NMR says:

    Hahaha, perfect summation of the last two weeks on the blog.

  60. theplanisworking says:

    Good point.

    Would this trade classify as a “panic move”?

  61. War Horse says:

    This will be the fastest, best-fielding OF of the season. Presley and Cutch can cover the gap at both ends. I’d like to see Alex settle in there, maybe with Tabby playing against LHP. Against LHP, Presley bats .143; against RHP it’s .316.

  62. PirateFaninGA says:

    I hope that they do not trade Glasnow for Norris. I agree with Nate83 that maybe Kingman.

    However, if it does happen the logic is for control through 2015. My guess is take out Cole or Morton for now, but in 2014 he would replace Morton (last year of arbitration eligibility) and then still be under control for 2015.

    The front 4 of the 2015 rotation becomes Cole, Locke, Norris, and JT. That is the only way I can possibly think why NH wants Norris. He replaces Morton with someone under control for 2 more years instead of 1. And adds depth for this year especially if Wandy doesn’t make it back.

  63. NMR says:

    Haha, no, but certainly underwhelming.

  64. theplanisworking says:

    Those Pirates……….. always out in front! ;)

  65. JRay3 says:

    well put!

  66. War Horse says:

    That’s 100 each on Lines #1 & 2.

  67. Lad9 says:

    You r very welcome. I actually knew most of what I wrote (other than the Jim Thorpe part) because my mind stores useless facts but cant remember a name 30 seconds after an intro. And Jandy the beach is gorgeous. Can’t wait to see the Rays vs Dbacks though.

  68. Dom says:

    Stolmy is kicking butt why is Cumpton getting the start?

  69. Lad9 says:

    You r very welcome. I actually knew most of what I wrote (other than the Jim Thorpe part) because my mind stores useless facts but I cant remember a name 30 seconds after an intro. And Jandy the beach is gorgeous. Can’t wait to see the Rays vs Dbacks though.

  70. NMR says:

    Except that by, allegedly, trading Glasnow for him removes a pitcher that would be starting in 2015…and five more years after that.

    Makes absolutely no sense unless it improves the team right now.

  71. NMR says:

    Hurdle’s middle name, Experience.

  72. JohninOshkosh says:


  73. cmat0829 says:

    lets go 100 each:

    1. 1 WIN (split the DH, hard to sweep those)
    2. OVER (hope I’m wrong but Bucs K a lot)
    3. OVER (Cutch and Tony Sanchez go deep)

  74. Joey Mellons says:

    Special PIck em line. 100 bucket hats on buccos winnning 2 games.
    Line 1, 100 pumpkins jacks on the under
    LIne 2, 100 stone crabs on the under.
    Two wins is twice as nice. Go get em bucs. Raise it.

  75. theplanisworking says:

    Oh, trust me, I am underwhelmed by all this.

    Still 26 hours to go.
    we’ll see.

    Wonder how much the lack of compensation picks is affecting the trade market?

  76. SeanAY says:

    I don’t think so, if only because you can claim the additional three years of control on Norris.

    A panic move, at least to me, would be more like trading a Taillon or a Polanco for Rios. That would be a situation where the desire to add a piece outweighs the value.

    I’m not much of a prospect watcher, but I know Glasnow is highly valued. That said, it seems like more of a move for the future with a proven product than a prospect. And (gulp)…I think Huntington deserves some benefit of the doubt when going after pitchers.

    (Good Lord, it hurt to type that.)

    Where it COULD be a panic move, to me, is that it doesn’t make THIS team better.

  77. PirateFaninGA says:

    If the rumors are true, it has to be for the control. Liriano gone after next year, Wandy may pick up the option but only for one more year.

    If they pull the trigger…then Liriano, Cole, Locke, Norris, and Wandy? next year with JT waiting at AAA.

    2015 looks like Cole, Locke, Norris, JT, and insert NH reclamation project here.

    Still don’t like it unless you truly believe Norris is better today through end of year than Charlie and/or Cole. You could still trade for a Norris type in the offseason if AJ goes and Wandy doesnt seem healthy.

  78. Jandy says:

    +many good job you two ;)

  79. JRay3 says:

    Good morning to the window from the left coast. Great day for baseball and the opportunity to retake fist place by day’s end. On to the lines.

    50 on 1 win (Vegas has the Bucs as -140 favorites in G1 and Cards as -115 favorites in G2)

    Line 1 – 50 on the UNDER

    Line 2- 100 on the UNDER

    Thanks and Let’s Go Bucs!

  80. theplanisworking says:

    More good points.

    And……………….. this team needs a bat more than pitching, anyway.

  81. PirateFaninGA says:

    Is Norris under control through 15 or 16? Doesn’t make much of a difference for Pirates contending window, but I read 15. Still one more year than Morton.

  82. That’s a bad trade I hope they don’t make.

  83. JohninOshkosh says:

    Have a great time, RW. Hope your wife has a good time, as well.

  84. PirateFaninGA says:

    I agree. Although 2015 might be a bit early for someone in Low A. 2016 seems more probable especially considering the speed at which the Pirates move HS prospects along in the minors. But you could find a guy to fill in the back part of the rotation for a few years once AJ, Liriano, and Wandy $ are off the books.

    Kingman, maybe, but not Glasnow…I was just trying to think through NH’s rationale for the move.

  85. SeanAY says:

    And hey, if you want to get real silly…maybe you turn around and trade Norris before the deadline tomorrow.

    Now I must really be losing my mind. But if you think about it…you now have a chip if you want it, and a player if you don’t.

  86. Jandy says:

    Ya gotta get on the KISS cam ;)

  87. cmat0829 says:

    LHP going for STL in Game 2… I expect the Bucs to go with Tabata in RF, Mercer at 2B, Gaby at 1B and Tony behind the plate…something like:

    Marte LF
    Tabata RF
    Cutch CF
    Gaby 1B
    Pedro 3B
    Mercer 2B
    Sanchez C
    Barmes SS

    If the lineup weren’t so weak in terms of power, I’d say if the Bucs won game 1 they might sit Pedro also and give JayHey a start but not sure they can afford to lose the power.

  88. Jandy says:

    enjoy it all, Rad Lad, and have a drink for me!

  89. SeanAY says:

    You’re correct. I mis-read Baseball Reference. When it says you’re a free agent in 2016, they mean starting in the winter of 2015.

    So he would only be a two-year add.

  90. PirateFaninGA says:

    I like creativity. Don’t know if NH is that creative though. Two years of control does give the team flexibility. Or just get in on some multi team deal that gets you what you really need….a bat.

  91. Lad9 says:

    + a whole bunch Lucky. Awful trade.

  92. SeanAY says:

    Dave Kaplan tweet:

    Sounds like White Sox and Pirates are getting close on a deal for Alex Rios. Cash being worked on. Not sure if they can find a middle ground.

  93. Chico says:


    Special Pick ‘Em Line
    50 on 2 (DOUBLE ODDS)

    Game #1 Line
    100 on the over

    Game #2 Line
    100 on the under

  94. JohninOshkosh says:

    Is it really “Years of Control” Eve again ?

    My how the time flies. It seems just like yesterday when i was buying a “Years of Control” gift for Travis Snider.

  95. NMR says:

    Ugh, I never understood the whole comp pick process in the first place!

  96. Excellent and true.

  97. NMR says:

    “…I was just trying to think through NH’s rationale for the move.”

    You poor, poor soul. :)

  98. Hope they can’t.

  99. theplanisworking says:

    Me either, but I saw a blurb about it somewhere………. so I was just a little curious.

    Especially since neal is known to love prospects (although he did deal a comp pick in the Gaby trade.)

  100. TCB says:

    Better win game 1. I am concerned that Cumpton will get lit up by the Cards.

  101. Damon says:

    I’m not sure bringing in Norris helps much at all this year or next. The Pirates also have the option to start Justin Wilson or Bryan Morris next year if need be. I think Morton and Cole help as much as Norris right now.

  102. NMR says:

    Neal never saw a prospect he didn’t like…except that Bautista guy.

  103. theplanisworking says:

    Dont remind us…………………….

  104. Bizrow says:

    100 on the sweep

    100 on under, line 1
    100 on over line 2

    Thanks Playoffs

  105. SeanAY says:

    I’d prefer a Years of Control move to a rental. I know it’s fashionable to bash the Pirates for seeking it as opposed to the best players on the market, but the rentals market is crap this year. If you’re going to have to give up assets regardless, you might as well get something you can keep after this year.

  106. theplanisworking says:

    Hello Preacher Man!

    Get on the phone and nix this deal? ;)

  107. PirateFaninGA says:

    Lol. Well, I am only occasionally wander into this asylum. The last few days before the trade deadline for a contending team will do it to any baseball fan.

  108. Milo Hamilton says:

    Do you open your gifts on Years of Control Eve, or Years of Control Day ?

  109. Nate83 says:

    It is almost the same exact move they made for Wandy last year with the exact same team. Glasnow would be way to much. Kingman and another prospect in the 15-30 range would make sense if they don’t plan on bringing AJ back. Otherwise it doesn’t do much for this years team. It makes them marginally better if at all. Team ERA 3.1, Norris ERA 3.93.

  110. 21sthebest says:

    I like the idea of getting someone who’s under control through next year at least for right field and then it should be time for Polanco.

  111. theplanisworking says:

    Only after drinking the spiked eggnog.

  112. Bizrow says:

    Re Rios, the more cash the White Sox eat, the more and better prospects are dealt for him

    Sometimes the best moves are the ones you do not make

    Just sayin

  113. Milo Hamilton says:

    I’d prefer the best player they can get. Let’s start with Cliff Lee & work backwards.

  114. cmat0829 says:

    My view on Norris rumors:

    He’s a solid MAJOR LEAGUE pitcher who we’d also control for 2 more seasons… remember also how the Searage magic works…I have every confidence he’d improve in the Pirates rotation so not looking too much at his 2013 ERA…

    Glasnow is years away from being a major league pitcher… no doubt he has a high ceiling, but a lot can happen along the way… pitching is also where we have prospect depth……

    Again, I don’t know if the deal will indeed be Glasnow for Norris, but I am OK with the move even if it is. I don’t LOVE it, but it is a pretty sane move… pitching depth is very, very key…. they can bump Morton to the ‘pen or give Cole a few starts off down the stretch….

  115. SeanAY says:

    Just read an ESPN article titled, “Do Not Trade for Bud Norris.”

    Basically, it says two things that would be pretty damning:

    1) Lefties tee off on him to the tune of a .300/.365/.494. Yikes.

    2) His home run / fly ball ratio is 6.9, the sixth-lowest in the majors. Unsustainable, and likely to be exacerbated by the move to PNC Park where – you guessed it – left-handed hitters can aim for the short porch.

