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Morning Java: Why are only Steelers fans ‘yinzers?’

By Dejan Kovacevic | Trib Total Media

Morning, Lunatics …

Sports cover

>> The Friday column attempts to wrap up the Steelers’ summer by trying to identify or brand the offense. And in that, it fails miserably.

Alas, Dri Archer does not …

And neither does David DeCastro:

Thanks to both gentlemen, as well as Lance Moore, for their time and input yesterday at the final day of minicamp on the South Side. It was much appreciated.

Moore’s seamless transition is documented by beat man Alan Robinson.

Mike Mitchell is soaking up the Dick LeBeau defense, by Mark Kaboly.

Here’s TribLIVE’s Steelers page, our Steel Mill blog, and our photo gallery.

If I might, a bit of a digression: Why are Steelers fans casually derided as ‘yinzers?’

And really, what does that term mean, anyway?

I hear it all the time, and the only thing I can take from its definition is this: Someone saying something with which I disagree but might well be a common view on talk radio.

That about sum it up?

No, really, this is one of those things that bugs me a lot but I always find a reason to not say something about it. Not today. The only difference between the Steelers’ fans and those of the Penguins and Pirates — setting aside the obvious overlap — is that there are more of them. That’s it. I don’t notice, in my communications, any sort of difference in intelligence level, intensity, investment, you name it. Other than that, again, there are more of them.

That makes them ‘yinzers?’

Please. If anyone’s being mindless in the process, it’s those applying this infantile label.

>> The Penguins’ coaching search was heating up as of last night, by beat man Rob Rossi.

Here’s TribLIVE’s Penguins page and our Chipped Ice blog.

>> The Pirates pulled one out against the Reds in 12, but only after Clint Hurdle apparently lost his mind and thought Jason Grilli was still his closer. Beat man Travis Sawchik has the game story from PNC Park.

Gregory Polanco’s career-opening hitting streak is at nine, by Sawchik. And the best thing about that is it no longer needs to be attached to Roberto Clemente. Let the kid breathe.

Major League Baseball admits it blew the call at the plate Tuesday, by Karen Price.

Here’s TribLIVE’s Pirates page, our Bucco Blog and our photo gallery.

Here’s Reds news from the Cincinnati Enquirer.

Here are official game highlights on MLB.com.

>> Here’s the official World Cup 2014 page and the U.S. Soccer page.

>> I’ll check in with TribLIVE Radio at 11:30 a.m.

>> Thank you, as always, for reading.

Author: Dejan Kovacevic

Dejan Kovacevic, a lifelong Pittsburgher, is an award-winning sports columnist for Trib Total Media covering the Steelers, Penguins, Pirates, Pitt and, recently, his fourth Olympics in Sochi, Russia. He also appears on WPXI-TV's 'Subway Final Word’ and hosts a weekly show on TribLIVE Radio. For 2011, he was named one of the country's top four columnists by the AP Sports Editors. For 2012, he was named one of the country's top three columnists by the National Headliners. For 2013, he was named the state's top columnist by the Keystone Press Awards and top columnist in Western Pennsylvania by the Golden Quills.

Comments

  1. KING says:

    Grilli HR on the hanging slider today signifies a sea change in the closer role & bullpen. Pirates should DFA Grilli for his last few outings. Bucs have blown 14 saves & cost the starters several wins this year. I would make Watson the closer or Cole for a few games until he’s ready to throw 90-100 pitches in a start.

    Dri Archer would look good in some wildcat. He would be a nightmare to grasp behind linemen or in the open field. Gives Ben a rest some plays.

    Steelers should be electric on D. Shazier,Mitchell Troy etc run a 4.4 or lower. Steelers have a definite playoff team. I would have drafted Eifert last year but Steelers took Jones. Steelers schedule very soft. They should win 10 or 11 no excuses. KING

  2. Woomer says:

    Why wasn’t Wednesday’s game played under protest? I thought that umpire misinterpretation of the rules was the exact reason that games were supposed to be played under protest.

  3. Poole says:

    Any reason to believe Archer will be better than Rainey?

  4. Nick says:

    How is the Steelers defense gonna hold up this year? Heard a lot about how fast they are, but inexperienced. I am optimistic they can go 10-6 this season but what are your thoughts DK?

  5. Ben durci says:

    Big ben declining? Would a qb be an intrest for the steelers if this is a down year

  6. Yes. Archer is a lot smarter. And I mean a LOT smarter. One reason I like doing these videos to accompany columns — like the one above — is that I hope it gives a glimpse into the people I interview beyond what’s written. You’ll love this kid.

  7. george abraham says:

    was wondering if you’ve seen archer? looked extremely fast to me.. wondered how he looked beside other fast guys?

  8. They’re thin. It’s the trait I hear being discussed the least, but they’ve got close to zero margin for a major injury. Scary.

  9. I’ll believe Ben declining when I see Ben declining. That sure didn’t happen in 2013.

  10. Mike Hudock says:

    Question: With McLendon toting all that added beef, do you see the DL starters as Heyward, Big Mac, and Cam Thomas, or do you think Tuitt has a legitimate chance to start? Comment: Unless it’s bargain basement, the Steelers will stay far away from Brandon Flowers.

  11. gertielertie says:

    What do you think of the Ben Roethlisberger contract situation? I am thinking they need to be careful about the length. One would think they would want to get this done in the not too distant future, but as sure as I eat Cheetos, there’s no telling with the Steelers.

  12. He doesn’t stay beside them for long. That an answer? :)

    No, seriously, he’s ridiculous. You don’t get to be the fastest athlete in a given NFL draft class without being something close to superhuman.

  13. Ben durci says:

    Very true age after all is just a number especially in his case

  14. Poole says:

    Shazier, Mitchell, Troy, Ike, McCain….last two arent big impact but fast nonetheless. Some guys on offense too…Brown, Archer, Heyward-Bey.

  15. Big Mac isn’t that much bigger. He’s added some bulk in hopes of drawing double-teams like Casey Hampton did, but he’s so athletic I don’t think it’ll be an issue. Yes, Tuitt can start. And no, I wouldn’t dismiss Flowers. Not just yet. (Shhhhh)

  16. JB Destiny says:

    where the hell are the dancing cats? (It’s Steeler talk, I know, but as a tumbleweed-watcher in Austin I can report that the Texas Stars have a few organized events Thurs/Fri/Sat celebrating the Calder Cup in an area called Cedar Park. Cedar Park to Austin is like Bloomfield to Pittsburgh)

  17. Submarine Mike says:

    With the Canes hiring Peters as HC does that make Ulf a lock to be the Pens next head coach

  18. Derick says:

    what do the riverhounds need to do to try and salvage something from this season? oh wait that football. never mind.

  19. KING says:

    I have been scanning through the Steelers schedule & it doesn’t look very threatening. AFC South is a down division…Steelers must take 3-1 out of AFC South. Can’t understand why we struggle with Titans. The NFC South games are tougher but winnable. Panthers D will be strong but have little at WR & Newton had surgery in the off season. Falcons have weapons but you can attack their secondary. Saints will probably beat the Steelers but it will be tough.

    Those games with Cincy Big! I think the Ravens finish 3rd. They have the Ray Rice situation & the losses of Ray Lewis and Ed Reed are huge holes that might never be fixed.

    Steelers have good balance with Blount & Bell RB’s & AB and Heath catching passes. Ben is in his late prime years & should be well-protected. Curious how this no huddle will work with the new guys on O. Unless there are a score of injuries to the team, I don’t see how Steelers win less than 10 games. KING

  20. Ben durci says:

    Is derek moye in a running for a spot as a starter? Dudes a 6’5″ receiver he could do major damage

  21. Mike Hudock says:

    I want to trust Markus. I do. But, I would like to see that money go to a WR. Is there anybody worth looking at out there?

  22. Justin Brown stepped up more than any of the fringe guys. Moye was just another guy. But agreed on the size thing. Would have helped if he came down with a couple of those balls tossed his way last season.

