TribLIVE
Blogs | Sports | News
Dejan Kovacevic's Blog

Pittsburgh sports talk with the Trib columnist

« Font size »
Decrease | Reset |Increase

Final: Pirates 8, Phillies 2

By Dejan Kovacevic | Trib Total Media

Looking ahead to first pitch …

Game: Pirates (44-41) vs. Philadelphia Phillies (37-48)

Time: 5:05 p.m.

Site: PNC Park

TV, Radio: Root Sports, KDKA-FM (93.7)

Here’s the official live box score.

Here’s TribLIVE’s Pirates page and our Bucco Blog. Rob Biertempfel and Travis Sawchik are on the scene for the Trib.

Author: Dejan Kovacevic

Dejan Kovacevic, a lifelong Pittsburgher, is an award-winning sports columnist for Trib Total Media covering the Steelers, Penguins, Pirates, Pitt and, recently, his fourth Olympics in Sochi, Russia. He also appears on WPXI-TV's 'Subway Final Word’ and hosts a weekly show on TribLIVE Radio. For 2011, he was named one of the country's top four columnists by the AP Sports Editors. For 2012, he was named one of the country's top three columnists by the National Headliners. For 2013, he was named the state's top columnist by the Keystone Press Awards and top columnist in Western Pennsylvania by the Golden Quills.

Comments

  1. Lad 9 says:

    Happy 4th to all the Lunatics! Let’s go Bucs!

    Phillies
    Roberto Hernandez (R)

    1. Ben Revere (L) CF
    2. Jimmy Rollins (S) SS
    3. Chase Utley (L) 2B
    4. Ryan Howard (L) 1B
    5. Marlon Byrd (R) RF
    6. Cody Asche (L) 3B
    7. Koyie Hill (S) C
    8. Tony Gwynn Jr. (L) LF
    9. Roberto Hernandez (R) P

    Pirates
    Gerrit Cole (R)

    1. Gregory Polanco (L) RF
    2. Starling Marte (R) LF
    3. Andrew McCutchen (R) CF
    4. Neil Walker (S) 2B
    5. Russell Martin (R) C
    6. Josh Harrison (R) 3B
    7. Gaby Sanchez (R) 1B
    8. Jordy Mercer (R) SS
    9. Gerrit Cole (R) P

    Gametime Forecast: 74°F • Clear • 0% PoP

  2. No Pedro against a righty? Rest day?

  3. Patrick(ri) says:

    Hope it is a sign CH is going to rotate the guy who seems not to mind it, giving Pedro a bit of rest, first?

  4. KING says:

    I think the answer is moving Cutch to 1st base. He has that bad foot which will keep getting aggravated running around the OF.Only makes sense. Moving Cutch to 1st & J-Hay can play the OF…You have your best lineup. Pedro 1st & Cutch 3rd power at the corners.

    Pirates will win 2/3 in series. Today 7-5 & Saturday 6-4…They will lose the AJ pitched game. Boosts record to 46-42 before the big road trip. KING

  5. Arriba Wilver says:

    Call me crazy, but I don’t think Pedro and Clint are going out for dinner together after the game.

  6. Baywatch says:

    Fifth Comment? I hit 5th in Little League! Hoping for a big game from Gaby today – at least one bomb – and Cole getting back to his dominant self!

  7. Baywatch says:

    Reebs, you CRAZY!

  8. Arriba Wilver says:

    I’m guessing your favorite game as a kid was musical chairs, KING. Cole to closer, Cutch to 1B . . .

    ;-)

  9. Thundercrack says:

    Maybe they should go out to dinner after the game. Might not be a crazy idea

  10. Arriba Wilver says:

    Something’s up, that’s for sure.

  11. Patrick(ri) says:

    ++ Cole’s performance may be the most important thing to watch, today.

  12. theplanisworking says:

    Happy 4th to Lad, Patrick, and the irascible Reverend ….. who better be careful with all these fireworks tonight.

  13. Jandy says:

    Happy Big Bang to you too, Hipposter :)

  14. theplanisworking says:

    Bay, doesn’t matter where you bat ……. we just need you in the lineup.

    Happy 4th to ya.

  15. theplanisworking says:

    Jandy Girl, didn’t know you were lurking!

    Happy Big Bang Theory Day to you also!
    Keep Shelby safe ……… (not the car)

  16. Jandy says:

    Hubby is sleeping, and I am playing on the internet for a bit…Shelby is sleeping right with hubby lol. The Shelby will be taken out for a ride later on :)

  17. KING says:

    The Pirates have to be creative with their salary considerations. Cutch & Cole are 1st rd picks & great athletes. Sure, you can move J-Hay to SS & let Cutch play Center. Or hope Pedro regains his power. Pirates cant afford many losses now.Just suggestions. KING

  18. You, too, planetoid.

  19. bradthedad says:

    Great minds and all that, AW. Just texted ‘Something is up’ right before I saw your comment. Batting 7th and 8th, JHay pinch hitting for him, sitting against a right hander, Hurdle calling him out somewhat.

  20. Andrew says:

    I gave up trying to understand Hurdle’s lineups, Hernandez is a sinker, change up pitcher who for his career struggles against LHH, he is about just as likely to walk a lefty as strike him out.

    This year it is worse, against LHH his K% – BB%, is -7.6%, don’t see negatives too often. Righties are slugging . 451 vs .343 for lefties, but slugging is volatile, so I don’t understand both why Davis and Alvarez are sitting, but I guess the Pirates’ analytic guys know more.

  21. cherokee23 says:

    I’ve got no problems how Pedro is being handled.. Just keep hoping it pisses him off enough to find some improvement. Not holding my breath though

  22. Arriba Wilver says:

    Me neither. Hurdle knows way more than us, and Pedro has always walked to his own drummer (ex., refusing winter ball).

  23. Patrick(ri) says:

    Back at ya, plan

  24. Jim S. says:

    Just grab a glove and run out to any position.

  25. LonelyLibertarian says:

    As the Great One pointed out…

    “You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take.”
    Wayne Gretzky

    Will be very hard for Pedro to drive in a run or hit a HR from the bench…

  26. Jim S. says:

    It’s going to be tough for the reigning NL HR champ to get it going if he’s not even going to play vs RHP.

  27. Jim S. says:

    Amen, Patrick! We need our horse back.

  28. Jim S. says:

    Marlon Byrd on Polanco: “If people didn’t understand why the Pirates didn’t sign me to come back, they do now.”

  29. Jim S. says:

    Bay:

    How are you hitting w RISP this year?

  30. Jim S. says:

    Just got back from my son’s game & I have one hour to catch the first half of Brazil-Colombia before turning my attention 100% to the Bucs.

  31. Arriba Wilver says:

    Classy.

  32. Arriba Wilver says:

    Hurdle isn’t stupid.

  33. Jim S. says:

    Exactly, AW. I think Byrd is a good guy, and he knows the score.

  34. Jandy says:

    Going for ice cream….later!

  35. Patrick(ri) says:

    Hmmm, baseball, apple pie or ice cream? Great choice!

  36. Thundercrack says:

    I don’t really look at it as Hurdle calling him out. He answered a question asked of him.
    It is the same answer many of us would have said

  37. Thundercrack says:

    That is a cool thing for him to say.

    But I think there are some members of the Pgh media that don’t think Byrd is such a great guy. ( ie..Starkey)

  38. Jim S. says:

    Choice?

    I’ll take plenty of all 3, please!! :-)

  39. cherokee23 says:

    All three!