    3) He has a 4.95 ERA against teams not called the LA Angels, a team that – you guessed it – is filled primarily with RIGHT-HANDED power.

  116. theplanisworking says:

    So, this is one deal you dont want to Go Like 60 on?

  117. SeanAY says:

    And I just noticed I typed three things. Must be that John Carroll education.

  118. Dom says:

    Looks like it will happen.

  119. Nate83 says:

    Wow. That may happen but the young man played really well in his other two starts. The Cards are good but even the best offensive teams only score about 1 run more a game then other middle of the pack offensive teams. They all have major league hitters and he proved he is capable of getting major league hitters out.

  120. Milo Hamilton says:

    Something else to take into account when we wonder about some of the names being thrown around. Suspensions are coming. We don’t know all the names but the GM’s probably do.

  121. JRay3 says:

    CH said yesterday that Pedro was going to sit against the Cards LHP, so I would expect JHay in game two.

  122. Dom says:

    Let’s take on the contract to keep the prospects.

    As long as Glasnow, Polanco, and Taillon are here, I’m happy.

  123. Bizrow says:

    I’m not sure on Rios, and depends on what we give up for him and how much he’s going to impact next seasons payroll

  124. theplanisworking says:

    Good point. I heard Thursday at the latest, except for A-Fraud. That one is a bit more complicated.

  125. theplanisworking says:

    Rios would be underwhelming, to say the least.

    I like your thinking.

  126. theplanisworking says:

    Rios would be underwhelming, to say the least.

    I like your thinking.

  127. Dom says:

    Do we really need Morris? He’d be nice to have but for GLasnow… I really don’t see him as much of an improvement over Morton and come playoff time I think we’ll run with a 3-4 man rotation anyways.

  128. Nate83 says:

    That is all great and if the trade if made for future pitching stregth for the next two years that also makes sense but how does it make the Pirates a stronger team in the playoffs this year. We have established that it is likely they make the playoffs the only question is division winner or wild card. Does Norris make us that much better to believe he is the difference in a title or wild card. In my opinino Cliff Lee could be that difference but not Norris. I would not give up Glasnow for a guy who may not even be good enough to be in our top 4 starters to pitch in a long playoff series.

  129. blazer says:

    I’ll take the 2 line for wins today for 100.
    I’ll take the over for the strikeouts (come on its the Pirates!) for 100.
    I’ll take the under for the HRs in the second game for 100.

  130. Nate83 says:

    OH NO!!!!!!! We are trading for Matt Morris again???? That would be the worse day ever.

  131. T.S. says:

    Rios is the wrong player to get. Weak.

  132. theplanisworking says:

    Mr. Playoffs…………..

    May I have the following?

    50 Hippos on ONE victory.
    50 Hippos on the OVER.

    0 Hippos on line 3………. I have no idea who will be playing in the game, so i will respectfully pass.

    Thanks for all this.

  133. Nate83 says:

    Been there done that. Cumpton did everything you could expect in his first few outings. Stolmy could have the wheels fall off. He has had it happen a few times in AA and AAA this year. It’s just safer.

  134. Bizrow says:

    It will be real interesting to see how this plays out. Do you pull a Braun and fess up and take the punishment this year or do you appeal and if you lose, miss part of next season?

    And a guy like Nelson Cruz, he’s a free agent after the season.

    Some folks have put themselves in quite a pickle

  135. The Gunner says:

    I hear Rios is a malingerer, we don’t need that here

  136. Dom says:

    In regards to Norris, the O’s have to make an offer.

  137. NMR says:

    Please stop by more often.

    All who wander are not lost, but we most certainly are. :)

  138. The Gunner says:

    I hear he is trouble

  139. radio wave says:

    If this has not been posted already, there are a number of Twitter reports that the Pirates and W socks are close on the deal for Alex Rios.

  140. Dom says:

    I understand that he is not ideal but there are few options left.

  141. NMR says:

    Norris at his best has never been better than Wandy at his worst.

    There is absolutely no way Huntington makes this trade.

    Passan needs to do his homework.

  142. cmat0829 says:

    Wow, got to love it… most folks think the Bucs MUST pick up help for RF but many are absolutely panning a Rios pickup without even knowing what the cost is…. I understand there may be players in RF some would prefer, but with Aoki ruled out, who else really is there? Schierholtz is one option, for sure…. and then who??

    The market is what it is… the Bucs likely can’t win with the production they are getting from RF as it stands now… and no, folks, Presley and Lambo aren’t the answer…nor is Snider and Tabata….all of those have a lot to prove to be ‘slightly below average’ options, and the Bucs need slightly above average ……

    Read that Sox ‘won’t necessarily get a highly regarded prospect’ in return for Rios…if that is the case, then this will be a great trade….. if we give up too much, then we may regret it next year and beyond but hopefully he is enough this year to push us over the top.

    This is where Neal’s thick skin will come in handy…. “make a move, go for it, prospects are overrated”….”don’t you dare trade any of our top 20 precious prospects”…”anything less than Cliff Lee is underwhelming”… “stand pat, don’t overpay”…. we are anything if clear on what we want….

  143. Jandy says:

    Once you’re sucked in, PiratesfaninGA, you’re doomed ;)

  144. cmat0829 says:

    If a player is ‘team-oriented’, he appeals and faces the consequences in the offseason.. .I’d expect that to be the norm. If a player takes the suspension in a pennant race only to preserve his FA value, other GMs will not like that he isn’t team-first and that will impair the value.

  145. NMR says:

    He’s Charlie Morton right now, and thats without the homerun regression or good stuff.

    No more than a reliever on a championship club.

  146. Thundercrack says:

    Saw in mltr that an agent said that next year is very thin/weak in regards to free agent pitching.

  147. NMR says:

    I agree, TCB.

    Stolmy is the better pitcher.

  148. Stuart says:

    Playoffs, I’ll wager 100 each on:

    Special – Bucs to win 2
    Line 1 – Pirates will be over 8.5 SOs
    Line 2 – Pirates hit more than 1.5 HRs (over)

    BTW the link goes to the standings on the 29th. I won two yesterday night to go to 0!


  149. Bizrow says:

    I’ve never been to Indianapolis, but from what I read, he does not hustle all the time.

    For me, thats enough of a red flag to say no thanks

  150. The Gunner says:

    that is really a good idea

  151. T.S. says:

    John Perrotto is reporting there have been discussions around Peavy and A. Ramirez for Taillon, Dickerson and another prospect. If that goes down, it would be the WORST trade in Pirates history. And Neal should be fired.

  152. Bizrow says:

    Yup, but either way, the value of the player is tarnished, don’t you think?

  153. JRay3 says:

    The question becomes if Rios is the RF that is “available”, would you rather move to acquire him or would you rather team stand still and ride with Tabata, Snider, Presley?

    I agree with your assessment that the market is what it is, we all would love other players but if they are not available there is nothing NH can do, it takes two side to want to make a deal.

  154. NMR says:

    Bahaha, fired?

    For trading one good prospect for a top rotation starter and major league shortstop?

    Everyone grab your nearest prospect and hold them tight!

  155. Dom says:

    Yeah, no thanks. We need hitting. Plus, how much of an improvement is Ramirez over Mercer? I believe Mercer has a higher OBP anyways.

  156. cmat0829 says:

    not as long as horrible GMs like the one in toronto are willing to give the likes of Melky Cabrera multiyear contracts post suspension

  157. Milo Hamilton says:

    It sucks that since DK left the beat we have to rely on national writers or media from the other cities involved for word on trades.

    DK: And I, on the other hand, am delighted to not have to make the five zillion phone calls and emails and all else that went into these couple of days in the past.

    Writing columns comes with its own set of annoyances, but this, thankfully, isn’t among them. :)

  158. Eric Bowser says:

    Going to say this very clearly….

    If I trade Jameson Taillon, it isn’t for some package to acquire Jake Peavy, Alexei Ramirez and Alex Rios. I want a star like Carlos Gonzalez, Joe Mauer, Jay Bruce or Troy Tulowitzki.

    Which means, I won’t be trading him.

  159. cmat0829 says:

    Put it this way…if the Bucs ‘stand still’ and the RF production of Snider/Tabby/Presley and/or having Gaby play 1B vs. RHPs and Jones play RF…if the production continues to be worst in the league and the Bucs fall short of the playoffs….and/or lost in the wildcard play-in game…. would you still think it was right to stand pat and preserve all of your prospects??

    I tend to want to roll the dice with Rios being the answer, try to keep the price tag as low as we can, and go on offense… if it doesn’t work, then at least you can say you picked up the best available player (if you think that) and gave it a try……

    If we do nothing and Collapse III commences, the fanbase with torch the FO, Hurdle gets fired, and we start all over again.

  160. T.S. says:

    NMR, what’s laughable is that you apparently think that’s a good trade. A major league shortstop? Yeah, barely. Jake Peavy? Good for the moment. But old, and yet another injury waiting to happen.

  161. Thundercrack says:

    You lost me at: John Perrotto is reporting


  162. Irish says:

    I’ll take Over (8.5 strikeouts) on the Game #1 line (unfortunately)
    and Under (1.5 home runs) on the Game #2 line (also unfortunately)
    Still feel good about the games, though… Let’s Go Bucs!
    Thanks, Playoffs!

  163. cmat0829 says:

    wow, the Rangers must have fired Jon Daniels after the Garza trade, right?? or is he still employed??

    Not saying I want to trade Taillon either, but Peavy is the hot pitching veteran available now, and whomever gets him will deal someone that looks like their “taillon”.

  164. T.S. says:

    Try telling NMR that. ;)

  165. Thundercrack says:


  166. Irish says:

    Sorry, forgot my bets: 50 on each line, Thanks!

  167. NMR says:

    Good gravy, I could not agree more.

    Just to recap, guys, the Pirates will soon be acquiring two starting pitchers a right fielder and a shortstop.

    Makes sense, right?

  168. cmat0829 says:

    agreed, but I’m thinking that NH is not a ‘source’ like other GMs are, so not sure how much our local reporters would get from this end…. but yes, would be nice to have a ‘fly on the wall’ locally…..

    the other day, Clint pretty much laid it out there….he and Neal talk trades a lot, and Clint gave him a prioritized list… not sure I heard much follow-up on what the priorities are, who is on the list, who might be available, our view of prospects vs. help now, etc….

    DK: The GM is not forthcoming about trades beforehand, not with the local guys and not with the national. But the Pirates do have holes that can be used to gain such information. Every team does.

  169. NMR says:

    Laughable is assumming I think that is a good trade.

    I do not.

    But it isn’t even in the realm of a fireable offense. Pay attention around the league.