  23. Good stuff, King. Maybe Mike Munchak will help turn the tide on Tennessee.

  24. I haven’t really heard anything about Antonio Brown yet. Do you think he will have as good of a season as last year? Hopefully with more TD’s? How does he look so far?

  25. Even though he is fast, how about holding on to the ball after a big hit? That’s what I heard and saw on tap was his only negative. Drops.

  26. RRPounder says:

    Not that there’s a wrong answer, but if you could go back to the 2013 draft, do you think the Steelers wish they would have went with Eddie Lacy instead of Le’Veon Bell? I see tremendous upside to both, but man…Lacy was still available. Do you consider it in the same boat as to when the Steelers took Franco Harris over Lydell Mitchell?

  27. Ben durci says:

    Final question is a pirates one…is pedro playing his way out of pittsburgh

  28. AB is never a worrying point. He’s in ridiculous shape and even better spirits. I think there’s a part of thim that will genuinely appreciate being out of the leadership shadow of Cotch and even Manny. Not that there was any negative there. He just seems to have embraced being THE guy in that classroom.

  29. Submarine Mike says:

    Sorry about the Pens question, misread your tweet. As far as the Steelers Dee is concerned, I read the article about Peasy coaching them specifically to get more out of Woirlds and Jones. Can he really do that with so little coaching experience. From what I have seen naturally gifted players like him seem to have trouble coaching because they can’t seem to understand that not everyone can do what they did, which is what made them so great. Your thoughts????

  30. Do you see the Steelers beginning to shift to an “After Roethlisberger” strategy anytime soon? Given his age + proclivity for injuries + his style of play (albeit taking fewer hits with no-huddle/Haley), I half-expected the Steelers to take a quarterback in round 1 this year, and I thought the selection of Shazier spoke volumes about management’s belief that the team could still “win now.”

  31. You know, listening to Jarvis earlier today, I think he’s just excited to have someone of Joey Porter’s temperament and passion doing the instruction. It’s about technique, but it’s delivered at ground level, if that makes any sense. Porter’s right there in the same three-point stance with Jarvis on every drill.

  32. radio wave says:

    Yesterday I posted that the Pens coaching search might lead to an unlikely place. Like the Texas stars.

  33. Christopher Santinoceto says:

    I seems to have gone a little under the radar, possibly, but the Lance Moore signing could end up being one of the sleepers of the FA class this year. Looking at Cotchery’s production in the slot last year, you have to think that Moore is an upgrade at the position, and could be an even greater weapon.

  34. Patience will be required for actual receiver routes. We’ll see how he holds up on screens in Latrobe. That’s the first test.

  35. Love it so far, though a snap hasn’t been taken. See Robinson’s piece above for a lot more on 16.

  36. Submarine Mike says:

    Has Tuitt lost all the weight from his injury finally, if so I think he makes a huge impact this year. He will be hard for OL to handle

  37. It’s all Ben, and it’s all win now. They’re the Steelers. They don’t rebuild. They re-Steelers.

  38. He’ll play. Whether or not he starts will depend largely on how well he does in clearing lanes for Jason Worilds. And even more largely on how well he seals the edge on the rush. But they love his pedigree, and no one should be surprised if Stephon starts.

  39. I liked Bell at the time and wrote that the morning of that draft, hoping the Steelers would take him. They went with Jarvis, of course, and went for Bell in the second round, though history also will note they later claimed they felt Bell was the better back. Tomlin, specifically, was the one who said that.

    As for weighing it after one season … yikes. Lacy’s more dynamic, no question. Let’s see who produces more yards over a significant span.

  40. Submarine Mike says:

    Does Mike Adams get cut if he has a bad training camp and preseason? Just doesn’t seem to be living up to the 2nd round standard.

  41. Dax Whittle says:

    I really think Ryan Shazier will have a big impact in blitz packages and the Steeler D will create some turnovers. I think Mike Mitchell will get to places in a hurry that Ryan Clark couldn’t.

  42. Dax Whittle says:

    Do you think Heyward-Bey makes the roster and could he stretch the defenses the way Motor Mike Wallace used too?

  43. You could be right, Dax, especially on that second count. But I’d temper pass-rushing expectations on Shazier. If he can have the impact at sealing the middle and dropping into pass coverage that the defensive staff is expecting, I’d be surprised if that wasn’t LT getting sprung more often on the blitz. After last season, that alone will feel like such a luxury, huh?

  44. You can’t stretch a defense if they don’t think you’ll catch the ball. At least not meaningfully. He’ll take one corner with him, and the safeties will shrug as he passes by.

    Darrius Heyward-Bey doesn’t have good hands. It’s not a knock. It’s accurate.

  45. I can’t see that, based on the depth chart alone. Where are all the spare tackles with experience on the left and right sides?

  46. Kurt says:

    Given our youth on the D Line is that our weakest spot on defense ?

  47. That’s it for me tonight, guys. Love the football talk. Would love to see more of it here. Those of you who popped up because of my invitation on social media, by all means, feel free to stick around. And thank you!

  48. Dan S. says:

    To your point about yinzers, yes you are correct in your definition. My friends and I still use the term in that manner. However, I tend to use it more than them. I am 38 and have lived in Charlotte since 2001. I see Pittsburgh fans in western PA as entitled. My friends and I here love every season. But hometown fans always find something to b*tch about, and I know that could be said of many cities. But it seems like Pittsburghers just need to be a bit more thankful. Pens and Steelers are model franchises.

  49. It’s the thinnest, for sure. But weakest? I don’t know, I’m still looking at those corners and wondering where the big upgrade will come out of essentially the same cast. I believe in Ike Taylor, and I believe when he says he wasn’t fully healthy in 2013, but he’s got to show that.

  50. Poole says:

    Waiting for the cookies…

  51. RRPounder says:

    Which leads to the question…can you teach somebody his age to catch a football? With that said, how’s Limas Sweed doing in Canada?

  52. Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    You know why Archer is smarter?

    Same high school as me

  53. Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    Yinzer used to be a term of endearment.

    Now, I think it’s a Pittsburgh way of saying “homer.”

    It can be used against any sport, not just Stillers.

    Or, to those with the really think Pixburgh accent n’at.

  54. Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    *thick

  55. Thundercrack says:

    ‘this is one of those things that bugs me a lot but I always find a reason to not say something about it. ‘

    DK, I wish I could provide links to your chats because it seems that you mention how much you hate that term fairly often.

  56. Dcpinpgh says:

    I will take a stab at Stiller fans being Y’inzers. Y’inzers are all the negative stereotypes of being blue collar(using a color before a noun is evil, sorry). Back when one could quit high school and go get a good mill job.

    So being blue collared ment, one was not ‘cultured’. If you lay your hands on a Pittsburgh Steelers fan….well, you are not going to get conversation, there will be violence. Walk through the parking lot right after a kick off and it looks like Detroit. Walk through after the one Pitt sell out of the year, it doesn’t. Throw in, it’s acceptable to wear steelers gear for any occasion , including weddings and funerals

    Add it all together and you get a yinzer an at

  57. JAL says:

    Cloudbusting

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pllRW9wETzw

    Cloudbusting Kate Bush

    GENERAL DAILY UPDATED BASEBALL SITES

    1- MLB Transactions

    http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/transactions

    2-MLB Trade Rumors-Pirates

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/pittsburgh_pirates/

    3 BFFL’s 2014 Pirates Stats Spreadsheet

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AsjN0zO-DxI0dDNkaWxFNWIwNDVUQzEwYXp5SlpGNkE&usp=drive_web#gid=0

    4 Pirates Prospects

    2014 Pittsburgh Pirates Draft Pick Signing Tracker

    http://www.piratesprospects.com/2014draft

    BLOGS and such

    5—Pirates Prospects

    First Pitch: It’s Time For the Pirates to Make a Switch at Closer

    http://www.piratesprospects.com/2014/06/first-pitch-its-time-for-the-pirates-to-make-a-switch-at-closer.html

    Prospect Watch: Tyler Glasnow Extends Shutout Streak, Bristol Loses Opener on Walk-Off Homer

    http://www.piratesprospects.com/2014/06/prospect-watch-tyler-glasnow-extends-shutout-streak-bristol-loses-opener-on-walk-off-homer.html

