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Final: Cardinals 5, Pirates 4

By Dejan Kovacevic | Trib Total Media

Looking ahead to first pitch …

Game: Pirates (47-42) vs. St. Louis Cardinals (48-42)

Time: 8:15 p.m.

Site: Busch Stadium, St. Louis

TV, Radio: Root Sports, KDKA-FM (93.7)

Here’s the official live box score.

Here’s TribLIVE’s Pirates page and our Bucco Blog. Rob Biertempfel is on the scene for the Trib.

Author: Dejan Kovacevic

Dejan Kovacevic, a lifelong Pittsburgher, is an award-winning sports columnist for Trib Total Media covering the Steelers, Penguins, Pirates, Pitt and, recently, his fourth Olympics in Sochi, Russia. He also appears on WPXI-TV's 'Subway Final Word’ and hosts a weekly show on TribLIVE Radio. For 2011, he was named one of the country's top four columnists by the AP Sports Editors. For 2012, he was named one of the country's top three columnists by the National Headliners. For 2013, he was named the state's top columnist by the Keystone Press Awards and top columnist in Western Pennsylvania by the Golden Quills.

Comments

  1. Maz in Iowa says:

    Yess Lead off

  2. Tom P. says:

    Lineups

    Pirates

    RF: Gregory Polanco
    LF: Starling Marte
    CF: Andrew McCutchen
    2B: Neil Walker
    C: Russell Martin
    1B: Ike Davis
    3B: Pedro Alvarez
    SS: Jordy Mercer
    SP: Vance Worley

    Cardinals

    3B: Matt Carpenter
    CF: Jon Jay
    LF: Matt Holliday
    1B: Matt Adams
    C: Yadier Molina
    SS: Jhonny Peralta
    RF: Oscar Taveras
    2B: Kolten Wong
    SP: Carlos Martinez

  3. Milo Hamilton says:

    Liriano will pitch in Cincinnati this weekend.

  4. Bizrow says:

    • Welcome, Lunatics! If you don’t see your current location below, please add a reply to this post:
    • Dejan’s Lunatic Nation – Sharing and celebrating our community.
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    The Philippines
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    • 7/8/2014 5:21 PM

  5. Bizrow says:

    It is Tuesday, isn’t it ??

  6. JRay3 says:

    Reports coming from Indy last night stated he looked filthy. Be good to get him back if he can regain 2013 form, could be major boost to rotation which now needs to cover the Cole loss for a bit.

  7. JRay3 says:

    Well rumors swirling that Cards are in talks with Red Sox about Jake Peavy. Really going to be interested to see what NH feels is the most important part of the team to address for the second half of the season.

    Pirates catch a break this weekend with Votto back on the DL. But one thing that has to improve immediately is Bucs record versus the NL Central. To date:

    vs Brewers 3-10
    vs Reds 3-7
    vs Cards 5-5
    vs Cubs 9-4

    Unfortunately it is those Cubs the Bucs play the least the remainder of the season, but actually after looking at those number Bucs in pretty good position all things considered.

  8. JRay3 says:

    Didn’t know you could even score a touchdown in “Futbol”, but Germany somehow has.

  9. LonelyLibertarian says:

    What an amazing performance by a team of well paid athletes – amazingly bad…

    I only watched about ten minutes of the first half, but it was clear that the players had quit on
    the team, their team mates and themselves – no pride!

  10. LonelyLibertarian says:

    Won’t really need him until later…

    LL will not be happy if Locke gets dissed…

  11. stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    Back from vacation at the beach and reenergized!!!

    Missed all the games last week, but was able to follow of course with this thing called the internet.

    Just read the article RB wrote on Vance Worley and Jim Benedict. Good read if you’ve missed it.

  12. Andrew says:

    Well the players aren’t paid by the National Federations.

  13. bpn8pitt says:

    It was a good read.

    Wasn’t sure about Vanimal at first…More and more, getting intrigued. Especially since it looks he could be here for a couple years.

  14. bpn8pitt says:

    Just a bad day for Brazil, I think. Heard Tommy Smith say on the radio, that goalie hadn’t given up that many goals in several games for Toronto FC…But it is a little surprising the Brazilian goalie plays in MLS.

  15. Milo Hamilton says:

    I wonder if and when this whole rotation puzzle finally shakes itself out if it doesn’t result in Volquez being traded.

  16. stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    Well, he’s under Pirates control for a few more years. Whether or not he’ll be here are 2 different things.

    Think he’s working out to be a solid #5.

    Cole
    Morton
    Locke
    Cumpton
    Worley

    for next years rotation? Eh

  17. Pete in Dayton says:

    If I was Big Phil Scolari, I think I would bench every player that started that match for Brazil in the third place match that is coming up. I really don’t think the subs could do any worse.
    That was an astonishing defeat.
    Go Netherlands- the only team left that hasn’t already won a World Cup, although they’ve lost 3 finals.

  18. bpn8pitt says:

    Not knocking MLS, just figured their goalie would have played in EPL or other Euro League.

    Must be $$$, better life.

  19. Maz in Iowa says:

    3rd person?I know we’re called loonies but………. :)

  20. Maz in Iowa says:

    Vanimal Day

  21. bpn8pitt says:

    Sounds about right. Taillon’s nothing more than a question mark until 2016 for me.

    I said earlier, its really really sucks him and Cole are both down now. This was supposed to be the time they were throwing smoke together…Heal up fellas.

  22. LonelyLibertarian says:

    wRC+ for NL

    Took a look today at how the NL teams stand in terms of the number of teams each has with a wRC+ over 100 – since this is an index stat 100 should be the league average – better than 100 means the player creates more runs than the league average – below he creates less.