    And let me take one guess as to how many games you’ve actually seen Alexei Ramirez play…

  170. Nate83 says:

    I heard we are trading our entire minor league system for the current Chicago White Sox team because they have been doing so great this year.

  171. NMR says:

    I have absolutely no problem with Eric’s opinion.

  172. Eric Bowser says:

    Hey NMR… please DO NOT tell me you think Taillon is worth anything less than a number one starter or run producing #3/4 hitter?

  173. Frankie says:

    100 on each

    Line 1. 2

    Line 2. Under

    Line 3 over

  174. NMR says:

    I don’t mean to speak for Milo, mostly because I wish he did it for me, but I want DK on the beat not for his inside info but his logic and professionalism.

    Passan and these other schmucks have never heard a whisper they haven’t pimped all over as breaking news.

    Absolutely zero credibility.

    DK: In general, NMR, I feel very, very strongly about info when it comes from Ken Rosenthal, less so of most others. Ken’s amazing. The guy must check in with all 30 teams on a daily basis.

    Other guys are better at other things than Ken, but this is Ken’s time to shine. He’s the best at trades.

    When I was on the beat, I was most concerned that Ken would beat me, more than anyone local or national.

  175. Eric Bowser says:

    Oh good… because I didn’t want to have to track you down and read one of my War & Peace “blog posts” to you, I hear the CIA enjoys using them at their black sites or was that Drew wishing he could do it.

  176. cmat0829 says:

    The blog is on fire again… thanks again guys for making this ‘the place to be’ ….. so much fun.

    If you step back (and I know it’s hard when you are on the ledge ready to jump) and think about this, the Bucs are making tremendous progress. From a perennially losing organization with no minor league prospect pipeline and being the laughingstock around the league…to being right in a pennant race with a stocked prospect pipeline …. now we get a seat at the ‘real major league baseball table’, my friends….

    And guess what? Around this time, teams that are in the race do indeed trade their good prospects, sometimes their TOP prospects, to pick up the right pieces they hope will push them over the finish line and into being a real threat to win a world series…and they usually overpay a little bit to do so…..

    I know this fan base is a bit out of practice for being true ‘buyers’ in this environment, but fasten your seat belts….. in 2011 and 2012, NH pretty much prioritized his top prospects and picked up less than the impact players he needed to push the Bucs over the top…. and he was pretty much railed for it, including by the core players….

    I can’t see him doing that again… his job depends on it not happening again….

    Now, in full disclosure, I tend to be a ‘prospect hoarder’, and I’m nervous we will let a top one go for something that feels underwhelming… but I’d MUCH rather that happen then another ‘stand pat’ deadline and to ‘take our chances’ with what we have… not sure I can accept that.

  177. Jandy says:

    OK Special line…100 units on 1 win

    Game Line #1… 100 units on the under

    Game Line #2 … 100 units on the under

    Tough lines, Mr. Playoffs! But appreciate all you do :)

  178. PirateFaninGA says:

    Other White Sox players have been mentioned in trade talks with other teams. Does make you think about why so many players traded away for such a bad team.

    Their SS seems like a risk. The Mercer/Barmes deal seems to be working right now. And I dont think you give up the farm for Jake Peavy.

    Rios is an ok upgrade if you give up moderate prospect and take on as much cash as you can. Flip him in the offseason to make up some of the package given up. Presley and Tabata can platoon for April – June until GP is ready. My guess is Pirates wouldn’t be willing to make qualifying offer anyway after 2014 out of risk he might accept it.

  179. Nate83 says:

    This is correct in my opinion. You can add Glasnow and Polanco to that as well. Those 3 should not be used in a trade that marginally makes the Pirates better even if we are getting two player in return. This year if it’s not Cliff Lee or Stanton (who is not even on the block) then those names should not be mentioned. I imagine they have only been mentioned by other GM’s and not our own.

  180. cmat0829 says:

    Eric, I don’t disagree on the surface…the Bucs have $6M or so invested in Taillon and he is a top tier pitching prospect…but what else do you think we’d have to include to make a respectable offer for Tulo or Cargo or Mauer or whomever… wouldn’t it need to be Taillon plus Polanco plus 2 other players just for table stakes?

  181. Thundercrack says:

    Brian Wilson signs with the Dodgers

  182. Naje says:

    When is it time to seriously think about extending Liriano? Soon…? End of season? Sometime in the winter after you shop him a bit in a bid for a bat or a long-term SS?

  183. T.S. says:

    NMR, I live in Chicago (a Pittsburgher first). I’ve watched Ramirez play many times. He’s got 1 HR. And this is his AVG/OBP/SLUG/OPS:


    Now, what was it you were saying?

  184. Bizrow says:

    The latest ahem “rumor” I read is that Peavy will not be moved.

    Of course that came along with a advertisement on some prime swamp land in Jersey ;-)

  185. 21sthebest says:

    Minor league deal.

  186. Jason says:

    Would you sent Tallion and Polanco, along with a couple of low-level guys, for Giancarlo Stanton? That might blow the Marlins away with an offer they can’t refuse.

  187. Nate83 says:

    Garza and Peavy are not even in the same league. Peavy 2008 maybe but not this version of Peavy. He’s a gamer but he slot’s in as our number 4 starter at best.

  188. T.S. says:

    And 26 RBI in 416 ABs.

  189. pattonbb says:

    Thank You

  190. Bizrow says:

    Dam, I was kinda hoping that one would come through for us.

  191. Rios is Derek Bell without the boat!

  192. Dom says:


  193. Sisyphus says:

    Hope not. I don’t see the need for Norris at all. He’s not an improvement over any of the five current starters, Wandy, or Jeanmar.

  194. Jim S. says:

    Chuck Yeager Airport, I believe. Interesting takeoffs there.

  195. T.S. says:

    But he sure does love A. Ramirez. He of the 1 HR, 26 RBI in 416 ABs, and a slash line of:


  196. JohninOshkosh says:

    Thanks for that reply, Dejan. I will ply closer attention to Ken in the future in these regards because of your comment.

  197. JohninOshkosh says:


  198. Bizrow says:

    You know, as a Pirates fan, you can’t ask for much more than this. Big series, pennant race coming, and trade deadline.

    Just sayin

  199. A better amen. Nix it, bro.

  200. Groaty to the rescue. Sanity is restored, thank God.

  201. Dom says:

    If Rios does come here, how well do you all feel he’ll at PNC?

  202. JohninOshkosh says:

    Of course he does.

  203. Thanks for that response, Dejan!

    DK: Thanks for being Groat, Groat. Your email earlier this summer helped more than I’ll ever feel comfortable admitting.

  204. Eric Bowser says:

    I don’t think Marlins deal will ever happen and I’m not dealing Taillon unless it would be something like Taillon, Tabata, and Dickerson for Stanton. Marlins probably wouldn’t do it.

  205. Jandy says:

    Enjoy it :)

  206. Milo Hamilton says:


    Just know that your efforts were truly appreciated on those days. And they still are, of course.

    DK: Thanks, Milo, but as you might have gathered, I’m not the looking-back type. That was an important — necessary, even — step in the career, but I was never going to be a lifer on the beat. Not a great match for an obsessive personality. Becomes all-consuming.

    It’s funny, too, that I feel like I’ve been much, much more accepted as a columnist by football and hockey fans than by some on the baseball end, maybe because of the sentiment that you’re describing or maybe because they genuinely think I suck or don’t know baseball or hate the Pirates or whatever.

    At any rate, it’s been wonderful dealing with football and hockey fans, even when they’re furious with me, if only because there isn’t that same baggage.

    Not sure if any of that will make sense to you.

  207. Sisyphus says:

    Rios is currently pretty much the same hitter as Tabata right now. I don’t see him as any kind of improvement outside of OF depth, so I wouldn’t give up much to get him.

  208. T.S. says:

    I think I just heard a pin drop. ;)

  209. Milo Hamilton says:

    The Mystery Team. Sort of.

  210. PirateFaninGA says:

    General question for anyone who is “plugged-in” to Pirates minor league stuff. Why has Dickerson played RF for Altoona all year? The guy lit up high A and after a slow start is lighting up AA. Jones is getting expensive and is not showing signs that we should retain him beyond next year (or this year if we get a lefty platoon partner for Gabby that is cheaper). Dickerson was drafted as a 1B from Indiana with a solid glove. If he is not moved in some crazy NH deal, isn’t he your 1B at some point next summer? Gap power with the lefty stroke to get it over or off the wall with consistency.

  211. Jason says:

    Everyone has their price. They could put together a nice package for him. You’re right about throwing in Tabata too, for the salary dump.

  212. Jim S. says:

    Knew that would happen. He’s a west coast guy, and the Dodgers have all that stupid TV money that the Pirates couldn’t seem to negotiate.

  213. Nate83 says:

    Rosenthal was the one that said last night that the Pirates would not be including Polanco, Taillon or Glasnow in any trade for Rios. He pretty much said the Pirates know what they are willing to give up and probably would not budge. He was on MLB Network last night and was little rough around the edges from an on camera standpoint but the other panelist really seemed to defer to him when it came to trade information.

  214. Melvin issaying Aoki won’t be traded, so that probably means he’ll go and the price is now higher.

    Isn’t that GM speak?

  215. NMR says:

    You still haven’t looked at where that ranks among other shortstops, have you?

    It ain’t ’98 anymore, chief.

  216. Nate83 says:

    Now is the right time but I can’t imagine he or his agent would be interested. He could be in line for a very large contract if this continues and at 30 next year a 6 year deal with 30 teams in play looks a lot better then a 2 year extension.

  217. I liked him better when he was with the Beach Boys than with the Giants, anyway.

  218. pattonbb says:

    I’d be blown away if they deal Aoki. But he sure would look good wearing a Bucco Jersey.

  219. NMR says:

    Better ice your hammies after making that stretch.

  220. JohninOshkosh says:

    Wow. Good stuff, Dejan.

  221. You da man, DK!

    I’m almost ready to overlook that spotted white ball fetish you have.


  222. pattonbb says:


  223. NMR says:

    Just asking, what makes Rios more likely to be traded than Aoki?

  224. Thundercrack says:

    Jim Bowden says that Wilson lives 15 minutes from Dodger stadium and is a west coast guy

  225. Bizrow says:


  226. PirateFaninGA says:

    My guess is Pitt will make him a qualifying offer at the end of 2014, which he will turn down. Doesn’t that get the team a decent comp pick?

  227. pattonbb says:

    Dial down the man-crush Groat. You’re talking gibberish.

  228. Dom says:

    I cant imagine that would happen. Aoki is making little, is under contract for years, and the Brew Crew would probably be reluctant to deal within the division.

  229. NMR says:

    I pretty much look like Brad Pitt…except for the hair, the face, and the body.