    Breaking Down Jason Grilli’s Struggles

    http://www.piratesprospects.com/2014/06/breaking-down-jason-grillis-struggles.html

    2014 Bristol Pirates Season Preview

    http://www.piratesprospects.com/2014/06/2014-bristol-pirates-season-preview.html

    6 Bucs Dugout

    Tony Cingrani even worse than Jason Grilli as Pirates win in extras

    http://www.bucsdugout.com/2014/6/19/5825706/tony-cingrani-even-worse-than-jason-grilli-as-pirates-win-in-extras

    Pirates MiLB recap: 6/19/14

    http://www.bucsdugout.com/2014/6/19/5826334/pirates-milb-recap-6-19-14

    7 Raise the Jolly Roger

    Pirates 4 Reds 3

    http://raisethejollyroger.com/2014/06/pirates-4-reds-3/

    8 Green Weenie

    Bucs Walk Off With 4-3 Win In 12 Innings

    http://oldbucs.blogspot.com/2014/06/bucs-walk-off-with-4-3-win-in-12-innings.html

    9 WHYGAVS

    GAME 72: PIRATES 4 REDS 3

    http://whygavs.com/june-2014/game-72-pirates-4-reds-3.html

    10 Rant Sports

    Pittsburgh Pirates Must Move On From Jason Grilli

    http://www.rantsports.com/mlb/2014/06/19/pittsburgh-pirates-must-move-on-from-jason-grilli/

    11 Rumbunter

    The Pirates options at closer

    http://rumbunter.com/2014/06/20/pirates-options-closer/

    Pirates Bullpen Worst in NL Central

    http://rumbunter.com/2014/06/18/pirates-bullpen-vs-nl-central-bullpens/

  58. JAL says:

    NEWSPAPERS and MAGAZINES and Other Media

    12 Beaver County Times

    Power outage forcing Pirates to win with small ball

    http://www.timesonline.com/sports/pirates/power-outage-forcing-pirates-to-win-with-small-ball/article_211da9d3-9042-59d0-abb3-242fa11ac41f.html

    13 CBS Sports

    Cubs v Pirates Game Preview

    http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/gametracker/preview/MLB_20140620_PIT@CHC

    14 Chicago Sun Times

    Inability to sign Jeff Samardzija likely to haunt Cubs

    http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/cubs/28184875-573/inability-to-sign-jeff-samardzija-likely-to-haunt-cubs.html#.U6QQyG1EPv8

    15 Pirates Site

    Martin’s walk-off walk caps extra-inning battle

    http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.jsp?gid=2014_06_18_cinmlb_pitmlb_1&mode=recap_home&c_id=pit

    Snider strikes out former MVP in unique experience

    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20140619&content_id=80549236&notebook_id=80556466&vkey=notebook_pit&c_id=pit

    16 Cincinnati Enquirer

    Reds fall to Pirates, 4-3, in series finale

    http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/mlb/reds/2014/06/19/reds-fall-to-pirates-in-series-finale/10915325/

    17 Milwaukee Journal Sentinel

    Gallardo shuts down Diamondbacks

    http://www.jsonline.com/sports/brewers/yovani-gallardo-shuts-down-diamondbacks-b99295076z1-263899661.html

    18 St. Louis Post Dispatch

    Howard homers, Cards quiet in loss to Phils

    http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/howard-homers-cards-quiet-in-loss-to-phils/article_032f7f5e-35c3-5552-86fb-0fea5338bbea.html

    Bird Bytes: The Cards’ hole against LH pitching

    http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/bernie-miklasz/bird-bytes-the-cards-hole-against-lh-pitching/article_591349c2-c13c-5433-b6d1-bcafa9ec0ac4.html

    19 Fangraphs

    Exploring the Shift Dynamic

    http://www.hardballtimes.com/exploring-the-shift-dynamic/

    20 Baseball Prospectus

    Clayton Kershaw and the Fan In Black

    http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=23940

  59. JAL says:

    Steelers Blogs

    21 Behind the Steel Curtain

    Jarvis Jones isn’t making any assumptions on his 2014 production

    http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2014/6/19/5825620/steelers-jarvis-jones-2014-outlook-news-projections

    Mike Tomlin continues to break Martavis Bryant down with hard coaching

    http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2014-steelers-minicamp/2014/6/19/5825372/steelers-martavis-bryant-mike-tomlin-minicamp-2014

    Steelers QBs coach Randy Fichtner says Ben Roethlisberger is “around the building a lot more”

    http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2014-steelers-minicamp/2014/6/19/5825338/steelers-ben-roethlisberger-2014-news-updates

    CB Antwon Blake “short and slow” at minicamp

    http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2014/6/19/5825212/cb-antwon-blake-short-and-slow-at-minicamp

    Soccer(football)

    22 Bloomberg Stats Insight

    Colombia 2 Cote d’Ivoire 1 – Stats & Post-Match Projections

    https://www.bsports.com/statsinsights/football/colombia-2-cote-divoire-1-stats-post-match-projections#.U6OU7W1EPv8

    Uruguay 2 England 1 – Stats & Post-Match Projections

    https://www.bsports.com/statsinsights/football/uruguay-2-england-1-stats-post-match-projections#.U6OVI21EPv8

    Japan 0 Greece 0 – Stats & Post-Match Projections

    https://www.bsports.com/statsinsights/football/japan-0-greece-0-stats-post-match-projections#.U6OVY21EPv8

    23 BBC Football

    Luis Suarez left England on the brink of a World Cup exit as his double strike gave Uruguay victory in Sao Paulo.

    http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/25285176

    Colombia clinched a last 16 place at the World Cup after beating Ivory Coast to secure their second win from as many Group C games.

    http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/25285169

    World Cup 2014: BBC pundits on a wonderful first week in Brazil

    http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/27914093

    24 World Soccer

    World Cup Day 8

    http://www.worldsoccer.com/world-cup-3/world-cup-day-8

    25 Pensburgh

    Bill Peters: Next Penguins coach?

    http://www.pensburgh.com/2014/6/19/5825024/pittsburgh-penguins-rumors-new-coach-bill-peters

  60. Nate83 says:

    What’s with all the yinzers on the blog today :)

  61. DJ says:

    No question in my mind that Le’Veon Bell is going to be a beast.

    Happens this year and no debate by year-end.

  62. Tom P. says:

    The Pirates have now played 72 games, so it is time for another one of my famous (or infamous) analysis of their 18 game splits. To win 90 games, a team has to average 10-8 over each of the 9 18-game segments to the season. So far this year, the Pirates have gone 8-10, 8-10, 9-9 and 10-8.

    They are currently 2 games under .500. Let’s see if they can go 6-3 over the next 9 games to get over .500 by the halfway point (81 games) in the season.

  63. DJ says:

    Right now, Porter might a better option than Jones.

    Big year for Jones. Will know what we’ve got by year-end — an Aaron Jones or a Kendrell Bell.

  64. SteelerMI says:

    What category does “defensive indifference” fall under? Watching the game on MLB yesterday and listening to the Reds announcers was just amazing – Barmes doesn’t get credited a steal because of “defensive indifference” – and “The Reds don’t shift because they do such great leather work” – truly amazing

  65. DJ says:

    One column on Stillerz and out they come.

  66. DJ says:

    So it’s going to be Dejardins over Ulf?

    What happened to DK’s column clout?

  67. Willie DeJardin is apparently the new Pens GM’s choice to be the Coach whether or not he has NHL experience. It’ll be interesting to see how this all finally turns out, considering that DK would prefer Ulf Samuelson.

  68. Likely, the Mr. Richardson pays little or no attention to the media and he’ll appoint anyone he sees fit, be it Willie DeJardins or someone else.

  69. Jeff Brown says:

    Is it just me, or does Ike Davis look totally confused/frustrated/lost at the plate. I’m talking about his facial expressions, especially after making yet another out. And what is up with his eyes? He constantly looks like he’s got something in them. Surely someone has thought that his problem might have something to do with his vision, haven’t they?

