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Pittsburgh sports talk with the Trib columnist

Morning Java: One right fielder, please, and hold the rest

By Dejan Kovacevic | Trib Total Media

Morning, Lunatics …

>> Today’s TribLIVE Radio show — on its new day and new time, 2-3 p.m. — will feature special guest Willie Gay of the local football team. We’ll discuss, in particular, why so many players who leave the Steelers end up boomeranging back, as he just has.

We’ll also talk with Derrick Goold, Cardinals beat writer for the St. Louis Post-Dispatch and a longtime friend in part because of our shared comic book geekdom.

Yeah, @SuckMeter will be along, too.

To listen, just click on the link above. It’s free, easy, no signup. If you’ve got an iPhone, iPad or Android, we’ve got the upgraded TribLIVE Radio app. Also free and easy.

I want you involved, too, so email at or call 412-320-7925. And you can email the show at any time, not just when it’s airing.

Oh, and don’t worry, there will be lots about this



PTR-Bucs 28-073113

>> The Pirates tantalizingly take two from the Cardinals. Karen Price has it from a boisterous yard that Jason Grilli would later describe as ‘like a rowdy soccer crowd.’

Latest on the trade deadline, by Rob Biertempfel.

The scene was twice as nice, per this Joe Starkey column.

Here’s the rest of our baseball coverage.

Yadier Molina is headed back to St. Louis, per the Post-Dispatch.

And here are official game(s) highlights from

>> To reiterate my my trade stance on the Pirates one final time leading up to the 4 p.m. deadline: Upgrading in right field has reached the point of being mandatory. I was in favor of giving Jose Tabata a look, but he blew that. Neither he nor any current player is getting it done at that position. And Travis Snider’s current injury and Garrett Jones’ ongoing failure to break out underscore it all the more.

Let me put it bluntly: If a right fielder isn’t acquired who is a legit upgrade over what’s here, that will be one for the L column. But I fully expect that this will happen, whether it’s Alex Rios, Hunter Pence or Nate Schierholtz, the latter having emerged late last night as most likely.

And honestly, I’m not sure I’d go any further. Another arm wouldn’t offend me, though I’d hardly classify it as a need. When you can just randomly call up Brandon Cumpton to pitch as he did last night, you’re anything but desperate for a starter. The relievers might be able to use a hand. Jason Grilli’s out, and Bryan Morris has taken a small step back. But that’s not desperate, either.

Get the right fielder — a good right fielder, an everyday guy — and call it a day.

I’ll repeat that I don’t hope to see wholesale anything. This, in case you haven’t been paying attention of late, is a very good team with a very good thing going. Give it what it needs and not a thing more, or you risk messing with that.

>> Before I let go of baseball this morning, take a look at this …

One of the many benefits to us in covering spring training in Bradenton is that we get to know not only the Pirates’ current players but also those on the rise. Because of this, our staff photog, Chris Horner, who spends most of the spring down there, was aware of how much it would mean to Tony Sanchez to have the above moment captured forever: Finally taking to the PNC Park field in catcher’s gear.

Horner did it just for Sanchez, but thought I’d share it with you, too.

Here’s some of what Sanchez had to say after Game 2 …

>> Ben Roethlisberger and Plaxico Burress insist they’ve still got something special. Alan Robinson reports that from Latrobe, as well as taking part in this shiny video …

Find more from Saint Vincent — where the team was off yesterday — on our Steelers page.

>> I’ll be at PNC Park the next two days to write the next two columns.

Author: Dejan Kovacevic

Dejan Kovacevic, a lifelong Pittsburgher, is an award-winning sports columnist for Trib Total Media covering the Steelers, Penguins, Pirates, Pitt and, recently, his fourth Olympics in Sochi, Russia. He also appears on WPXI-TV's 'Subway Final Word’ and hosts a weekly show on TribLIVE Radio. For 2011, he was named one of the country's top four columnists by the AP Sports Editors. For 2012, he was named one of the country's top three columnists by the National Headliners. For 2013, he was named the state's top columnist by the Keystone Press Awards and top columnist in Western Pennsylvania by the Golden Quills.


  1. JD says:

    Great night of baseball. Go Bucs!

  2. Ghost says:

    Alex Presley is probably making Neal Huntington squirm, right about now. Of course, Tabby played well too… for a week. Still, glad the impending trade deadline is Neal’s problem, not mine. Is Alex good enough? If you think so now, will you regret not doing anything on the other side of the deadline? What do you do? Clock’s ticking!….

  3. Ghost says:

    Myself, I hedge and still get the right-handed bat. But only for a prospect not named Taillon or Polanco. Right field is Presley’s to lose, though. If “chemistry” is the watchword for this year’s Buc’s, Presley has bought in.

  4. Nate83 says:

    Right on point with the right field comments. It would really be like playing with fire to do anything else. Great sweep of the double header. The team continues to amaze at every turn.

    Really easy to root for these guys because they honestly root and care for each other. Closest team I’ve seen in awhile and a lot of credit goes to cutch for that in my opinion. Others as well but him more then anything because I truly believe he is the face of the franchise. He seems so non-assuming and just wants to be one of the guys and have fun. Leads by example and treats probably treats everyone the same whether its AJ, Cumpton or the bat boy.

  5. Eric Bowser says:

    Isn’t it so obvious, Pirates need a RH power bat for RF to hit in #5 spot between Alvarez and Jones?

    1. Marte, LF
    2. Walker, 2B
    3. McCutchen, CF
    4. Alvarez, 3B
    5. RF
    6. Jones, 1B
    7. Martin, C
    8. Mercer, SS

    White Sox have acquired Garcia from Tigers as part of the 3-team deal, so they have their major league OF to replace Rios, now Pirates pitching can land them their hitter.

    Tyler Glasnow, Barrett Barnes, and single A pitcher seems about right.

  6. tdb1977 says:

    Early thoughts on Tony Sanchez? Looked pretty good behind the plate in game 2.

  7. Nate83 says:

    Tyler Glasnow would be a no in my opinion. Rios isn’t that good and I don’t think there are a lot of teams with his contract interested. Maybe Kingman and Barnes but definately not Glasnow. With them now having Garcia they have to move Rios. Advantage Pirates in negotiations unless other teams are also in the market for Rios. I’m not sure other teams are.

  8. Spent over eight hours at PNC Park. As it turned out, I wouldn’t have it any other way, even with the sun burning me at section 143. Even got a ball from Alex Presley before the tenth inning. Amazing afternoon/evening! One more tomorrow, then it’s back to São Paulo.

  9. Eric Bowser says:

    Still hoping Pirates can pry Pence out of San Francisco… make them an offer that can’t be refused.

  10. Thundercrack says:

    Tyler Glasnow, Barrett Barnes, and single A pitcher seems about right.

    For Rios?!

    Glad that you are not the GM of my team.

  11. Ryan76 says:

    Agreed. Although I wouldn’t give up Kingham either. Not to take on $18M remaining on Rios’ contract. And he’s not a power hitter anymore. He’s still got speed, though, with a bit of power.

    Pence, would thrill me. He’d fit in perfect with this squad and this town.

  12. Ryan76 says:


  13. Ryan76 says:

    Awesome. Dude, you literally picked the best 3 days in 20 years to catch a series…go play the lottery too.

  14. Ghost says:

    No! You’re not allowed to go! We always win when you’re in the house, so São Paulo can wait!

  15. Thundercrack says:

    I’m not sold on Rios and Nate Schierholtz isn’t a name that thrills me.
    Is he really that much of an upgrade? Is he really worth giving up a upper level pitching prospect?

    Hey, I’m all for going for the playoffs now. But I am also aware that in 2014 – and especially in 2015 we are going to need starting pitchers.

  16. Eric Bowser says:

    There’s a price to pay and it won’t be cheap.

    Like I said previously, prefer Pence.

  17. Ghost says:

    About Hunter Pence,
    Like I said last night, I’d be leery of thinking we could catch lightning in a bottle the third time around. I think he’s happy in SF. Being uprooted asked to recreate his magic from last year will only lead to disappointment for everyone.

  18. Lad9 says:

    There is no one on the market that I know of that is worth that package IMHO.

  19. Ghost says:

    With you, here. Even as buyers, we should take the “need to be overwhelmed” approach, or walk away. I am definitely *not* overwhelmed by any of the names being bandied about. Should be somebody else with more of a WOW factor, or leave our prospects where they are.

  20. theplanisworking says:

    Glad you are having fun in the Burgh.

    Ghost is right. Sao Paulo CAN wait. ;)

  21. theplanisworking says:

    2 things to keep in mind……….

    1) Prospects dont always work out,
    2) You have to give to get.

    I agree the names this year stink, but unless you think Snider, Tabata, Presley are your answers, you have to get someone. I am not saying sell the entire farm, but hoarding prospects is a dicey thing.

    Be prepared to be underwhelmed.

  22. Nate83 says:

    But he provided no magic until the playoffs last year. He was horrible over the last 50 games last year.

  23. Thundercrack says:

    it seemed like you covered all your bases there.

    Are you willing to trade Glasnow for Rios?

    And you keep saying ‘be prepared to be underwhelmed’. Why?

  24. theplanisworking says:

    Its a great day to be a Pirate fan!!!

    Just thought I would throw that out there.

  25. Thundercrack says:

    Interesting to see what if finally took for the Red Sox to trade Inglesias. Hanrahan wasn’t enough over the winter. But one factor is that another player in their system seemed to go ahead of him.

  26. theplanisworking says:

    I dont see neal adding an good RF, for a variety or reasons.

    Glasnow for Rios? No. But we have hundreds of other prospects to choose from.

    Again, do you think Snider, Tabata, Presley are what you want to go into battle with?

  27. Frank says:

    We already have a power hitting outfielder to put in right. He is killing it on the same AAA team that helped us win two games today. Give us Lambo.

  28. Ghost says:

    Unlike Presley, Lambo is completely untested at the MLB record. Can’t rest our hopes for this year on that. Would be unfair to us and really unfair to the kid, himself.

    Would love the Lambo / Rambo wordplay, though…

  29. Thundercrack says:

    Well it looks like the White Sox are the ones doing the choosing of the prospects.

    If I can’t get a deal I am comfortable with, then yes I will take my chances with Tabata, Presley and Jones in RF.

  30. diehard says:

    If they play Wednesday like they did today, we might not let you leave!

  31. Thundercrack says:

    I didn’t even notice him behind the plate.

    And I mean that as a compliment.

  32. theplanisworking says:

    I can respect that choice.

    I dont want to go with those 3. Nice guys, but…………

    and, I cant remember who said it here over the weekend, maybe Eric, maybe Milo……………… if neal hoards his prospects (and he has never dealt a prospect ranked above #8), every prospect in the minors better ALL have Hall-of-Fame careers.

    Be prepared to be underwhelmed…………

  33. Ghost says:

    (You tie up his hands, Diehard. I’ll strap him to that seat in Sec. 143. Hippo can sit on him, no one will be the wiser he’s underneath.)
    Oh Alexandre! I have a pierogi for yoooouuuuu!….

  34. diehard says:

    I wouldn’t object to Pence, but please – not that clip again! They played that (the real one) at PNC/3RS for years. Never worked.

  35. Frank says:

    So test him. Criminy how many homers does a guy have to hit? All minor leaguers are untested until they get playing time.

  36. diehard says:


  37. theplanisworking says:

    Ghost, I love the way you always volunteer me for the dirty deeds.

    Climbing up flagpoles in hostile territory, sitting on people…………..
    If I didnt know any better, I would swear you are trying to kill me……..

  38. Ghost says:

    I’m all for that. And maybe he’ll even show us he’s ready (though he was only in AA ball a little bit ago. Probably isn’t quite seasoned enough for major league pitching.) But I Huntington should make his trade deadline decision as if Lambo isn’t part of the equation. Then he’s covered, and Lambo can only pleasantly surprise us.

    (Then of course, maybe NH is trading Lambo for Rios as we speak. :o )

  39. Thundercrack says:

    I’m already underwhelmed –by the list of players that are on the market! Rios, Schierholtz, Pence and Bud Norris?! That underwhelms me.

    If NH comes out after the deadline and says “Chicago wanted Glasnow in any deal for Rios, so I decided to make that trade” I will not be underwhelmed.

    DK: Hey, all, just want you to know I’ve peered into my Nostradamus lens, and the future TC — circa 4:01 p.m. today — is fine with whatever the Pirates just did at the deadline. Big megastar bat? Fine with him. Nothing at all? Okey-doke. Trading McCutchen and Marte for a reliever? Let’s move on.

    Sorry to be the spoiler. I get to take my own shots, too, on occasion. :)

  40. Ghost says:

    Ha ha! (To be read as if Nelson from the Simpson’s said it.)
    I’m actually not in favor of the Pence gambit. Just couldn’t pass up the chance to post that. Lincecum blows the quote but really looks like Boon.

  41. theplanisworking says:

    Like I said TC, I respect your opinion.
    I cannot agree with it.

    neal gets paid $$$$$$ to get the job done.

  42. Ghost says:

    I always do do that to you, don’t I? But at least the deed isn’t nearly as dirty for you as it is for Alexandre!

  43. Ghost says:

    “neal gets paid $$$$$$ to get the job done.”

    This is true. I don’t envy the decision he has to make over the next few hours, but it comes with the territory. Get it right, Neal.

  44. Eric Bowser says:

    Game 7… 9th inning… Pirates are losing by a run, Andrew McCutchen doubles to center with two outs and Pedro Alvarez strides to the plate with PNC Park roaring in anticipation. Too bad for the fans, the opposing team decides to put the winning run at first base to avoid the power of Alvarez and rather face Russell Martin. Martin grounds out weakly to the shortstop and game/series is over.

    There’s going to be zero fear to walk Alvarez unless the team gets some protection between he and Garrett Jones.

  45. Ryan76 says:

    New high water mark….22 games over. 56 to play.

  46. Eric Bowser says:

    2010 had 57 wins and three years later, we’re looking at a 95+ win team. I never saw this coming for 2013, not in a million guesses and especially after the start to the season.

  47. theplanisworking says:

    THIS ^^^^^^^^^^

    Post of the Century!!!!!!!!!!

    But, many, many will want neal to stand pat.
    Cant give up a prospect, Eric.

  48. Ghost says:

    Don’t see Rios, Pence or Schierholtz as being really worthy of replacing Martin. Martin did get on and win Game 1 for us today. Heck, Schierholtz isn’t even a righty bat. What we need is another righty.

    Startling Marte is eventually destined for the middle of the lineup. If Presley can surprise us, maybe Marte can be moved to No. 5, sooner rather than later.

    (Marte has been looking more patient up there in the 1 spot, though…)

  49. DemonDachshund says:

    I thought we’d moved past the “FREE AAAA PLAYER HITTING WELL IN INDY!” phase.

  50. Frank says:

    AAAA applies to players that have had their shot. Do you have a time machine or just need practice coming up with relevant snark?

  51. DemonDachshund says:

    They aren’t getting Pence. As others have mentioned, the Giants will get a compensation pick for him if they hang onto him, and the Bucs won’t give up the prospects to match that.

    Schierholtz is a lefty, and has an OPS of .560 in 32 ABs against lefties this year. The Bucs already have Garrett Jones.

    Rios would be my pick, but I don’t see them shelling out $18M for him for the next year and a half, especially with the minor injury he picked up.

    Maybe there’s a former first rounder, AAAA hitter sitting in someone else’s minors they’ll add.

  52. Ghost says:

    Freeing someone else’s AAAA player — that WOULD be the underwhelming goo Plan has been warning us about.

  53. DemonDachshund says:

    Taking the wild shot in the dark that a guy who’s struggled in AA since 2009 is not suddenly any more of an answer at the MLB level just because he’s had a good few months than Matt Hague or Jeff Clement were when they experienced similar minor league success.

    But hey, he’s had 46 whole games of AAA experience. Let’s give him a shot in August of a pennant race!

  54. Ghost says:

    I get that you were probably joking; not going after you with above remark. But Neal did do just that (acquire a AAAA player) last year — Travis Snider.

  55. Ed says:

    I was there last afternoon/evening. First doubleheader that I’ve been to since around ’91 against the Dodgers. I noticed people of all ages taking it in. Got the chills, just a bit, when the crowd was chanting for Pedro when he was at bat. It was the most alive that I’ve ever seen the place. Pennant fever has become a full blown epidemic!

    Just an absolutely phenomenal performance by the pitching staff. Maybe, partly, just catching the Cards at the right time, but I think these Pirates have come to make a statement this week.

    I really hope Schierholtz is the one that the Pirates get. A LH bat with some pop. If not, I’d be happy with Byrd. He’s having a nice season. Maybe Pence, if the price isn’t too high. Absolutely no to Rios, someone who seems to have a problem with motivation at times, not to mention a hefty contract.

  56. Eric Bowser says:

    If Giants want a first round value, Pirates have prospects pool to get that deal done.

    It doesn’t have to be Taillon or Polanco but plenty of others in organization to make a deal work for both sides.

  57. Ghost says:

    Just say “no.”

  58. JohninOshkosh says:

    Is Derrick a Marvel Man ? DC ? Underground, Alternatives and Independents ? I need to know this to submit a quality question.

  59. Ghost says:

    My final post:

    Because I’m a ghost, I was able to stand there when Sanchez and Cumpton had their little meeting right before the first pitch.