  40. Jim S. says:

    Good idea, Jandy!

    I’ll bet you’re going to some local establishment that is a fixture in your town for 100 years, right?

  41. Arriba Wilver says:

    At the time he said it, I would agree with you. Actions speak louder than words, though. Something is up.
    Maybe it’s that Pedro has a tummy ache, but my tummy tells me something else, more significant, may be going on here.

  42. cherokee23 says:

    Not so much his words, but Hurdles actions are clearly calling him out

  43. Jim S. says:

    I didn’t know that, TC. I miss some local stuff being so far away. Thanks.

  44. Thundercrack says:

    Jim, I’m not even sure what the whole story between the two of them was. But I also heard that another guy in the media say that at times Byrd could be difficult (not in the best mood all the time).

    But I did read all the quotes from Byrd and AJ from Bucs Dugout. Great stuff from both of them. It just made me think that it seems like when a player leaves or isn’t resigned we fans tend to look for some sort of animosity…when there really isn’t any.

  45. The Gunner says:

    Pedro is still in siesta mode apparently. Maybe he is working his way into Clint’s doghouse.

  46. Patrick(ri) says:

    ++++

  47. Flbucco says:

    Perhaps,

    But I find it interesting that an organization that talks about building from within and the draft seems to struggle at times in developing young talent…
    - Marte earlier this year
    - Josh Harrison only getting a shot after Tabata and Snider proved to be so awful
    - Pedro for at least the last 2+ years
    - Cumpton not getting a slot in the rotation after a very goo spring training

    My impression is he prefers veterans and hold them to a different standard…

    I could be wrong, but that’s my impression.

  48. Jim S. says:

    +++, TC.

  49. Jim S. says:

    I don’t know what, if anything, is going on with CH & PA. I do think El Toro needs to get straightened out if we are to have any chance this year. But, I always say that the toughest part of being a Manager is the interpersonal stuff. I think that is where Clint excels. So, I’ll trust that he has it under control.

  50. Arriba Wilver says:

    Against my better judgment I’m going to respond.

    Mercer’s playing, Cumpton went down because of options and Harrison is hardly a “veteran” over Pedro, so where is the relevant evidence from this year?

  51. Bizrow says:

    I’m sure he will be asked questions on the lineup, lets see what we can glean from that.

  52. War_Horse says:

    Just for the historical record, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland completely ignored the Independence Day celebrations of its closest ally today for the 238th consecutive year. There were no fireworks, no barbeques and no beer-drinking despite a warm summer day with temperatures in the high teens (C). The U.S. Ambassador held the usual discreet party for a carefully-chosen group of expatriates deep in the gardens of Regents Park, London.

  53. The Gunner says:

    AW

    Absolutely – Pedro is in the doghouse.

  54. LonelyLibertarian says:

    Just did some digging around…

    Pedro is seeing the lowest % of fastballs he has in the last 3 years – 44% – lowest on the Pirates – Cutch is next lowest.

    He is seeing a lot more curves and change ups – 28.1% vs 20.6% last year…

    This might be why he is sitting today…

    On the other hand he does like day games – and while this is a 5PM start it will be over before the sun is fully down most likely.

    I am sure we will all be waiting to hear Hurdles post game – and Huntington on Sunday…

  55. Arriba Wilver says:

    I’m “shocked.” ;-)

  56. Jim S. says:

    Good post, War Horse. I hope you at least will hoist one over there on Independence Day.

  57. Andrew says:

    Wilver, I always assume that managers/coaches have more information, they probably they some better numbers and some video scouting of why RHH are succeeding against Hernandez.

  58. Andrew says:

    Alvarez has always crushed in zone fastballs, he has been seeing less fastballs and less in the zone pitches. League is subtitling adjusting, he needs to adjust back.

  59. Andrew says:

    War Horse at least you get Guy Fawkes day.

  60. Karen22 says:

    Got that right! We need to see 2013 Cole and in a hurry!

  61. Arriba Wilver says:

    +++

  62. Karen22 says:

    Absolutely in the doghouse…but can’t they send him DOWN to work on stuff? This is just weird.

  63. Jim S. says:

    Neverett just said Walker is waiting for his first trip to the AS Game.

    I sure hope so, but I doubt it. Utley and Gordon will go. That appendectomy just made it easier for Matheny to leave PRNW at home.

  64. Karen22 says:

    +++++++++++ :)

  65. LonelyLibertarian says:

    As I said – just an impression – maybe I am reaching – Harrison was hitting very well at AAA Last year and was not called up until relatively late as I recall. He seemed to get his opportunity out of desperation – not as a result of actually earning it – and surprised everyone – including the FO.

    As I recall – and I am not an expert on this by any means, one of the criticisms of him in Colorado was he let the team “get away from him” after that one great year. When he tried to be stricter – more disciplined some of they younger players rebelled and the older players were not able to save his job.

    But the bigger point is relates to what DK said in his column…

    This team needs Pedro and Marte performing well if it is going to win – there will be plenty of opportunity to work in Harrison as either a platoon option or providing a day off for a regular.

    Perhaps all this is, is a day off

  66. Maz in Iowa says:

    I gotta say…I’m liking the line up.

  67. Lad 9 says:

    I think Byrd was a little flighty….

  68. Cmat0829 says:

    Happy 4th everyone. Ah, out traditions. Baseball, barbecue, and blogs !!

  69. Lad 9 says:

    Biz, absolutely loved your post toward the end of the other thread. When we see what we have in the greatest country in the world, we need to remember those who started it all and what they sacrificed. Thank you.

  70. Cmat0829 says:

    Happy 4th everyone. Ah, our traditions. Baseball, barbecue, and blogs !!

  71. Patrick(ri) says:

    And no broken fingers!

  72. Lad 9 says:

    Plan, Happy 4th to you my friend. Good to see you!

  73. Maz in Iowa says:

    You can say that again!

  74. Arriba Wilver says:

    Sure this team needs Marte and Pedro to perform well to succeed. That’s not the issue. They need Liriano and others to perform, too. I don’t get the point, Flbucco.

  75. Lad 9 says:

    Happy 4th Cmat. And you can add beverage to the list of B’s for today.

  76. Jim S. says:

    I see it’s little league base running day at the ballpark again today for the Bucs. Ugh!

  77. Jim S. says:

    4 batters, 3 reach safely, 2 SBs & we need a 2 out hit to score off this tomato can.

  78. 21sthebest says:

    100% on Leyva from where I’m sitting.

  79. hockeymonster says:

    Bucs have better winning % with Martin? Just saw he only played 40 some game.

  80. Arriba Wilver says:

    He could play, I’m cool with that.

  81. twentytwo22 says:

    gj Martin

  82. Jim S. says:

    I loved it also. I’ve read those stories about the Founders before, and I believe them to be absolutely accurate. They were far from perfect, but they formed the greatest country ever to grace the earth.

  83. Lad 9 says:

    You missed the rim shot AW. :). Happy 4th btw

  84. Maz in Iowa says:

    Small ball.Nice

  85. Jim S. says:

    Wow! What could he have been thinking? Rollins picked the ball up as Marte rounded 3rd. They have rallied to score 2 and are still batting, but it could have been more.

  86. Patrick(ri) says:

    You want to grab a lead, bigger the better,with CB behind the plate.

  87. Lad 9 says:

    Tomato can Jim? That might be too nice. :)

  88. Maz in Iowa says:

    It’s like the Gas House Gorillas conga line in the Bugs Bunny cartoon.