  70. DJ says:

    . . . Desjardins.

    Need to brush up on my French.

  71. DJ says:

    Rutherford?

  72. Dom says:

    Good enough for me!

  73. Excuse me, it was Mr. Rutherford, but everything else still stsmds, and, hopefully, Willie FesJardins will turn out to be just what the Pens need at this time.

  74. Nate83 says:

    I listened to the game on the radio but recorded the Reds broadcast of the game. When I got home from work I watched the game to see the pictures that went along with the words I had already heard. I wish I wouldn’t have watched the 9th inning. Almost every pitch the Reds swung at was across the heart of the plate. The Pirates are fortunate Grilli only gave up 1 run and the game wasn’t lost in the 9th inning.

    Grilli should not be involved in any close games going forward until he earns it. It is way to devastating for a team to continue to be let down late in games. They ended up winning yesterday but it cost them using two more bullpen arms which could have an effect on the next series with the bullpen already being used so much over the last 6 games.

  75. Thundercrack says:

    I didn’t see yesterday’s game.
    But from what I’ve heard this week in regards to Grilli’s struggles is that his velocity seems to be OK, but his location is way off.

    So I ask the question: Where is Uncle Ray? Why can’t he fix it?

  76. NMR says:

    Baseball is hard.

  77. The Gunner says:

    Nate

    It is painfully clear the Bucs need to go in a different direction as it relates to closer. Since last year’s injury, Grilli has been unreliable. If this was the business world, Grilli would have used up his opportunities to re-establish his dominance; unfortunately, it is not happening. Melancon or Watson really need to seize this opportunity and help lead the Bucs to the playoffs.

  78. Patrick(ri) says:

    Grilli has become a pitch-to-contact guy. Self evidently a very dangerous attribute in a closer. Put him in the middle- innings role and move someone up. Are there no logical candidates???

  79. Nate83 says:

    It does become slightly easier when a pitcher is grooving pitch after pitch over the center of the plate which is what Grilli is currently doing.

    Grilli seems to hit the catcher in the dead center of his chest. Maybe he can be our third baseman. Are you allowed to have a designated thrower?

  80. Milo Hamilton says:

    Darren Dreger is reporting that Rutherford is apparently having a change of heart after a face to face meeting with Willie Desjardins last night. Rutherford was heard to tell one of his 73 assistant GM’s that Desjardins sounded taller on the phone.

    The 1st part is true, I made the 2nd part up.

  81. It’s obvious that the Bucs badly need a closer at this time, and I would like to suggest that Jeanmar Gomez should take over that role since he pitched those 4 scoreless innings in Miami last Friday after the Marlins had tied it in the 9th and he was the most effective relief pitcher of the whole lot last weekend.

  82. Thundercrack says:

    NMR,
    Sometimes when I read things on the blog or from columnists or hear things on the radio, I get the impression that it isn’t hard for Ray Searage.

    I like the guy a lot (RS) and think he is a good pitching coach. But I think it is odd that people like to give him so much praise when pitcher does well but yet don’t really look his way when they start to go south.

    Jeff Locke is pitching so well maybe he should by Searage a new Corvette.

  83. Thundercrack says:

    That’s what we missed!!!

    :-)

  84. The Gunner says:

    Melancon or Watson need to step up and seize the opportunity to close – it’s that simple. Unless you’re Mariano Rivera, most closers have a short shelf life.

  85. Mr. Rutherford keeps insisting that he’s all but settled on Willie Desjardins although he also says that he hasn’t offered him the job yet.

  86. NMR says:

    Yeah, I figured that’s where your original comment was headed.

  87. bpn8pitt says:

    I will not use “yinzer” in the negative anymore. I apologize.

  88. DJ says:

    Ulf now the “heavy” favorite?

    Need to get a little heavier.

  89. NMR says:

    I think that minor little tid bit about where the ball actually ends up in the zone gets lost on some of today’s number-heavy minds.

  90. NMR says:

    Re-u-nited and it feels so goooood.

  91. pattonbb says:

    ++

  92. Tim says:

    Yinzer – yes and proud to be one. I don’t find the term infantile or derogatory at all. The old saying, “sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me”, doesn’t apply here.

    When used by outsiders, I’ve always considered “Yinzer” to be a term that attempts to dismiss the opinions of or simply describe a Pittsburgh fan … “Oh, you’re just a Yinzer.” But the usage fails when one embraces their inner-Yinz.

  93. Thundercrack says:

    Was Ulf the ‘heavy favorite’ or the ‘no brainer’ ?

  94. 21sthebest says:

    He finished last season with 8 consecutive scoreless outings including 3 in the playoffs. I really don’t understand the sentiment that he has been unreliable since the injury last year.

  95. 21sthebest says:

    That’s what makes it great NMR. If it wasn’t hard, everyone would do it.

  96. NMR says:

    Absolutely right.

  97. Thundercrack says:

    Aren’t there stats that show balls hit into play / balls swung & missed by the each quadrant of the pitch tracker?

    And hey wait a minute NMR, are you one of those number-heavy minds?!
    :-)

  98. Thundercrack says:

    Managing. That’s the easy part.

  99. Nate83 says:

    I know you are not saying that it is but that is no fault of Searage. Very humble guy who deflects almost all credit to the players and to the other coaches. I like him a lot but have never been a fan of the endless praise that has come his way. It’s very shortsighted to give him credit for a couple of feel good success stories especially when some of those haven’t had happy endings.

    I think the Pirates have a nice plan when it comes to pitchers and finding ones that may fit their philosophy and benefit the most from what they like to do. Pitching staff is 12th out of 15th this year. Obviously no magic being worked this year. That’s no more Searages fault then it was his doing when they finished 3rd last year. He’s good at what he does but at the end of the day it’s the players that have to get it done. They have been pitching since they where 7 years old. How much can Searage really teach them or change them? He doesn’t deserve no credit but I think it’s a smaller amount then has been given.

  100. Nate83 says:

    I thought that was yours and DK’s song.

  101. Chris Kiriluk says:

    I always had the impression that a yinzer is a Pittsburgh homer, someone who rarely finds anything wrong with the home team, in most cases the Steelers. It also seems to be applied in a less critical way at times, just to describe a Pittsburgher, usually a sports fan. The context of the situation matters, as in most terms.

  102. Nate83 says:

    I will give away my entire fortune (don’t get excited it’s not much) if Gomez becomes the everyday closer on this team. His style of pitching is probably the furthest thing from a typical closer on the staff.

  103. The Gunner says:

    My God! We’re trying to win the division, aren’t we? Gomez is not the solution for closer (based on one good game)

  104. hockeymonster says:

    JR had a change of heart or other way around? Pens need to anti up and get WD locked up. It’s either him or Crawford and I want to roll the dice with WD.

  105. hockeymonster says:

    It was superseded.

  106. Thundercrack says:

    Jeanmar Gomez = ice water in his veins

  107. John Lease says:

    Who in the hell says yinz? It’s yunz, dammit. I’ve never said, or HEARD anyone say yinz.

  108. Nate83 says:

    Glasnow had another impressive outing last night going 6 innings and giving up 2 hits and no runs. Over his last 4 starts he has pitched 21.2 innings, has 0 earned runs, given up 8 hits and struck out 30. Season ERA is no 1.66 and has given up 0 home runs in 48.2 innings pitched this year.

    It’s hard not to get excited about this kid. If he can somehow reduce the walks to even 3.5 per 9 he will start moving through the system really fast. Unfortunately he had 61 walks last year in 111 innings and this year he has 30 in 48 innings. He has been better over his last 4 starts but still is up well over 4 per 9 innings.

  109. NMR says:

    But I’ve spent the vast majority of my life as a regular ole fan. I try not to make difficult solutions out of easy problems.

    Baseballs are much easier to hit when they’re elevated and over the big part of the plate. The vast majority of the hard hit balls Grilli is giving up appear to be elevated and over the big part of the plate. He should probably stop doing that.