    Sanchez: “Dude! Like, they just gave us two the keys to the car!”
    Cumpton: “Dude, I know! Isn’t this awesome?”
    Sanchez: “Whoa! Look at all these people!”
    Cumpton: “Pretty cool.”
    Sanchez: Maaaannnn ………..
    Cumpton: “Okay, Dude. You can go back behind the plate now…”
    Sanchez: “Oh right. By the way, that dude Ghost who posts on Dejan’s blog — he’s the funniest, most insightful one.”
    Cumpton: “Plus MANY, Dude.”

  60. Daquido_Bazzini says:

    It’s been a long time coming, but the PIrates look more and more like they are for real this year.
    I agree about adding a RF and maybe one bench addition, but that should be it.
    This team is jelling too well to turn over more than one or two players on the roster.

  61. kr70 says:

    that Cumpton guy is a pretty good pick-up!

  62. Brandie says:

    Sanchez: “And he’s great with a pair of scissors.” (Costume reference)

  63. JoeyBats says:

    Hoka Hey everyone!
    Pirates win…Pirates win…….WHAT AN AWESOME DAY YESTERDAY WAS!!! ….LXIV wins down, …and XVIII to go.
    Yes, GM Neal and Mgr. Clint ….82 wins DOES make a difference.
    Beat Em’ Bucs !
    PS: Great to be in 1st place ANYTIME….better to be in first place in October. ;-)

  64. Drew71 says:


  65. Drew71 says:

    Dejan. You call THAT a shot?

    Have I taught you NOTHING? Make it PERSONAL.

    Sheesh. That “shot” was like bunting with two outs.

  66. John Lease says:

    The Presley haters won’t be satisfied until some breaking down old man like Hunter Pence is here?

    Prepare to be unsatisfied. He’s here for the rest of the season.

    Now, if the Giants want to give up Pence for Tabata? Fine.

    But not a top prospect. Not worth it.

  67. Drew71 says:

    Give Lambo a chance.

    In spring training.

    NOT in the middle of a FREAKIN PLAYOFF RACE

  68. John Lease says:

    Oh, and one more thing. Barmes now hitting .275 for July.

    I’d guess his vision isn’t too good anymore, he’s hitting.282 in day games and .186 at night.

    Over his career he’s been .247 day, .249 at night.

    Last year he hit .280 during the day and .201 at night.

    He’s Wayne Gross, without the power, reborn.

  69. Thundercrack says:


  70. Thundercrack says:

    There is a difference in the prospects. I don’t think anyone is saying ‘can’t give up a prospect’.

    Prospect #50 is a lot different than prospect #5

  71. Thundercrack says:

    Last night I meant to wrete:

    If NH comes out after the deadline and says “Chicago wanted Glasnow in any deal for Rios, so I decided NOT to make that trade” I will not be underwhelmed.

  72. BillyBaduka says:

    Double ditto.

    Let’s go Bucs!

  73. Thundercrack says:

    DK: Hey, all, just want you to know I’ve peered into my Nostradamus lens, and the future TC — circa 4:01 p.m. today — is fine with whatever the Pirates just did at the deadline. Big megastar bat? Fine with him. Nothing at all? Okey-doke. Trading McCutchen and Marte for a reliever? Let’s move on.

    Sorry to be the spoiler. I get to take my own shots, too, on occasion. :)
    1) Never said or hinted that I would fine with ‘nothing at all’. That would only be OK with me if the ask from the other team – for one of those underwhelming names – was too high. If they want to trade some top prospects for Cliff Lee I am more than cool with that.

    2) ‘Trading McCutchen annd Marte for a reliever.’ A thought like that never came from me. You say you were peering into your Nostradamus lens – if I didn’t know you better I would think you were peering into a emptied bourbon bottle.

    3) ‘Sorry to be the spoiler’. Spoiler? I have another term that I would use.

  74. Bob Hasis says:

    I suppose anything short of Clemente’s second coming will not please certain people around these parts.

    That’s too bad.

    I will not carry Presley’s baton any further than I already have. I’ve taken my stand. For this series at least, he managed a “Veni, vedi, vici”. Not HofF stuff, but more than has been displayed for a while. He disappointed no one, but not everyone is satisfied – let alone convinced.

    The cost; a plane ticket from Indy. Not one future star needed to be jettisoned.

    The cynicism, pessimism and doubt of those who choose it abounds in all of its uncertainty.

    You wanted a bench – you got it and a whole lot more. It was there to behold.


    I think I’ll go have a coffee and read about the renaissance on Mazeroski Way.

  75. Jandy says:

    he and Cumpton made a great team.

  76. Jandy says:

    A game ball too, way to go Alexandre!

  77. Jandy says:

    What about prospect #25?

  78. Jandy says:

    Pattin yourself on the back eh, Ghostie?
    Good stuff !! :)

  79. Jandy says:

    Go ahead. Say it. I DARE you :P

  80. Jandy says:

    You KNOW you WANT to! :p

  81. Jandy says:

    Cream and sugar, Bob?

  82. Nate83 says:

    The problem is pence isn’t that good and either is Rios. They are not difference makers. You don’t give up a talent like Glasnow or Hanson for 3 months of a guy who is not a difference maker and is only marginally better then what we have. Hredia, Dickerson, Lambo, Herrara maybe even kingham fine but not those top 4 for a 3 month barely above average rental. I pass.

  83. Thundercrack says:

    A quick check on Pirate Prospects has a list of the top 20 prospects in our system:

    20. Blake Taylor, LHP, GCL Pirates (0-1, 1.13)

    What would he bring us back? What would he and whoever is #25 bring us back? Not as much as Tyler Glasnow (#3) would bring us.

  84. Thundercrack says:

    I have —in the privacy of my own home.

    I just don’t get that guy sometimes.

  85. JAL says:

    JAL’s Climb Every Mountain Morning Links


    1- MLB Transactions

    2-MLB Trade Rumors-Pirates

    3 Go Buccos- Pirate News (from external sources)

    4 Pittsburgh Pirates Stats

    5 2013 Pittsburgh Pirates Draft Pick Signing Tracker

    BLOGS and such

    6—Pirates Prospects

    First Pitch: Will There Be a Trade? Do the Pirates Even Need One?

    Cumpton’s Gem Leads Pirates to 6-0 Win, Doubleheader Sweep of Cardinals

    Game 1: A.J. Burnett Sits Cardinals Down for 2-1 Pirates Victory

    Prospect Watch: Strong Pitching Dominates Tuesday Night

    7 Bucs Dugout

    Pirates crush Cardinals like it’s nothing

    Tony Sanchez emotional after debut at catcher


    Game 106: Pirates 6 Cardinals 0

    Game 105: Pirates 2 Cardinals 1

    9 The Green Weenie

    Let’s Play Two: Bucs Sweep 6-0

    10 Rumbunter

    Pirates offense coming to life

    Francisco Liriano: Cy Young Candidate

    11 Raise the Jolly Roger

    Pirates 2, Cardinals 1 … and Pirates 6, Cardinals 0

  86. JAL says:

    NEWSPAPERS and MAGAZINES and Other Media

    12 Yahoo Sports

    Pittsburgh Pirates Are Breaking Records, but the Best Is yet to Come

    13 St. Louis Post Dispatch

    Molina headed to DL after Cards are swept

    14 Beaver County Times

    Pirates Insider: Bucs sweep doubleheader

    15 Belleville News Democrat

    Pirates drill Cardinals 6-0 to sweep doubleheader

    16 CBS Sports

    Pirates v Cardinals Game Preview

    17 KDKA

    MLB Network’s Larry Bowa: Pirates Are Good Enough As Is

    18 PBC Site

    Pirates take twin bill, solidify perch atop Central

    Bucs new kings of Central thanks to Presley


    19 Baseball Prospectus

    Matt Harvey’s First Year, Historically Speaking

    20 Fangraphs

    Red Sox Gain Peavy, Lose Little

  87. JAL says:

    Steelers Blogs

    21 Behind the Steel Curtain

    Steelers Jarvis Jones: ‘I brought it’ in Backs on ‘Backers drill

    Dick LeBeau preparing Steelers defense for up-tempo offenses

    22 Steelers Depot

    - Jonathan Dwyer: Leaner Doesn’t Mean Starter, Or Even A Roster Spot


    23 Daily Mail

    United ready to smash their transfer record with third bid for Fabregas worth £35m

    24 World Soccer Daily

    World Soccer Daily: 10 stories you need to read, 30th July, 2013

  88. JAL says:

    Climb Every Mountain from The Sound of Music . Replaced My Fair Lady as the top selling album in 1968

  89. Jandy says:

    TC, look at it this way…if he didn’t like or appreciate you, he wouldn’t target you :)

  90. Jandy says:

    These Buccos are climbing…sure hope they keep on doing it!

  91. Bdubb says:

    Don’t the Cubs owe the Pirates at least one trade where the Bucs get a ML-ready player and we only have to give up unwanted players (Ramirez trade…Randall Simon trade). It has been 10 years. Time to pay up

  92. Drew71 says:

    Yeah. What Jandy said.

    Call him “Thunder”, Thunder.

    No wait. That would be a Term Too Far.

  93. Bob Hasis says:

    Just a splash of cream, then I stick my finger in it

  94. Jandy says:

    Drew’s rolling already…keep up the good work Drew Dahling ;)

  95. Jandy says:

    LOL done. I’m not going on with that one….lol.
    I was thinking of you when Presley won Game One for us….good call, Bob.

  96. tdb1977 says:

    Its going to take some sort of collapse to reach my prediction of 77 wins this year. Its another day and I still cannot get my whole mind wrapped around being in first place. I asked my wife if yesterday really happened when I woke up this morning. Before she could answer, MLB Network was playing the highlights from Game 1 and we both sat there and watched again. Its a really freaking awesome day to be a Pirates fan this morning.

  97. Bob Hasis says:

    He just plays baseball with a skill, desire and hustle. It is obvious to me. More so than Snider, Tabby and all of the whomevers.
    Thanks for thinking of me

  98. Jandy says:

    I’m gonna miss Matt Cooke. Classy guy.
    One last person I spotted outside the ballpark: ex-Penguins winger Matt Cooke, enjoying his last week in Pittsburgh. The movers arrive Saturday. He’s off to Minnesota.

    Cooke was with his 9-year-old son, Jackson, who was dressed in a Neil Walker jersey. The Walkers and Cookes are neighbors, which means Jackson gets to play a game of backyard catch with Neil every once in a while.

    Cooke smiled as he told that story. His son was eager to get into the game. Cooke nodded toward him and said, “This is his sport.”

    Read more:
    Follow us: @triblive on Twitter | triblive on Facebook

  99. Jandy says:

    Yes, Presley plays with HEART.

    Enjoy your coffee, Bob :)

  100. Jandy says:

    That number was used loosely, TC. What I meant was, not our top guys, but not all the way down to #50 either.

    I am leaning with the don’t trade the farm theory. If a lesser prospect gets us someone decent, fine. If not, stay put and go with who you have.

  101. Thundercrack says:

    So you are preparing to be underwhelmed


  102. Drew71 says:

    That’s 99% accurate, Jandy.

    I’ve saved the 1% for a snarky comment. From SOMEbody.

    When he wakes at noon.

  103. Drew71 says:

    So in other words…you’d be whelmed?

  104. DJ says:

    Of Rios, Pence and Schierholtz, and considering the expected asking prices for the first two, control/no control, salaries moving forward/free agency, I would be okay with Schierholtz. Not ideal because another left-handed bat but I would consider it an upgrade. No way would I be giving up Taillon, Polanco, Glasnow, Bell or Hanson. They want Kingham, I’d do it.

    The Wild Card has driven the asks by selling teams into the stratosphere. Wish we were in the same situation in our “out of it by May” years.

  105. pattonbb says:

    Nate Shierholtz kills RH pitching. OK, “kills” might be an exaggeration, but he hits RH pitchng with power. The Cards and Reds, who we have a combined 17 more games against, are loaded with RH pitching.

    I’d have no problem seeing Nate come to Pittsburgh for a couple mid-tier prospects.

  106. Mark says:

    I love Presley’s hustle. Always have. Go Bucs!

  107. Karen22 says:

    Me neither – and that’s a good thing!

  108. Drew71 says:

    Ok. Nate Schierholtz.

    A .270 BA, .750 career. OPS+ 103.

    Slightly above average. Which I guess is better than what they have.

    But has anybody considered what we would do to the spelling of his name?

    I mean. We can’t even get McCutcheon right.

  109. Karen22 says:

    What a thrill for you, Alexandre!

  110. Jandy says:


  111. Karen22 says:


  112. The Gunner says:


    I am definitely in your camp about Presley. Let the boy play for God’s sake!

  113. Wild Bill says:

    A question folks, not about who’s coming, but about who’s leaving. If we deal prospects for a bat, someone has to go. At first, that can be Presley, but soon the Fort is eligible to come off the DL. Somebody has to go. Whom should it be? Maybe someone off the roster goes with the trade?

  114. Jandy says:

    You might say that, TC :P

  115. Jandy says:

    Yeah, that “someone” is on a roll, too LOL

  116. Jandy says:

    Happy birthday, Geno!

  117. BillyBaduka says:

    +82 and beyond

  118. SeanAY says:


  119. BillyBaduka says:

    Happy birthday, Geno!

  120. NMR says:

    Hahaha, excellent Dejan.

    And yeah, I know I’m next. :)

  121. likeabugonarug says:


  122. Nate83 says:

    It’s possible Tabata would be part of a trade. I really don’t see much on our 40 man that a selling team would want. They ussually want prospects. Maybe Sands is a throw in to open a 40 man spot up for the Pirates.

    Players like Lambo and DeJesus are already not on the 40 man. I’m not sure what the time clock is on those guys in terms of having to be protected but the Pirates may have some tough decisions to make next year for the 40 man and could lose some quality depth in their minors. I could definately see them giving up on Snyder, JMac and Sands and leaving them off of the 40 man next year.

  123. likeabugonarug says:

    And that is why I don’t see much happening, either. The names aren’t impact players. It’s almost like making a trade just to say you made a trade. No, I’m not thrilled with what we have right now, but I’ll be even less thrilled if we give up a lot to get someone who isn’t a heads-over-heels improvement over what we have.


  124. JHadar says:

    Well, whatever they do this afternoon, there’s a game this evening,eh?

    I wonder if the Cardinals are still all loose and proclaiming “it’s only July” or if they’re starting to worry a bit. Dare I ask a question with the word “sustainable” in it? or wonder if the run differential has changed since it last came up . . . ?

    When we were down “wins are the only stat that matters” was the answer to anyone who was seeing some potential. But having said that, we’ve waited a long time to put a pitching staff together — and now we need some offense. Right field is the obvious place to go looking for it — but we’re definitely talking an expensive rental — and keeping Tabata, Presley and yes even Snider in the system for when the lease is up. All three have shown tantalizing flashes of what they might become with a little age and experience. Major league ball players generally take a while longer to come to the full than players in other games.

    But this season does matter. A sweep would be sweet, and while we’re at it could someone please knock Neal’s socks off with an offer that plays out right. Asking a lot, I know — but here we are and who’da thunk it.


  125. Jandy says:

    Glad you’re ready, NMR, cuz karma is a beyotch and she will come round and chomp you in da rear ;)

  126. Jandy says:

    I think after 20 years, we are entitled to ask a lot!

  127. DJ says:

    If we could get a RF upgrade and get rid of Tabata in a single trade, that would be ideal.

  128. TJ says:

    Wonder if we could get Toronto to take Snider back for Bautista?

    Tongue firmly in cheek on that one. But I’m not blown away by Rios at all.

    The thing that intrigues me about Pence is that he is a high energy, never give up type of guy that might fit in better “chemistry” wise than a lets dog it down the line guy like Rios.

    Obviously I don’t watch a ton of Rios but I can remember them constantly pointing to Pence when the Giants were against the wall numerous times in the playoffs last year.

  129. Matt hoffman says:

    I agree with you Bob and I said it the other day. I really like Presley and have so all along. I cannot understand why people are so down on him! I am not saying he is an all-star, but he has speed and a little pop. (Not to mention, we know he won’t ever get suspended for using PED’s, you can tell that by looking at him).

  130. TJ says:

    I like Presley; but don’t think he’s the every day answer in RF. However if it came down to it I would rather see more of him than Tabata or Snider (whom there is a lot to see)

  131. DJ says:

    I respectfully disagree on keeping Tabata and Snider in particular. We seen enough of the sample size now and they aren’t cutting it. They are punchless RFs. Presley, if there were no better options, I would have on our bench to fill multiple outfield positions and pinch hit.

  132. Nate83 says:


    It depends on what your definition of getting the job done is. Yours may be different then TC and different then mine. If the definition is getting a right fielder at any cost then yes he may fall short of getting the job done.

    If balancing the needs of the team right now and the future well being of the franchise is his job and he does nothing because he recognized the market didn’t allow the Pirates to get a right field upgrade at a reasonable price then he did his job.

    I’m sure there is a Plan A: Pence, Plan B:Rios, Plan C:Schierholtz and Plan D:Someone we don’t know about in place. They know what they are willing to give up and they will just move on to the next plan if the other plans are not working out. If at 4:00 they look up and see that they are out of plans and didn’t get anyone who’s to say they didn’t do their job.