  89. Karen22 says:

    NICE clutch-hitting inning! Really needed one of those last night (I was there and it was painful).

  90. Cmat0829 says:

    Yes a beverage or two is in the offing. A toast to all yinz. Nice start to our game tonight.

  91. Maz in Iowa says:

    Mercer getting closer to that .270 mark.His glove is better this year as well.I keep reminding myself it’s his first full year.Good Hurdle keeps him playing.

  92. KING says:

    Love this start!!! Was listening to Sure Know Something by KISS &Pirates scored 4 runs. Guess I’m going to have to play it all 9 innings now. LOL!!!

    Jay-Hay strikes again RBI. The guy just brings tears to your eyes. Gives everything what a player! Hope he sneaks in on that FAN ballot. Happy Birthday July 8th J-Hay!!! KING

  93. Jim S. says:

    Yikes! He threw 40+ pitches and was lucky to get out of it with 4 due to Leyva’s brain cramp, Lad.

  94. Chuck H says:

    What made Marte think he could advance 2 bases on an infield single? He is a stupid baserunner..always was. He runs when he doesn’t have to, with 1st base open.

  95. LonelyLibertarian says:

    I guess it is me – I worked hard to manage people for the last 20 years before I retired – before that I was pretty much on my own – no staff…

    I always felt you got more from those who worked for you by being supportive – and teaching when needed.

    When Hurdle was asked the infamous question and responded.
    “We need to see more consistency”

    I think he was wrong – REGARDLESS of what he personally felt – you don’t insult a proud man who has contributed in the past and you want to contribute in the future regardless of what is going on behind the scenes.

    Compare this incident to the boiler plate BS that the FO spewed when Grilli – who I think we now know was pretty much a jerk – was shipped to LA.

    A better approach IMHO would have been…

    “We like some things we see from Pedro and he is trying to cut down on strike outs and use the entire field, but at this point he is a very good fastball hitter and is not seeing a lot of fastballs in the zone. Baseball is a game of constant adjustments and we work with Pedro every day to help him be more consistent.”

    Same basic message – but very different tone…

    If you DON’T want to work with the young man – trade him – the Yankees will gladly install him at 3rd for the next 10 years and he will love that short porch at the new Yankee Stadium.

    On your other point – I am not sure they really need Liriano – I would love to see him return to form – but if he doesn’t the depth needed is in Indy.

    Where do you find 25+ HRs to replace Pedro?

  96. Patrick(ri) says:

    Best of all worlds, CB squabbling with the other team. Now that we have a lead, we can just smile and take his calls in stride.

  97. Arriba Wilver says:

    Same to you, and everybody, Lad.

  98. Jim S. says:

    Gerrit still needs to work on finishing guys off. Too many pitches.

  99. twentytwo22 says:

    Any response to Byrd being announced? ROOT did a crowd shot/promo read.

  100. tomf says:

    I believe he is also responsible for the positioning of the Pirates outfielders

  101. dennis g. says:

    Last year Pirate winning PC was .580, with Martin starting it was .566. This year the Pirates record is worse and Martin’s is better, .517 to .577 for Martin.

  102. Lad 9 says:

    I hear ya. If I pitched like that I would probably change my name too!

  103. KING says:

    Pirates jump out early choking the life out of the Phillies 4-0. That’s what great teams do to struggling teams.

    I am a little surprised Phillies doing so poorly. Guys like Byrd,Howard,Rollins,Utley are championship type ball players.They are in their mid 30′s now. I guess it will be time to rebuild for Philly. They sure had a strong run. 1 World Series win & another World Series lost.

    A Fourth of July raising would be outstanding. KING

  104. Arriba Wilver says:

    There are so many fallacies in your posts, FlBucco/LonelyLibertarian, there is no point in responding. Too complicated to sort things out.

    On another note, though, why post under 2 different names when you don’t even bother to hide it?

    You aren’t “dog” from Smizik’s blog, are you?

  105. tomf says:

    that is the center fielders ball

    most times

  106. Cmat0829 says:

    Phils are too damn old. And their pitching is rotten. Ryne Sandberg doing his best john Russell imitation

  107. War_Horse says:

    Done, thanks Jim.

  108. Maz in Iowa says:

    Except Rhyno is a bit hot headed at times.JR looked comatose at times.

  109. Arriba Wilver says:

    +++

  110. Florida Steeler says:

    Neil Walker batting fourth–whew, no power on this team other than Pedro and even he is not hitting many long balls. Be very difficult to say Neil deserves to be on all star team.

  111. LonelyLibertarian says:

    I think I offered an opinion – not sure how my fallacies apply – you can certainly disagree with my POV – but I think I am entitled to believe what I believe.

    Not sure why it bugs you – but I use two different devices – they are configured to autologon – the desktop will log me in here and a number of other places using the LL handle.

    My iPad – which I generally use when I am sitting in front of the TV [and my iPhone should I ever use it - seldom do] are configured with the FlB.

    If u see my posts it does not take a genius to figure out over a week or so that both handles are the same person.

    And I didn’t think a response to my post was required or warranted…

    You could have simply said.

    “everyone is entitled to their own opinion”

    if you wanted to be nice or…

    BULLSHIT!

    if you were otherwise inclined.

    Either works – neither would offend – I am too old to GAS.

    I did ask YOU a question though – others should feel free to opine…

    If you get your way and Pedro is traded or sent to Indy, how would you propose to replace the 25+ home runs and 80+ RBIs he provides?

  112. LonelyLibertarian says:

    I had to go fix a hot dog – but before I left I could have sworn I saw the MVP watching and trotting on his fly ball to the gap rather than running full speed.

    Must not have been the case since I don’t see anything noting it on the thread.

    Happy Fourth to all!

  113. Florida Steeler says:

    Check Snopes on that story.

  114. dennis g. says:

    I forgive him if he is playing hurt, which appears to be the case. I’m sure he will be gratified to read that after the game.

  115. Bizrow says:

    I saw that posted somewhere else, maybe not all truth, I didn’t check, but those folks were courageous no matter if they had flaws or not. And I thank them for what they did for us and what they have given to us ;-)

  116. Patrick(ri) says:

    Say what you will, but the camera shots of Pittsburgh are awesome today.

  117. War_Horse says:

    If Cutch had run to first as hard as he normally does, he’d have had a chance at an inside the park home run. But, he didn’t hustle.

  118. Karen22 says:

    Hard to take a bad photo there…amazing landscape!

  119. hockeymonster says:

    Thanks.

  120. Karen22 says:

    COLE! Looking good!

  121. LonelyLibertarian says:

    Had a basketball coach – Hank Kuzma who told me if you want to play injured I am fine with that – but DO NOT let me see you hustle less or try and excuse a mistake with “but I am injured” The great Chas Knoll had a similar approach I believe.

  122. John Lease says:

    Now Andrew, we’ve both seen Pedro flail at in zone fastballs plenty too. It’s not like if it’s down the middle it’s a homer. He misses plenty.

  123. LonelyLibertarian says:

    On a positive note…

    What a great play by Josh – not sure Pedro can make that play…

  124. John Lease says:

    Every starter except Cole has now either had a hit or drawn a walk.

    I like that.

  125. cherokee23 says:

    LL/flbucco. I think for over 2 years they have used the “supportive” method. As I said earlier, I don’t have a problem with the changing in how he’s being handled

  126. Bizrow says:

    ++++++

  127. John Lease says:

    How about that?

  128. Patrick(ri) says:

    Polanco not a thing of beauty, but just as effective as Cutch.