  110. hockeymonster says:

    Pens shouldn’t be offended that there may be mutual interest between VAN and Desjardins. Couple good reads i found yesterday:

    http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/57238-Willie-Desjardins-looks-like-a-strong-fit-to-coach-the-Vancouver-Canucks.html

    http://starsblog.dallasnews.com/2014/06/texas-stars-coach-willie-desjardins-could-be-a-candidate-to-move-into-nhl-and-thats-just-fine-with-jim-nill.html/

    “He likes to play a certain style, but he also knows you have to fill in the right holes,” Nill said. “You’ve got to be a square peg in a square hole type of thing, and he knows that. He makes players adapt and he gets the most out of players.”

    “Willie likes to attack and push the pace, and it’s the same with practice,” Morin said. “We go short and fast, but when we’re out there, we’re going. We’ve been a fast-paced team since he got here.”

    My favorite:

    Desjardins isn’t the polar opposite of the fiery Tortorella. Nill and Shaun Clouston, Desjardins’ assistant with the Medicine Hat Tigers and now their head coach, use the word “intense” to describe him.

  111. hockeymonster says:

    Van has had their eyes on him for a while. Give him 3-4 years with an option year and move on. He’s ready. Instead of convening round table discussions with all 19 AGM’s just pick up the phone and get it done already.

  112. JohninOshkosh says:

    Welcome back Milo.

  113. Milo Hamilton says:

    Kevin Orie is singing take Me Out To The Ballgame at Wrigley Field today. They’ve officially run out of people.

  114. Dom says:

    Spygate Part II !!!

    http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-Sports/2014/06/20/Spygate-II

    Browns coach Mike Pettine, a former assistant for the Jets, claims the playbook Rex Ryan gave to Nick Saban, was given to Bill Belichick!

  115. hockeymonster says:

    Bring back Coach Ditka!

  116. Dom says:

    Bring back Roseanne!

  117. The Gunner says:

    Very good point, 21. However, Grilli was just plain dominant prior to the injury. Post injury, he was not and he still is not dominating. Clint needs to go in a different direction as it relates to closer.

  118. Milo Hamilton says:

    Hey John. Any word on Lucky ? Hope everything’s OK with him.

  119. Arriba Wilver says:

    Recency and primacy.

  120. Thundercrack says:

    I predict that he’ll be better at singing than he is at talking during the pre & post game shows.

  121. Arriba Wilver says:

    I’m with you, John, but Yinzer has become the word for what’s being described and I’ve come to accept it. I’ll never accept changing jag off, though. ;-)

  122. 21sthebest says:

    If he sits out the pregame show to practice, that’s a very good thing.

  123. bpn8pitt says:

    What is his “out pitch” or secondary?

  124. Thundercrack says:

    +++++++++

    I wonder if he will stammer before he starts to sing the song….just like he does every single time Zangrilli asks him a question.

  125. bpn8pitt says:

    Is it possible Mcguire put the Pens on to him?

  126. Milo Hamilton says:

    I can’t listen to those pre & post game shows. Truly awful radio.

  127. Arriba Wilver says:

    No brainer.

  128. Arriba Wilver says:

    I can’t, either. A total waste of time.

  129. Baywatch says:

    Tony Sanchez is just CRACKIN’ me UP on Twitter this morning!

  130. Thundercrack says:

    The best parts of that show is the Hurdle press conferences.

    Zangrilli is better when he is by himself. His regular partner adds nothing.

  131. Nate83 says:

    Do you think he is destined for the bullpen? I have read to many things about all these prospect pitchers to remember who pitches what. I don’t want him to be Shelby Miller so if he doesn’t have a third pitch don’t force him to be a starter. There is great value in a shut down reliever. Just look at Kimbrell and Chapman. What an advantage to have.

  132. Nate83 says:

    Maybe he has a future as a stand-up comedian. If he doesn’t figure out soon how to play at least league average defense behind the plate he will not be playing baseball much longer.

  133. Thundercrack says:

    I thought he was giving up twitter until he makes is back to The Show?

  134. Nate83 says:

    Scouting report obviously says he has a +fastball, but also has an above average change up and a big curveball that has room for improvement but could be really good as it developes. This was only one guys opinion I found so somebody else may say something completely different. I guess that curveball will decide what he becomes.

  135. Naterosboro says:

    Cool story and Pittsburgh flavor added to the World Cup. If you have time, there’s also a 4 min video attached to the article. Check it out.

    http://soccer.si.com/soccer/planet-futbol/2014/06/19/hannah-smith-world-cup-craig-willinger-fund-usa-ghana

  136. JohninOshkosh says:

    No, have not heard anything. Fingers remain crossed.

  137. hockeymonster says:

    Don’t think so. WD has been highly regarded for a while. I liked his one quote where he proclaimed that he enjoys being the HC when referring to his stint as Associate HC. Sounds like he went to the AHL simply to prove a point and he did so emphatically.

    I like people who can call their shots and back it up.

  138. bpn8pitt says:

    Its just funny, Nate. Last year around this time, we were deep in arms or so I thought.

    Now, we need everything from a frontline starter to backend help.

    One way or the other next 9 months will be interesting acquisition wise. Thanks for info.

  139. Rob says:

    If you’re from Pittsburgh, you’re a yinzer. We have a guy on our trivia team, you can pick any handle with up to 6 letters, and he plays under the name YINZER each and every week.

  140. JohninOshkosh says:

    Sting sings it Monday. That’s a pretty big coup for the Cubs.

  141. bpn8pitt says:

    I like it at first glance. I realize he doesnt have the head coach experience but I wonder how some people would feel about an unemployed retread.

    Honestly, have to see the contract. Him and Rutherford both could be gone next year if things go south quick. Could be just a filler for Babcock? I dont know.

    I like reading you and Relentless Forechecks posts. Very informative.

  142. Nate83 says:

    They still have 3 arms any organization would love to have in Taillon, Glasnow and Kingham but yest their is a gap in 2015 and maybe even the start of 2016. They will need some place holders and they have to be better then Edinson.

  143. Thundercrack says:

    The wrestler or the guy from The Police?

  144. JohninOshkosh says:

    Nobody gives up Twitter. More addictive than coffee. And, Dejan has both addictions really bad.

  145. Dom says:

    He can still be a decent bench player, right?

  146. JohninOshkosh says:

    :)

  147. Dom says:

    I noticed that the guy drafted right after Sanchez, Matt Hobgood, is only a relief pitcher in A ball. It could be worse.

  148. The Gunner says:

    Sting the wrestler is close to 60 years old & still competing. Now that’s an athlete!!

  149. hockeymonster says:

    Thanks.

    He’s been everything but nhl HC in name. He’s as ready as they come. He’ll need atleast 3 years and maybe a 4th option year so dont believe he’ll be a filler for anyone. I had he and Crawford neck n neck yesterday but Desjardins has nothing left to prove so I want to give him a shot. I like the fact he took a step back to AHL simply to put a stamp on his resume. That should be rewarded. He’s comes off as hungry, motivated and capable.

  150. Thundercrack says:

    +1

  151. Arriba Wilver says:

    My impression is that Yinzer is used in at least 3 ways. The way DK described (derogatory), the way you described ( descriptive of where you’re from in a neutral way) and as a term of “affection” or pride. And certainly it is used to describe fans of any of the 3 major pro teams. It may have started and be most identified with the Steelers. That’s my take, anyway. It used to annoy me, not so much anymore.

  152. hockeymonster says:

    Also like that fact that whiteboard willie is a dave king and andy murray disciple. Between him being hungry and well schooled i dont see why this is taking so long.

  153. Arriba Wilver says:

    If anyone is interested in the “Redskins” issue, USA Today had a really good, informative and balanced article on it a couple days ago.

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/redskins/2014/06/18/washington-redskins-name-change-trademarks-daniel-snyder/10812885

  154. Milo Hamilton says:

    You call that balanced ? I must have missed the part about the government confiscating a citizens rightful property for no other reason than political correctness.

  155. Milo Hamilton says:

    That sure makes me feel a whole lot better considering the rousing failures those guys were in the NHL.

  156. NMR says:

    Twitter, coffee, and the Blog.