    In my opinion their job as the front office of a small market team is to do what is in the best interest of the team now while not sacrificing the long term goals of the team. There is no signing a free agent to 120 million contract to cover up past careless trades of prospects when you are a small market team. Everyone’s opinion may be different but that is my two cents (probably closer to 5 cents)

  133. Thundercrack says:

    I just got the spelling of Ronny Cedeno right

  134. DJ says:

    Whatever happens today, the one thing I absolutely don’t want to see today is Neal make a trade because he feels obligated to make a trade because we are in a pennant race. If the asking price is just too high, I say don’t pull the trigger.

  135. JHadar says:


    If Polanco is the real deal then yeah, cut ‘em loose . . . but that’s a year or two away.

    Tabata and Presley ARE streaky.

  136. NMR says:

    Don’t know the guy, so I’m not gonna defend his attitude or character…

    But having watched the last 20 years of Pirate baseball, I know there is a world of emotional difference between playing in a pennant race and winding down the dog days of summer on a last place team going nowhere.

    Last time the Pirates acquired a guy with supposed attitude problems, he became the leader of the team. It is allllll about context.

  137. DJ says:

    I could easily see Polanco being here mid-2014. That’s the long-term answer and that’s a good enough timetable for me. Tabata and Snider do not have the mental make-up — let alone the batting skills — to be everyday players.

  138. Matt hoffman says:

    I would have loved to see Cumpton get the complete game shutout last night. I wonder now if maybe we could part with Major League ready pitching to get offensive help AND position player prospects!!! I am sure there are several American League teams needing GOOD pitching. I don’t understand why GM’s feel like that can’t trade on an even level of talent depending on other teams positional needs?

  139. Thundercrack says:

    Yes, but the guy with an attitude problem before AJ was Lastings Milledge.

    But his bigger problem was that he wasn’t that good.

  140. NMR says:

    Hey Daq, I don’t know if you even pay attention to me, but I owe you an apology from the old Smiz blog.

    We’ll agree to disagree on the whole “regime” business, but you aren’t running away from the teams success and giving them their due. I’m sure at some point or another I acused you of something you didn’t deserve in that regard.

  141. Jim S. says:

    No, they need a left handed power bat in RF to pair with Tabata. If they can get an everyday RF, great. But, that option doesn’t seem available and they are unwilling to overpay for it. So, go for a lefty hitter and pair him with Tabata. Tabata will only be playing 20% of the time against LHP.

  142. Jim S. says:

    Your timing is impeccable!!!

  143. chethejet says:

    Since the Pirates even if I thought Rios was worth a move, that contract is just not something the Bucs want to swallow. Now if a great deal can be made with the Sox eating 4-5 million next year and not getting any top 5 pitching prospects, I can certainly see that. I am Ok with not making a bad deal and seeing what the markets look like in the off season. Polanco will be here at some point and the need is for a RH power bat at first or at least someone better than Sanchez.

  144. NMR says:

    And neither was the team. Which was my point.

  145. Jim S. says:


  146. I really can’t complain! :) And I bought my tickets in April, if I recall correctly!

  147. DJ says:

    If Tabata were “streaky” as a doubles or HR hitter, that would be one thing. There’s absolutely no place for an everyday streaky singles hitter in RF.

  148. Thanks, guys! It’s been some time since I got this lucky at a stadium. I went to my soccer team’s last four or five games before coming to the us, and they were all losses! So it’s better to wait until tonight’s outcome before kidnapping me, or you can get contaminated by that bad luck, too. hahahahaha

  149. Jim S. says:

    Great wins last night. Yes, plural … Wins! How cool is that?

    Why does everyone keep saying the need is for a power hitting right-handed hitting RF? People look at Tabata’s production, coupled with Snider (or Presley) and rightly say we need an upgrade. I get that part. No question about it. But, in the NL Central right now, the left-handed part of the equation gets approx. 80% of the ABs. Let that sink in for a second.

    Tabby does NOT have to play so much If we find the right guy to pair with him. He only starts 20-25% of the time and the other half (the lefty half) starts approx. 80% of the time in a true platoon in RF. So, while an everyday RF that hits lefties and righties equally well would be great, lots of luck finding that guy. His name is not Pence or Rios, and, by the way, those guys are way too expensive. And, for good measure, Pence is begging SF not to trade him but rather to extend his contract.

    It also means Jones and Sanchez move to the full-time 1b platoon they are both suited for. So, no more Sanchez struggling vs. RHP. He will bat vs. LHP, whom he hits very well. GIJ will only start vs. RHP, who his history says he will hit very well.

    The Pirates know all this, and I believe they have been posturing to get a good lefty bat for RF. But, they may still not over-pay for that guy. No matter how frustrated Pirates fans may be over the last 20 years, the team still has to have an eye on the future.

  150. War Horse says:

    The best solution to the RF issue, if NH can’t get a good all-around player in time, might be to play Presley against RHP and Tabata against lefties and as a fair to good bat off the bench. Alex keeps getting better.

  151. Jason says:

    Does anyone remember when the NL Central was a joke of a division? Breaking .500 used to guarantee you a division championship.

  152. AJS says:

    Needs some polish on defense. Looks uncomfortable blocking some pitches. Did well enough at it with Cumpton who he is familiar with but 2 passed balls from Jenny. Maybe just time to learn the pitchers solves that. I don’t know.

  153. SeanAY says:

    This post. +1.

  154. Sisyphus says:

    I’m pretty sure that the White Sox heartily agree with you. Pirate fans, not so much.

    Why is it that so many people cannot seem to recognize that Rios and Tabata are of basically the same value offensively this year?

  155. AJS says:

    And you think Glasnow is going to be anywhere near pittsburgh in either of those two seasons. i get he is a great prospect. But I am not sure he needs to be put in the same light as a Taillon. The nice thing about the Pirates pitching is they have a lot of it. Giving up one of the A ball or AA bal prospects is not that bad of a deal.

    These are the asking prices this year. For the marginal talent that is out there. They absolutely NEED a RF. I don’t care if it is left handed or right handed as long as it can play every day. I am not on board with a lefty to platoon with Tabata. That’s just insane.

  156. JohninOshkosh says:

    Yesterday, Billy Beane traded a former first round pick, and eight overall Athletics prospect (Baseball America) to a team within their division for a guy, Alberto Callaspo, who has actually played in 850+ major league games and is owed 4.75 million next year.

    Hmm, I did not know that. Small market teams can do such things. Who’d thunk it.

  157. Jim S. says:

    ++. Excellent, DJ.

  158. Dom says:

    Remember, Tabata was supposed to have a massive ego problem and look at him now, as humble as one can be.

    I think someone’s attitude is completely overblown by the fan base.

  159. Milo Hamilton says:

    I’m not much for lists but here’s mine for today in order of priority.

    1. Cliff Lee – can’t get anymore specific than that.
    2. A bat – 1B or RF, preferably lefthanded.
    3. Bullpen Depth – 8th inning guy or a LOOGY
    4. Backup Catcher – address it before God forbid something happens to Martin.
    5. Pinch Hitter Guy – Dioner Navarro takes care of #4 & #5.
    6. Shortstop – always looking

    That’s it, that’s the list.

  160. Milo Hamilton says:

    Oh, and a 3rd base coach. :)

  161. War Horse says:

    Get Barmes to the opticians for an eye test!

  162. Thundercrack says:

    The ‘trading within the division’ part really surprised me.

    If they haven’t done it already the Angels are waiving the white flag on this season.

  163. SeanAY says:

    The wisdom of that move, though, has yet to be seen.

  164. Sisyphus says:

    Sometimes decent players with long track records of success don’t work out either. See Ludwick, Ryan.

    You do have to give something to get something. Problem is, the somethings that keep getting mentioned are really not much better than the somethings we already have, and a heckuva lot worse than the somethings that are being demanded in return.

  165. theplanisworking says:


  166. Dom says:

    Ken Rosenthal believes that Buccos could be in on a deal of David DeJesus from the Cubs.

  167. You just made the Hasis Hall of Fame with that remark.


  168. AJS says:

    Balancig the needs of the team now with the strength of the franchise in the future.

    I get that. But here is the thing. You also NEED a RF for the future. Or at least for the remainder of this season and next.

    The name of this game is winning championships right? And even if you hold on to these prospects like Glasnow and wait on Polanco sure you might win a championship in 3 or 4 years. Or the rest of the league could get better and you don’t. Or you could have a rash of injuries and you don’t.

    Today, right now, you have a legitimate chance of winning a championship. Adding a RF absolutely makes the chances of that go up.

    Glasnow for Rios would be a high price. Like Eric I would prefer Pence but it really seems like that isn’t going to happen. I doubt Glasnow would be in play for Shierholtz.

    But by alll means lets get overly attached to the prospects in the top 10 and declare them untradable. You will never et any deal for any significant player with that attitude. Rios is not going to be a huge splash, but he is definitely an upgrade and can play every day. Glasnow, Kingham, whoever. As long is it is just one f the arms and not several I’m fine with that. It is one guy who is two years away at best.

  169. Sisyphus says:

    They don’t absolutely need a RF like Rios.

  170. NMR says:


  171. AJS says:

    Not this again.

  172. AJS says:

    See: Marte, Starling

    He was the big “answer” in left last year. And in his first major league showing he homered. Then promptly did nothing. Of course the rest of the team went in the can after that too so ya.

  173. AJS says:

    You want to test a guy while in the middle of a penant race? you test guys in May or June. you don’t test them in August while you are trying to make the playoffs.

  174. Sisyphus says:

    There is an enormous difference between “stand pat” and “don’t overpay for mediocrity”.

  175. Mizery says:

    This might have already been posted, but I was all for trading for Rios until he hurt his knee yesterday. Even if it was just a tweak it would still make me nervous giving up substantial prospects for him. Great timing to say the least.

  176. AJS says:

    And prospect number 50 is going to get you a bag of baseballs and a how do you do? Not a RF of any value. Heck, prospect #50 probably wouldn’t get you tabata!

  177. Jim S. says:

    Here’s what I think about last night:

    * AJ needs to do a better job of controlling himself on the mound, but … why do these umps feel like they need to confront players? AJ is pitching in the biggest game of the year for the Pirates, and he gestures that the ump missed a call (which he did), and the homeplate ump practically charges the mound? Then, while Russell Martin works to calm down the homeplate ump, the 3b ump decides to start in on AJ? Unbelievable.

    * AJ pitched a gem, by the way.

    * The disparity in speed and defense in the Pirates OF compared to the Cards outfield is startling. It was all on full display yesterday. The unseen value of the Pirates is defensive positioning and defense in general. It doesn’t show up in box scores, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t a fact.

    * My first “what was Russell Martin thinking?” moment of the year occurred during that sequence. I get that you thought the ball was fouled, Russell, but don’t go all Chuck Knoblauch and watch runners circle the bases while you plead your case. Unacceptable. He has been so great defensively, though, that I easily look past that one gaffe.

    * BTW, what is the correct ruling there? I thought if you swing and strikeout at a ball that also hits you as a batter: a) You are out on strikes; and b) the ball is in play. But, I don’t know for sure. I didn’t think the ball should be ruled dead there, but Greg Brown seemed to think so. The umps got together and allowed Jay to stay on 2b.

    * Cumpton was something like our 13th best option as starting pitcher yesterday. He has now come up from Indy and spot-started, I think, 4x. Each time he has pitched fairly well. Yesterday, he pitched brilliantly. He is nowhere near our best pitching prospect. Nowhere near. That, my friends, is depth.

    * Liriano and Gomez were obtained very cheaply in the off-season when every other team had the chance to obtain them. No one saw in them what the Pirates saw. That is competent scouting. Time for everyone to stop acting as though the Bucs are still the Bucs of the last 20 years from a scouting and development standpoint. The evidence is mounting that they know what they are doing.

    * The best player, by far, on the Cards took himself out of the game and is going on the DL. He is the key to their young pitching staff staying on track. The Cards will miss Yadi a lot!

    These are just my opinions, of course. I respect differing viewpoints.

  178. Milo Hamilton says:


  179. AJS says:

    Defie over pay. Is “market value” over paying? Because market values are higher than normal this year because the merchandise is lower quality.

  180. JohninOshkosh says:

    Boy, I could not be more with you regarding Lee.

    I have said for some time that the Pirates should be considering the WS THIS YEAR. I don’t think it is a matter of if the Pirates make the playoffs at this point. They need to think about their rotation in the playoffs, when pitching is paramount. I could not see the Pirates having an extended losing streak with Lee added to their rotation. Plus you could march Lee and Liriano and Burnett out there for the playoffs. That is a tough assignment for any team.

    Don’t care if he is a rental and I wouldn’t blink an eye at any minor leaguer, or his ranking they sent, to Philly. The sound of the National League and World Series Champion pennants flapping over PNC would drown out any concerns.

  181. theplanisworking says:


  182. AJS says:

    Does marte really have the power to be a middle of the line up guy? Maybe a #3 guy if he can get his average up. But Cutch will man that spot for years to come hopefully.

  183. Jim S. says:

    I’m with you big time on #2, #4, #5, for sure, Milo. Great point about backup C and a pinch hitter. I like Michael Young as a bench guy. Can spell Pedro, Neil, 1b, or OF.

  184. NMR says:

    Morning, Jim!

    You make a great point about LH vs. RH acquisition, and from an aggregate numbers point of view I absolutely agree.

    But at this point in the race, the team HAS to look at game management. What in the heck is Clint Hurdle supposed to do after the 6th inning when given a lineup that includes Walker, Pedro, Jones, PLUS another LH bat and only one RH pinch hitter (Gaby) that can be reasonably expected to succeed?

    There’s simply no way he could make out a lineup that isn’t easily neutered by a lefty reliever. He almost has to think about benching Mercer simply for his ability to pinch hit against a lefty.

    I’m fine with getting Schierholtz or another lefty platoon bat, but only if another righty for the bench follows.

  185. JohninOshkosh says:

    Yes. I agree with regards to the Angels.

  186. Jim S. says:

    He is an alternative to Schierholtz, so that doesn’t surprise me.

    Milo also adroitly mentioned Ryan Sweeney last week. He is another possibility.

  187. SeanAY says:

    The reason they won’t trade for Lee is because he WOULDN’T be a rental. He’s owed $50M over the next two seasons. There’s no way the Pirates pick up that tab.

  188. Karen22 says:

    HAHA!! AGREE!!

  189. TJ says:

    This might just show you how bare the market is. Callaspo is far from a star but the A’s third basemen have combined for an average lower than Clint Barmes so an upgrade was needed.

    Someone mentioned panic moves this past week; who knows how Green turns out but this is a bit of a weird one to me. Career .274 hitter with 42 HR and .334 OBP?

  190. SeanAY says:

    And with the A’s. Admittedly I don’t watch many west coast games, but the guy’s numbers aren’t special.

  191. TJ says:

    Here is my question on the whole passed ball/strike out situation…. How is it that NOT ONE of the umpires on the field saw anything? Not one?

  192. JohninOshkosh says:

    I did not know MLB instituted a salary cap or prevented trading him at the upcoming Winter Meetings.

  193. TJ says:

    If you swing at a ball and it hits you; your out.

  194. TJ says:

    For those of you who have not seen it…. This is Chad Qualls summed up

  195. TJ says:

    I say bring back Vander Wal

  196. JohninOshkosh says:

    Just being a bit snarky, Sean. I apologize. Lee coming here is never going to happen.

  197. kr70 says:

    speaking of Clemente, for those of us who saw him play do you see some of the same mannerisms at the plate? when he swings his head back and forth pure Roberto

  198. kr70 says:

    talking about Marte

  199. Jim S. says:

    I know that part TJ. I should have been clearer. Is the ball dead at that point? Brown seemed to think so. I think it is a live ball, and that seems to be what the umps decided. Just wondered if anyone knew for sure.

  200. kr70 says:

    Jandy needs to work on darling

  201. Jandy says:


  202. TJ says:

    ball is dead; your out. They deemed it did not hit the batter thus the ball was in play.

  203. Jandy says:

    One word…CHOICE

  204. SeanAY says:

    I’ve been torn on the subject because I think you’re both making good points.

    On one hand, yeah, you need to break the line-up up from a game management standpoint. On the other, you’ll see a preponderance of right-handed pitching, so you need the lefty bat.

    In light of the fact that the Pirates are checking out DeJesus, maybe the Pirates are aiming to do the same thing some have talked about here: acquire DeJesus to lead off and drop Marte to a run producing spot in the order.

    Pros and cons to that approach, though. It nullifies Marte’s speed and puts pressure on him to drive in runs. On the other hand, his free swinging might actually become less damaging, because getting on base is less essential than driving the ball.


    Or, you could just put him at #2 and have lightning on the base paths at the top of the order.


    That whole thought process might not make a whole lot of sense.

  205. kr70 says:

    playing like he has been playing could be humbling

  206. Jandy says:

    * My first “what was Russell Martin thinking?” moment of the year occurred during that sequence. I get that you thought the ball was fouled, Russell, but don’t go all Chuck Knoblauch and watch runners circle the bases while you plead your case. Unacceptable. He has been so great defensively, though, that I easily look past that one gaffe.

  207. theplanisworking says:

    ROFL or WAFFLE? ;)

    Morning Prospect #1.

  208. Jandy says:

    I was screaming at Russ martin to go get the d*mn ball! Whatever the umpires thought, he still needs the presence of mind to do whatever it takes to help the team. Throw a fit later.

  209. Jandy says:

    Amaing that only the 4 umpires on the field didn’t see it hit the batter. Everyone else did.