  129. Bizrow says:

    Cutch now a HR away from the cycle

  130. John Lease says:

    I like runs. McCutchen just needs a homer now. I’d like to see Walker and Gabby get a hit too. I can’t remember the last time Gabby actually HAD a hit.

  131. Maz in Iowa says:

    Hmm. MVP is a HR short of the cycle and it’s still in the 4th inning.

  132. Patrick(ri) says:

    A faux George Reeves sighting. No way he could jump through a window!

  133. John Lease says:

    Gameday is so slow, ball in play, no outs. SO WHAT HAPPENED?

  134. John Lease says:

    I guess Neil got a hit. It’s now commercial time for gameday, which brings it to a close for me.

  135. cherokee23 says:

    ++

  136. KING says:

    Pirates strong performance 5-0!!! One more run should salt it away. J-Hay made another great D play. What can you say! J-Hay has made it difficult to sit him with his stellar play in the field & his hot bat.

    Here’s a question:Would you be angry if they moved Pirates back into NL East? I like the NL Central teams Cincy, STL, Chicago,Mil. It has become a challenging division nearly every year. KING

  137. Arriba Wilver says:

    Here’s one of the problems with your posts, FB/LL—I have never suggested Pedro be traded or sent to AAA this year. Not once. Haven’t opined on either. You obviously assume I have. Probably assume it’s racial also.

    You think Clint is a bigot?

    Smh

  138. Bizrow says:

    He beat out a hit to the SS

  139. Bizrow says:

    2 outs

    Gwynn gets HBP

    Hernandez grounds to short

    On to bottom of 5th, Bucs 5-0

  140. War_Horse says:

    Bob Walk is funny. After Cole hit Gwynn, Walk announced: “94 mile-per-hour fastball. Got him good!”

  141. Thundercrack says:

    I think for half the season the should be in the East and the other half in the Central.

  142. Jim S. says:

    So, apparently our boys are out to prove a point today and erase the stench of yesterday.

  143. Bizrow says:

    JHay, grounds out to short
    Sanchez K’s
    Hurdle goes to the Home Plate Ump to talk about something, no idea what it was, Sanchez swung and missed at third strike
    Mercer flies to deep left

    On to 6th

  144. Arriba Wilver says:

    We all are entitled to our beliefs and to post what we want, within certain parameters. But when you mischaracterize what others are saying, accuse them of bigotry because they disagree with you you’re going to get an appropriate response.

    So, you didn’t respond, are you “dog?”

  145. Bizrow says:

    Cole is pulled, no reason yet, threw 80 pitches, Stolmy is coming into the game

  146. Bizrow says:

    Obviously some sort of health issue, Stolmy has as much time as he needs

  147. Maz in Iowa says:

    Out of charcoal lighter fluid.I wonder if I could borrow Frieri. :)

  148. Bizrow says:

    Now that is being on the fence ;-)

  149. Lad 9 says:

    Don’t like that at all. Hope it is nothing serious.

  150. Lad 9 says:

    ++++++ Nice Maz

  151. Jim S. says:

    Offensively, he was in top 3 of NL 2b in just about every category, and led in several when he hit injured. The injury killed him.

  152. Maz in Iowa says:

    Skies have very few clouds.Yet a Stolmy has been reported

  153. dennis g. says:

    Did you play at Midland? or Steubenville? Kuzma was a great coach, maybe the best ever in WPIAL, but he never coached in the pros. Diving for a loose basketball with 12 seconds to go in a tie game is not quite the same thing as running full speed, at the risk of greater injury, on a pop fly.

  154. Bizrow says:

    Revere walks, Wild Pitch to second
    Rollins walks, two on no out
    Searage goes to the mound, bullpen is active

  155. Bizrow says:

    Hughes is warming up, Utley comes to the plate

  156. Arriba Wilver says:

    +++++

  157. Thundercrack says:

    This broadcast by ROOT, announcers & camera work, is going to drive me to drink and yell obcentites at the tv

  158. Bizrow says:

    Utley singles down the first base line, first and third, 5-1 BUCS

  159. dennis g. says:

    Not familiar with Chas Knoll.

  160. Florida Steeler says:

    How is this guy and Frieri on this team and Cumpton in the minors??

  161. What happened to Cole?

  162. Bizrow says:

    Howard walks, pitching change

  163. Bizrow says:

    No word yet

  164. Patrick(ri) says:

    This is where I would change the book and bring back an out of print version: best reliever you have to put down the rally.

  165. Jim S. says:

    Game no longer totally in hand. Suddenly, they may be fortunate to get out of this inning with more than a 1-run lead.

  166. Jim S. says:

    Yeah, Tony Watson right here.

  167. Reading says:

    Need to start skipping 6th inning.

  168. Bill_StateCollege says:

    Just checked in. Is anyone else as worried about Cole as I am?

  169. Bizrow says:

    Byrd grounds to JHay, double play, 5-2 Bucs, two outs

  170. Maz in Iowa says:

    Stolmy 20 pitches……8 were strikes….3 BB

  171. Patrick(ri) says:

    That works. Nice DP, though Walk had to set his words about a low sinker.

  172. LonelyLibertarian says:

    Cope revered to Coach Knoll as “Empirer Chas” from time to time – only Myron could get away with it…

  173. Patrick(ri) says:

    That was my thought, too Jim. A good thing we are just fans,

  174. Bizrow says:

    Asche up, and strikes out looking

    Bottom of 6th, 5-2 Good Guys

  175. LonelyLibertarian says:

    Cope referred to Coach Knoll as “Empirer Chas” from time to time – only Myron could get away with it…

  176. Reading says:

    STFD Asche.

  177. Patrick(ri) says:

    Make that “eat,” of course.

  178. War_Horse says:

    Harrison looking consistent at 3B.

  179. Lad 9 says:

    LURCH!!!! Nice job – with an assist from CB.

  180. Andrew says:

    Yes, he lost velocity on his fastball last start as the game progressed, the same this start, I don’t think he is healthy.

  181. Jim S. says:

    I said Watson should pitch. I guess that’s why they pay Clint to manage. Sling Blade does it. Mmm-hmmm.

  182. Maz in Iowa says:

    “Don’t rock the boat “….Hughes Corporation shuts the door ….(I know wrong spelling)

  183. LonelyLibertarian says:

    Midland-I was a token White Guy – and enforcer…

    They won the State Championship the year after I graduated – we lost to Uniontown in the WPIAL finals the year before.

    As for getting a pass on not running hard…

    Remember that the next time Marte is caught jogging on a ball off of the wall..

  184. Lad 9 says:

    Yes. I am worried too.

  185. Reading says:

    Is Hernandez at 250 pitches.

  186. Bizrow says:

    Cole has right lat soreness

  187. Maz in Iowa says:

    Injured side?

  188. Bizrow says:

    Pedro hits for Lurch, pops up
    Wilson is warming up

  189. Thundercrack says:

    This is why you don’t just move Cumpton to the bullpen. If Cole goes on to the DL you can bring him up and he is still stretched out as a starter.

  190. Reading says:

    Lurch answered the bell.

  191. Cumpton not pitching that well in Indy today. 4 runs, 3 earned in 4 innings.

    He pitches better at the ML level.

    Tony Sanchez is under the Mendoza line.

    He hits better at the ML level.

    Tabata is around .214

    Not motivated.

  192. Arriba Wilver says:

    Polanco knows the strike zone better than the ump. And he has a worse angle.

    Love this guy.