    I just can’t quit you, damnit.

  157. JohninOshkosh says:

    You have Yinzer. I have Cheesehead.

    We all have our regional stereotype crosses to bear.

    Now, excuse me while I eat this bratwurst, cheese danish, wash them down with a Miller beer and watch a videotape recording of the Ice Bowl.

  158. Arriba Wilver says:

    +++++

    At least with cheesehead you have hats. ;-). What’s a Yinzer “look” like?

  159. Maz in Iowa says:

    Pitch to contact certainly describes Grilli to a tee.I just about go “all Machado” whenever they put him in.Don’t know how Hurdle can even tell him to get loose.I don’t know if his problem is correctable,but for crying out loud don’t try to fix it in the ninth inning.Just sayin

  160. Maz in Iowa says:

    Pierogi heads? :)

  161. hockeymonster says:

    I missed you milo.

    But both are highly regarded as tacticians. And as far as i can tell it should be between Crawford and whiteboard willie and WW is worth a shot.

  162. Zico says:

    Always wanted a #68 “Jag off” jersey

  163. NMR says:

    “…for no other reason than political correctness.”

    These arguments are always so much fun to look back on in a generation.

  164. NMR says:

    Pretty sure he’d be the first “pitch to contact” guy in history to strike out a batter per inning.

  165. hockeymonster says:

    So Peters got 3 years and 19 less bosses.

  166. Milo Hamilton says:

    I don’t know that Desjardines won’t make a good head coach. But this particular job at this particular time screams for experience. And I don’t mean the kind you get in Medicine Hat with 16 year olds. The Penguins organization is a circus right now & I don’t think I can trust anything they do.

  167. cmat0829 says:

    COLE as closer? Come on guys, these are real human beings we are talking about, not pieces on some sort of ‘armchair sports fan’ fantasy game.

  168. hockeymonster says:

    Agree with circus part but I like WD. He’s not a 39 year old hot shot. He’s seasoned and deserves a shot.

  169. cmat0829 says:

    ANY offseason or even right before season analysis of the strength of schedule is absolutely foolish — and worthless. Which is why I never watch the ESPN and NFL Network hours-long schedule release ridiculous programming where they essentially go through all the games and analyze them… in MAY. Teams that look beatable now will be better than we think…games we think we have no chance in will end up being winnable…

  170. Milo Hamilton says:

    That could be the hold up here. It’s going to take them 3 or 4 days to introduce the guy to all the assistant GM’s. I doubt Rutherford has met them all yet.

  171. NMR says:

    Yeah, the depth is there.

    The real dropoff comes after those guys are brought up. But at that point, you hope to have at least 3 average or better starters in the mix for anywhere between four and six more years. SHOULD be enough time to go out and develop the next wave.

  172. cmat0829 says:

    careful trying to learn anything when listening to REDS announcers. That said Defensive Indifference is a real thing but IMHO was misapplied yesterday. IN a one run game in the 6th inning, don’t see how you can really have DI…which is reserved for late innings and blowouts where the team just doesn’t care about the runner advancing.

    As to the shift, much that I think it is slightly overrated, teams don’t shift because they ‘don’t do good work with the leather’, they do it because of advanced analytics and tendencies, and position is indeed part of doing good work with the leather… but as far as Thom and Marty Brennaman are concerned, good leather work is Brandon Phillips hotdogging simple plays to be ‘flashy’.

  173. Maz in Iowa says:

    More of a tongue in cheek comment(sarcasm) for this season.

  174. bpn8pitt says:

    I saw that, Dom.

    Kinda think thats more Rex Ryan being a dumbass than Belichek being a cheater.

    I was wonder about playbooks. Especially in today’s age where they are electronic, IPads etc. Stuff probably happens more often than we realize.

    Not to mention the Steelers running the same defense for years. Yeah, a lot of the verbage and things have changed over the years, but I sure a lot of the premises are they same…I dont know you still need good players, and need the good players to make good plays.

  175. Daquido_Bazzini says:

    I’ve been called a Yinzer when it comes to the Steelers, and it doesn’t bother me at all.
    In fact…I think I’m going to resurrect using the word “Yinz”…..

  176. hockeymonster says:

    Kind of silly that peters only got 3 years with carolina when he was JR’s choice here. Either they didn’t like Peters all that much or they’re trying to do this on the cheap. Too many vacancies to be offering low ball deals to worthy candidates. Between that and the unnecessarily bloated front office i can see coaches wincing at the situation. And if they’re trying to force Tocchet or any assistants down their throats that wont help either.

    Hopefully WD will want Hynes and JM to stay but from there you gotta give him the keys.

  177. cmat0829 says:

    milo welcome back.. but if we had this blog in 1863, I suppose someone would say the government unlawfully confiscated a citizens property when slavery was abolished.

    there are a zillion nicknames washington can choose that make equal amounts of marketing money and don’t impact the play on the field whatsoever. I stand by my basic assertion that if a new expansion franchise in the NFL sought league approval to name their team in an offensive way (in ANY offensive way), the league would deny that citizen’s “right” to name their team that way. No way Washington Redskins would be approved today for an expansion franchise.

  178. NMR says:

    On the left coast, no less. Take up the charge, my man!

  179. NMR says:

    Honestly for me, the biggest “depth” problem is in the bullpen.

  180. Arriba Wilver says:

    I forget who recommended it, but thanks to the poster who recommended The Coffee Tree Roasters. Turns out there is one around the corner from my office. Trouble is I usually drink coffee on the way TO the office. Tried it today, though, and it is really good. I don’t particularly care for Starbucks and my favorite is Dunkin’ Donuts coffee, but CTR was very good, and I got the “mild.”

  181. cmat0829 says:

    Closers falling out of favor is becoming very very common. Joe Nathan was way worse than Grilli earlier this year and is still closing for the Tigers… and doing better… Jim Johnson was removed from his role by the A’s, after the team spent a lot to get him (uncharacteristic for them)… I do want Grilli demoted for a while, but I stop short of the tar and feathering he is getting. It may be that he is a real AJB “JA” off the field and that may lead some to be tougher on him….

  182. cmat0829 says:

    AW: Thanks for the Travis-like non-baseball recommendation!!

  183. NMR says:

    Add Grant Balfour to that list.

  184. Nate83 says:

    They have trades away 4 bullpen arms (Black, Welker, Morris, Thornton) in less then a year. They got Welker back. I think Black is probably the only one that could end up being a big loss.

    I couldn’t tell if you were being serious with your comment or not. I didn’t know were you stood with bullpen’s construction. I lean towards it being important but also being so volatile that it’s impossible to project. All you can do is get 3 or 4 good ones that you have team control of for a number of years and fill in around them with enough guys that some will stick and be useful.

  185. 21sthebest says:

    Agree. But that, to me, doesn’t mean they should lose the name now.

    What I don’t understand is why people didn’t give a hoot what their name was 20, 30 years ago, and now it just has to go.

  186. Dom says:

    Anyone know if there is an organization that awards sports writers for a “best article of the year” sort of thing? Is there a local one?

  187. Milo Hamilton says:

    Italy needs to get to their game.

  188. Nate83 says:

    Most teams have defense first catchers on their bench. If he doesn’t figure out I’m sure he would kick around the league for a few years and get a chance with some rebuilding teams but as soon as he get’s his 3 years service in he will more then likely become too expensive to keep. We sometimes forget how difficult it is for a player to get from those 3 years to 6 years of experience. If you do you can have a pretty nice career like Barmes has.

  189. NMR says:

    Dead serious.

    “I lean towards it being important but also being so volatile that it’s impossible to project. All you can do is get 3 or 4 good ones that you have team control of for a number of years and fill in around them with enough guys that some will stick and be useful.”

    These two sentences seem contradictory to me. I agree that bullpens are absolutely volatile, and that is the exact reason I don’t care much about years of control.

    The whole filling in guys is the tricky part. Those guys do have to come from somewhere, after all. Just not sure I can see any big bullpen arms in AA or AAA that look to be in line for that jump.

    Vic Black walked 18 guys in 18 AAA innings this year. At this point I don’t sweat losing him.