  230. cmat0829 says:

    One thought is the $18M he is owed through next year… Sox looking to rebuild in a big way and they could use some of that $$ … I don’t think Aoki will cost nearly that much.

  231. Thundercrack says:

    His contract is a lot less than Rios’

  232. Not Melvin talking, that’s for sure.

  233. The Gunner says:

    me too, Lucky / I knew he’d sign with Brooklyn

  234. Jim S. says:

    Wow! I had to take a break from here for a couple of hours and all heck broke loose! Actually, I have been following Twitter as well.

    I don’t see a Glasnow for Norris trade – not even for Chuck Norris … Well, ok, maybe for Chuck Norris. No one has told me this, but I believe the Pirates are very enamored with Tyler Glasnow, perhaps possibly even more than Taillon. I’m not saying Taillon is not a very high end talent, because he is. But, he did not dominate at any level like Glasnow is dominating A ball. The guy averages 12+ K’s per 9, guys are hitting .149 against him. He’s a 6’8″ man among boys at the moment. I realize he is several levels from MLB and anything can happen. I’m just saying that I don’t recall any Bucs pitchers dominating at any level at age 19 like this kid. He has some control issues, but he is improving there as well. He could blow up and be a complete bust. But, I don’t think the Pirates see it that way. So, I see no way he is traded for Bud Norris.

    As for Rios, if NH and CH really want him, they ought to tell BN to pony up and accept the $$ left on his contract to protect the prospects. If the asking price is Dickerson, I could live with it. ChiSox were asking for Taillon or Polanco as late as yesterday, apparently. That would be an absurd amount of talent for him.

    I still think the best play is to pair Tabby with a good lefty hitting RF – a la Schierholtz or Aoki. Aoki is not available, although I don’t know why – except that it is Milwaukee and they often make perplexing talent decisions. Since the Cubs have the smartest GM in the history of smart GMs – and I know this because ESPN and MLB tell me so all the time – Schierholtz likely won’t come even close to for fair trade value. So, if it is too tough to acquire a good lefty bat for RF, then I’d be ok with Rios + his contract for Dickerson and not much more. That means Tabby goes to Chicago with Dickerson or the bench, I guess. I don’t see the point of Tabby + Rios, but no lefty OF bat on the bench except maybe Elvis.

  235. Jandy says:

    Everyone here knows that hockey is my #1 sport and the Pens are my #1 passion. I look forward to coming to this blog every day and throwing in my two cents, and absorbing others information and opinions. And I’ve gotten back into the Pirates, largely due to friends on this blog….but also due to YOU, Dejan. Your opinions, your columns, your passion for sports in general are a huge magnet for people who love sports to come here and interact with you and with others.
    Don’t ever sell yourself short, man. Never.
    And don’t ever stop doing this. Please.

  236. T.S. says:

    Ranked? The numbers speak for themselves, chief. Ramirez is gar-bage.

  237. Derek Bell, Junior.

    Joggin’ George Hendrick.

    A very expensive Jose Tabata without the Clemente tattoo.

  238. Jim S. says:

    I wonder if Rios’ Contract is taken yet as a Twitter handle.

  239. NMR says:

    Wealth of information, you are.

  240. Milo Hamilton says:

    It does. One thing I’ve learned through the years being a consumer of your business is that whether you write or yodel, your level of contentment on the job comes through either on the page or through the airwaves. And I could cite many examples. like the former Voice of the Pirates for example. It became nearly impossible to listen to at the end.

    It’s apparent the new things you are doing agree with you, and therefore with your readers. Now get on the phone & get us scoops, now ! :)

  241. KenKopp says:

    In the words of the great Ernie Banks “It”s a beautiful day for a ballgame…let’s play two.” Let’s play two before a big crowd with playoff atmosphere and a chance to move into first. Man this is really fun and exciting.

    Time to fire up the grill and get the sausage, peppers and onions done. And then the beer bacon.

    Let’s WIN two!

    Go Bucs

  242. theplanisworking says:

    Maybe he will be like Bobby Church, with a good-looking wife? ;)

  243. Qualifying offer guarantees at least close to $14 Million for season.

    Pirates won’t be making any Qualifying offers.

  244. NMR says:

    So its only money?

    How does that help two rebuilding teams (owner not included)?

  245. Dom says:

    According to Jon Heyman of CBS, the deal is not close at this time for Rios.

  246. theplanisworking says:

    + a whole lot more than the goofs available at this trade deadline!

    Enjoy dinner!

  247. NMR says:

    They will if other teams are throwing 3+ year offers at him.

  248. Bizrow says:


    Ditto thoughts from here

  249. T.S. says:

    Poor NMR.

  250. Bizrow says:

    Don’t have a real answer, but it can’t hurt to be able to play both first and the OF?

  251. bman says:


    Special Line: 25 on 2 WINS
    Game 1 Line: 50 on UNDER
    Game 2 Line: 75 on UNDER


  252. John Lease says:


  253. Did you forget who the General Manager is?

    Did you forget who the parsimonious owner is?

    Anyway, it’s STOOPID to be talking about extensions mid-season of this pennant race at the Trading Deadline!

  254. Jim S. says:

    I read a very funny tweet about this deal, and it went something like this (paraphrasing):

    NH: “We want Rios.”

    Sox: “Ok, give us Taillon or Polanco or blank off.”

    NH: “You do know the deadline is tomorrow.”

    Sox: “Tell me about Dickerson.”

  255. Jim S. says:

    Rios makes a ton of scratch, and is not worth it.

  256. Bizrow says:

    I can see why the Brewers would not be willing to trade Akoi, he’s cheap and a decent player, those are the kind of guys you try to build your team around. I don’t think Milwaukee is ready to rebuild, they, like most clubs, probably think they can compete in 2014.

  257. John Lease says:

    How about the other Rios, Armando…

  258. The Gunner says:

    that might be a good thing, I don’t like what I am hearing about Rios not hustling etc.

  259. I won’t believe anything until I hear it on Bleacher Report!

    DK: Bleacher Report.

  260. Jim S. says:

    Sox are hemorrhaging $$. Attendance sucks. Yes, I had to verify the spelling of hemorrhaging. I was pretty sure of the 2 r’s before that h. But, that’s a tough one to spell.

  261. cmat0829 says:

    my guess is ownership will pocket the coin now during the lean years to offset perhaps going over the budget in future years… some ownerships do that, not sure about Sox. Or if the Sox are delusional, they could use the savings to pick up a FA.

  262. Jim S. says:

    I think you are correct, Biz. But, Milwaukee does some odd things. They seem to go back and forth on philosophy of how to build the team every year.

  263. John Lease says:

    Time to get worried about the game.

    Barmes=ugh, but at least he SHOULD only start one game. Despite his ‘hot’ month, he’s hitting a hefty .224 on the season.

    Since all the games count, you know.

  264. NMR says:

    Haha, made me laugh, but I’ll spare you from digging.

  265. cmat0829 says:

    um, me thinks the “rios is a bum” sentiment is a little overblown…. didn’t Marte show lack of hustle a few times this year….didn’t Cutch get removed from a game in 2011 I think for lack of hustle?

    I think we are making the ‘facts’ meet our opinions and that is ok, it’s a blog after all, but I’d prefer to be open minded…Rios has talent, and he is better than our RF group and that is a fact.

  266. 21sthebest says:

    Kumbaya my Lord, kumbaya….

  267. NMR says:

    Using homeruns and RBI to judge a shortstops value reminds me of using a .211 batting average to judge a catcher.

    Where have I seen that before???

  268. pattonbb says:

    Not sure what you mean. I just think Aoki would be part of Brewer’s long term plans. Rios? Not so much.

    I didn’t mean it as a vote in favor of anyone.

  269. cmat0829 says:

    good think the Barmes that is playing in July is playing today and not the one who played in April, eh?

  270. pattonbb says:

    or wikipedia

  271. JohninOshkosh says:

    Here’s a couple of thoughts. I follow the White Sox because I kinda like them and i follow the Brewers because I’m here.

    1. The Chicago Sun Times had an excellent article in the Sunday paper comparing the Cubs and Sox rebuilding strategies. The White Sox are confident that they have a good, young starting rotation, anchored by Sale, going forward. They believe they can move pitching at the deadline. I think they will move Peavy. I don’t think they are terribly interested in trading for pitching. So I think any deal would likely involve position player prospects going to the South Side.

    2. The Brewers organization is standing on its head. Wisconsin, especially rural Wisconsin, has a unique relationship with the professional teams here. It is very close-almost like the players are part of the family. Just look at the local ratings for the Bucks, Brewers and, especially, the Packers. It is not unusual for me to go to Mass, for example, and sit behind an entire family wearing Braun and Rodgers jerseys. This Braun thing has been seen as a complete betrayal by a beloved player on a respected organization. They have their top PR people speaking with local news. They are offering vouchers for games in August. They are running scared. Aoki is a popular player. I don’t think they move him because of that alone. As for other players, I don’t think they make a move to a team in the Central without significant fan backlash.

    And, Groat, Rios is a heckuva player. Graceful, underrated defensively. Has hit clutch home runs for both the White Sox and Puerto Rico National Team. Is consistently productive. And his “attitude problems” are overrated. He is not Derek Bell. So there.

  272. Dom says:

    His lack of hustle is not one of my concerns.

  273. cmat0829 says:

    Don’t you love this ‘reporting’ on trade rumors…. I know things can be fluid, but the Dbacks went from being ‘out on Peavy’ to ‘kicking the tires’ to “frontrunners’ in the course of about 2 hours….. Rios deal was ‘nearly done’ if Sox picked up substantial amount of contract to ‘not close at this time’.

    Red Sox are both ‘never gonna trade Bogeart’ and ‘headlining a package to acquire Lee with Bogeart’ and offering anything the Marlins want for Stanton….

    And none of this due to Bleacher Report… it’s all in the Starks-Gammons-Rosenthal-Morosi-Heyman-Olney-and some newspaper guys pipeline…..

    DK: Why put reporting in quotes?

    You do realize that different people will come up with different information?

    And that in some cases teams will deliberately throw out misdirection in hopes of moving the market in their favor?

    Also, and most important, trade situations DO CHANGE. It’s usually one GM talking to another. What’s true in one breath can change in the next.

    If you’re going to blame the guys who are actually working the phones to cobble together as much information as they can and share it with you in a prompt manner, then do yourself a favor and just completely tune them out and wait for the formal press releases in a couple days. I’ll appreciate their hard work.

  274. PirateFaninGA says:

    You can talk about the pennant race, trade deadline, and extensions at some point in the future at the same time. It’s called multi-tasking. Now actually getting something done here at work right now…questionable.