  193. Bill_StateCollege says:

    +++

  194. Bizrow says:

    Polanco K’s looking
    Marte walks, 117 pitches for Hernandez

  195. Bizrow says:

    ++++

  196. Bill_StateCollege says:

    ++++

  197. Bizrow says:

    Pitching change for Phillies

  198. Karen22 says:

    CRAP!! NOT good! I am officially worried about the pitching again.

  199. Bizrow says:

    Cutch grounds out to short, on to 7th

  200. Jim S. says:

    It’s like Sandberg just told the guy in the first inning, “You’re going to get us to the 6th. Figure it out.”

  201. Bizrow says:

    Wilson in

    Hill grounds out to Gaby
    Mayberry flies to left
    Grounder to short

    On to bottom of 7th

  202. Jim S. says:

    If Cole goes to the DL, I start to get very concerned.

  203. Bizrow says:

    Thank goodness for pitching changes, the dogs were getting hungry and giving me evil looks

    Wife is now doing same ;-)

  204. Bizrow says:

    Lucky, they did say they will know more tomorrow about Cole

  205. Karen22 says:

    YES!

  206. Jim S. says:

    Talk about needing to find some consistency. Stolmy is the poster boy for inconsistency. But, he’s young and he has a great arm. The stuff just doesn’t seem to be there sometimes.

  207. dennis g. says:

    Class of 1964; did you play against Bennett Gregory, Stu Lantz and the rest of the best WPIAL team in history? I watched the finals on television, but cannot remember the semi-finals. I was class of ’65, same a Simmie and Norman. I was kidding about Chas Knoll because his name is Noll.

    I did not say to give anyone a pass. I am saying don’t be ridiculously aggressive on a fly ball that will be caught at least 90% of the time, in a 5-0 game when you are already injured.

  208. Jim S. says:

    Funny stuff, Biz.

  209. dennis g. says:

    LOL.

  210. Jim S. says:

    So true, TC.

  211. tomf says:

    Cole should have been shut down earlier this season (when he went on DL)

    he had shoulder ‘fatigue’ well before the all star break

  212. Bizrow says:

    PRNW flies to left
    Martin walks
    JHay pops to center
    Sanchez grounds to third, third baseman throws it into the stands, hit and error, 2nd and 3rd, two outs, Mercer up

  213. Bizrow says:

    Mercer doubles down the 3rd base line, 7-2 Good Guys

  214. Bizrow says:

    Vanimal pinch hitting, grounds to 3rd

    Its Dr Watson time

  215. dennis g. says:

    Is the “mercy” rule in effect? Why is Worley Batting with two lefties and Stewart still on the bench?

  216. LonelyLibertarian says:

    Only time I visited Smizik was after he made like the trade for Ike Davis was a great success – he owes me – told him that Davis would be batting .260 with half a dozen HRs at the All Start break – so no I am not “dog”…

    Why are you so obsessed with this identity crap…

    If you want to know WHY I get a bit sensitive on the racial stuff, give this a read…

    http://www.amazon.com/Clemente-Passion-Grace-Baseballs-Last-ebook/dp/B00BSBVK4A/ref=dp_kinw_strp_1

    I lived through this period and was embarrassed to see many fellow fans “bash” Clemente – call him a hypochondriac – make fun of his accent and taking offense at being called “Bobby” by the great Bob Prince. Many took offense that he chose to speak in Spanish and expected to be accurately translated rather than speak in broken/poor english. And as I noted earlier a Pittsburgh sportswriter actively campaigned against Roberto for MVP [Les Biederman according to this source.

    http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Saluting+Pittsburgh's+finest.-a0181757196

    Here’s the specific passage…

    racial indignities evidenced by baseball writers who quoted his dialect disparagingly, as in “Let Me Peetch,” a Pittsburgh paper’s headline concerning Clemente’s complaints about pitchers who too often tried to back him off the plate with hard inside offerings. More seriously, there were individuals such as Les Biederman, a Pittsburgh sportswriter, who lobbied against Clemente’s winning the National League Most Valuable Player Award due to, Clemente felt, his being a dark-skinned Puerto Rican.

    So when I see how easy it seems for some to jump on the Marte’s and Alvarez’s and how hard it seems to be to be critical of Ike Davis or wonder if the awful defense we are seeing from Walker and Davis I may jump to conclusions that are unfair and unwarranted – but their is history. I posted earlier Bautista’s comments on how he felt after working hard to be a good player on a pretty bad Pirate team.

    Perhaps it is me – but I think that we should support and pull for ALL Pirates to be successful – I WANT Ike Davis to wake up in the second half and hit 15-20 HRs.

    I want Walker to start making plays and returning to at least and average 2nd baseman.

    And I have read the comments on “maybe it is time to take a different approach” with Pedro.

    Well folks the economics of this sport would suggest that if you are smart you do ALL you can do to make Pedro more valuable – the “consistency” comment will be played back to Huntington by EVERY GM he tries to work a trade with – either at the deadline or in the off season.

    If I could ask Huntington one question, I would love to know how long was it after Hurdle made what IN MY OPINION was a stupid and unnecessary comment like that before he heard from Borjas. I bet it was less than a day…
    And if you think there is ANY chance of extending Pedro – that comment may not prohibit negotiating one – but it assures that it will be very expensive.

  217. Maz in Iowa says:

    Not sure what shoulder fatigue has to do with a lat injury.

  218. Bizrow says:

    First guy flies to center
    Rollins pops to PRNW
    Utley 3-1

    Watson is amazing

  219. Thundercrack says:

    Someone please tell Walk that Terry the Camera Guy may be popular at PNC but he is far from popular in my house

  220. Bizrow says:

    Yes, same thing Liriano has

  221. Bizrow says:

    +++++

    POTD???

  222. scott says:

    So, while there’s a break in the action. Did any of you guys attend the fanfest on Sunday? What a blast…and what a blast furnace, ha ha. Man it was smokin’ down on the field. Never met players before and what a bunch of nice guys. Talked to a security guy the entire time, got some pretty interesting insights…favorite Pirate you ask?….Josh Harrisson

  223. Bill_StateCollege says:

    Geez I can’t stand the Root broadcasts. The continual crowd shots are just too much to take.

  224. Jim S. says:

    Have a day, Jordy! And, he’s hitting RHPs. He must not like the idea of JHay taking balls at SS in practice.

  225. Maz in Iowa says:

    Mercer doubles up the Phillies run total……all by himself

  226. Bill_StateCollege says:

    I look forward to broadcasts of away games for this very reason.

  227. Jim S. says:

    It’s definitely in the team photo.

  228. Bizrow says:

    Polanco walks
    Marte pops to right
    Cutch hits one within a couple of feet from a dinger off the Clemente Wall, settles for a double, 8-2

  229. Bizrow says:

    I hope you folks didn’t mind me doing PBP today, it seemed like some lunatics were having trouble getting game feeds and action.

    Biz, signing off for now, could someone please post any news from the CH post game comments to our family here?

  230. Florida Steeler says:

    You do good work–better than Brown and Company!!!!

  231. Cumpton finished with a decent line.

    6 innings, 8 hits, 4 runs, 3 earned, 3 K’s, but 2 HR’s.

    Must have heard Cole came out hurt. Seemed more motivated. ;)

  232. Maz in Iowa says:

    Mammoth day by the MVP.A triple….2 doubles…AND a single.Must be why he’s an MVP!Oh yeah,kudos to Mercer and his 4 RBI too!