  190. 21sthebest says:

    There’s a coffee shop near my office. Not thrilled with their coffee and I don’t like our Keurig and there’s not a Starbucks on my way. So I started sliding by Coffee Tree Roasters a couple of weeks ago. Love it.

  191. NMR says:

    There are different people alive right now than 20 and 30 years ago.

  192. Dejan Kovacevic says:

    There are several.

  193. Dom says:

    Is England out?

    I know they’re technically out but for all for all intents and purposes they’re done right?

  194. Dejan Kovacevic says:

    Anyone else just completely mystified by this coaching search? Honestly, even the lack of info aside, it’s been close to impossible to connect even the few dots out there.

    I know this: If Mr. Texas Minor-Guy came up here, only to waltz out and go see what the Canucks had to say, I don’t like his chances.

  195. bpn8pitt says:

    Your last paragraph cannot be understated enough. Big picture, one of those guys has to turn into an above average if not great ML starter, and it would be nice if all 3 turned into something useful.

    But if they are look to trade for a pitcher its almost a guarantee, the opposing team is gonna want 1 or 2 of those guys back.

    Its were the evaluation really comes in…Hold what you got, or go all in on something else?

  196. JohninOshkosh says:

    Does anyone know this Rebecca Grant’s story. She is this insanely hot woman who tweets about sports. But, she live tweets most of the Bucco games.

    She lives in LA. Did she used to work on Pittsburgh television ?

  197. JohninOshkosh says:

    I love Keurig makers!

  198. coba39 says:

    Is Pierre Creamer still available?

  199. Thundercrack says:

    21
    There could have Indian groups that were complaining 20-30 years ago…and they didn’t have the access to or interest from the media as they do today. And the internet.

  200. Bizrow says:

    The whole past couple of months have been real headscratchers

  201. Bizrow says:

    I think they have a snowballs chance in you know where, but not officially eliminated, from what I understand

  202. cmat0829 says:

    there was a complaint registered to the trademark bureau dating back to 1967. Not sure why ‘it was ok back then’ suffices as a reason to persist now. If that were the case, women wouldn’t be able to vote, we’d have slavery, etc.

    I think in this case ‘political correctness’ gets a bad name. If there are ANY groups offended by the name, then it makes sense to choose a different name. I mean the name literally refers to the color of the skin. I think it’s sensible to not paint with a broad brush on this. For example, no one is clamoring for the Chicago Blackhawks or Atlanta Braves to change their names. But “Redskins” is a bit different than those.

    I just think it is so easy for those not in the affected group to throw cold water on their concerns. I dont’ think the ask here is that egregious. Snyder gets a new name, new logo, gets to sell lots of merchandise. The value of his ‘trademark’ lies fully with his participation in the NFL. If this team, and it’s heritage, were Premier-league like dropped to the minor leagues, his ‘trademark’ value would go down to just about NIL. So to me it’s a league issue and they should just set a new name and go from there.

  203. 21sthebest says:

    I hear you guys but it seems like this whole political correctness trend has just gone way overboard. But don’t get me wrong. I don’t think changing their name would be the worst thing in the world by far. It’s not like I’d disagree if they changed it.

  204. hockeymonster says:

    No. Not mystified.

    If the pens expect highly regarded coaching prospects to bow and surrender to the round tables demands than i dont like their chances of succeeding as a mgmt team. HC may consider your preferred assistants but you can’t force them onto a HC.

    Either anti up and show faith in your coaching hire or go home to your families and work on your golf game. 3 years with a 4th year option vested after year 2 should suffice. Disco will get hired so money shouldn’t be the main concern. Hire WD or Crawford(preferably WD) and move on to figuring out how to draft Scherbak, Mayo and Vanier.

  205. coba39 says:

    If normal people think these professional malcontents will stop their endless bitching if the Redskins cave and change their name, they’re fools. It will only encourage the grievance industry to go after the Indians. Then the Braves. Then the Blackhawks. Then… ad infinitum.

  206. cmat0829 says:

    Yep….and y’all (or yinz) sit down for this one… .closer for the resurgently respectable Houston Astros this year? yup yup you guessed it: CHAD freaking QUALLS.

  207. cmat0829 says:

    1. Gregory Polanco (L) RF
    2. Starling Marte (R) LF
    3. Andrew McCutchen (R) CF
    4. Ike Davis (L) 1B
    5. Russell Martin (R) C
    6. Josh Harrison (R) 2B
    7. Pedro Alvarez (L) 3B
    8. Jordy Mercer (R) SS
    9. Charlie Morton (R) P

  208. 21sthebest says:

    I know people love them John. They’re definitely convenient. Nothing like freshly brewed coffee to me.

    French presses are awesome for that btw. And I was at a relatives several months ago and she still uses a percolator. The coffee was fantastic and blazing hot.

  209. dennis g says:

    The government gave him that “property” and it was obviously a mistake to anyone living in the 21st century. They have the right and the obligation to take it back. No one, by the way is denying him the use of his racist logo, only the right to exclusive use. Why should other racists be denied the same right after all? If you are for limited government interference having the situation revert back to a time when there was no government backed trademark rights should suit you fine.

  210. cmat0829 says:

    OK, what if there was a team named “Nashville N-Words”… would you still feel this way? or “Florida F-Words (derogatory for gay men)”…would we still bemoan political correctness?

    I just think it’s dangerous ground to challenge anyone who is offended by something that we have to all admit is obviously hard to interpret in any other way in terms of nickname origin.

    Maybe I’m not old-fashioned enough, but I have a hard time fighting down someone who is speaking out as being offended by a derogatory nickname for a sports team with a passionate protection of something that is way less meaningful…the right for a team to call itself what it wants. I don’t have a side in this fight.. I’m not offended by the term nor a Washington fan, but on the sidelines here I think I’ll choose to err on the side of not offending a group of people. Don’t see the downside for the NFL team to just switch names….sorry.

  211. pattonbb says:

    I didn’t know she was a Pirate fan. Only reason I know the name was from the viral video of her “adjusting” herself on camera during a Clipper get last year.

  212. dennis g says:

    So Barmes goes 4 for 5 and gets rewarded with a day off?

  213. cmat0829 says:

    and who cares if all these Indian-based nicknames have to change? Who is harmed by the Cleveland baseball team being called the Clash or Lakers or Coyotes or whatever the hell young people who are the fans of the future want them to be called?

    Pretty sure in 20 years umpires will be robots, teams will sport video-game type garb with neon colors and advertising all over it, and players will wear sensors for real-time virtual reality interaction with gamer-fans. And the team names will change to things like Sabrecats (sponsored by Stats, Inc.)!

    This, MLB, NFL and NHL will disband to be replaced by multiple soccer leagues.

  214. hockeymonster says:

    Blackhawk was a inspirational figure and chicago doesn’t get any grief for using the nickname. Braves, blackhawks and indians are in a different category than the R-word. There’s a difference here.

  215. Milo Hamilton says:

    They’re saving him to pinch hit for Pedro.

  216. cmat0829 says:

    yes a 35 year old utility infielder gets plenty of bench time. as it should be.

  217. hockeymonster says:

    Good point. Let the free market decide.

  218. cmat0829 says:

    not that i disagree per se with not letting pedro hit vs lhp with something on the line, but if only Clint would treat Grilli as he is treating Pedro… let him pitch a couple then yank him in favor of Pimentel or Gomez.

  219. dennis g says:

    21 have you ever watched a cowboy movie, perhaps “The Searchers” which is regarded as one of the best westerns ever? That’s where American hero John Wayne tries to get Natalie Wood back from the Indians who captured her so that he can kill her and put her out of her misery since she has been living as an Indian squaw?

    American sentiment has changed quite a bit over the years and we have come a long way since the John Ford western to the Kevin Costner epics.

  220. cmat0829 says:

    btw, has anyone checked in with modern-day Pirates to determine if they are offended OR praised by the Pittsburgh MLB club? I guess it may depend on how Pedro does that particular day :)

    I guess modern-day Pirates would have to include most of mainland China (software, movies, etc.) as well as Somali warlords… might be tough to get a consensus.