  210. Milo Hamilton says:

    Has anyone noticed how well he’s pitching ?

  211. Jandy says:

    * Liriano and Gomez were obtained very cheaply in the off-season when every other team had the chance to obtain them. No one saw in them what the Pirates saw. That is competent scouting. Time for everyone to stop acting as though the Bucs are still the Bucs of the last 20 years from a scouting and development standpoint. The evidence is mounting that they know what they are doing.

    I give a lot of credit to Searage for this.

  212. Jandy says:

    Milo is extremely adept at being adroit ;)

  213. TJ says:

    How many eyes can we have on the future? Was this year the future at last years deadline? Is next year the future at this years deadline? When is the future? We’ve gone from 5 year plans that never come to pass and now have to keep an eye on the future.

    Take a look at our division. This might be our best shot at winning the division based on the talent of the Cards/Reds and the Cubs will be coming into play again before you know it; I guarantee it.

    Its great to keep your eye on the future but someone has to keep an eye on NOW.

    Wonder what the fans in Oakland think about giving up a top prospect for Callaspo. Are they complaining about the future or are they trusting Beane and want another playoff run?

  214. Jim S. says:

    Ok, thanks TJ. So, the ump crew did blow it. I guess that is why Martin didn’t go get it, although he still should have. CH should have put up more of a fight to get the guy sent back to 1b. Very odd sequence.

  215. Nate83 says:

    The problem is Rios is not a significant player or even a consistant player. He has gone through huge slumps over his career. I am not very confident he can be a difference maker or even an improvement. By all means a difference maker is available go get him and give up Glasnow. Rios and Pence are not those guys.

    I’m not saying the entire top 10 should not be traded for Rios. I’ve been pretty consistant saying that Tiallon, Polanco, Glasnow and Hanson should not be part of a Rios trade. The other six I would be fine with. The top 4 would be a huge overpay for a guy this overpaid, inconsistant and barely above average.

  216. Jim S. says:

    I would go as far as to say he is skillfully adept at being adroit.

  217. NMR says:

    Same apology applies to you, plan, while we’re at it.

  218. TJ says:

    Not the first time Mr Qualls has had trouble staying on his feet.

  219. Jandy says:

    it’s +many

  220. SeanAY says:

    That’s quite alright. I wasn’t being snarky either. I was just saying from a practicality standpoint, they won’t be trading for Cliff Lee. I didn’t say they SHOULDN’T, necessarily.

    I’m just saying, that’s a hell of a lot of budget to pick up, and a hell of a lot of prospects to deal. I don’t see it happening. Plus, if you aren’t able to get the package you want in the winter, you’re stuck with 1/3 of payroll tied up in one guy.

  221. NMR says:


    Now is not the time to be worrying about “winning” trades. It’s time to worry about winning games.

    And before anyone does it, put your Taillon/Polanco/Glasnow strawmen away. Nobody is suggesting they be traded – straight up – for a guy like Pence, Schierholtz, or Rios.

    If “overpaying” means giving up our #11 prospect when Player X is only worth our #17 prospect, then you make the d*mn trade.

  222. AJS says:

    ilo – Youa re the first person other than my Phils fan coworker to throw out the name Cliff Lee. he made a very good argument.

    The Bucs are in position right now to go after a playoff run. You get there and you could have:



    It would likely cost Polonca and either Taillon or Glasnow if you want the Phils to eat any of the salary.

    Now. This sounds terrible right? BUT you get Lee for this year plus two more. Now lets assume that since we traded away all these sure fire prospects to do this that the team is playing OK but not really in position to win anything in 2 years. You can trade Lee away for say 70% of what you paid.

    That is not a bad spot to be in if you aske me. It certainly doesn’t address the need in right but I does give you a proven playoff performer to put in the rotation for 2 more years.

  223. Jandy says:

    Dahling kr, it’s allll in the pronunciation ;)

    It’s DAHLING ;)

  224. Jim S. says:

    I agree, TJ. They have to play for now and the future. To me, that means not giving up too much of tomorrow for now. But, it also means not missing opportunities to upgrade now. St. Louis is not making crazy splash moves, and neither is Cincy. In fact, none of the contenders except Boston and Texas have made huge moves. The Pirates are, in fact, in the majority this trading season. I would like a move that makes them better, but I don’t give up Top 10 prospects easily.

    I recognize that some people want a huge move. For this team, now, I don’t want that. I understand not everyone agrees.

    I might need one of those 12 step programs, or however many steps they are. I would have to be systematically weaned off prospect hoarding.

  225. Jandy says:

    I love it when my boys get along :)

  226. NMR says:

    That trade, along with Bauer for Gregorius last winter, shows the value of a major league shortstop.


  227. Jim S. says:

    I think he has had a lot to do with helping them pitch so well this year. And, advanced scouting gave him that opportunity.

  228. Jandy says:

    I think he does, if he just pays attention!

  229. Milo Hamilton says:

    I’m admittedly dreaming on that one. But hey, dream big I guess.

  230. Milo Hamilton says:

    I thought you were going to list his Pirate stats. He fell quite hard there too.

  231. NMR says:

    Your second lineup would be my choice, but with Barmes replacing Mercer for as long as he continues to hit.

  232. Jandy says:


  233. Bob Hasis says:

    Not yet – it’s Rony

  234. 21sthebest says:

    If the ump said it didn’t hit the batter, I’m not sure how much more Hurdle could have done.

  235. JohninOshkosh says:


  236. Jandy says:

    G’Mornin Hipposter, my friend.
    I’m laughing, Baby. I’m so sleepy I wanna go home. lol
    I turned the game on when I went to bed, and watched it. Then I couldn’t fall asleep I was so wired. Oh well, it will pass :)
    I’m happy for the Buccos

  237. Jandy says:


  238. 21sthebest says:


  239. Bas says:

    Yes Marte–and he’s only to keep getting better (remember, Roberto didn’t set the world on fire–statistically, at least–for four or five years when he came up–though he was very young–but he did show his tools and flashes of brilliance–like Starling). I love the way he carries himself.
    And WOW, did Cutch show up or what?! Awesome

  240. Jandy says:

    I’m thinking Hurdle didn’t push harder because of the AJ thing. Didn’t want to push his luck too far.
    But agree, Martin still needs to shut up and make whatever play is necessary, THEN argue.

  241. Jandy says:

    hey! A new engineering language ;)

  242. TJ says:

    Jandy well said… I’ve always maintained that the biggest concern the Pirates might have moving forward is keeping Searage.

    He is going to have to start getting looks as a potential manager if he keeps doing this type of work.

    And I said this before; if Bruce Arians can get a NFL head coaching job after one year in Indy then Searage can get one in the MLB.

  243. TJ says:

    Also had a play at 1B where the runner was safe in which Hurdle had to argue.

  244. Jandy says:

    I hope we hold onto him, he’s working minor miracles :)

  245. NMR says:

    “St. Louis is not making crazy splash moves, and neither is Cincy”

    My turning point away from Prospect Hoarding Syndrome was the realization that the line above doesn’t tell the whole story.

    Sure, the Cards and Reds aren’t making moves. But how does the Cards and Reds offensive production compare to the Pirates?

    THAT is the “ah-ha” moment.

    The Cards and Reds would love nothing more than to get into a prospect pissing match with the Pirates right now, because the Pirates need major league offense far more than either of them.

  246. Jandy says:

    Teddy Bear, thankfully, those calls didn’t impact the game for us.

  247. theplanisworking says:

    One cant fall if one never gets off the ground.

  248. Jandy says:

    OK I have been adroitly outworded. Good job, Jim S :)

  249. 21sthebest says:

    I was wondering if St. Louis blogs aren’t chastising their team for being shutout by Brandon Cumpton.

  250. TJ says:

    Jim I don’t see a huge move that would benefit this club tremendously. Rios is not a huge move to me; its a huge gamble. Lee would be a huge move but god only knows the asking price.

    The thing I would like about Lee is that he would go beyond this year. Who knows how the AJ thing plays out after this year. You got Taillon and company potentially pushing for jobs and no one knows how Wandy pitches the rest of the year and next.

    As good as the rotation has been it could just as easily go the other way next season.

  251. JohninOshkosh says:

    Vince Lombardi – “The greatest accomplishment is not in never falling, but in rising again after you fall. “

  252. TJ says:

    One comment I found interesting concerning the Cliff Lee trade scenarios. It was stated that Amaro isn’t used to being in “sell” mode on top players and thus may have stalled talks because of demands.

    Perhaps the market was set for Amaro last night with the Peavy trade.

  253. theplanisworking says:

    No, its Huntington-speak. ;)

  254. theplanisworking says:

    Isnt andriot that phone thingy??

  255. TJ says:

    Qualls should have played for Lombardi; would have been his favorite player. He falls in a sport in which your not supposed to.

  256. NMR says:

    Remember this trade next time somebody says Jose Tabata is untradeable because of his contract.

    In the big boy world, $4m/yr is not cost prohibitive.

  257. theplanisworking says:

    I am happy for the Buccos too.

    This trade deadline looms large.

    I am planning on having an “underwhelming” party. ;)

  258. Thundercrack says:

    I heard a Reds fan on XM yesterday say that he felt that the Reds had minor leaguers at 4 offensive positions.
    The hosts didn’t disagree.

  259. TJ says:

    Minor? I think Searage should be an honorary Lunatic for the work he’s done.

  260. Kevin says:

    Hey Milo, pirates are on a winning streak and started against the cards no less! Didn’t you say they haven’t won more than 2 games in a row after game#101 in X years? Cant remember the X.

  261. NMR says:

    Hunter Pence.

  262. JohninOshkosh says:

    I got vaccinated against Prospect Hoarding Syndrome (PHS) just about the time Twitter was created. My doctor warned me about it.

  263. Bob Hasis says:

    Did you notice that JHay failed to tag from 2nd on a long line drive to CF – bad base running or coaches oversight?

    Did you notice JHay lead off with a triple, and was in a rundown (and tagged out)because of an infield grounder by the next batter, and traded places for a runner at second. Bad base running or lack of coaching?

  264. Jandy says:

    true dat

  265. Jandy says:

    Makes me wonder if he has balance problems.

  266. Kevin says:

    or Rob Mackowiak… he’s a lefty bat. Only been out of baseball for couple years.

  267. Bob Hasis says:

    His only function is to touch hands with the guy who just homered. Other than that, why have him there?

  268. Milo Hamilton says:

    Yep. This is the 1st one of 3 games or more after game 100 since September 17-22 of 2010 when they won 5 straight. When they started that streak, they were 50 games under .500 (48-98). They’ve come a long way.

  269. Jandy says:

    I’m not gonna worry about the trade deadline. These guys are getting it done one way or another. What will be, will be.
    I’d like to have a consistent hitting right fielder, but…
    I won’t drive myself crazy over it.

  270. Jandy says:

    Oh Lord, the indignity of it!

  271. Thundercrack says:

    Didn’t Hurdle ask/make all the ump get together and meet about it?

  272. Jandy says:

    Agreed! :D

  273. NMR says:

    Well then its a good thing the remaining four major leaguers are good enough to produce the fourth most runs in the National League.

    Or is that no longer the goal?

  274. Jandy says:

    hahaa….androids…my daughter loves them. She works for Sprint.

  275. theplanisworking says:

    Thats because you are already crazy!

    I am not going crazy over it either………… I just want to see if neal wants to upgrade the team, or continue to hoard prospects until the end of time.
    We will see by 4 o’clock.

    Oh, and you would be missing a great party, chicken enchiladas, chips, buffalo-ranch dip, little taco muffin-cups, and booze. :)

  276. Jandy says:

    Does it hurt???

  277. Kevin says:

    We could try to bring back Ryan Doumit. He’s solve multiple positions of MILO needs. Backup catcher, right fielder, pinchhitter guy, bat, etc.

  278. Jandy says:

    I hope it’s not bacon beer ;)

  279. theplanisworking says:


  280. BidDaddy13 says:

    DK is right. A right fielder is mandatory. I would like to add another reason to his logic;

    If the Pirates do win the division, it is likely to be by a razor thin margin. And that is assuming all the bats stay healthy. What is someone the likes of Pedro, Cutch, Marte, even lesser hitter goes down for even just two weeks? We all are aware that injuries happen. If the Bucs stay put, could they withstand a even a short stint on the DL by one of their sticks? It is possible, but not probable.

    Say Cutch or Marte goes down for 2 weeks. Do you feel comfortable with Tabata and Presley in left and right field for a prolonged period? How about Pedro/Jones for two weeks? Even though a right fielder would not help in that positional spot, the bat could help compensate for the loss in production.

    The margin for error is small if the Pirates have any hopes to win the division. And does anyone feel good about a one game playoff from the wildcard spot? Adding said piece in the outfield does not guarantee a division by any stretch of the imagination. But not adding a bat is playing with fire.

    This doesn’t even take into account the absolute need for a pinch hitter off the bench late in a game.

  281. Bob Hasis says:

    Having Leyva coach at third, is a great way to begin a Keystone Kops short film.

    Total chaos without a favorable result

  282. TJ says:

    Can’t compare Lee to Pence in terms of value.

  283. Thundercrack says:

    I’m just relaying what I heard on a baseball show on XM.

    Next time I’ll call into the show and ask them to give me the contact info for the Reds caller –and you can take it up with him yourself.

  284. theplanisworking says:

    For those who dont like Rios, or want to ever give up any prospects, good news:

  285. TJ says:

    balance problems? When I was a kid they called it clumsy. Is it insensitive now a days to use that term? LOL

  286. theplanisworking says:

    No, its not.


  287. TJ says:

    I hardly see it as good news; its deadline posturing.

    At this point the Sox have already showed their hand by dealing Peavy. If they for some reason fail to deal Rios I would be shocked and it would be silly for the Pirates or any other team to say they were hot after Rios considering all that has gone on recently with him.

    Play it cool and let the price drop.

  288. Jim S. says:

    Michael Young.

  289. JohninOshkosh says:

    I love your posts, Bob. Keep em coming. But you do realize that probably 95 % of even Pittsburgh has no idea who Nick Leyva is.

  290. 21sthebest says:

    I don’t see Rios as a huge gamble. He’s better than what we have, IMO, and you’re set in right field for next year.

    I actually think we can win the division with what we have right now. I’m just skeptical of what kind of a playoff run we can make with what’s in right field right now if other players don’t produce.

  291. Bob Hasis says:

    Yeah but he lost his nomination privilege with Item #2

  292. Jim S. says:

    + many, TC. Those teams are flawed as well. St. Louis has a porous OF defense. They have a very young pitching staff.

    Cincy has had nothing much in LF all year. They have bullpen issues.

  293. 21sthebest says:

    I was wondering if anyone was going to bring that up. Harrison did the absolute correct thing on second base. He needed to make sure he could score if the ball dropped which was a higher priority than just getting to third.

    Bad base running on being caught in the rundown. He has to make sure the ball gets through first.

  294. Jim S. says:

    I don’t know about that, for certain, NMR. The Reds play in a ballpark that makes it look like they have a great offense. Their offense doesn’t seem so great when they play the Bucs. They are not lighting up the west coast teams right now.

    The Reds actually have better pitching than offense. They just happen to play in an offense-oriented ballpark.

  295. SeanAY says:

    Fair enough.

  296. Jim S. says:

    I may need to look into that, Osh.

  297. 21sthebest says:

    I’m still dreaming Mike Stanton.

  298. Jim S. says:

    Ballpark factor. I have not looked up the numbers, but I have a sneaking suspicion that plays a big part here.

  299. Jandy says:

    LOL. You throw a darn good party, Hipposter!

  300. Jandy says:

    Ok then, he’s a clumsy dorktard LOL

  301. SeanAY says:

    No, I’m with you Milo.

  302. Nate83 says:

    The problem with all this give them what they want for Pence or Rios and don’t worry about the future talk is that Rios and Pence are not that good. They are not significant upgrades. They do not significantly give us a better chance to win the division or a playoff series. They may help but so might Walker or Jones waking up and playing better. It just becomes another variable of something that could happen.

    I wouldn’t give up one of the Pirates top 4 prospects for something that is a little more then a lottery ticket. If they could be had for one of our 5-10 prospects and on of our 15-25 prospects then make the trade but they are not Carlos Beltron or Stanton or any number of outfielders that are better then Rios and Pence. Let’s see if Rios and Pence go anywhere and for what price before we rip the front office for not getting it done.

  303. NMR says:

    Nor did I.

    But they both, by definition, are “sell” situations for top players.

  304. Jim S. says:

    Can’t argue with you, TJ. This is hard stuff to decide on, and it is why GMs get paid good money. The rotation could fall apart next year, and it is also true that none of Taillon, Kingham, Glasnow, Heredia etc. pan out. I recognize all of that. I just tend to side on throwing 4-5 stud pitchers at the wall and thinking I have a pretty good chance that 1 or 2 will come through.

  305. bill says:

    Some questions from a rookie poster.

    Why would the Pirates have shown no interest in Alfonso Soriano from the Cubs? He was cheap (Cubs picked up lots of money) and a right hand bat with some pop? Would have been a good bench addition next year at worst. Based on asking prices of Rios etc can someone explain to me why the Bucco’s had no interest? is it his defense in RF? Did he refuse to go to Pittsburgh? He just really seemed like a an answer.