  233. Florida Steeler says:

    I agree–I have e-mailed execs at Root about their stupid fan shots but never get a response.

  234. Patrick(ri) says:

    Good night to all. Now to comfort two of three beagles who go nuts when the fireworks start. The third guy just sleeps through it — almost renamed him John Russell a few years back. A truly happy fourth.

  235. Lad 9 says:

    Raise it! News flash – this is a pretty good team! Hope Cole is OK. Enjoy the fireworks Loonies.

  236. Arriba Wilver says:

    :-)

  237. Jim S. says:

    Well, we could continue to discuss how he stinks in CF (not true) or that he doesn’t hustle (also not true). Last year, it was that he couldn’t hit in the clutch and that he was out stealing too often. Not the case any longer, I guess.

    10 years from now, there is a decent chance he is being discussed as a HOF candidate. He has hit .327, .317 in the past 2 years, and is back over .320 this year. He is doing this in a pitcher’s park. Put Cutch in Miller Park and his numbers would be ridiculous.

    Sorry for going off a bit, but some people really need to find someone else to rip on. I respect everyone’s opinion, but ripping him is just silly. We are damn lucky this guy plays for us, and does so as the biggest bargain in MLB by a wide margin.

  238. Andrew says:

    Florida that is great, I first noticed this with Fox Sports broadcast of college football years ago, and it has crept to every network to varying degrees and I detest it.

  239. Maz in Iowa says:

    Mercer hitting about .310 with 19 RBI since May 30th.Only Cutch has more RBI since the end of May

  240. Jim S. says:

    Same to you, Patrick. My dog is also a nervous nelly when the fireworks start.

  241. KING says:

    Raise the Jolly Roger!!! Pirates blast Phillies 8-2 at PNC Park. Mercer & Cutch have excellent games. Now 45-41 and in the Wild Card hunt. Bucs hoping to get their 1st sweep of year. Phillies still have good talent Howard,Rollins,Utley etc. A big win. KING

  242. Maz in Iowa says:

    I agree.Not sure why you want to rip on a guy who is about as good as anyone(not named Trout).

  243. Jim S. says:

    Cumpton has a way of keeping it together even when he doesn’t have much on a particular day, Lucky.

  244. tomf says:

    Phils talent is on the wrong side of the hill

  245. Jim S. says:

    It is curious. I guess when you’re that good people expect perfection. Perfection doesn’t happen in baseball often. Hard game.

  246. Thundercrack says:

    Thanks Lucky

  247. Maz in Iowa says:

    BTW Cincy leading Beermakers 4-0

  248. Jim S. says:

    Exactly.

  249. Andrew says:

    Update on Cole (via Twitter, so the caveats about credibility are in play.)

    Cole: A little tight no pain, completely different from pain I felt that landed him on DL.

    Hurdle: Hurdle says the team is not overly concerned about Cole. Will know more tomorrow.

  250. Maz in Iowa says:

    So prolly no reason for anyone to flip out.Relax everyone ….nothing to see here.

  251. Jim S. says:

    Getting some help from the Reds – up 4-0 vs Brewers.

    Marlins just wild pitched home the first run vs StL. 1-0 Cards in the 6th.

  252. Jim S. says:

    I’m still plenty concerned.

  253. Maz in Iowa says:

    Pirates could be 5 1/2 games out tonight.

  254. Andrew says:

    As am I. He just came off the DL for “shoulder fatigue,” your latissimus is part of the shoulder complex. And again he hasn’t been able to maintain his velocity into the middle innings. Honestly the Pirates should be exploring the trade market for starters.

    http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/cache/speed2.php-pitchSel=543037&game=gid_2014_07_04_phimlb_pitmlb_1&batterX=&innings=yyyyyyyyy&sp_type=1&s_type=2&league=mlb&cache=1.gif

  255. Jim S. says:

    “Did I hear my name mentioned?”

    - B. McCarthy

  256. Jim S. says:

    Yep, although Milwaukee is mounting a 7th inning rally. 4-1, 2 on & none out.

    Ramirez successfully faked getting HBP on a foul ball, then a single, then infield hit. Typical spot where Brewers have capitalized all year.

  257. Maz in Iowa says:

    Lohse taken out and will end up with the loss.Nice to see they’re losing with their ace.YESSS

  258. Jim S. says:

    Reds just got a great called strike 3 on a full count for the first out. Well inside, I thought. I’ll take it.

    Than a groundout. One out away from getting out of this sticky spot with just 1 run.

  259. Maz in Iowa says:

    Inning over.4-1

  260. LonelyLibertarian says:

    I got to watch a really great game from a really good seat – towards the end of the bench…

    Uniontown was awesome – won 3 of 5 championship – even numbered years…

    If you do a bit of Googling you can find a couple of short summaries of the game..

    Simmie Hill – who died a couple of years ago was injured in the 3rd quarter and could not return. He was our primary scoring option. The inside force – Ronnie Brown – my best friend on the team – it was my job to let him abuse me in practice fouled out…

    That left Norm Van Lier to try and win the game down the stretch – Storm’n Norman kept the game close – we lost 46-43. Even the Uniontown coach conceded that we would have won had Simmie not been hurt – but it was a great game – some say the best in WPIAL history.

    I graduated and that made the team a whole lot better – they won easily the next year – I think the closest game was 18 points.

    Hill went on to be college vagabond – played in the ABA and finished up in the NBA – returned to Midland broke – spent his pretty big earnings on cocain and such. He was actually one of my Mom’s cases when she worked at the Welfare office in Beaver County – later became a born again Christian – passed a year or two ago.

    Van-Lier went on to be a pretty darn good NBA point guard with the Bulls – paired with Jerry Sloan to be one of the best defensive tandems in the league – later broadcaster and made a run at Bulls head coaching job – he died about 5 years ago.

  261. Jim S. says:

    4-1 Reds over Milw.

    3-0 Cards over Marlins. Where’s Casey McGeheehee when we need him?

  262. Andrew says:

    Loney, Occam’s razor, fans are fickle, they want their team to succeed and if a player isn’t helping he is going to receive some harsh comments. If Alvarez gets hot you’ll start seeing comments about how Bob Nutting needs to open his wallet and extend the man.

    The idea that fans here are critical of players because of race is just simply false attribution by you.

    What Marte and Alvarez have in common is they make visible memorable mistakes, in which a significant segment of fans react to and form negative opinions. Marte is actually one of the better rated base runners in league, but most fans don’t look or care about UBR or BrS. Walker’s issue is limited range, he doesn’t make errors, the visible mistakes, because he doesn’t get to those lower percentage balls. Alvarez on the other hand has average range, his issue is sending missiles into the fifth row, the visible mistake.

    Most fans like sports because of the competition, entertainment, and dare I say sports is one of the few places that meritocracy actually operates in the world, if you can play they’ll find a spot for you. When you cannot, your name and past heroics don’t count for much, it is a results based environment, they’ll find someone else who can produce results.

    Most fans are just reacting to what has recently happen especially in game threads. DK’s blogs is the most civil I have seen on the internet, people have different opinions, they argue and most of all they want Pittsburgh sports teams to succeed.

    Yes some posters have polarized and differing opinions, but inferring or protecting the reason behind those opinions is neurotic. Frankly your inferences say more about you than the posters you are responding to. Berating people with UZR/150 (which should not be used in even yearlong samples), is just antagonizing, the morning thread and Bucco Blog are better places for longer discussion, but lord just be civil and understand other posters might just have different opinions, such is life.l

  263. Arriba Wilver says:

    Kudos Jim. I really don’t get that either.