  275. 21sthebest says:

    If Jordy is being included in trade talks, I look for Barmes to start both.

  276. John Lease says:

    Justin Howard is a much worse fielder at both first and the outfield, and he wins the first base ‘job’ by default. He’d probably be killed by the first line drive hit to him in the outfield. Dickerson has shown he can really play a good first, so for that team might as well see how he does in the outfield.

    He’s much better than Howard in the outfield too, Only 1 error all year. Howard can catch a ball thrown to him, but has no range.

  277. John Lease says:

    Why must you taunt the gods of baseball? WHY?

  278. Milo Hamilton says:

    Now that makes me feel better about Rios. You, I trust.

  279. Nate83 says:

    All this talk almost made me forget that there is a game starting in 45 minutes.

  280. cmat0829 says:

    thanks john for some ‘perspective’ on Rios…somehow he has gone from the “top hitter available in the market” (from industry consensus) to a bum and a loser not worth a bag of balls (from the asylum torchbearers)…. I am looking for a reason but all I can come up with is that the Pirates front office is showing intense interest in acquiring him to replace the “hall of fame’ platoon we have in RF now.

  281. SeanAY says:

    It’s called a “hot streak.” Players go on them from time to time. You usually play the player on the “hot streak” until it ends.

    You’re right, the whole season counts. But why are you discounting the fact that he’s been hitting pretty well as of late?

  282. NMR says:

    I think it has more to do with the Matt Curry/Matt Hague logjam at 1B in Altoona and Indy.

  283. National Mart of Records,

    Not fair for you to use both logic AND numbers!!

  284. Milo Hamilton says:

    I saw that guy run right smack into Michael Cuddyer in a spring training game in Fort Myers.

    Cuddyer was settling under a pop up halfway between home & 1st right on the line. Rios had his head down and a la Lonnie Smith ran right into him. Crumbled like he hit a brick wall. Knocked him out cold. Cuddyer never budged & even caught the ball. That’s my most vivid memory of that stiff.

  285. pattonbb says:

    Good stuff, John. Didn’t Rios have a 6 hit game earlier this year?

  286. A1C McG says:

    Special 100 -1
    #1 100 – over
    #2 100- under

    probably putting myself in a huge hole but worth a shot

  287. Lad9 says:

    Oh man DK. Plus more than I got. You and many of the good villagers on this blog have taken my sporting enjoyment to a place off the charts. I am grateful, entertained, puzzled, enlightened and enraged sometimes all in a five minute span. And if that has been your goal, you have succeeded in spades. Thank you and as Jandy said, don’t stop!

  288. NMR says:

    Somebody break up this tea party.

  289. Jim S. says:

    I don’t know that it is a persistent problem, cmat. But, Rios was just taken out of a game LAST week for lack of effort. That is a bit of a red flag, at the very least.

    Marte did not hustle out one ground ball. But, aside from Cutch, who hustles more on the Bucs than Marte?

  290. John Lease says:

    Don’t put words in my mouth, please.

    Not discounting anything. His ‘hot’ streak gets him to .224.

    We aren’t talking Dave Parker here, more like Dale Berra on a heater.

  291. John Lease says:

    + 10 million

    Time to get worried about the GAME people. Gotta get the nerves out.

  292. NMR says:

    That is more information about Justin Howard than I’ve ever read in my life.

    PirateFaninGa, listen to this guy^.

  293. Jim S. says:

    Rios is a talented player, for sure. He has been up and down, though, throughout his career. I live here and watch the Sox as well. He has 12 HR, and comparing US Cellular to PNC, I don’t think that translates to “power bat.” Better power than Tabby, but not a power RH bat in our park.

    I still say the smart play is a lefty that hits righties well.

  294. PirateFaninGA says:

    I like it. Good stuff by John Lease.

    Makes sense. As long as playing a really good 1B is like riding a bike.

  295. cmat0829 says:

    DK, sorry, my ‘quotes’ (something I overuse in my posts) around reporting were not to blame the reporters who do a great job getting any information out of these ‘poker player’ GMs…but just to point out that you can’t get caught up in any one article or post in this crazy deadline time…. i.e. the blog has spent a ton of time hating on Rios and that deal may not even happen…..

    I love reading all this stuff, I’m a junkie, just amazed at how many 180 degree turns there are.

    DK: The goal of the reporter is to report the TALKS accurately, not to attempt to be “right” in the end if the trade “comes true.” It’s about the best info you have at the time you have it.

  296. NMR says:

    I just seem to be squarely in the minority in thinking that the Brewers are better off trading Aoki, and I don’t understand why. Especially in relation to Rios and the Sox.

    Anytime there are many other guys who know what they’re talking about disagreeing with me, I take it as a sign to sit back and listen.

  297. T.S. says:

    I’ll repeat from above, since you conveniently site only part of the evidence I supplied.

    Slash line, one of the truest measures of hitting:

    .281 Average
    .307 On Base Percentage
    .349 Slugging
    .656 OPS

    Don’t know about you, but a .349 slugging isn’t going to cut it. Not to mention the .656 OPS.

    Sorry NMR, you’re in the minority if you thing Ramirez is anything but a bench piece (barely).

  298. T.S. says:

    think* Ramirez…

  299. NMR says:

    Aoki is only under control for one more year, 2014, and wil hit free agency as a 33 year old.

  300. Stickyweb says:

    Playoffs, you know I’m a sucker for double odds so give me:

    100 on 2 wins today
    100 OVER game 1 line
    100 UNDER game 2 line


  301. NMR says:

    Hahaha, obvious response is obvious.

  302. Jim S. says:

    “Hey, who brought me into this?”
    – D. Berra

  303. SeanAY says:

    It certainly seems like you were. We’ll agree to disagree.

  304. NMR says:

    This is great John, especially the insight into the Brewers org.

    Much appreciated.

  305. Oshkosh b’Gosh,

    I was a BIG supporter of Rios when he was with the Blue Jays.
    And I loved it that the White Sox picked him up because I have supported the White Sox as my American League team since I lived in Iowa and listened to them on 670.

    However, too many times he doesn’t come to play. It’s not just once or twice. He is not a first year player like Starling Marte but an over 30 veteran.

    If there is one thing I CANNOT STAND, it’s someone who doesn’t give his all———in sports, in writing, in work, in life. In tiddlywinks!

    Rios is really, really talented. But I prefer he not become a Pirate.

    Derek Bell was very good the 1st Half of the season before he became a Pirate.
    Rios is Derek Bell without the boat!

  306. MadTurk says:

    How about someone with years of contact? (Coming to you from the the Netherlands).

  307. Jim S. says:

    Yeah, that was a pipe dream.

  308. NMR says:

    Nice of you to speak for the supposed majority.

    You do realize that there are 13 teams in baseball getting worse offensive production by even your arbitrary standards, right?

  309. Jim S. says:

    Now is not the right time. His value will never be higher, will it?

    Don’t get me wrong. I love him, and think the Pirates uncovered a gem in FL. Outstanding scouting job!

  310. pattonbb says:

    Wish I was smart enough to sit back and listen once in a while.

  311. 6 hits in 1 game.

    1 hit in next 6 games.

  312. Jim S. says:


  313. NMR says:

    Thanks guys, appreciate your opinions.

    And Jim, I butcher my “ei”s and “ie”s half the time. You will never find me smacking your knuckles with a ruler!

  314. 21sthebest says:

    “Derek Bell was very good the 1st Half of the season before he became a Pirate.”

    You’re talking about the first half of 2000? He was very good then. Awful the second half of 2000. Don’t really understand the parallel.

  315. Jim S. says:

    They are over-budget right now, cmat.

  316. Jim S. says:

    Appreciate it.

  317. JAL says:

    Remember, 99% plus of all trade rumors never happen.

    DK: Actually, JAL, that’s not a fair representation. I’ve written this for years, but I’ll repeat. What gets reported are TALKS. If the Pirates and Angels TALK about Player X for Player Y — for real — but no trade is consummated, the reporting was still 100 percent accurate.

  318. Jim S. says:

    I agree with you that he should be traded. His value will never be higher. He’ll sign his next deal with a west coast team or NY, which seems to be what most of the Japanese players do.

  319. cvillekidinhershey says:

    Would’ve liked to see Jeanmar Gomez going as a starter in game 2 and bring up Cumpton for long relief if there’s a need.

  320. Jim S. says:

    “Derek Bell without the boat” is a great line, whether you agree with it or not. That made me laugh.

  321. Dadtackular says:

    Line 1. 100 dead cardinals on 1
    Line 2. 100 dead cardinals under
    Line 3. 100 dead cardinals under

  322. Bizrow says:

    And often the ones that do, you never hear about.

    Still its fun for some of us to speculate and talk about it ;-)

  323. Jim S. says:

    I think Jeanmar might have to eat multiple innings if Cumpton falters tonight.

  324. cmat0829 says:

    Maybe it’s best said this way: 99% of talks about trades never end up culminating in an actual trade. Reporting of talks are accurate… it’s just that talks usually lead nowhere.

  325. theplanisworking says:

    DK……….. unless the parties involved swear to double-secret probation……… and Bluto is dong the negotiating.

  326. Rios has been very good in past.
    Rios has been good in small spurts this season.

    As Derek Bell in 2nd Half of 2000, Rios’ concentration has ebbed and flowed this year. More ebb than flow.

    I do not think I want to trust Rios as the acquisition to get Pirates to Promised Land.

    As Derek Bell did, Rios seems to want to spend more time standing in line to cash his check than mentally prepare to play winning baseball.

  327. JohninOshkosh says:

    Agreed. Groat’s one of the best.

  328. Jim S. says:

    I missed the inaccuracy of what JAL wrote. I’ve seen hundreds of rumored trade talks over the past weeks, and there have been very few actual trades.

  329. NMR says:

    I have a really hard time believing some of the “TALK” DK refers to is even accurate.

    He said it himself, the information almost always comes from a 3rd party. That opens up a ton of credibility and accuracy issues for me.

    You’re only as good as your sources, right?

  330. Nate83 says:

    CH essentially said there would be a need no matter what as Gomez would be limited to 50 pitches. That is pretty much conceding 3 or 4 innings for your starter and your best option to come in to pitch 3 or 4 inning in relief of Gomez is Gomez himself which you already used.

  331. Vette60 says:

    100 on 2 wins
    50 on game 1 line under
    50 on game 2 line over

    Let’s go Bucs!

    Randy in RVA

  332. Bizrow says:

    The rookie battery combination is what worries me a bit

  333. Milo Hamilton says:

    Hey AJ,

    Would it be too much to ask for a zero in the top of the 1st ? With no drama ? Just wondering.