    Is it too far fetched to see Engelland as a 4th line winger next year. His toughness and fighting ability and Pens depth at D seem to make this a possibility. He would be a cheap 4th liner. I know he is not fast but neither was George Laraque. Get the puck deep in a corner and Engelland might use up 30 seconds of a shift. Plus you could toss him out with 87 or 71 if tams take runs at them. Finally could you imagine the wear and tear on D in a 7 game series if he was a forward?

    Finally, given MA Fleury is a fabulous regular season goalie was it really smart not to buy him out? His regular season will be totally meaningless as we wait and hold our breath in April and maybe May. That money could have gone to a better use plus there are quality goalies unemployed that would cost much less. How can you ask this team to have faith in MAF?

  306. Thundercrack says:

    I believe the caller mentioned LF, third base, shortstop and catcher. (for the Reds)

  307. Jim S. says:

    I think tagging from 2nd to 3rd on a long fly is on the runner, Bob. He can’t look to the coach there and still have time to decide to go or not.

  308. NMR says:

    No, the problem is that you refuse to listen to what people are actually suggesting.

    “The problem with all this give them what they want for Pence or Rios and don’t worry about the future talk…”

    ^If you’ve deduced this from the last two weeks of conversations on this blog, then there isn’t any point in discussing further. You’re going to read what you want to hear.

  309. 21sthebest says:

    That’s what I remember TC.

  310. NMR says:

    232 runs scored at home.

    234 runs scored on the road.

  311. 21sthebest says:


  312. Jim S. says:

    I have heard Hurdle say that is a philosophical coaching decision that cannot be made on the spot. The player has to make a quick decision to go or not go on contact from 3b. He admits they have made many gaffes in those situations, and in fact they lead the league in guys being thrown out at 2nd/3rd/home, I believe. Hurdle said they are willing to live with that, because he thinks they get far more extra bases by being aggressive. He says they are much better than the last 2 years in going from 1st to 3rd and 2nd to home on singles.

    But, a coach can’t say “go” on a contact play. The runner has to make that split second decision.

    I am not saying I agree with the Pirates philosophy on plays like that, Bob. I’m just saying Hurdle said it is not Leyva’s call.

    Now, if you want to blast Leyva for getting guys nailed at the plate on singles or flyballs, different topic. That is all the 3b coach. I have not analyzed that.

  313. Bob Hasis says:

    As deep as that ball was, if it dropped he easily gets third, or went over the CF’s head, he scores. I think there were 0 outs

    On your second paragraph – bad base running or lack of coaching?

  314. Thundercrack says:

    It is hard to play it cool when you’re expecting to be underwhelmed.

  315. AJS says:

    It is funny. After AP’s triple Walk mentioned how much hustle and heart Presley has. My wife never looking up fom her tablet says…”These guys play a game for a living. Shouldn’t they all have hustle and heart at this level.”

    I agreed with her and told her that unfortunatley it is nt the case.

  316. Bob Hasis says:

    AS it turned out, he got nothing. Every extra base is vital

  317. Jim S. says:

    Mike “The Hit Man” Easler.

  318. Sisyphus says:

    You seem to be defining “market value” as being whatever ridiculous demands the other teams are making. Market value is whatever somebody is willing to pay. The one thing that all of the rumored deals have in common is that nobody is making them.

    You do not win by paying market value. You win by beating the market.

  319. Jim S. says:

    Who pays for Lee? I don’t think your idea is bad if the Phils are hungry to eat salary.

  320. Bob Hasis says:

    Probably, but exchange of info BEFORE a ball is hit should occur

  321. NMR says:

    This whole Pirate Blogger created meme about the Cards poor defense doesn’t pass the eye test for me, Jim.

    Without looking at sabermetric fielding stats, which are noteably flawed, tell me at which positions the Pirates are clearly superior?

    Starling Marte over Matt Holiday is the obvious first choice, but where else?

  322. Jandy says:

    Welcome Bill, and thanks for posting. We loonies are always looking for fresh blo….err…new people to converse with :)

    I think Fleury will be fine until Zatkoff or Hartzell is ready.

    I’ll let the baseball gurus answer on the baseball stuff.

    bill, please post your hometown, and Bizrow will add it to the list of Dejan’s Lunatics’ Asylum :)

  323. AJS says:

    I don’t disagree with you Bob. AP certainly shows flashes of being a very good baseball player. i would definitely rather play himevery day instead of Tabby or Snider.

    There are definitely better RFs out there though. But when Snider comes back, keep AP around please.

  324. Jim S. says:

    He might have gotten the group together, rather than letting them come together on their own. I’ve seen that before. If he was in the middle of that group, maybe he … Aww, never mind. We won. Raise the Jolly Roger!

  325. Bob Hasis says:

    He says, “GO” before the play. Usually a directive from the bench

  326. Sisyphus says:

    Our #11 prospect started behind the plate in game two last night, but I see what you’re saying. You’re correct, provided that the difference between #11 and #17 isn’t all that much.

    Keep in mind that the Pirates have the best record in the league. Other teams are chasing them for a change. They did this with abysmal production in right field. If the Pirates can’t get anybody at all, do you really believe that the players already here will not put up production that is better than what we saw from Snider?

    Again, it’s not about winning a trade. It’s about improving the current team without sacrificing future teams.

  327. JohninOshkosh says:

    Welcome, bill. Hope you stick around !

  328. Jandy says:

    pffft..Cutch darn near plays most of the outfield :)

  329. twentytwo22 says:

    That’s martial arts stuff right there. You go down to prevent a broken ankle. I have used that move my whole life when I step in a hole and I’ve never had a sprained ankle.

    But it IS funny to watch.

  330. Jim S. says:

    Gotta be!!

  331. NMR says:

    Except Garza. And Peavy. And Nolasco. And Soriano. And Feldman. And Rodriguez.

    But yeah, other than all those deals you clearly ignored, nobody is making them.

  332. AJS says:

    More likely some time in 15. Maybe a Sept call up in 14.

  333. Jim S. says:

    Hey, Hippo! All of us Prospect Hoarders want to hoard them til the end of time.

    I bet he has tons of half-empty paint cans in his garage. You never know when you might need mauve again in a pinch!

  334. Sisyphus says:

    Pence doesn’t HAVE first round value. That’s why the Giants are more than willing to hold on to him.

  335. Jim S. says:

    I step in the hole, recognize it, and immediately break into the “I was running the whole time” move. Never works.

  336. TJ says:

    Maybe NH is playing it cool for a change; and hopes he finds someone that will make a deal like he did years ago at the last minute for Jason Bay.

  337. Bizrow says:

    + 1

    Three hundred some posts today already.

    Not too shabby

  338. Nate83 says:

    And you are going to say what you want to say and always think your right. This was not a comment directed at any one person. If you noticed it wasn’t a reply but just a comment. Don’t assume this post had anything to do with a conversation you may have had today or in the last two weeks. You assume every post is directed at you and it is your job to police this blog.

    Are you telling me that a majority of GM’s of small/mid market teams would trade Glasnow for Rios and that isn’t a panic move. Today people have said the exact words if they want Glasnow for Rios then we should give them that.

    Thanks for putting me in my place. It is always appreciated. Sorry for not checking with you on what others may or may not have meant by there comment.

    In the words of Happy Gilmore “I’m stupid. You’re smart. I was wrong. You were right. You’re the best. I’m the worst. You’re very good-looking. I’m not attractive”

  339. 21sthebest says:

    As I said, bad base running. If he doesn’t know what to do in that situation, he shouldn’t be in baseball.

    Not sure if he scores if the ball gets over the CFers head. That’s why he handled it right in that situation.

  340. TJ says:

    Hockey talk on baseball trade deadline day?? FIRE BYLSMA!

  341. Jim S. says:

    He’s a butcher in the field. I think our strategy is heavily based on defense.

  342. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    A right fielder? What a noble concept; I think DK has been reading this blog!

    -Here are my thoughts from the Cardinals series thus far;

    1. They won the series, go for the throat

    2. Matt Holliday doesn’t get paid for his defense

    3. Matt Holliday looks like a bigger, stronger version of Jose Tabata right now.

    4. Good pitching always beats good hitting

    5. The home town crowds were amazing; only a few Pens/Steelers shirts/hats in the crowd

    6. What’s training camp?

    7. I’m not 100% positive that Cutch is Clutch

    8. AP might be a better option in RF and lead off that Tabata/Marte.
    Would Marte get better pitches to hit batting in front of Cutch? AP has a better eye at the plate. Is Marte THAT much faster than AP? Still not a huge AP fan.

    9. Tony Sanchez seems to be a great kid. His interview with DP after the game showed that his big league dreams came true and he was cherishing it, good interview, good joy on his face.

    10. I would’ve liked to have seen TS throw down to 2nd on an attempted steal.

    11. TS didn’t look comfortable behind the plate, maybe just a different style than Martin. Cumpton was so good, didn’t even challenge his blocking ability.

    12. 2nd game looked like the Cards just gave up. They didn’t want to be there.

    13. Pirates didn’t let the big bad Cards push them around, instead pushed them around.

    Lastly, what an amazing vibe at PNC last night. This series won’t be the biggest in PNC Park history for long. Still a lot of baseball to be played, but I truly believe this team is a playoff team, THIS YEAR.

  343. Thundercrack says:

    “doesn’t pass the eye test for me”

    Oh. So using an eye test is OK. When is it OK to use that when stating our opinion…without stats/splits being immediately thrown back at us?

  344. 21sthebest says:

    Right. If the contact play is on, the runner just goes on a grounder.

  345. pattonbb says:

    Soriano had Pittsburgh on his no trade list. They tried to get him last year and he shot the deal down.

  346. JohninOshkosh says:

    Yeah, the atmosphere was amazing. I could feel it through the television hundreds of miles away. Great to see.

  347. 21sthebest says:

    Didn’t he? See below.

  348. Milo Hamilton says:

    Soriano did indeed tell the Cubs last summer that he would not waive his no trade clause to come to Pittsburgh. I think there was only one place he would go & that’s where he ended up. The only place that he was really ever appreciated.

    Welcome aboard Bill.

  349. Bizrow says:

    Don’t get sucked in Nate, its not worth it, trust me ;-)

  350. Bob Hasis says:

    Yes but the 5% who do, know of where I speak – some of whom persist on being verbally combative.

  351. Nate83 says:

    Thanks for the heads up. I got low blood pressure and I’m leaving for a long weekend vacation soon so I can handle it.

  352. Bob Hasis says:

    I know this – with Marte, Cutch and Presley in the outfield, there is very little grass that is unattended

  353. TJ says:

    Matt Holiday looks like Travis Snider except he can actually hit; looks like Holiday has put on some pounds

  354. AJS says:

    So where do you draw the line? “We could really win right now this year if we acquire X. But X costs Y and Z. Y and Z really are good players who I was hoping would be around to help us in 2 or 3 years. Gotta keep that eye on making sure we are at least competetive in 2 or 3 years. Guess I will just stick with what i got and hope it is enough.”

    This is essentially the argument that is going on here right now. maybe I just have more of a “go for it” mentality. Heck I would call the Phils right now and start talking about Lee. And i I could get the Phils to eat enough of the salary I might even part with at least one of Polanco or Taillon. I might even give them Polanco AND Glasnow. But some of this can’t trade any of the top 5 nonsense is killing me. Maybe Rios isn’t worth Glasnow. OK. But what if we started with Kingman? My guess is a lot of you would cry foul at that too. There is a lot of pitching depth there. Hell Cunmpton was 13! 13! on the depth chart. But he has done a hell of a job. Future HOF no. But c’mon!

    You have to give someting to get something. That is my point. And it sounds to me like you all want to give upa bunch of no names to get an actual major league baseball player who can contribute and make the team better today. Guess what? The rest of the major leagues doesn’t have Neal Huntington for a GM who is willing to give up Jason Bay for a bucnh of “Major League Ready” nonsense.

    We all look at Neal’s prospects hauls and think those should be the kinds of things we should be able to ship out now for those types of players. It is a different free agency world now with the new comp pick rules. The names on the market are going to be less hefty and the prices are going to be the same as they were when the quality of players were better.

  355. Jim S. says:

    Agreed, and that is what I do at the youth level. But, I think they side with the pro player knowing (or, hopefully so) what to do there. Some guys are better at it than others. Gaby did a great job of getting to 2nd on a fly to CF last night in Game 2. But, he also almost got nailed. That was all on him.

    I believe Hurdle has directed the players to be aggressive. I am not so sure I agree with that in as many cases as they are doing it.

  356. JohninOshkosh says:

    Wow. you got that right. Never quite understood it, either. You know I don’t know much about Sabermetrics but I’ve heard several broadcasting teams during Cubs games comment that his defense has improved in the last few years and the metrics show it. Guy has produced every year. I even read a case for the HOF (author knew it was a hypothetical argument at best) given his numbers. He has a tremendous work ethic and wonderful attitude. I saw him carry the Cubs teams during some months of their playoff runs. Never appreciated at all in Chicago.

  357. AJS says:

    Isn’t this the exact reason to make a deal? The competition doesn’t want to get any better. Awsome, lets get etter and show them that was a mistake on their part.

  358. Patrick(ri) says:

    Just read in Starky’s piece about hockey player’s kid getting occasional chances to play catch in the backyard with Walker. Could be wrong, but I will bet ARod never plays catch with the neighbor’s kid. Admitedly, this took place in a high rent district between pro athlete families, but I see the roots of this in stories about Clemente, in a different era, renting a room with a Pittsburg family. This stuff is a part of why I am a Pirate fan.

  359. Thundercrack says:

    +1 to you Nate

  360. Naje says:

    bill…. first, Soriano is an awful defensive player…. second, he has a no-trade clause… he controls the teams where he wants to be traded.

  361. JohninOshkosh says:

    Fight the good fight, Robert !

  362. Thundercrack says:

    During one of the 8489 crowd shots from Root Sports during the 2nd game I thought I saw MAF in the crowd.

  363. Bob Hasis says:

    One more thing I know – there are inches of separation between the defensive skills of Mercer and Barmes, but 60 yards (points of difference in batting and footspeed

  364. The Gunner says:

    amen, Bob. Hopefully Presley keeps getting some opportunities to play.

  365. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    I dont trust AP’s defense, but not sure it really matters in RF. They are all fast, that’s for sure.

  366. Jim S. says:

    I am not saying I know I’m right, AJS. I’m sure I am not a “go for it” guy like you – not in a market the size of Pittsburgh. I think they have a chance this year. Could they have a better chance with Lee? Of course. That is worth some risk.

    I don’t think Rios is much of an upgrade, or any upgrade at all in fact, over a platoon of Tabby + DeJesus or Schierholtz. I would not give up a Top 10 for Rios at this point.

    If they can acquire Michael Young from Philly with a 11-20, I like that added bat and defensive flexibility – although he’s not great in the field.

    We disagree on risk that we are willing to accept. I want to ensure what they are finally building lasts beyond a couple of years. I think the best way to do that is keep high end prospects. Doesn’t mean I’m right. Just how I’d do it.

  367. AJS says:

    Question. Has anyone actually looked at taillon’s AA stats recently?

    3-7 3.75 and a WHIP of 1.4. Not exactly lights out. It could be he is working on something and thus not just throwing his normal repetoire. But it certainly seems like a stumbling block.

  368. NMR says:

    You can use that whenever you want, TC.

    You can also ignore stats whenever I present them.

    Listen, I’m a noted “saber” guy on here. But you’ve never once read me cite a defensive metric, or WAR since it uses defensive metrics, to back my opinion.

    Why? Because they are ADMITTEDLY flawed. By the people who created them. Minor point, right?

    Now you can choose to belittle that answer as my way of picking and chosing stats to back my general point in this conversation, but I have a year and a half track record on this blog of sticking to it. Lot of work just to set up one conversation, eh?

  369. cmat0829 says:

    On the play from 3rd, Harrison broke for home on contact… that is usually called from the bench…. once he was caught, he excecuted the rundown EXACTLY RIGHT to allow Marte to get into scoring position. With 2 outs, no difference really between Marte at 2nd and Harrison at 3rd. I think we protest too much to protect an agenda of hating on Leyva.

  370. Kevin says:

    I am a huge Alex Presley fan and no, not just because he won gm1 yesterday. Really hoping he can be the answer when the pirates fail to pick up a better bat today.

  371. AJS says:

    I would see it as a situation where the Phils are eating a good portion of the salary if I was going to give up Taillon and Polanco. Maybe half of it. The rub is that to get .70 on the dollar back in a couple years to replace the lost prospects you are likely going to turnround and eat part of that when he leaves.

  372. Thundercrack says:

    I am well aware of your track record on here NMR.

  373. cmat0829 says:

    Rios didn’t hurt his knee, he fouled a ball of his foot and has a bruise and is fine.

  374. Milo Hamilton says:

    Someplace fun I hope.

  375. NMR says:

    Would you like a tissue?

    I’ll take my toys and go play in my own sandbox.

  376. Naje says:

    Alex Presley has 0 walks and 15 Ks in a little over 50 at bats. He is not a leadoff hitter nor is he a leadoff option.

  377. Kevin says:

    Guess what guys! August 1st is tomorrow. The non-official day when baseball games finally start to matter. In the immortal words of Bart Scott, CANT WAIT!

  378. AJS says:

    You don’t think that Hunter Pence or Alex Rios is a better option in RF than Jose Tabata/Travis Snider/Alex presley. Man. A .270 hitter over a .253 hitter, a .223 hitter, and a career .265 hitter? OK I admit I gave 2013 numbers for Tabby and Snider and a career number for Presley. But Presleys 2013 at bats are few in number. For disclsure he is hitting .315 this season.