    I also think once upon a time Dizzy Gillespie and Louis Armstrong petitioned the NBA to keep the Utah franchise from using the name Jazz….

    trying to lighten it up here on nickname-a-palooza…

  221. Milo Hamilton says:

    Looks like Wet Willie is going to Vancouver. Good.

  222. Nate83 says:

    I didn’t realize Black had been that bad. Thanks for sharing his stats.

    I guess I’m saying I don’t think you should spend a ton of money on or make all your bullpen arms untouchable in a trade because they are so volatile. However you need to have some consistant and quality arms from year to year to have some semblance of a chance to reduce how volatile it can be. It’s important to have 3 or 4 guys like Watson and Melancon who are more likely to post league average stats or better and then fill in around them.

    Essentially you can’t get rid of how volatile it is and shouldn’t spend a ton of money trying to avoid it but make an attempt to at least reduce the degree to which it can fluctuate by at least maintaining and developing relievers that have higher upside. I don’t know if that makes any sense but it’s what I’m going with.

  223. JohninOshkosh says:

    ++++

  224. Nate83 says:

    What’s the chances he does it again. I imagine most people who win the lottery don’t play it the next day.

    That was Barmes 8th 4 hit game of his career. He has never had 5 in a game. Polanco has done that one time already in his 9 game career.

  225. hockeymonster says:

  226. Dejan Kovacevic says:

    Seconded.

  227. hockeymonster says:

    Talks break off with WD?

  228. Milo Hamilton says:

    Your Ulf idea is looking better by the minute.

  229. hockeymonster says:

    You 2 speculating based on silence? Haven’t seen or heard any recent developments since this morning.

  230. Milo Hamilton says:

    So while experienced guys who’ve been fired multiple times win the Stanley Cup, no one fitting that description can seem to get hired.

  231. Milo Hamilton says:

    From Kevin Weekes of NBC & CBC. He says Willie has chosen Vancouver.

  232. hockeymonster says:

    Oh ok. Don’t have nhl network at work. Just saw his twitter. Weeksie is well connected. Just hope this is a ploy to put the squeeze on the pens. Letting WD walk to VAN would be a mistake.

    Pens need to anti up and drop the assistant coach demands and give him a 3-4 year deal.

  233. Milo Hamilton says:

    I think we all might be underestimating what a mess this whole situation is.

  234. NMR says:

    I generally don’t make it my place to tell other people what to be offended by.

    I believe those who think this is solely a “political correctness” issue are forgetting there are actual native americans out there who do not like this. I personally don’t particularly find it offensive, but I’m not a native american.

  235. hockeymonster says:

    I’ve been under no illusion that they aren’t a mess for quite some time. But this is starting to be farcical. Now i’m wondering if ownership is putting their finger on the scale on top of the round table thinking they’ve been anointed by infallible beings. :shaking jandy’s head:

  236. RELENTLESS_FORECHECK says:

    Winning the AHL Coach of the Year last year and the Calder Cup this year gets you noticed, but Desjardins is ready for his first coaching assignment in the NHL. According to some sources, though, he’s been the one that Canucks President Trevor Linden has been targeting from the start (though Linden has been waiting for the AHL playoffs to complete before proceeding).

    After reading more about Desjardins, though, I’m not as convinced he’s the right man for the Pittsburgh job. Why? Reading the articles hockeymonster cited, his bio sounds very familiar: master motivator, excellent communicator, high tempo, aggressive forecheck system. His intensity, and his his combined with his limited experience at the NHL level, may not go over so well with the locker room. To be blunt, he sounds exactly like Dan Bylsma.

    I still like Ulf Samuelsson. He’s got the right type of experience, approach, and temperament to really get the best out of the Penguins… especially the young defensive corps.

    And, I’d go for an unproven AHL coach before I’d bring in Marc Crawford.

  237. Arriba Wilver says:

    I’m not sure exactly what side you ‘re on with that last sentence.

    :-D

  238. hockeymonster says:

    He’s a chess master by comparison to disco.

  239. Milo Hamilton says:

    So Bill Peters chose Carolina over Pittsburgh & Willie Desjardins chose Vancouver over Pittsburgh. Mario needs to call Jimmy Haslem & see how he handled all the rejection.

  240. coba39 says:

    This is truly absurd. If some bureaucrat decides a book you published or a CD you recorded is “racist” and denies you a copyright, you don’t see this as government punishing ideas it doesn’t like? Instead, you deem it as “letting the free market decide”?

    The fascism from the left is obviously limitless.

  241. hockeymonster says:

    Or he can dial (412) mon-ster.

  242. hockeymonster says:

    I’m not unfamiliar with rejection either.

  243. RELENTLESS_FORECHECK says:

    Frankly, I’m even more mystified that Rutherford has prioritized the search for a head coach and left the player decisions and draft strategy completely to his subordinates.

    I have heard that Trevor Linden has been targeting Desjardins all along, but was reluctant to move on him because he was in the midst of coaching his team to an eventual Calder Cup. Of course, winning the Cup increased Desjardins’ stock value considerably, but I still think he ends up in Vancouver. Regardless, I’m not sold on him as the right man for the Penguins.

  244. hockeymonster says:

    Huh? Fascism? Snyder can still use the logo and name but so can others. Are you sure you know what a fascist is? Gov’t makes decisions all the time. Including when to give pro teams and leagues tax breaks, arena/stadium funding, and etc. Those aren’t political decisions? Or is it only political when they don’t get what they want?

  245. coba39 says:

    One hallmark of facism is to use government power to punish political enemies. Is it impossible for you to believe that these bureaucrats in the trademark office saw an opportunity to make a political statement by withholding the trademark?

    And answer me this: How can the same federal government grant copyright protection to rappers whose lyrics are flagrantly racist, but deny trademark protection to the Redskins?

  246. Poole says:

    I have a feeling this will be the same situation as the Rutherford hiring. It ends up being someone we weren’t talking much about. And David Morehouse HAS to be eating some humble pie. This job just isn’t that appealing — a short term basis, chain of command, crazy expectations…

  247. NMR says:

    It’s so painfully obvious when the world moves too fast for certain people.

  248. hockeymonster says:

    When a Native American refers to himself as a R-word then and only then would you maybe possibly have a point. And fascists can be anyone who buys influence in gov’t as well.

  249. JohninOshkosh says:

    Yeah, I saw that. Several times.

  250. hockeymonster says:

    +++

  251. dennis g says:

    The John Wayne character in many Ford movies was the military man charged with rounding up the Indian savages and getting them back on the reservation or killing them, whichever. Kevin Costner tried to show the other side of the picture and won an Academy Award for Dances With Wolves, which was a very sympathetic portrayal of the Indians’ plight as told by an American military man. It’s all a question of perspective and ours is influenced for better or worse (I say better) by the movies we watch.

  252. dennis g says:

    You are confusing trademarks with copyrights. They are not the same thing.

  253. dennis g says:

    That was for Cobra.

  254. dennis g says:

    The reason why copyright protection is granted is to protect works of art. The protections for art and “free speech” are deemed to be much more important than the protections put in place to assist commerce. To prove something is pornographic or racist or any other “ist” would entail endless debate to no particular result. With trademarks it is easier. This is the reason some libraries have taken to “whitewashing” the works of Mark Twain, to remove all racist content. They can do it because the works are in the public domain. Whether it’s a good idea is something else to be endlessly debated. But you cannot mess with authors such as James Baldwin or Ralph Ellison because the copyright is still in effect.

  255. dennis g says:

    There was a lady in Bullhead City Arizona who won the world’s biggest jackpot at a casino near there. She played every weekend and kept her job as a waitress. Less than a year later she won it again in the same casino. There is no reason not to play it again if you think it is worth playing the odds are the same.
    BTW we are not comparing Barmes with Polanco. If that were the case I would say yes, sit him down. We are comparing him with the man who is challenging Todd Snider for the lowest batting average on the team and who also happens to be a pretty bad fielder.

  256. Arriba Wilver says:

    +++

 
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