  334. Nate83 says:

    I believe this is what JAL was referring to. I don’t think he was suggesting that the reporting was not accurate just that the trade never happened.

  335. Jim S. says:

    Cue the Keystone Cops.

  336. theplanisworking says:

    Tough crowd in here today………… ;)

  337. Jim S. says:

    Yes, and I think Cumpton will have a short leash. CH probably won’t let him go past 75 pitches or so, unless he is breezing.

  338. theplanisworking says:


    Jays trying to trade Melky Cabrera.

    That would be like trying to drink coffee with a fork.

  339. Jim S. says:

    I’m just saying that when AJ pitches lately, weird defensive happenings occur. I think that is what Milo was getting at.

  340. Anybody know when the Pirates play next?

    I might meander down there . . . . I’m sure good seats are still available.

  341. Bizrow says:

    Colorado, then Miami

  342. theplanisworking says:

    I know, I was just giving him a hard time, hence the winky thingy

  343. AJS says:

    Jenny isn’ stretched out. A spot start for him would probably be 50 pitches. If he struggles through even 1 inning he wouldn’t even be able to go 5. Cumpton can come in and throw on his normal rest with his normal work out and go 5-6 for sure.

  344. Milo Hamilton says:

    Oh, he’s had plenty to do with it too. A total team effort, unfortunately.

  345. Nate83 says:

    Then they play Colorado again on the road. Cards still have some tough series ahead of them right after this series. Schedule sets up nicely in 10 games after this series for the Pirates.

  346. Actually, I’ll be there Friday night with 50 of my closest friends.

    My church is going on Free Shirt Friday.

    2 runners on base already. Ugh!

  347. Stickyweb says:

    John in OK, thanks for trying to bring a little sanity to the place. Great perspective on the Brewers and Aoki. No chance on him, it seems. And we know Rios is a decent player, but he’s getting built up because so few other players are available. His contract for next year is the White Sox mistake, there’s no reason the Bucs should have to suffer with it. If the Sox end up enough so the Bucs only pay $5 – 7 million, then I wouldn’t mind sending a middle prospect for him. I just like Dickerson so much this last month and since there’s do depth at 1B, I’d rather it be an OF.

  348. Bizrow says:

    First inning trouble again

  349. Milo Hamilton says:

    Hasn’t won a game since May 4th.

  350. AJS says:

    Who better to throw to the rookie catcher than the kid he has been catching all season. i know that really is a look on the bright side kind of statement isn’t it?

  351. Lousy joke if no one gets it!!!

  352. Jim S. says:

    Cards go directly to Cincy.

  353. theplanisworking says:

    CUTCH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  354. AJS says:

    Man that’s tough. He has been on the wrong side of a couple fielding debacles though. And a couple of 0 offesnsive support outings.

  355. pattonbb says:


  356. Don’t worry, be happy!!

    McCutch double play!!!!

  357. Jim S. says:

    I missed that darn winky thing, Plan.

  358. JRay3 says:

    How do you spell spectacular- CUTCH!

  359. Bizrow says:


  360. AJS says:

    Must have been a hell of a catch and throw!

  361. theplanisworking says:

    Is it a Major League reference?

  362. Milo Hamilton says:

    I think I just got chills. I take this stuff way too seriously.

  363. Jim S. says:

    For those of us not watching yet, what happened. Great grab by Cutch & caught runner off base?

  364. War Horse says:

    When the Cardinal players vote for an MVP later this season, I hope they remember that catch by Cutch.

  365. Leaving now to play my own double-header tonight.

    Hold the fort, Buccos!!

    All you lunatics here are in charge to bring home the winS!

  366. theplanisworking says:

    Or, lousy audience……………..

  367. JRay3 says:

    Cutch makes a diving catch on ball tailing away from him that no other CF makes, and to top it off doubles up Holliday who thought for sure that ball was easily down.

  368. NMR says:

    You’re just baiting me into a condescending sabermetric comment, aren’t you? :)

  369. Milo Hamilton says:

    It was either Cutch or Pavarotti singing Nessun dorma on that soccer ad.

  370. War Horse says:

    My heart rate must have hit 150/90 with that catch.

  371. JohninOshkosh says:

    Thanks for playing today, Groat.

  372. Stickyweb says:

    DK, thanks for giving us your perspective, as I was starting to go a little crazy like cmat on all of the conflicting reports. I guess people can only report what they’re told and since there’s as much disinformation out there as information (or probably more), we end up with what we’ve seem today.

  373. 21sthebest says:

    Rios wouldn’t be my first choice, and I think it takes 25 players to get us to the promised land whatever that is exactly, but I like Rios in right field everyday a lot better than I like what we have going on right now.

  374. AJS says:

    How’s this for unbelievable…Pirates are -145 favorites at first pitch.

  375. Drew71 says:

    WHIP COMPARISON: League average vs. Bud Norris

    2013: AL 1.311 // BN 1.509
    2012: NL 1.311 // BN 1.484
    2011: NL 1.309 // BN 1.328
    2010: NL 1.348 // BN 1.372
    2009: NL 1.378 // BN 1.413

    BN career aggregate WHIP: 1.404

    1. For 2009-2012, BN did not pitch against Houston. The rest of the league did.
    2. For 2013, AL comparison used since Houston fled to the weak league.
    3. For 2013, BN did not pitch against Houston. The rest of the league did.

    (This is an adjective-free AND opinion-free post.)

  376. AJS says:

    Is that your heart rate or your BP? If it is your heart rate you may want to go to the hospital as 1.67 bpm is not good at all.

  377. JohninOshkosh says:

    I always picture you as Brian “kill the win” Kenny.

  378. Jim S. says:

    Thanks, JRay!

    I don’t know for sure, but I’m going out on a limb here and I’m gonna say this McCutchen fellow is going to be a decent pro in time.

  379. Jim S. says:

    Yup. He was never very good, and he is slipping a bit. Just say no.

  380. JRay3 says:

    Cutch does it with the bat as well with a double and than El Toro promptly brings him in on laser shot to RF for RBI double. RBI # 69 for Pedro, lock this guy up long term Buccos.

  381. AJS says:

    WOO! McCutchen Doubles, DayDro doubles 1-0 good guys!

  382. theplanisworking says:

    Isnt “weak” an adjective?

    Or did I drink too much bacon beer? ;)

  383. Stickyweb says:

    I think it depends a lot on game 1’s results. If Bucs win, Cumpton has a longer leash. Looking good to start.

  384. Stickyweb says:

    Too bad they both can’t lose that series.

  385. Drew71 says:

    Ok. One.

  386. Jim S. says:

    I don’t think they are mutually exclusive questions, Plan. How much bacon beer did you consume?

  387. Stickyweb says:

    I got it Groat and was surprised everyone answered you seriously. It’s your fault, you set the bar too high with the Derek Bell without the boat thing.

  388. theplanisworking says:

    Sometimes, Jim, not nearly enough……….

  389. NMR says:

    Alright, why do baseball reporters get excused for passing along bad information?

    You cannot tell me that every one of these rumors, even “talks” are accurate representations of what actually was discussed.

    These guys belong at the National Enquirer if that is what they consider reporting.

  390. Stickyweb says:

    He’s a flash in the pan.

  391. War Horse says:

    Heart rate = 150 bpm. How’s that sound, Doc?

  392. Bizrow says:

    Is there maple in that too?

  393. Stickyweb says:

    Yeah, AJS, I was surprised at that and yesterday’s odds were about the same. I’m a conspiracy theorist and think Vegas was goading the public into taking the Cards, good news for the Bucs.

  394. Milo Hamilton says:

    No, I’ve been on that bandwagon for years. Especially on losing teams. But it means something to the pitchers & he needs a W for his own state of mind. He’s been cranky & that makes me cranky. That’s all.

  395. Bizrow says:

    Now we need AJ to settle down for a bit

  396. Jim S. says:

    Haha! Touche!

  397. theplanisworking says:

    If there is maple in his adjectives, we got problems………

  398. Jim S. says:

    D*mn! I knew I was out on a limb. Never taking a chance like that again.

  399. Stickyweb says:

    And sometimes too much, eh Plan? Tis tough finding the middle ground. Very few go to the well the exact right number of times.

  400. Stickyweb says:

    Wow, you really didn’t use an adjective for Houston, I guess I just inferred “horrible”

  401. theplanisworking says:

    Well, since I have difficulty with math, I never know when is enough or too much.

    When it makes me remember the germans bombing Pearl Harbor, I normally quit.

  402. Drew71 says:

    So I go all baseball for one stinking post and all I get pack is pull my bacon finger.

    Guys. Minutes of research went into that post.

  403. Milo Hamilton says:

    Do y’all like Peavy better than Norris ?

  404. JRay3 says:


  405. Stickyweb says:

    Have you forgotten who his agent is? Or would you offer the the A-Rod 10 year, $250 million to keep him?

  406. JRay3 says:

    AJ bounces back with nice 1-2-3 inning including 2 K’s. Watch out if he settles in here.

  407. Stickyweb says:

    So you won’t be ordering Chinese take out ever again?

  408. JRay3 says:

    He is under control through 2015-16 I believe, offer him deal similar to Cutch, where you pay him more than he would get now and buy our a FA year.

  409. Nate83 says:

    Cliff Lee and Jeff Samardzija are the only starting pitchers I have heard that may be on the trading block that I feel the Pirates should have any remote interest in. Any other player does very little to improve this pitching staff and may not even be good enough to make a 4 man post season rotation on this team.

  410. Nate83 says:

    but yes I do like Peavy better.

  411. Nate83 says:

    I just hope he doesn’t tell the bullpen to STFD!!! No more of that drama needed.

  412. NMR says:

    The question is a disservice to Peavy.

  413. Baywatch says:

    Any way … just ONE afternoo … we can get Greg and Steve to DISPATCH with the Chamber of Commerce behavior! Grrrrrr!! (And y’all didn’t know ol’ Bay was an ex-hippie!)

  414. Stickyweb says:

    I kind of hope he does something like that today, assuming the game is going well and he’s totally joking. It would lighten the mood and maybe take a little pressure off.

  415. Stickyweb says:

    Love the idea, but I don’t think there’s a chance Boras let’s him take it. If he signs it, Boras may fire him!

  416. Nate83 says:

    I agree straight up yes it is a disservice to Peavy. It depends on he is including variables like one being a rental for just this year and the other being a middle/back end starter for the team over the next 2 years.

  417. Milo Hamilton says:

    Here he goes again. Where exactly is his head ?

  418. theplanisworking says:

    AJ looked like he was playing “spin around the pole on your forehead” on that play.

    Maybe he got into Drew’s beer?

  419. Stickyweb says:

    Good question NMR, but I think it’s because of the time constrictions, and only “allowed” at the deadline. There’s just no time to cross check the facts with another source or two.