  379. Naje says:

    One more thing I know… in a playoff situation, I want the best fielder on the field. And Barmes is not inches better, he’s miles better in the field.

    Footspeed is a wash. Batting, well, if you ignore what Barmes has done since he’s split time with Mercer, that’s your choice, but Barmes is swinging the bat pretty well.

  380. theplanisworking says:

    Over the past 3 days, we are closing in on 2900 posts, if not 3000.

    I would like to personally thank the same 10 posters who are the only ones posting. ;)

  381. NMR says:

    Ryan, where ya been?!

    Considering there were people on the blog still saying Sanchez was having trouble getting the ball back to the pitcher, I think last nights start was a relief.

    But yeah, makes you appreciate Martin’s athleticism, doesn’t it? Guy makes everything look easy back there.

  382. theplanisworking says:

    Thank You.

    Right back at ya, also. :)

  383. Jandy says:

    Matt Cooke was there

  384. Sisyphus says:

    How do the Cards and Reds win-loss records compare with the Pirates? That’s the only number that matters.

  385. Sisyphus says:

    The goal is to win the most games. It doesn’t matter how.

  386. SeanAY says:

    Jayson Stark says the feeling is that the Pirates will stand pat today and “see what’s out there in August.”

  387. theplanisworking says:

    You rang, Jandy?? ;)

  388. theplanisworking says:

    Welcome Billy boy!!

    Congrats on taking the plunge into the blog! :)

  389. TJ says:

    Pirates seem to have their hands in everything; either driving up prices or will actually make a deal or two today.

  390. twentytwo22 says:

    Rob Biertempfel had a tweet that said

    “Heard this from a scout last week: “#Pirates want Pence. They’ll talk (trade) about Rios. And they’ll end up with Schierholtz.”

    If Hunter Pence is who they WANT then he is the guy they need to get.

    Our obvious need is a RH RF to bat between Pedro and Jones. This will allow Martin to bat 7th. Martin’s main value to the team is his defense. His offensive contributions are a bonus. Hitting 5th, he is over his head and has too much responsibility. Batting 7th he can hit the occasional HR, get a big hit, and work the pitcher. He has over 40 walks.

    We see what happens when you wait a year too long.

    1. Washington. Shut down Strasburg. They won 98 games last year. There’s next year. Espinosa hit 17 HR for them. He is in the minors. LaRoche is a year older. Morse left and was replaced by Span. He’s not a leadoff hitter. Their batting is worse. Their pitching is worse. They’re under .500

    2. Cincinnati. Everybody knew they needed a leadoff hitter last year. Shin-Soo Choo was obvious. They didn’t make the deal. Frazier’s OPS is off 100 points. Ludwick has been hurt. Cueto has been hurt. Their bullpen was dominant last year, this year it is worse. Marshall has been hurt. Broxton was ineffective and he is hurt. They might get a wild card. Their best chance may have been last year.

    3. My best example is 2008 Tampa Bay. They won 97 games and won the AL East. They were 72-41 .637 v RHP but only 25-24 .510 v LHP. Their obvious acquisition was Jason Bay. They had the prospects that the Pirates wanted and they wouldn’t make the trade. Bay went to Boston and played great for them. Boston took Tampa Bay to 7 games and the Rays won. In the World Series they faced Cole Hamels twice and Jamie Moyer once. The Phillies won all 3 of those games all by 1 run (3-2, 5-4, 4-3). The Phillies won the series in 5 games. Bay’s career OPS versus Hamels and Moyer was over 1.000. Bay would have made the difference in that series.

    Don’t assume you’ll get back.

    Going with Presley/Tabata is the reason we traded for Snider. Are we going to do this again? Let’s trade for a guy to bat leadoff. We don’t need a leadoff hitter. Let’s trade for a guy to bat 2nd. We have a 2nd hitter. Or we have Walker hitting 5th, Jones hitting 6th and by the 9th inning we have Jordy Mercer or Josh Harrison or the pitcher’s spot batting 5th because the other team brought in a lefty to mow through Alvarez-Walker-Jones.

    If you have a chance to get the player you want, get the player you want.

  391. Sisyphus says:

    It’s not “we could really win this year.” It’s “We ARE winning this year.”

  392. JaxBuc says:

    Patrick, sorry to pick nits, but it’s P-I-T-T-S-B-U-R-G-H, unless you’re talking about a town in Kansas.

  393. Jandy says:

    lol Hipposter, you’re so silly!

  394. Jim S. says:

    Because they are probably looking at career stats and also forgetting that Tabata is a part-time player.

  395. TJ says:

    I don’t get that thinking at all. If you have a weakness why wait until you have to be able to claim a player on waivers to make a deal? The Pirates would have to hope the player they want would slip all the way through waivers and if he’s a money guy the Pirates could claim him and end up stuck with the entire salary; but of course without giving up the prospects.

  396. theplanisworking says:

    In my opinion, this would be a mistake.

    After today, trades have to go thru waivers. And, depending on tonights game, the Pirates would be anywhere between # 27 to #30 on the waiver ladder. And, other teams could put a waiver claim just to deny the Bucs a player.

    Its today or bust.
    Be prepared to be underwhelmed.

  397. NMR says:

    Hey Sis, I appreciate the nice reply above, but took me forever to find it.

    “They did this with abysmal production in right field. If the Pirates can’t get anybody at all, do you really believe that the players already here will not put up production that is better than what we saw from Snider?”

    I agree with this general point, I do, but I don’t know if I trust that it’ll be enough.

    I think Alex Presley is a great example of incremental improvement over “impact bat”. Alex Presley would never be described as an impact bat, yet his performance has made a huge difference.

    If I trusted Alex Presley could continue hitting somewhere near his lifetime average over the rest of the season, I don’t make any moves at all.

  398. theplanisworking says:

    No, just responding to your call. ;)

  399. Sisyphus says:

    Look at what the Pirates gave up to get Lee and Ludwick a couple of years ago. Both of them were better than anybody I’ve heard mentioned as being available this year, and I bet you can’t name the players we traded away to get them without looking them up.

  400. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    Disagree. Not taking anything away from Mercer, but I believe Barmes covers more ground. Jordy is making vast improvements though and I think will be just fine.

    Jordy reminds me of Cal Ripken. One can only hope that he has half the career Cal did, but between the size, agility, and coverage, seems to be a good match.

  401. AJS says:

    Now THAT is underwhelming!

  402. theplanisworking says:

    + a whole bunch.

  403. AJS says:

    .265 is not that high of a bar.

  404. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    Agree 100%

  405. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    Or here in Cali

  406. hockeymonster says:


    Wait a sec…are the pirates in 1st place? This late in the season? Good thing i woke up from hibernation :)

  407. AJS says:

    They got Dunston through the waiver trade back in 97. That was a big pick up for that team even if they did fall short.

  408. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    Because Marte has a better ratio.

  409. Jandy says:

    Look who’s here! Someone woke the hockeymonster :)

  410. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    Had a sick kid that we had to take care of, scary situation, GTG now though it appears.

  411. JRay3 says:

    Plus Barmes is hitting .308 since early July.

  412. theplanisworking says:

    Since Monday Mornings column, to now, we have

    3000 posts.


    And we aint done yet.
    GIT ‘ER DONE !!!!!!!

  413. Jim S. says:

    + many.

  414. Jandy says:

    That was Matt Cooke’s son who played catch with Walker. They are neghbors….until Cooke’s moving van comes today, he’s on his way to Minnesota to play for the Wild.

  415. theplanisworking says:

    Oh, agreed.
    But you have to admit, it is a rarity.

  416. likeabugonarug says:

    So cool. Yes, going to definitely miss Cooke in that Pens sweater.


  417. Jim S. says:

    I’m going to hurl. Start fighting again, please.


  418. Jandy says:

    right on about Barmes.

  419. Playoffs by 2012 says:

    If a trade deadline passes and no trades actually happen, does it still count as a deadline?

  420. Jandy says:

    Only to those who made trades ;)

  421. theplanisworking says:

    Depends on what the betting line is………… ;)

  422. Jandy says:

    Need a brown bag? ;)

  423. Jim S. says:

    You’ve been reading my posts, patton.

  424. Bizrow says:

    I can’t believe I’m saying this, but right now, I’m gonna trust NH

    We’ll see what happens

  425. Eric Bowser says:

    I prefer to not see these guys traded…
    1. Taillon
    2. Polanco
    3. Hanson
    4. McGuire
    5. Meadows
    6. Bell
    7. Glasnow
    8. Heredia

    Would deal 2 of these guys to get Hunter Pence
    9. Kingham
    10. Herrera
    11. Barnes
    12. Dickerson
    13. Holmes
    14. Allie
    15. Mathisen

    Look, you might think Hunter Pence sucks, is overrated but compare his numbers .775 OPS to what the Pirates have gotten from their RF so far, .660 – that’s 28th in MLB and worst in NL.

    This is a no brainer to me….

  426. theplanisworking says:

    + many!

  427. TJ says:

    Here is what I don’t get about the whole eye on the future mentality. You have teams like Cleveland, Baltimore and Arizona that are just pushing to hopefully make the playoffs and are on the outside looking in right now and they are being aggressive to improve for this year. Drives me nuts with the whole keep an eye on the future.

  428. Sisyphus says:

    I was speaking of the players that whose names have been connected with the Pirates.

  429. TJ says:

    Not to mention his motor and mentality. He brings more than a solid RF to any team.

  430. theplanisworking says:

    No, a plastic bucket for the Bacon Beer. ;)

  431. John Lease says:

    He’s old, old people don’t see as well at night.

    As an old person, I know this…

  432. John Lease says:

    I like the idea of wrete.

    Is that writing with a Scottish accent? :)

  433. JRay3 says:

    Some interesting tidbits on Trade Deadline Wednesday:

    Cards have lost six straight
    Reds have lost five straight
    Bucs have not lost more than four straight all season, great pitching eliminates long losing streaks.

    Cards came into their road trip hitting .340 with RISP, they are 6-33 in this series .181, great pitching can shutdown hitting.

    Molina going on 15 day DL big blow to Cards, you should read Cardinals blogs, they are throwing Matheny, Holliday, Freese, Kozma, you name them under the bus their sky is falling. They say if they had Hurdle they would be ten games up in the division, funny stuff and that he owns Matheny – 13-5 in last 18 versus them.

    As for the deadline today, I will say this I really want a bat (RF is the obvious position to address). At the same time if NH feels there is not a move to be made and the asking price is too high, so be it. A lot of talk about teams like the Orioles, Yankees, Rangers making moves – those teams all have to they are on the outside looking in, fighting for their season.

    The Pirates own the best record in baseball and hold a 10 game lead for a playoff spot and fair or unfair can never mortgage their entire future for someone who may or may not improve the team for 50 games and will not be here long term.

    The Pirates are not in the same boat as the teams that have made a deal. The franchise has worked too hard to give itself the chance to be competitive for the foreseeable future to potentially throw that away.

    What have the Reds done? What have the Cardinals done? I will be fine with whatever happens today, as I have been overwhelmed all season by what this team has done and continues to do.

    With that, NH please find us one bat!

  434. Jandy says:

    ewwwwww TMI lol

  435. TJ says:

    Only to those who are stuck playing on last place teams that were hoping to be traded

  436. Jandy says:

    I’m old and I see just fine at night :P

  437. John Lease says:

    Yes-1997 was almost our year…

  438. Jandy says:

    almost only counts in horseshoes ;)

  439. likeabugonarug says:

    Did they? In regular speed it was hard to tell what happened. The ball hit his foot near the ground. Picture yourself at ground level, at least 100 feet away. Now, try to determine where the ball actually hit. It even took the announcers a couple replays (I was watching on MLBTV) before they came to the realization of what happened.

    Personally, while we hate the call, I’d rather have them stick with what they did or didn’t see than guess. They are human.


  440. JohninOshkosh says:

    Did you wear extra pants today ?

  441. Skip says:

    Since you’re handing out apologies, how about me?

  442. Jandy says:

    OK I exaggerated a bit….but MOST of the people ON the playing field saw it. Except the umpires

  443. TJ says:

    Gammons reporting that the Giants and Pirates continue to show a lot of interest in Norris.

    There is so much crap flying around these guys can’t tell who’s hot, and who’s cold on players. Its all in who you talk to.

  444. TJ says:

    Extra? I’m not wearing any at all

  445. Jim S. says:

    Good thoughts, Sean.

  446. Jandy says:

    get in line ;)

  447. John Lease says:

    3 1/2 hours to go and still no Cliff Lee.

    Other than that, I can do without a bunch of jobbers.

    And although I like Presley, if he’s the price for Cliff Lee? Done and done.

  448. Jandy says:

    WOAH! TMI!

  449. Jim S. says:

    I could be wrong, NMR. That happens quite often, unfortunately. But, I believe their BABIP against is down the rung, while we remain at the top. There were several plays in the OF yesterday, IMO, where our LF/CF combo ran balls down and theirs either fumbled them or watched fall easily into the notch – for those that favor the eye test. Same thing Monday.

  450. theplanisworking says:

    Say 3 Hail Jandy’s, get detoxed from PSS, shave your head, and throw salt over your right shoulder.

    That should help. ;)

  451. JohninOshkosh says:

    Any baseball wonks out there know the rule on MLB extending deadline times to teams engaged in negotiations ?

  452. Anne B says:

    That video clip shows why Tony Sanchez is a fan favorite here in Indy! Hope we don’t see him here again :-)

  453. theplanisworking says:


  454. theplanisworking says:

    You know exactly where I would like to push that little troll, dont you?

  455. Jandy says:

    it’s a start ;)

  456. Jandy says:

    can I help????

  457. Dom says:

    Rumors seem to be all over the place. Some say we’re lukewarm on Rios, others say we’re actively pursuing him.

    Some say we want Norris, others say we don’t.

    Guess that’s why they call them rumors.

  458. Jandy says:

    Wonks. lol.
    I’m expanding my vocabulary by the day :)

  459. Jandy says:

    so what does 24/7 say?

  460. Bob Hasis says:

    Just a warped lopsided opinion, with all due respect.

    Range Mercer
    Quickness Mercer
    Arm strength Mercer
    Accuracy Barmes
    Potential (future) Mercer
    Double play pivot Tossup
    Experience Barmes
    Batting is not close Mercer AS I mentioned Mercer leads EVERY offensive category except K’s which goes to Barmes. INCLUDING THE EVER SACRED JULY

    Mercer has done nothing wrong – what has Barmes done so glaringly better – that allows your bias.

    I am willing to listen to honest rebuttals

  461. theplanisworking says:

    To those above, and I am not throwing anyone under the bus, who are saying what other teams are/arent doing at the deadline………… with all due respect………

    I do not give a damn about what other teams are/are not doing. Sometimes, other teams say stuff to throw everyone else off. I dont care about St. Louis, Cincinnatti, Baltimore are doing. I care about what the team I root for is doing………. the Pittsburgh Pirates.

    Let the other teams do what they want.
    I want to see the team improved.
    Dont worry about the other teams.

  462. theplanisworking says:

    The more the merrier.
    I will put a huge saddle on my back, and carry the many who want to help.

  463. theplanisworking says:

    Hi Preacher Man.

    Every time I see you on here, I think of the song by Kansas. :)

  464. Dom says:

    Out of the few remaining choices for RF, who is everyone pulling for?

    There seems to be no clear option over another but I’d go with Pence. He’s the lesser of the 3 or 4 evils.

  465. Jandy says:


  466. Only if you’re in the woods to hear it.

  467. theplanisworking says:


    I dont think there are any extensions.
    Look at the Bay trade in 08. They had to pull the trigger by 4.

    I do know that the commissioners office will extend the time to “announce” a trade, due to approving cash considerations, and physicals, etc.

    Other than that, I know nuttin’.

  468. AJs says:

    Shhhh. dont start spouting off projected win totals! im still scared of what is yet to come!

  469. Jandy says:

    I can’t wait to see Playoffs line(s) for tonight’s game.

  470. Jim S. says:

    Just looked them up. But, I won’t cherry-pick.

    Reds offense (home):

    49 games, 229 runs scored. 4.67 runs per game.
    51 HR

    Reds offense (road):

    59 games – big difference!
    237 runs scored, 4.02 runs per game
    51 HR (10 more games)

    Better at home across the board.

  471. Bob Hasis says:

    Not sure which bar you mean, but it is .45 higher than Barmes

  472. theplanisworking says:

    Over/under on times “underwhelming” is used in game thread.

    Line is 8.5.

    Good Luck.

  473. Jandy says:

    lol you nut!

    ok I gotta go get some work done.

    Maybe pop in, in a bit.

    Be good kids :)

  474. Naterosboro says:


    These are major leaguers. If they don’t know they need to know the situation and what to do when the ball is hit, then they shouldnt be in the major leagues.

    I think I’ve said this before, but I think you put too much emphasis on the 3rd base coach.

    Never seen his name in the box score this year (or ever).

  475. Jim S. says:

    Fair point.

  476. AJs says:

    Well lee was cash only. you got me on ludwick. but somehow i dont think he was that much better than rios or pence. in fact the phils traded for pence in that same market and he.cost way moree than ludwick did.