    Plus, apparently switching him and Marte would put us in the World Series. At the same time Pedro is being picked on.

    Insanity.

  264. The Gunner says:

    Jim

    Let’s hope the Reds hold on.

    So, it sounds like Pedro & CH might be having somewhat of a rift. And this injury to Cole is reason for concern.

    What is your take on all of this?

  265. LonelyLibertarian says:

    Just remember that the next time Pedro disappoints….

    I have said it elsewhere…

    Baseball is a VERY HARD game and what Cutch does offensively is truly exceptional – amazing – but that does not guarantee that he is the best DEFENSIVE center fielder on this team – he might not be.

    The metrics thus far this year are not good – that does not mean they can’t and won’t get better – but I do think there is pretty universal agreement that whatever his range and catching skills might be – he does not have the same arm as Marte or Polanco. So how do you best make use of him and his skills.

    I have suggested – as have others – that perhaps he belongs in Left Field – I frankly think this will never happen – not because it is a bad idea – but because Cutch is entitled to play wherever he wants – he has earned it – and if he – Hurdle – and/or Huntington says that all I can say is – discussion over – let’s move on.

    But he also has an obligation as a team leader to set an example IMHO – it is fair to suggest that includes at least the following.
    1. Hustling and running out every play – if Pete Rose could do it – so can a future HOF…
    2. Working on getting to the ball and getting it out of his glove to the infield quicker – he may not
    ever have a great arm – but he can get it back to the infield faster than he does right now.

  266. Arriba Wilver says:

    Smh

  267. Jim S. says:

    Well, they just did, Gunner. 4-2 final.

    And, unfortunately Cards still lead 3-0 as Miami bats in the 9th.

    Lead off runner on base for Marlins.

  268. Jim S. says:

    Correction: 2 hits to lead off the 9th off Rosenthal.

  269. LonelyLibertarian says:

    then do your self a big favor – you now know my two handles – you can easily skip my posts and move on.

    Snarky crap like “switching him and Marte would put us in the World Series”

    is not as bad perhaps as some things I may have done – but it really falls short of the

    mutual respect thing others have suggested I should comply with.

    I have made every effort to respond to each of your post today with respect and with
    overt acknowledgement that I was offering an OPINION – and that I respected your alternative
    opinion…

    You prefer to be snarky and dismissive.

    I frankly don’t like you – and you clearly don’t like me – let’s do each other a favor and
    stop responding to each other – life is to short.

  270. Jim S. says:

    And then a HBP, followed by Holliday dropping a flyball in LF. So, it’s 3-1 with bases loaded & none out. Cards imploding.

    Matheny already went to the mound and yelled at Rosenthal. I love how he thinks that works. I remember when he did it with Shelby Miller when he couldn’t find the plate vs the Bucs.

  271. tomf says:

    rift ?

  272. Jim S. says:

    Casey McGehee hits a slow roller to 3b with the bases loaded and takes 20 seconds to get to 1st as he is doubled up. Cards hang on for shaky 3-2 win. Bummer!

  273. Jim S. says:

    No, not a rift. Just Matheny with a stern look on his face, saying a few things with Rosenthal not allowed to say a word.

    Then, Rosenthal immediately gave up the long fly that Holliday dropped, followed by walking Stanton w the bases full, and then McGehee hitting into the DP.

  274. Arriba Wilver says:

    “I frankly don’t like you – and you clearly don’t like me.”

    Now there’s something we can agree on.

    You certainly can do what you want in terms of responding.

    I wasn’t even referring to you specifically in terms of the Marte/Cutch switch.

    For myself, if you continue to accuse other posters of racism because they disagree with you and call other posters idiots, I will continue to comment.

    Still haven’t answered if you were the “dog” on Smizik’s blog. Simple yes or no question.

  275. LonelyLibertarian says:

    Andrew,

    Thanks for the long and logical and thoughtful response.

    It may not show up right away – but I thought long and hard
    over the last couple of days about just going away – pretty sure
    I would not be missed

    But I decided to try and be less aggressive and aggravating in
    posting my thoughts comments. That does not mean I will stop
    calling out BS when I think a comment is unfair – and should I make
    that sort of comment I hope you – or someone else will call BS on
    me…

    I also, as is probably more clear than some would like, have a deep
    interest in the numbers – baseball is so rich in metrics and numbers
    that for a data geek like me it is almost heaven. It is also a game where
    you have the ability to measure your reaction to an event against data.

    A brief example and then I am off to bed…

    In yesterdays game there was a key play in the third inning I believe.
    Runners on first and second – Pedro at bat…

    Pedro hits into a double play – he certainly wasn’t trying to – but to your
    point on a game thread people tend to react to the event. I saw one comment
    that went along the following lines – may not have it perfect – but the basic is
    correct I think..

    “Another rally killing double play by Pedro – he is awful – he does this way too often!”

    But the data to know whether that is indeed to case is pretty easy to find – I prefer Fangraphs to the annoyance of many – but that is only one of many places we fortunate enough to have at our disposal.

    So I went to Fangraphs and found the following…

    1. Turns out that for the year – yes Pedro does ground into a good many DPs – not in the top 10 – but he makes the top 25 – tied with Jordy at 8…

    2. But the beauty of Fangraphs – and most of the databases is they allow you to look at splits. When I looked at the last 30 days we see that Pedro grounded into just TWO dps – and that means before last night he had grounded into just one in the last month – same number as Cutch and a lot of other players…

    We all wish Pedro had hit a three run homer last night instead of hitting into the DP – part of me believes that Hurdle was so pissed after that at bat that he pinch hit for Pedro in the 6th out of anger – not out of logic – but that is just my OPINION – I have no proof.

    If he had done so we all know he would have been in the starting lineup tonight and much of what we have posted would never have happened.

    Baseball is hard – Pedro is imperfect – we are all imperfect. I am fine with folks reacting to the moment – but I am not fine with folks ignoring the underlying facts/data.

    I promise to be more respectful – to try harder to teach – inform – and avoid sounding arrogant or superior.

  276. LonelyLibertarian says:

    Yes I did – you may want to consider remedial reading.

    I am only the two handles we have talked about – I have no idea who or what “dog” is

    You may also want to consider seeing a therapist since you seem to have this thing about Identities.

    I never accused anyone of racism because they disagreed with me – I accused them of being unfair because they seemed to hold certain players – who happened to be of color, to a different standard than other players who happen to be white. That was my OPINION – and frankly still is.

    I bet you were one of the fans who thought calling Roberto “Bobby” was fine – what was the big deal – and that Biederman was right for lobbying to keep him from winning the MVP – he finished behind Groat – Hoak and Law in 1960.

    No way to prove it – just a guess – my opinion…

    I also wonder who made you the policeman for DK’s threads – if he did then I am going to shut down completely immediately – so let me know…

  277. Arriba Wilver says:

    smh

  278. Arriba Wilver says:

    No policeman, and DK doesn’t really like it.

    But accusing me of racism towards Clemente really shows who you are, and it ain’t a pretty picture.

    Saying it’s just your opinion isn’t a shield to despicable posts.

  279. pattonbb says:

    A’s just went all in and traded for Samardzija and Hammel. Wow.

  280. Bill_StateCollege says:

    I have to agree re: the criticism Clemente received from fans and select media. He took a real beating at times. Wasn’t always pretty.

  281. dennis g. says:

    What is insanity is taking someone’s argument and twisting it around to negate it. LL did not say that moving Cutch would put the team in the World Series, he simply said that it would improve the team. Then you add the comment “insanity.”