  420. NMR says:

    Except that Peavy is under control next year and has an option for 2015.

  421. Dave G says:

    HUGE STFD by AJ with bases loaded, no outs

  422. NMR says:

    There’s an easy solution to that problem: don’t report it.

    Look, sports are entertainment. We’re here to be entertained, and rumors do the trick.

    Just spare me from calling yourself a journalist unless you act like one.

  423. JRay3 says:

    AJ only gives up one after loading the bases with nobody out, I will gladly take that. Huge escape there.

  424. Stickyweb says:

    Glad I didn’t post that comment about how good AJ looks on pitch count, 31 through 2 innings, cause he got blown up in the 3rd. Good thing I didn’t jinx him.

  425. JRay3 says:

    Beltran has stung two balls and easily could have a few RBI’s already…now let’s get some offense for AJ.

  426. Brandie says:

    Greetings to all of those in the Hee-Haw Cornfield! Go Buccos!

  427. Karen22 says:


  428. Karen22 says:

    #1: 50 – UNDER
    #2 50 – OVER

  429. Brandie says:

    Hey there Ms. Karen!

  430. Karen22 says:

    Yo, Brandie! :)

  431. JohninOshkosh says:

    Thanks, Stickyweb. I appreciate it.

    But as Dennis Miller used to say, “…of course, that’s just my opinion. I could be wrong.” :)

  432. Karen22 says:

    NICE! AJ needed a quick one. Now let’s get some HITS!

  433. Karen22 says:


  434. theplanisworking says:

    Welcome, K-Dog.

    Good to see you.

  435. Karen22 says:

    :) He’s just so AWESOME!!

  436. Brandie says:

    Matt Adams is from the town I currently live in…Philipsburg. STFD Matt Adams!

  437. theplanisworking says:


    How the heck are ya?

  438. War Horse says:

    Sometimes I suspect that part of A.J.’s head exists in another solar system.

  439. Milo Hamilton says:

    Cards have dealt Mark Rzepczynski to Cleveland. Not announced yet but they’re playing a man short in their pen.

  440. Milo Hamilton says:

    That’s from Derrick Goold – St. Louis Post Dispatch.

  441. Nate83 says:

    My bad. I thought I heard others saying he was a rental. It’s hard to keep all these rumors straight.

  442. cmat0829 says:

    Interesting… Cards optioned both relief pitchers who threw yesterday (Scrabble and Salas) and called up fresh arms for today’s game…. now reports are that Cards have trade lefty “Scrabble” to the Indians….

    I find it a bit surprising Salas was sent down as I thought he was one of their better bullpen guys, but I guess not.

  443. cmat0829 says:

    actually Milo see below… Scrabble was already optioned so Cards pen is full strength

  444. Milo Hamilton says:

    Ah. Forward thinking. I was thinking about Vic Black in the same regard.

  445. Brandie says:

    S’up my Hippo Homie! Just chillin’, listening to the game, gonna eat, lift, then catch the second game!

  446. Thundercrack says:

    ‘You cannot tell me that every one of these rumors, even “talks” are accurate representations of what actually was discussed.’

    Who said they are NMR?

    They are reporting rumors. That what a rumor is.
    I don’t think you need to get another source to collaborate.

    Of course if you don’t get quotes from at least one of the GMs then you may not get a completely accurate representation of what actually was discussed.

    But just as DK said , if Houston calls up NH and says ‘would you be interested in Bud Norris?’ and NH says “Yes, what you would you expect in return”

    Then the Astros and Pirates have discussed at trade involving Bud Norris

  447. Stickyweb says:

    A 9 pitch inning! Maybe I reverse jinxed him. Maybe I don’t have any effect on the game at all. Maybe I should shut up.

  448. Brandie says:

    Or putting hope into an Alice In Chains song!

  449. Milo Hamilton says:

    Alex Presley down swinging on 5 pitches. One of them was even in the strike zone. Maybe.

  450. theplanisworking says:

    Hippo Homie! :)

    Does lifting your fork to eat count?? ;)

    Good to see you, and catch you later, I guess.

  451. theplanisworking says:

    Hippo Homie! :)

    Does lifting your fork to eat count?? ;)

    Good to see you, and catch you later, I guess.

  452. Brandie says:

    Well, that’s a part of your life that’s gone forever!

  453. Brandie says:

    Oh…I will be around.

  454. Jonathan says:

    Much respect for Barmes’ glove. Never a worry on balls hit to his side.

  455. Stickyweb says:

    Looks like Matheny is OUT PANICKING Hurdle. Love to see the Bucs against some AAA arms the rest of the series. So neither of those guys can come back for 10 days, unless there’s a convenient injury, right?

  456. theplanisworking says:

    Dont forget, B-Dog…….. Hippos ARE round.

  457. JRay3 says:

    Pretty even through five innings today:

    Pirates 1 run, three hits
    Cardinals 1 run, three hits

    AJ Burnett – 82 pitches
    Lance Lynn 80 pitches

  458. JRay3 says:

    Martin needs to keep his head in the game, a strikeout that results in a double, simply can not argue until play is over.

  459. pattonbb says:

    Umpiring continues to be atrocious.

  460. Milo Hamilton says:

    The ball hit him, he swung & missed. The ball is dead as soon as it hits him. That should be a strikeout & Jay should be out. Period. Bad call.

  461. pattonbb says:

    That ump is a joke. What an embarrassment.

  462. JRay3 says:

    Hey Bud Selig, the Umps are not the show! And AJ needs to gain some composure.

  463. Milo Hamilton says:

    You are 100% correct.

  464. theplanisworking says:

    AJ needs to STFU himself, and not implode!!!

  465. cmat0829 says:

    And again the problem isn’t just -the blown call, it’s the “I’m sure I’m right attitude’ these crappy umps have…. They should not ever be the focus yet they just can’t seem to help themselves.

    Hard to imagine a ball would change directions and bounce 15 feet away…also hard that NO other umpire noticed John Jay shake his foot after being hit…. umps worry more about saving face then making the correction.

  466. cmat0829 says:

    Martin forgot he wasn’t Yadier Molina… If Yadi argues like that, the umps change the call instantly

  467. JRay3 says:

    Would be huge if Bucs get out of this half inning unscathed, could turn some momentum and light fire to team.

  468. cmat0829 says:

    that said he needs to get the ball, call timeout and then argue.

  469. Milo Hamilton says:

    Back in the old days there would have been red shoe polish on that ball. Somebody needs to know that ball hit him. Jay sure does.

  470. CoolRudy says:

    The “leaders” of this team Burnett and Martin need to settle down. They are supposed to be the ones that show composure in high pressure situations.

  471. cmat0829 says:

    right, he makes me nervous when he gets on the umpires…..

  472. JRay3 says:

    HUGE! AJ gets four outs in the inning and the Cards go 0-3 with a RISP! Time to retake the lead boys!

  473. theplanisworking says:

    And he did STFU himself, and got out of it !!!!

  474. theplanisworking says:


  475. cmat0829 says:

    this is where nba refs have it right (yes, I know, NBA) …when they make out of bounds calls, and the other team objects big time, they huddle and change the call…..there is nothing that they look at, but they pretty much go by the force of the reaction to the call. I think that is what Martin was thinking there really, by obviously not going after the ball, he was sure that the call would be made…it wasn’t right but …..

  476. JRay3 says:

    I love AJ’s fiery competitiveness but at times he walks a very fine line when he lets his emotions out. I do not agree with the Umpire’s reaction but AJ can not demonstratively act out when a call does not go his way.

    He was very close to getting tossed in an important game.

  477. theplanisworking says:

    + many!

    Passion is great, stupidity isnt.

  478. Milo Hamilton says:

    This just in – we don’t score much.

  479. stickyweb says:

    I love regression on the Cards avg with RISP. May it continue the rest of the season.

  480. JohninOshkosh says:

    This is a PSA from ASPOADKB (American Society for Propagation of Avatars on Dejan Kovacevic’s Blog or The AS DK’s):

    The following review of the blog is not scientific and most likely inaccurate:

    Of the last 100 posts, 25 have had no accompanying avatar. According to the University of Wisconsin School of Business, that constitutes 25 %.

    That is unacceptable.

    Go to to express yourself ! If you want, choose a picture of an attractive middle aged actress and drive Groat crazy !

    Remember, none of us is truly free unless we are labeled with a picture.

  481. theplanisworking says:

    This just in…………. all umpires suck!

    resume game………….

  482. Milo Hamilton says:

    The Indians have DFA’d pitcher Joe Martinez. Remember that guy ? My how far we’ve come.

  483. John Lease says:

    Good thing Barmes is in there, he’ll show ‘em…

  484. John Lease says:

    Maybe he should get a really old one and bat with it.

  485. tdb1977 says:

    There appears to be not an empty seat at the yard right now.

  486. Milo Hamilton says:


  487. cmat0829 says:

    outstanding performance by AJ. Would be great to get him a run here for a possible W…..

  488. JRay3 says:

    And one last time today AJ says STFD! A solid 7 innings of three hit ball with 9 K’s.

  489. Milo Hamilton says:

    That wasn’t a quality start, that was a great start.

  490. tdb1977 says:

    Let’s get a couple of runs this inning so AJ can qualify for the win! Emotions are running so high right now on both sides.

  491. John Lease says:

    Boo boo remains a favorite of mine!

  492. twentytwo22 says:

    7 innings, 1 run from Burnett. Nothing wrong with that.

    2 lefties to start the 8th inning for St. Louis. Set up for Wilson and then Melancon.

    The Pirates have 3 innings to score 1 run.

  493. bizrow says:

    What a ballgame, just tremendous

    Now we just need one more thing

    A finish where the Jolly Roger is raised

  494. JRay3 says:

    Two heavyweights going toe to toe….best part of these first two games is the Pirates not backing down from the big stage, the limelight, the gravity of it all, they have the look of a team that belongs here.

  495. Karen22 says:


  496. JohninOshkosh says:


  497. Lad9 says:

    +34. I am sitting in a bar outside the Trop and the Rays fans are looking at us like idiots as we go nuts about AJ. STFU!!

  498. Karen22 says:

    Need a hero. NOW.

  499. bizrow says:

    Anyone smelling a walk off?

  500. Karen22 says:

    Need a right fielder. NOW.

  501. cmat0829 says:

    Rays have fans?

  502. stickyweb says:

    A little off topic but a curious item. In the Brewers/Cubs game, Brew Crew had runners on 1st and 2nd with two outs, pitcher due up. They pinch hit and Segura is thrown out trying to steal 3rd. What a moron. Almost no difference being on 2nd or 3rd with 2 outs and the pitchers already out of the game then. They had to do a double switch (maybe they would have anyway) and take their starting catcher out of the game or lose the PH without getting him an AB. Funny game.