  477. Jandy says:

    I’m heading out Friday for Inner Harbor. Don’t know what my blood pressure is tho.
    Enjoy your mini vacation, Nate :)

  478. JRay3 says:

    24/7 tweets Astros willing to take bundle of low level prospects for Norris and that Pirates have both interest and ability.

  479. Nate83 says:

    No I have my big boy pants on today. I can handle you being in this sandbox. I just don’t like someone telling me that I refuse to do something especially when I wasn’t talking to any one person specifically with my post. Maybe you read every post and know what every person is suggesting and talk to those people directly about what they did or did not mean by their comments. If that’s the case then by all means tell me I refuse to listen to what people are saying.

    There are numerous times when I have admitted I was wrong or told somebody that they changed my mind on a topic on this blog. I learn a lot from a lot of different people on this blog. I enjoy the back and forth debate. I don’t enjoy being told I refuse to listen.

  480. PirateFaninGA says:

    I really have no idea which rumors have legs or are even close, etc.

    But for non-statistical reasons, call it more of a baseball gut feeling…I’m liking the Morneau idea. Move to a Jones/Tabata platoon in right. Gaby/Morneau at first.

    I think if you take on $4 million or more of his salary then you don’t have to give up much of anything to get him. You still have Polanco for some point next year.

    If he can’t put up a better than what you’re getting stat line in Aug and/or Sept then you go with AP/JT the rest of the way.

    I think it is very low risk. the team is doing and will do well in attendance the rest of the way so $4 million is not an issue.

  481. Milo Hamilton says:

    If the Pirates end up getting Bud Norris, that’s as strong a signal as any that Gerrit Cole is rapidly nearing his innings limit. Juan D. is a huge question mark right now.

  482. Jandy says:

    Thanks for update, JRay!

  483. That would mean each of us has posted 300 times in 3 days. Not even Foo in his glory days could do that.

    Somebody’s ciferin’ is off.

  484. Jandy says:

    Anne, nice to see you here.
    Bizrow keeps a list of hometowns of all the Dejan’s Lunatics Asylum members. Does he have yours?

  485. AJs says:

    That would be presleys career ba. and dont you have better things to do than bash barmes by inserting him into conversations that had nothing to do with him? we get it. hes a light hitting over paid shortstop.

  486. JRay3 says:

    My order would be:

    Pence – But I’m not sure he is “truly” available and don’t think he is going to be moved.

    Rios- Has the talent, adds power and definite upgrade over what the Bucs currently have, as for effort at times- I truly think this clubhouse is strong enough to get him to play their way.

    Shierholtz/DeJesus – Shierholtz has some power and is hitting extremely well this year, but would be another guy who can not hit LHP. DeJesus would be great lead off guy and if team wants to move Marte down in order this makes sense. If team wants to keep Marte in the one hole than I would not add DeJesus.

    Only other bat that somewhat intrigues me would be Michael Morse of Seattle.

  487. theplanisworking says:

    Later, Sister Act. :)

  488. theplanisworking says:

    This should quiet the “dont give up any top prospect for Norris” crowd.

    Any deal would be for lower level prospects. To panic and suggest otherwise is, well………………….

  489. radio wave says:

    I’m llistening to a ESPN Buster Olne mlb podcast. He points out that as of this orning, the Bucs are 10 games ahead of the sixth best record in the NL. He says unless they have a 1951 Dodgers type collapse, they will make the playoffs.

  490. JRay3 says:

    Cole has not thrown more than 132 innings in his pro career, always thought the Bucs would be asking an awful lot to try and get 180+ out of him.

    Did not like the report that Wandy felt discomfort Saturday, find Sunday after throwing from flat ground. Get the feeling he is fighting uphill battle in any potential return.

    If that is the case, pitching is the strength of this team and adding another arm and shoring that up would be wise move.

  491. Jim S. says:

    Honestly, sometimes the cheapshots get to be too much NMR. You can actually have a differing opinion without going for the jugular. You are undoubtedly one of the most knowledgeable and brightest posters here, for sure.

    BTW, go back up and read my response about you trying to cite Reds stats this year to show GABP is not an offensive ballpark. It definitely is an offensive ballpark, and I think you knew that.

    Sometimes, IMO (and it is just my opinion) the best approach is to admit when you might have been wrong. I think that works for most things in life.

  492. pattonbb says:

    Rangers say Garza is available.

  493. Jim S. says:

    Boy are my fingers tired, Plan. But, it was worth it for the new record.

  494. JohninOshkosh says:

    Thanks, Plan.

  495. Bob Hasis says:

    Hasn’t the four outings by Cumpton been enough to dispel fears of our starting five, whether Wandy gets back or not. Peavy is a liability, and Norris is unproven with potential.

    AP is already miles ahead of Tabby and Snider. He has shown plenty, let him shoot himself in the foot, if he must.

    You talk about confidence in Barmes in playoffs – we are in them now. Just exactly what did Barmes do in August and September in the last two “pushes for the playoffs” which failed, that gives this confidence in him you now have?

    The mere recent emergence of JHay, AP, Fort give some comfort about the bench, which would include Tabby, Snider? maybe, Gaby and yes Barmes.

    I have never seen a reason to replace Jones in the eighth with Gaby or Snider (when he was able to play). Jones plays 1st and RF above average IMHO

    With JHay and AP we have legit pinch runners when required, although I for one, have strong doubts about JHay’s judgment when on base. But the speed is there.

    These are my thoughts about making moves which may/may not help.

    I think we are armed and ready – and I’m counting on Marte, Pedro, Martin, Walker and Cutch to lead by example in every game.

    I never mentioned the bullpen – NO NEED TO.

  496. They used to literally turn back the clock to allow those to be complete, but I think they even stopped that stupidity.

  497. Milo Hamilton says:

    If they were to get another starter, I’m in favor of moving Cole to the pen to keep him available.

  498. Jim S. says:

    Amen, Bob! You have that 100% right.

  499. Jim S. says:

    I believe we are still where we started with Barmes and Mercer.

    CB is the better fielder by far. Yesterday proved that. The DP Barmes started in extra innings was a thing of beauty. Jordy dropped a throw while covering 2b. He’s an average infielder, and that play could have cost dearly.

    Jordy is the better hitter, and he can continue to improve. He is pushing .280 now. Barmes has been hitting better of late, but he is nowhere near Jordy as a hitter, IMO.

  500. Bob Hasis says:

    I think how we handle Adam Wainwright today will be a further indicator of just where we are. He is as good as it gets in the NL at this time.

    Locke will also get another sample of just where he is, relative to the “tough guys”, we will need to beat. Kershaw and a handful of others are also tough.
    Since we have the best record in all of baseball, we should be getting a regular diet of these types.

    I think we are ready

  501. Patrick (ri) says:

    I guess I was caught up in the Kendall/Giles era when players wanted to “get the H out of Pittsburgh.”

  502. Where is Brandie, lifting weights or throwing the shot put or something?

    I enjoyed her story on how she got the name “Revvie” and I need to assure her, I’ve never done a wedding in a wedding chapel in Vegas. Never even been there.

    But, my BA in KY and PA weddings is not so great. Even with family members.

  503. Jim S. says:

    Good points, 22. You are right that going the prospect route is no guarantee of future success. Tampa is still very much a contender, by the way. So, is Cincy. Washington has had a lot go wrong this year, but they are still poised to be a good team for the future.

    I don’t think “going for it” is any guarantee of a championship, either. Ask the Pens.

    They are both legit strategies. There is no right or wrong here, IMO. An organization picks a philosophy and goes with it. Fans either get infuriated or agree with it.

  504. Jandy says:

    Not sure where she is Spunky, but sure do miss her!

  505. 21sthebest says:

    “Just exactly what did Barmes do in August and September in the last two “pushes for the playoffs” which failed….”

    For us? Nothing in 2011 since we didn’t have him. In 2012, I thought he was awful through July. In August and September when the team collapsed, he went .271/.295 in August and .267/.382 in September.

  506. Jim S. says:

    Well said.

  507. NMR says:

    Dang, very glad to hear everything seems fine.

    Nothing like a little reality to bring perspective on our trade conversations.

  508. Playoffs by 2012 says:

    Yes I packed an extra pair of slacks just in case!

  509. Playoffs by 2012 says:


  510. Jim S. says:

    Which Presley would that be, John? Everyone here would give up Presley and a lot more for Cliff Lee.

  511. Playoffs by 2012 says:

    It will be a very UNDERWHELMING line.
    You can bet on that

  512. Jim S. says:


    Don’t forget the little known Yankees/Red Sox clause. If those teams want more time, I think they get it.

  513. Nate83 says:

    I do think they are better options and would love to trade for them at the right price. I don’t believe Glasnow is the right price. He has an opponants batting average against of .149. He has given up 47 hits in 92 innings and has 122 K’s. He has walked 50 but that isn’t horrible for a young pitcher. We haven’t even scratched the surface on how good this kid could be. He is tradeable but not for a player the caliber of Rios or Pence. That is only my opinion. Others may disagree.

    If they won’t do the deal for something less then Glasnow I’m OK with contacting the Cubs and getting one of their outfielders which wouldn’t cost the Pirates Glasnow.

  514. Playoffs by 2012 says:

    1:30pm and not a single trade has taken place today.

    Can’t tell if trade deadline or watching paint dry…..

  515. Jandy says:


  516. NMR says:

    Ah, that is a good point. I’ll admit that makes a big difference.

  517. NMR says:

    My fingers would be raw if I doled them all out in one day. :)

  518. Bob Hasis says:

    Sorry about my error in 2011.

    If your figures are correct (I have no doubt) for last year, he may well have been the leading hitter for those months for the team? To me those numbers are adequate and acceptable

  519. NMR says:

    So you didn’t think the sarcastic tissue comment was funny…guess I should’ve expected that.

    Only meant in fun, Nate.

    Just got caught up in the back and forth that never seems to get anywhere. My apologies.

  520. NMR says:

    Big oversight on my part, Jim.

    Didn’t realize the Res played ten more games on the road than at home.

    Good stuff.

  521. JRay3 says:

    Latest rumor out of New York and reported by New York Post is that the Mets are getting hits on Marlon Byrd and team is sending out counteroffers to interested teams, Pirates believed to be one of them.

  522. Playoffs by 2012 says:

    Pirates trade for T. J. Houshmandzadeh…..


  523. Was he in a coma the last 2 seasons?

  524. Jim S. says:

    Correct on both points, Milo.

    I think they, and Cole himself, have done a good job of managing pitch count. But, at some point, they are going to say he has pitched enough for this year.

  525. Jim S. says:

    + many, Lucky!

  526. Jim S. says:

    Did they even finish the basement on Garza? Add new carpeting? That would be the quickest turnaround ever.

  527. Nate83 says:

    No I didn’t take it as sarcastic. I guess we need a special font for such situations. No problems. I probably overreacted and that is on me.

  528. pattonbb says:

    Even if they make a couple trades, they probably won’t be announced for a month or two.

  529. Jim S. says:

    Excellent post! The Cards really need Wainwright to step up tonight.

    We are playing with “house money” so to speak. But, I’m greedy and I want the Bucs to whip him, too.

  530. Bob Hasis says:

    So if AP doesn’t get a hit or drive in a run, and play flawless afield (btw he is way better than Byrd already), the he stands to be replaced in an instant – laboring under pressure like that might be similar to sitting under The Sword of Damocles.

    Byrd is no answer to “anything” AP can’t do, and he bats right-handed.
    Pence is different but also bats right-handed.

    I thought we wanted another lefty in our stable

  531. NMR says:

    Oh, and speaking of admitting wrongs, I was a bit off on my Cumpton prediction last night, eh?

  532. Jim S. says:

    Justin Morneau is hitting .218 on the road with 9 doubles and 2 HR in 202 ABs this season. He is not the Justin Morneau he used to be. I guess he could help off the bench down the stretch, but that doesn’t do much for me.

    I picked road stats because that gives you a truer idea of performance than just home park. It takes into account multiple environments.

  533. I agree, Jim. I drove by the GABP on Friday and Sunday of last week and this week and it was very offensive to me.


  534. Jandy says:


  535. NMR says:

    Ha, I would’ve said worse if I felt you said those things to me seriously.

    Thank you for being cooler headed than me!

  536. Jandy says:


  537. Jandy says:

    but can he catch a fly ball????

  538. 21sthebest says:

    The way I looked at this last year, the team was very good when Barmes was awful and when the team collapsed, he was pretty good.

    That’s baseball!

  539. Jandy says:

    LOL ;)

  540. Bizrow says:

    I read a couple of reports that Morneau is pretty much only a shell of his former self.

  541. Drew71 says:

    I think I’ll just check in at 4:01

  542. Bizrow says:

    I’ve read the same a shell of his former self

  543. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    Some disagrements

    Range: Barmes
    Quickness: Do you mean releasing the ball, getting to the ball or just overall speed? Edge goes to Barmes for the first 2.
    Arm Strength: Mercer
    Accuracy: Barmes
    Potential: Not sure why this is a category
    DP Pivot is no toss up, Barmes rocks this department on both sides,with the feed and with the turn.

    Batting: Barmes has struggled but has done well in July: Just for July’s comparison

    Barmes has a slash line of: .275/.351/.373/.723
    Mercer has a slash line of: .267/.337/.333/.671

    Jordy has been semi-consistant at the plate this year. I really like Jordy, I do, but I think he has much more to learn. I hope he continues to get the majority of the AB’s, but I want Barmes ready to go if he struggles.

    I like Jordy’s swing and approach. I doubt he’ll ever be a Silver Slugger or Gold Glover SS. I also don’t feel that he is the long term solution at SS, however if he can maintain an average around where is now, offensively, I’ll take it. I also think his defense has come along way, minus his error last night.

  544. NMR says:

    I’ll state the obvious first: I’m no doctor.

    But I do prescribe to the theory that arm injuries have more to do with stress than just repetition. The reason you see relievers getting hurt at a high rate and not just starters is that every pitch they throw is max effort. Less pitches, but higher stress on the arm per pitch.

    I worry, given Cole’s mentality, that putting him in the pen AFTER 100+ innings of work would do more harm than good.

    But again, nobody really knows the definitive answer to these things.

  545. cmat0829 says:

    Jim S, you are right on the money. Barmes is very very good defensively… he charges the ball very aggressively, throws accurately… Mercer is fine, I’m not saying I worry anymore about Mercer defensively but no question at all Barmes is better glove.

    Also no question that Mercer is better bat….CH knows that, that’s why he will pinch hit for Barmes more frequently and he will bat Mercer in 2 hole but never Barmes.

    I don’t have an issue right now with either of them getting playing time, depending on pitching matchups and hot hand.

  546. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    I would’ve either A: been extremely tipsy or B: extremely broke, maybe both…would’ve been well worth it.

  547. cmat0829 says:

    I put the Bucs more in the A’s / Rays camp… same model, same requirement to hoard prospects…. marginal incremental moves yes but no need to sell out for the holy grail…one doesn’t exist this year.

    The O’s are maybe a model for future years for us to watch…their credibility has been established, they have made the playoffs, now they need to take the next step.. you see them being more aggressive with trades this year vs. last year……

    The Reds are hamstrung by salary, won’t see them make major moves this year and likely not for a while.

    The Cards/Red Sox/Dodgers et al are in a different level and comparisons aren’t that helpful really…though you see even them really hold on to prospects now.

    Only the Yankees (Steinbrenner not Cashman) are showing signs of the ’90s in terms of making moves…. and I will enjoy every minute of their misery.

  548. 21sthebest says:

    Prepare to be Thunderwhelmed.

  549. AJS says:

    I haven’t heard anything stating that Cole is on an innings limit. I have been working under the assumption he doesn’t have one. I guess it could also mean that they aren’t sold on Charlie Morton. But I don’t believe that Norris is a better option than either of those two. So ya, there may actually be some innings limit that they are looking at.

  550. Jandy says:


  551. AJS says:

    I might just have a heart attack after reading this! Maybe he isn’t so blinded by his opinion after all!

    Sorry Bob. I have been a little hard on you today. If I have offended Ido appologize.

  552. Nate83 says:

    Player A stats: .273 ave. 12 HR, 49 RBI, 22 2B, .324 OBP, .752 OPS
    Player B stats: .272 ave. 14 HR, 43 RBI, 23 2B, .332 OBP, .850 OPS

    Player A is Rios and Player B is Scheirholtz. Add to that the contracts of these very similar players and the asking price it seems like the White Sox are asking for and I have no idea why the Pirates are even wasting their time talking to the White Sox (which it sounds like they are not anymore). Get Player B who is an improvement over our current players and let the White Sox pay Rios the 12 million next year on a team that isn’t contending. I’m so happy we don’t have their GM.

  553. AJS says:

    I think I have heard more people call for a righty that can play everyday over a lefty to possibly platoon with *gag* Tabata. A right can squeeze intot he line up and break up Alvarez and Jones.

  554. Milo Hamilton says:

    You have no idea what the asking price on either of those guys is.

  555. cmat0829 says:

    greetings from Sky Harbor International, the best named airport in the land… will be on a flight as the witching hour passes, will be interesting to see what happens… a few thoughts before i go airborne……

    1) the Pirates MUST upgrade right field… let’s not get all delusional that a couple of games where Alex Presley shows some spark has solved our problems. Seems to me Tabby had a week or so of being very good and Snider had a stretch too…. It is time to build for the stretch run but ALSO FOR A PLAYOFF SERIES…. the Bucs need an upgrade in RF for RF sake, but also and more for the lineup help that a decent bat will give. Martin should not be hitting 5th…. he is a fine 7 hitter and if we acquire someone that is what he’ll be.