    That is uncalled for. I usually don’t agree with everything LL/FlB says, though on this subject I agree 100%, but he has a right to his opinion and you have a right to yours. If you want to demonstrate that his opinion has no merit, do so with your argument, not with ad hominem attacks. These comments about people and arguments: Ridiculous, insanity and others have no place here. They are unfair and accomplish nothing.

  282. dennis g. says:

    Who do you plan to drop?

  283. LonelyLibertarian says:

    I wrote a long response to this drivel – deleted it – please leave me alone and
    go your way

    I will in turn leave you alone and go mine…

    From here on I intend to keep game thread posts short on the moment as I think Andrew suggests.

  284. not blinded by last yr says:

    A’s just traded for smardja and another pitcher, giving up their top prospect and a couple of throw-ins. Looks like it wasn’t a great bonanza to get him. espn also had a former A’s player on saying management always told them if the team was ever in the hunt, management would go get the help. Wonder what that is like

  285. The Phillies gave the Pirates a bit of a scare the in the 6th, but the Pirates put them away thereafter, and, hopefully, that will continue this 4th of July weekend. Hopefully as well, Gerrit Cole’s shoulder problems wont prove too serious.

  286. LonelyLibertarian says:

    Much thanks dennis g.

    I know I need to shape my behavior to better fit this thread and DK’s blog and will try hard to do so….

    I have at times felt like I was dealing with the class bully – have no idea why AW was obsessed with my handles and identity – but found it a bit creepy frankly..

    Please let me know when I have crossed the line and why – I know I am not always right and not afraid to admit it.

  287. MadTurk says:

    +++++++++++++++++++++

  288. Maz in Iowa says:

    I realize teams hate trading within their own division.Having said that…With the addition of Addison Russell (ranked 14th) from Double-A Midland, the Cubs now have two of the top young shortstop prospects in baseball (along with Baez).They also have Castro in the majors.There are some who see Alen Hanson as more of a 2nd basemen too.Now you’re saying these sentences need to correlate OK here it is……..Is there any chance the Bucs could swing a trade to acquire Baez OR Russell?I know there are some who think Hanson is the answer at SS.However he had 32 errors between A/AA last year in 132 games.He has 23 in 75 games this year).So he’s looking at almost 45 errors this year…plus they’ve sat him down with some problems(they are not saying what those problems are btw).If/when Walker decides to stay or go Hanson might be the 2B and when Pedro goes then Harrison takes over at 3rd.Mercer has a couple more years at SS,BUT maybe a trade is possible for a younger prospect.Just a thought

  289. Maz in Iowa says:

    BTW my thinking is Cole Tucker is at least 4 years away….plus we never know what “could”happen in 4-5 years

  290. dennis g. says:

    Well you are not right about the discrimination that Clemente suffered being in any way comparable to the feelings of current day Pirate fans. In those days there was a great deal of racial prejudice still present in this area as you well know. Unfortunately Clemente saw prejudice even when it was not there so that made things a lot harder. This combined with his fanaticism about his health in a town where people went to work five and six days a week regardless of their health to try and make ends meet caused some dissatisfaction.

    I think we have grown out of that, for the most part. Prejudice still exists, no question about it, but you needn’t go looking for it. I don’t see anything on this blog from anyone that could remotely be perceived as racially motivated criticism. I think if you address the comments made about particular players using the present day circumstances as parameters you will be a lot happier.

    That article you linked to earlier was interesting as there were a great many things in it that I had never read before even though I did read the Maraniss book. Unfortunately the author had all of the dimensions of Forbes Field wrong and therefore it kind of raises a red flag with me as to what else might be wrong.

    As for Biederman, it was no secret that a lot of the Pittsburgh writers wanted the MVP award to go to Groat. There probably was some racism involved in that but it was probably just as much the difference in cultures and admiration for Groat who was undervalued everywhere he ever played.

    I never got the impression that Clemente in any way resented the way Prince called him “Robby.” Maybe I’m just dense but Prince’s fondness and respect for Clemente seemed totally genuine and reciprocal.

    One interesting thing about Clemente is that even though from 1956 on he was the star of the show, the Pirates gave him opportunities to play centerfield but always returned him to right field. I have no idea who the best left fielder of all time is but it might be Andrew McCutchen.

  291. Jim S. says:

    It’s an interesting thought, Maz. The Bucs definitely have a lack of upper level SS talent if Hanson can’t stick at the position.

    As far as the Cubs go, my understanding is Baez may not be able to stick at SS. If so, he probably ends up at 2b. I assume they believe Russell will now be the SS of the future to go along with Bryant, Baez and the rest of the young core they are developing. This trade makes me wonder how long they expect to keep Castro, who is also still very young. Maybe he’ll be moved for pitching when Russell is ready for the big club. I believe if the Bucs are able to pry a SS away from the Cubs, it might be Castro. He signed a Cutch-like deal a year or two ago. I believe he may finally be getting more consistent at SS, and the bat seems to be back on track.

    I still don’t see the Bucs acquiring him, but it would be intriguing if they did. He’s a high end talent. We would need to part with elite pitching and OF prospects, I believe.

  292. Jim S. says:

    I think it’s like acquiring Byrd and Morneau for a stretch run.

  293. tomf says:

    this ^^^

  294. LonelyLibertarian says:

    Thanks again for a very thoughtful response – I may indeed be wrong and racism is gone from the Burgh – hope so…

    I recall an interview with Prince after Clemente was killed in the plane tragedy where he acknowledged the rocky relationship early on – Clemente asked him several times to stop calling him Bobby and use his correct name – Roberto – not Bob – not Robert. A small thing in some minds in the big scheme of things – but important to a proud Latin American and probably should have been respected. As the 60s wore on Prince and Clemente seemed to be able to look past the small stuff and by the ’71 Series Prince thought they were friends – or as close to it as was possible.

    But my larger point remains – I think we all need to take a breath when we see Pedro hit into a double play that kills a rally as he did Thursday – he didn’t do it on purpose – and a look at the facts would show he doesn’t do it way more often than most. Being a fan can be an ugly thing at times – and not just due to race. I was at the Steeler game against the Oilers where SOME fans cheered when Bradshaw was injured – my wife and I and a number of others tried to generate some offsetting cheers but to no avail.

    Yesterday we saw a quick reaction to Marte getting thrown out at the plate – maybe that is natural – but I saw this as Marte doing what the 3rd base coach directed – or did I misread that. Later when asked Hurdle indicated that it was an intentional aggressive play trying to steal a run early.

    I agree with DK – time for the Bucs to stop the “aggressive” strategy – it seems to fail more than it succeeds – but it is TEAM based not a bonehead move by Marte or Martin or Polanco or Pedro or Mercer.

  295. NOT BLINDED BY LAST YEAR says:

    byrd and morneau were acquired after the non-waiver trade deadline of july 31 and both cleared waivers. byrd acquired aug 28 and morneau aug 31. oakland made their deal 8 wks ahead of the deadline to win now. pgh will again probably make a similar move as last yr… the last few days of waiver trade deadline.

 
Other blogs
Sports: Rob Rossi | Steel Mill | Chipped Ice | Bucco Blog | iPreps | Pitt Locker Room | Penn State Sports | Trailing Off
News: This Just In | Trib List | ICycle | Flow Back  


» Top TribLIVE.com Sports
» Top TribLIVE.com News
» Top TribLIVE.com Breaking News