  503. tdb1977 says:

    6 more chances to get one run across before extra innings are needed in game 1.

  504. Karen22 says:

    I’m here and there…newly married son was here helping Dad with some chores. I’ve always got one eye on the Buccos. Baseball is my thing.

  505. JohninOshkosh says:

    This game really feels like it is being played in October.

  506. bizrow says:

    They play baseball in October???

  507. Karen22 says:

    Really, REALLY tired of the bad ump thing. I do believe I’m all for NO umps on the field. Electronic…plus someone in some undisclosed location (a la Toronto in the NHL) who is totally unbiased and can look at replays. This is getting ridiculous. And I am no longer a purist when it comes to baseball. Isn’t the objective to GET IT RIGHT?!

  508. JohninOshkosh says:

    Last place is as last place does.

  509. Karen22 says:


  510. Karen22 says:

    Yep. Thought he was going to get tossed.

  511. Karen22 says:

    YESSSS to that!

  512. Karen22 says:

    I think they need to stop pitching Holliday outside.

  513. Karen22 says:

    Well, some teams do…maybe even the Pirates??

  514. twentytwo22 says:

    Scared the **** out of me Neverette

  515. bizrow says:

    Big, big out with Beltran

  516. Karen22 says:

    GAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!! Need a HERO!!!!!!

    Thank you, Marte….

  517. JRay3 says:

    Justin Wilson uses a 98-99 MPH assault to get through the Cards 1-4 hitters. A little offensive magic would be nice here.

  518. Karen22 says:

    We NEVER give him any runs….EVER!

  519. bizrow says:

    Maybe ;-)

  520. theplanisworking says:

    No, but I smell chicken enchiladas.

  521. Karen22 says:

    Sooooo…trade deadline tomorrow. NEED BATS.

  522. Karen22 says:

    He’s awful.

  523. JUCOFan says:

    I will take 50 on the under for line 2

  524. theplanisworking says:

    Ya think? ;)

  525. Steelag70 says:

    Come on Daydro…..

  526. JRay3 says:

    Cardinals walk Cutch to face the player who has more RBI’s against them than any player in baseball since start of last season in Pedro who has 31.


  527. Milo Hamilton says:

    Let’s see how close I come.

    – Swing & miss at one low & away.
    – Foul ball.
    – Swing & miss at one in the dirt.

  528. Lad9 says:

    I think they are all in this bar. Place is huge and there have to be 500 people here. Half of crowd!

  529. Steelag70 says:


  530. Brandie says:


  531. Milo Hamilton says:

    That might be the opportunity they look back on.

  532. Cobra39 says:

    You think a straight-up trade of Glasnow for Lee is fair? Some people are practically delusional about Pirate prospects. I’d make that trade for Norris.

  533. twentytwo22 says:

    No harm no foul thanks to Melancon. Score a run win a ballgame.

  534. tdb1977 says:

    Give us a walk off winner in game 1… That is all. And Neal – please get a bat tonight so we have them available for tomorrow night.

  535. JRay3 says:

    Melancon does his job in the 9th….#SharkTank….how about a walk off?

  536. Milo Hamilton says:

    Now my favorite part. Everybody tries to hit it 600 feet.

  537. tdb1977 says:

    Jones can make up for that poor throw to 2nd when he should have just eatten it.

  538. Playoffs by 2012 says:

    If the first game takes 18 innings, do they have to play the second one or can the first one just count as two?

  539. chethejet says:

    The Cardinals are not the best team in baseball. But they do have an advantage in experience and know how that the Pirates do not. As this season goes along, the inexperience of being in a pennant race will show. As fans the fix is only time, player development and roster management. There are no players who will impact this team except Stanton and possibly Cuddyer. The 1st baseman from Seattle is also a fit but is not on the market as far as I know.

  540. Cobra39 says:

    Glasnow never sees the majors by 2015 yet alone in the rotation. You build a farm system to replenish your small market talent that goes elsewhere but also to provide you with trading chips for when you are contenders.

    The Pirates are contenders right now. It’s time to stop thinking like we’re in a perpetual rebuilding mode and need to keep a death grip on any prospect that shows a modicum of talent. The Bucs need a hitter and another pitcher for the stretch drive and they aren’t getting one without giving up a few prospects.

  541. theplanisworking says:

    If we win, yes.
    If we lose, no!

  542. theplanisworking says:

    If we win, yes.
    If we lose, no!

  543. tdb1977 says:

    Make it a DH tomorrow :) Let’s play 6 in 4 days!

  544. JRay3 says:

    If there wasn’t going to be enough free baseball today, how about some free baseball in the opener…on to extras we go in a game where neither team has flinched yet.

  545. Patrick(ri) says:

    Hope we can getbpast our extra-inning specialist!

  546. pattonbb says:


    Morris always looks kind of scared to me.

  547. twentytwo22 says:


  548. Patrick(ri) says:

    Fortunately, their dp specialist prevailed.

  549. JRay3 says:

    Bryan Morris induces a ground ball DP to Mr. DP Matt Holliday his 24th of year and Bucs escape again…whew!

    Need to end this now.

  550. pattonbb says:

    very impressive

  551. Patrick(ri) says:

    Cutch appears to think this is it. The Pirate dugout is one of the best shows on tv.

  552. pattonbb says:

    ….damn. That was nasty.

  553. Milo Hamilton says:

    Well, here comes Vin Mazzaro. It gets decided this inning. One way or the other.

  554. stickyweb says:

    If the Cards aren’t the best team in baseball, does that mean the Bucs are?

  555. Lad9 says:

    BRANDIE! So weird watching baseball indoors with a major storm raging outside. Lights have flickered four times. How are you dynomuppet? Half the lights just went out. Spooky

  556. JRay3 says:

    Well Vin does his part in the 11th, I hope you are correct in your prognostication tonight like you were on the sac fly yesterday.

  557. Kevin says:

    Dunno if anyone else ask. If they go X extra innings, will they postpone game 2? Solve for X.

  558. JRay3 says:

    They are playing two regardless of innings in game one.

  559. theplanisworking says:

    Didnt there used to be a rule on the books that stated if a game wasnt completed by 1AM, it was suspended?

  560. pattonbb says:

    Maybe Martin can get his 4th walk off winner…..

  561. Kevin says:

    Theyll have no pitching left :|. Who’s going to watch that game at 3am?

  562. Kevin says:

    Come on Alex. End it here.

  563. tdb1977 says:

    If my memory serves me correctly – that is an American League rule I believe. National League doesnt have this rule. I could be wrong though.

  564. Patrick(ri) says:

    Line drive off the Clemente wall.

  565. Milo Hamilton says:

    Think that one’s off the books, Plan.

  566. Steven (Ark_ says:

    We need to end this now. Our Game 2 starter isn’t exactly Cy Young

  567. Kevin says:

    Awesome presley

  568. theplanisworking says:

    WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


  569. Patrick(ri) says:

    Close enough!

  570. pattonbb says:

    Really nice at bat by Presley!!!!!!

    You’re right Bob Hasis, he should’ve been here months ago.

  571. theplanisworking says:


  572. Kevin says:

    Woooooo bucs back in 1st!

  573. JUCOFan says:

    Raise it!!!!!

  574. Drew71 says:

    Well. That was nice.

  575. Milo Hamilton says:

    The reverse closer, Vin Mazzaro, strikes again.

  576. tdb1977 says:

    PIRATES WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PIRATES WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FIRST PLACE PIRATES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Game 2 in 30 minutes

  577. JRay3 says:

    Pirates now 5-2 versus Cards…21 above .500 and back in first place!!! Cards five straight losses.


  578. Patrick(ri) says:


  579. pattonbb says:

    ….fear the Bones…..

    …..and get ready for game 2.

  580. Lad9 says:

    YESSSSSSS! Raise it. From a rain delay here in a dome!

  581. theplanisworking says:

    You are on a roll with your predictions.

    Can I get some lottery numbers from you?

  582. Wild Bill says:

    What a game!!! I hope we don’t have a second game that tight. Not sure I can handle another one.

  583. Thundercrack says:

    The Pirates are good.

  584. cmat0829 says:

    Morris induced a shot of a grounder, give credit to slick fielding of Barmes to turn that into DP.

  585. cmat0829 says:

    best record in beisbol at this very moment. And not sure there is better pitching anywhere.

  586. cmat0829 says:

    I’d say the bullpen is still in decent shape, considering a DH game 2 following an 11-inning opening game…. Gomez should be in line for multiple innings, if needed, most likely will be needed… dream scenario would be Cumpton can give them 5, Gomez for 2, then Watson then Melancon.

    Only Watson, Black (who threw a lot of pitches last night) and Gomez did not throw in game 1. But Morris, Mazarro and Wilson just went an inning in game 1 so they may be able to throw again in game 2 if needed.

  587. Drew71 says:

    Enough of the celebration. Where’s the new thread?!

    SOMEbody must be chasing trade deadline rumors.

  588. JAL says:

    Most predictive morning links song i can remember posting

  589. The Gunner says:


    Pattonbb ackowledges you were correct about Presley and SO DO I!!! AP has the Cardinals crying in the chapel!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  590. JAL says:

    CH said over 15 pitches would be the limit. Wilson threw 15, and Mazzaro 21 so only Mazzaro should be out for game 2.

  591. pattonbb says:

    Game 2 thread is up!

  592. theplanisworking says:

    Ok………. lets play til 4 AM !!!! ;)

  593. cmat0829 says:

    Pitchers need to learn that for the most part, it is best to let ground balls go through… lucky for us as the deflection = win and if he let it go it was DP and on to the 12th… I know instincts are what they are, and so glad it was THEIR pitcher that did that and not ours…. tough way to lose….. .

    but, a GREAT WAY TO WIN!!

  594. theplanisworking says:

    Never did like the AL.

  595. theplanisworking says:

    Thanks, Biz. ;)

  596. Jandy says:

    No playing till 4am! I gotta get SOME sleep, ya know :P

  597. Jandy says:

    Raise it high!! ;)

  598. Brandie says:

    Way 2 get it done!!!!

  599. Milo Hamilton says:

    Had to make sure we got to 600. I think DK gets a bonus.

  600. Jandy says:

    Where is Bob Hasis?
    Presley saves the day!

  601. Jandy says:


  602. Karen22 says:

    That was an AWESOME win!! OK…Let’s take TWO!!

  603. Karen22 says:


  604. Jandy says:

    heck yeah!!

  605. Thundercrack says:

    DK is trying to ease NMR’s fears.

    He is busy getting multiple sources to corroborate every trade rumor and discussion that has being reported.

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