    2) I can see the Bucs actually acquiring BOTH a LH bat and a RH bat to platoon in RF…. something like Schierholtz/Byrd combo…. fortifies the bench and allows Presley to be Marte insurance…..

    3) I can also see the Bucs picking up ONE arm, either Gregorson from SD or Norris from Houston…can never have too much pitching. I prefer the reliever.

    4) LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the attitude and maturity (yes maturity) of Tony Sanchez…he has come a long way and I’m so happy for the kid…. here’s hoping he’s in Pittsburgh to stay now……

    5) LETS GO BUCS… how sweet it is to put the Cards on their heels, the only thing better would be to beat them with that snake Tony LaRussa sneering from the dugout, making 15 pitching changes in 1/3 of an inning, only to watch them all backfire. I hope he isn’t the next commissioner…..

    Let’s see what happens…. love that Neil is waiting for the prices to come down… I would take Rios if the price was ‘deadline bargain’…same for Norris…..

  556. Drew71 says:

    I am everyday.

  557. Dom says:

    A bunch of individuals on this blog keep saying that Scheirholtz’s #s away from Wrigley has been awful. I don’t know for sure if that’s the case.

  558. Jandy says:


  559. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    Not by himself, no…Others will need to be added.

  560. pattonbb says:

    Quit ruining everyone’s fun.

    I’d offer the entire Altoona roster for Stanton, by the way.

  561. Milo Hamilton says:

    Sorry. :(

  562. Thundercrack says:

    You did not just say that!

  563. 21sthebest says:

    I’d add plate appearances games started, and lefty/right splits to that analysis. I’d prefer Rios.

  564. Bizrow says:

    Ian Kennedy goes to Padres, I think that the first deal of the day?

  565. Nate83 says:

    Career I don’t think his number are horrible on the road but this year they were bad but have gotten better over the last month.

  566. Bob Hasis says:

    Martin does that.
    As of now, we have Pedro, Jones and Walker on one side, and
    Marte, Cutch, Martin, SS on the other.

    On this basis alone we need a lefty

  567. Jandy says:

    No, he typed it :P

  568. Nate83 says:

    I’ve seen enough reports from different people to have a pretty good idea of what the Rios asking price is. I also know what the Cubs got for Soriano and what Scheirholtz should go for to know that it won’t cost as much as what the White Sox are asking.

  569. 21sthebest says:

    I tried to stop myself if that counts.

  570. NMR says:

    Big correction…24/7 tweeted that **IF** the ‘stros were willing to take that type of package, the Pirates are willing and able to offer it.

  571. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    None of the A’s numbers are special, except for their record.

    LIke the Pirates, they are built on pitching. I dont even think they have a guy batting over .300

  572. Milo Hamilton says:

    I’ll say it one more time, you have no idea.

  573. NMR says:

    Remember what those same people said was Peavy’s asking price?

    A bit more than Avisail Garcia, wouldn’t you say?

  574. Nate83 says:

    290 plate appearences against 400. I’m not sure how that makes Rios that much more valuable. It’s not like Scheirholtz is a spot starter starting 1 or 2 times a week. He is getting 3 at bat per game instead of 4.

    I think they are very similar and obviously money is a factor and prospects needed to get the player in a trade is a factor. That is why I prefer Scheirholtz but I can understand why other prefer Rios. He is more of a name and has been around for a while.

  575. pattonbb says:

    there you go again……

  576. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    What the heck is Leyva supposed to tell him at 2nd base. Come on Bob this isnt Little League ball players…

  577. Milo Hamilton says:


  578. NMR says:

    And probably the best, at least if you’re a Padres fan. Kind of move I would’ve loved to see the Bucs make…in 2011.

  579. Nate83 says:

    Garcia is Detroit’s top prospect. Not exactly a low asking price.

  580. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    Not if he knew the ball hit him and the ball was dead….

  581. JohninOshkosh says:

    …fireplace is crackling and the wife, kids and I are all seated around the traditional turkey dinner and just about ready to open the “Years of Control” Day presents.

    But first Buster Olney with saying Grace…..

  582. Nate83 says:

    Does Kennedy have years left on his contract?

  583. Milo Hamilton says:

    Nick Castellanos.

  584. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    I’ll take a RH or LH that can play fulltime. I don’t care about it otherwise.

    AP can do what Byrd does? Wow

    And I’m not a huge fan of Byrd, but……just………wow

  585. Jandy says:


  586. Milo Hamilton says:

    Still think we should ask about Raul Ibanez. He’s having a great year & at his age we get days of control.

  587. Jandy says:

    You must be hanging around Drew a lot lately, you’re on a roll, Milo ;)

  588. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    .282 /325/.512/.837

    add 17 HRs and 60 RBI’s automatically makes him #2 in those categories for the Pirates and drops into the 5 hole.

  589. CeeHowUR says:

    Why do people insist they need to make a deal. Are they worried about a collapse like past years?

    If there isn’t a good deal available, I’m fine with standing pat. You don’t want to mortgage the future, and you don’t want to mess with team chemistry. Look what happened to the Pens after their late season deals. Not much to show for them now.

  590. NMR says:

    Nick Castleano’s has something to say about that.

    Detroits system is also one of the worst in baseball.

    Garcia isn’t close to Taillon, Polanco, Hanson, or Glasnow in anyones mid seasons rankings that I’ve seen.

  591. Naje says:

    With our luck, we’d get End of Days with him….

  592. TJA says:

    I am late getting on here today (wife and I are on stay home vacation this week and being lazy) but what a spirited blog today. Boy, when the local baseball team is in first place and the trade “deadline” is an hour away…what fun us fans can have. Pirate fans have been waiting a long time to be in this position. Just checking in to see what was happening. Going back to being lazy. Keep it up Loonies and Buccos!

  593. Drewstradamus.

    There’s one for the absent Brandie.

  594. NMR says:

    You win on time, and spelling.

  595. Jandy says:


  596. Naje says:

    Trumbo to Bucs rumor, conjecture, dream sequence is spreading like wildfire.

  597. Jandy says:

    Enjoy your Staycation,, TJA!

  598. Jandy says:

    Good job, Revvie!

  599. Nate83 says:

    My bad. I forgot about him. I live 30 minutes from Detroit and sit next to a bunch of Tiger fans. I should have known that.

  600. NMR says:

    two more arb years.

  601. Stuart says:

    I’m all in on that one.

    Is this the best time of the year or what?


  602. NMR says:

    acid trip

  603. Jandy says:

    Except for Stanley Cup Playoffs, YES ;)

  604. Bizrow says:

    Team controls him thru 2015

  605. Nate83 says:

    I’ve heard that one. Can’t imagine the Angels would do it but it would be interesting. It would be like having two Pedro’s in the line up.

  606. The Gunner says:

    You must be hallucinating, Naje. Who are we giving up?

  607. Playoffs by 2012 says:

    3pm and all of ONE trade today.

  608. NMR says:

    Sorry kids, Sellers ‘R Us didn’t have any good deals this year, and we had no coupons.

    But just think in three years the little toys you have right now might turn out to be nice big shiny ones!

  609. TJA says:

    Thanks, Friend! It’s nice to go someplace, but it is also nice to sit on the deck w/a beer and enjoy some quiet time.

  610. Agreed, but it would be nice as long as it wasn’t for any top prospects.

    Never thought I’d hear myself say that. Next, I’ll be singing Neal Huntington praises.

    Well, I won’t go that far. That would be mescaline rather than LSD.

  611. Stuart says:

    Agreed Jandy, but only if Pens are in.


  612. Dom says:

    I know the deadline is in an hour but don’t they usually announce the signings till later?

  613. JRay3 says:

    Bucs lineup out- Marte, Walker, Cutch, Pedro, Martin, Jones, Presley, Barmes, Locke

  614. Milo Hamilton says:


    I sat next to a wonderful 70-something year old lady at Lakeland this spring and I learned everything there was to know about the Tigers. Luckily, I forgot most of it by now but I remembered Castellanos. She kept offering me sunscreen too.

  615. Lad9 says:

    I watched Ian Kennedy in person last night and he was awful. I don’t believe he would be a contender to be in the Pirates rotation. His numbers do not lie this year. He may do ok in Petco but that would be about it. They can have him.

  616. The Gunner says:

    Looks like NH is going right down to the wire this year

  617. Stuart says:

    Playoffs, relax, it’s early. It just seems like the longest day of the year because we have been hanging on every rumor. Remember last year, and other years past.

    Lots of bluster and big names. Reality doesn’t hit until 5 to 4!


  618. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    Obviously not..maybe AP plays some SS

  619. pattonbb says:

    The children were nestled all snug in their beds,
    while visions of Ken Rosenthal danced in their heads.

  620. Bizrow says:

    I’ve admitted the same “disease” today, Lucky

  621. Stuart says:

    IMHO, if we got Trumbo, we could look for a right-handed RF to platoon with GI. Hernandez and Trumbo could platoon, if only to preserve Trumbo’s knees.

    I’m still hoping for Morales because of the switch.


  622. NMR says:

    41 yo Raul Ibanez in September after playing 140+ games or a healthy Mike Morse?

  623. pattonbb says:

    Pirates attempted to get Trumbo, according too Jon Heyman.

    Well good for them. At least they tried.

  624. Stuart says:

    Dom, I think some deals have actually gone down like 5 after 4 (Unofficially). I think MLB has some sort of buffer because of all the action just before 4.

    I think we’ll know what we wilo know no later than 4:15.


  625. NMR says:

    Hun-ter, the im-pact play-er
    Had some very solid throws
    And if, you ev-er read here
    You would say his leg-end grows

  626. JohnS says:

    Trumbo is really the first interesting name since the Stanton story was penned.

  627. Jandy says:


  628. Jandy says:

    you’re right Stuart!

  629. Jandy says:

    is it catching???

  630. Bizrow says:

    Supposedly we were willing to give up a “young starter”

  631. 21sthebest says:

    I think with Rios you have an everyday player through 2014. Schierholtz is terrible against left handed pitching this year although decent for his career. Rios has 28 more starts this year than Schierholtz. Just seems like Rios is a much better risk. And Rios has 22 steals to 5 for Schierholtz.

  632. Naje says:

    Jon Heyman ‏@JonHeymanCBS
    pirates tried to make a play for mark trumbo

  633. Nate83 says:

    I saw reports that both Rios and Scheirholtz are unlikely to get traded to the Pirates so they will probably both end up as Pirates.

  634. Amazing what a decent team on the field will make a sane, sober person say.

  635. JRay3 says:

    Does not appear that the Angels were interested in moving him. I remember the conversation I had with Mike Trout’s dad out in Anaheim and how he was telling me the Angels have no arms and that the Pirates were loaded with them.

    The Pirates appeared willing to move a young arm, the Angels must think they will just continue to outhit everybody and we see how that has worked out.

  636. theplanisworking says:


  637. JohninOshkosh says:

    Great stuff, you guys.

  638. TJ says:

    Man; I have a hard time believing that the Pirates are inquiring about all these players and going to walk away with nothing.

    We talk about chemistry; what does it say to the team when the deadline passes and they find out that the FO was unwilling to give up one prospect to get a guy like Trumbo etc.

    Kruk was just talking on ESPN how the Phillies were all in the clubhouse watching TV till midnight waiting to hear they were getting Randy Johnson only to find out that the Phillies refused to give up a Lieberthal or Greene to make the deal.

  639. theplanisworking says:

    They need to work out the “secret extension” first. ;)

    And, I wish people would stop insulting drying paint.

  640. theplanisworking says:

    at least we didnt get Ocho Stinko.

  641. Nate83 says:

    Well for what it’s worth the two teams chasing us the Reds and Cardinals haven’t made a move either. I don’t think Atlanta or Arizona have made any significant moves. Not much movement at all. Still some time left. Moves are sometimes announced after the 4:00 deadline as well.

  642. theplanisworking says:

    ………and Mike “Blues Traveler” Zagurski with the Years of Control Day carols……….

  643. TJA says:

    Indeed, Lucky, indeed!

  644. Bob Hasis says:

    Byrd is a flash in the pan – why has he bounced around?

    You omitted AP’s stats because he hasn’t had a chance – A REAL CHANCE – to compile any.

    Byrd is the kind of over-valued mistake TBMTIB have made the last few years.

  645. TJ says:

    Regardless of whether those teams made moves; there is a glaring weakness in RF. Look at this offense and how its hot and cold. They may win the division; may even win a series in the playoffs but with this offense and this bench they don’t have it to win it all.

  646. theplanisworking says:

    Our little ray of sunshine would be so proud of you, Revvie. :)

  647. theplanisworking says:


  648. TJ says:

    Bud Norris heading to Baltimore

  649. JaxBuc says:

    Wow, over 650 posts today on this one thread. That works out to like 65 posts per person, doesn’t it?

  650. theplanisworking says:

    Thanks guys.
    Comedy gold!


  651. AJS says:

    That’s fine. That just isn’t the argument you made above. You stated that Pence and Rios wouldn’t even be upgrades.

    Upgrades not worth Glasnow is a different story. That could probably be debated. But in reality I feel like all of the sudden over the past week or so the list of non tradable prospects went from Taillon and Polanco to Taillon, Polanco, Glasnow, Hanson. I mean at some point you have to be willing to give up a prospect someone actually knows the name of.

  652. Nate83 says:

    Only two teams have made moves that dramatically improve their team up until this point. Those being Texas with Garza and Boston with Peavy and you can argue with Lester and Buckholtz healthy he doesn’t improve their team. The sum parts of the Pirates have a better record then the sum parts of any other team. If nobody else makes a big move today and since the biggest name I am hearing is Pence and Rios which seem to be unlikely to be moved why would it stand to reason we can’t beat any team in the league. What did any other team do to leapfrog the Pirates.

    Not much is available. Going into today 11 trades had been made. Last year at the same time over 30 had been made. There just isn’t much out there to get and what is out there cost to much. If it didn’t cost to much other teams would be getting those players.

  653. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    Oh how I wish this would’ve happened…

  654. cosmo says:

    T minus 15 minutes.

  655. Cobra39 says:

    It looks like no moves for the Bucs. Come on Neal, get us a RF.

  656. theplanisworking says:

    You catch on quick. :D

  657. JohninOshkosh says:

    14 minutes to go until Thunder can do his post per Dejan.

  658. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    I’d give up Altoona for Stanton, WV for Trumbo

  659. Jim S. says:

    Nice, Lucky!

  660. Jim S. says:

    I wasn’t on here last night, so I can’t answer.

  661. theplanisworking says:


    I am going to miss it because of the underwhelming party I am throwing here.

    Better luck next year.

  662. TJ says:

    Brian Cashman and his deep pockets will be able to claim any and every player he wants come August.

  663. Nor Cal Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:


    To an extent, you’re right on this.

    I still like either Rios, Pence, or Nate (I can’t spell his last name with out CTRL C/V).

    Rios/Pence obviously would be the top picks because they can play everday and I think either would make this team even better, either bat in the #5 hole.

    We’ll see…times a ticking

  664. Jim S. says:

    Agreed, cmat.

  665. NMR says:

    The town and state, not just their minor league affiliates.

  666. Naje says:


  667. TJ says:

    Bury your head in the sand Nate; we’ve seen good records the past 2 seasons only to fall apart. I’m in no way suggesting they are going to fall apart however I don’t feel they have enough offense to win should they make the playoffs

  668. NMR says:

    No Hoes joke? Even from you?!

  669. SeanAY says:

    And so, it was finished. Probably, anyway.

  670. TJ says:

    I guess at the end of the day the Pirates have acquired a large phone bill if all those talks were true

  671. NMR says:

    Hey guys, what do you think about this Rios character?

    I’ll hang up and listen.

  672. theplanisworking says:

    1st time listener, long-time caller???

  673. SeanAY says:

    All these people that think Alex Presley should be given a shot to be “the answer” in right field…looks like you might get your wish.

  674. NMR says:

    Love the show!

  675. theplanisworking says:

    After today, even Stan and Guy are underwhelmed.

  676. NMR says:

    As predicted by the one and only plan, the level of blog whelmness after the deadline is decidedly under par.

  677. NMR says:

    Or would that be over par?

    I suck at golf.

  678. theplanisworking says:

    Over par.

    Either way, neal won.
    He got to hoard his prospects.

    It is a shame I called this correctly last week.
    But I used neal’s history, combined with the crappy crop of players this year.


  679. NMR says:

    Summoning Biz, “hope, but expect”.

  680. Jim S. says:

    Will be tough now that the waiver has passed, but +1 for the idea of replacing both Tabby and adding a 2nd OF as a new platoon.

  681. Jim S. says:

    Good point, Lad. There go those pesky park factors again. They are kind of like sunlight from a disinfectant standpoint. Each park is different, and the stats of all players are influenced by their park.

  682. Jim S. says:

    Sure wish we had Alex Rios and his gigantic salary, though. He’s going to be a superstar for some team. I just know it. What’s that, you say? He only has 12 HRs. Can’t be. He was going to lead the Bucs to the Promised Land this year and next. Now, we have no chance.

    Stupid NH. You got so lucky in building this team from the pile of crap you were handed. What have you done for us lately? By lately, I mean today. Stop citing records and standings. It’s Alex Rios that matters.

  683. BillyBaduka says:

    I’m late, but I’ll help.

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