    Two NL teams have 9 players with wRC+ over 100
    - The Dodgers and the Pirates – the Bucs only “regular” below 100 is Jordy – he is at 80 and rising..
    Nobody has 8 – 5 teams have 7…
    - Brewers, Giants, Marlins, Mets, and Rockies.
    Only one team has 6
    - Cards
    Two have 5
    - d’backs and Nats
    Four teams have 4
    - Braves, Cubs, Phillies and Reds
    One team has just 3
    - Padres

    Here are the Buc 9 with their wRC+ for this year/last year

    Cutch 170/155
    Martin 135/101
    Polanco 124/na
    Walker 122/114
    JHay 119/na
    Gaby 109/117
    Davis 107/na
    Pedro 107/111
    Marte 107/121

  23. Pete in Dayton says:

    He is on loan from QPR in England.
    He was transferred to QPR in the beginning of 2 seasons ago when the directors of QPR decided to spend a dump truck load of money to bring in players that would “help them avoid relegation”. It didn’t work. Like at all. They went down, and had a fire sale of assets, and Julio Cesar got stuck riding the pine while another keeper (Robert Green, I think) got the starts. Julio Cesar and QPR arranged a loan deal to MLS because he wanted match fitness and get a chance to play in the World Cup.
    I don’t think you can pin most of those goals on the keeper- the defense played like winners of a “play-a-game-for-Brazil” scratch off ticket contest.

  24. LonelyLibertarian says:

    Forgot to take my meds…

  25. LonelyLibertarian says:

    Kingham should be ready before Taillon – and might be competing for a slot next spring.

  26. Andrew says:

    Remember Morton had his surgery mid June of 2012, I think Taillon will pitch in the majors next year, the question is how much.

  27. bpn8pitt says:

    Thanks, I didn’t know most of that.

    Still a newbie when it comes to futbol, but watched more EPL in the mornings this year.

    Kinda like how soccer has these tiers, regulating teams etc…do well, see them in Champions League, UEFA, CONCAF….be nice to see baseball get there like that someday with Japan, Cuba, South America, Aussies etc…

    Gonna try to pay attention after the World Cup, Pete.

  28. Andrew says:

    You would think the Pirate would have a chance to get to the Cardinals middle relief early with a converted reliever pitching, whose command isn’t always there, but it probably won’t work out like that.

  29. bpn8pitt says:

    NMRs head is going to explode, but I hope they handle the pitching prospects with a little more care.

    I guess what Im saying is, no one has yet to prove themselves a horse under the Pirate tutelage. Just an opinion.

  30. Matt Hoffman says:

    From what I have seen of him in a couple of starts in Indy LL, he may be up this year! I watched a lot of young, up and coming pitchers in Indy the last few years (Cole, Cumpton, Pimental) kingham is by far the best I have seen!

  31. Matt Hoffman says:

    It always seems to me Andrew that we make the least likely guys look like Cy Young! Lol

  32. stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    Or Frankie…

    I wonder if they can maintain status quo with these guys. I’m just not sure. Would love for that to be the case, but I dont have trust in them yet.

    Locke was awesome up to the all star break last year as well, he could be the key to the rotation.

  33. dennis g. says:

    I saw him pitch late last summer against AA Akron and he lost because he could not throw strikes. Hope that was just a blip. Hansen also looked pretty lame in that game, but Ngoepe looked pretty solid defensively.

  34. stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    I agree Kingham is a good possiblity and we might see him this year and I think we’ll see Taillon next season, if all goes well.

    But I’m referring to the MLB guys at this point.

    No doubt, this is a very good problem to have.

  35. Maz in Iowa says:

    I wonder if Charlie Sheen would be available to pitch. :)

  36. bpn8pitt says:

    That was my point above. Seems in the last two and half years, going back to even Karstens and Mcdonald, we see a guy pitch real well for a stretch of 10 starts, couple months…Then the guy breaks down.

    Say what you want about Burnett. Guy is 37 has 7 straight years of 180 IP or more,

    The best ability sometimes is availability.

  37. stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    the Cards definetly have the book on the buccos bats.

    Those guys are good.

  38. stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    I agree.

  39. stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    What do you mean by “a little more care?”

    My understanding is that these guys are already on a strict innings/pitch counts.

  40. tomf says:

    Morton was already an accomplished MLB pitcher before his surgery (3 or 4 seasons; 400 or so innings ?)

    Taillon has not pitched one inning in MLB

  41. Matt Hoffman says:

    Hey Dennis
    Each time I saw him this year (Kingham), he had immalculate control and absolutely pounded the zone. Maybe he got his issues from Altoona worked out.

  42. Chuck H says:

    Which Pirate team will show up tonight? I see Polanco is in the lineup..hope he regains his batting eye and hits like he did when he first came up. Now if Worley can keep the Cards off the scoreboard, we should win. After all, I predicted the Bucs would win 3 out of 4 of this series. GO, BUCS, get some runs!!!

  43. Matt Hoffman says:

    Forget Charlie Sheen, how bout Charlie Hough? Lol

  44. Maz in Iowa says:

    Charlie was”Wild Thing” in Major League.

  45. stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    Here’s the difference with Polanco’s hitting now.

    Pitchers have learned his weaknesses. When he first came up, they probably didn’t have that information and with him being a young guy, he needs to learn how to make the adjustments.

  46. bpn8pitt says:

    I thought the other day, the discussion on the blog was that they were being a little more liberal with the pitch counts. And that the numbers were up over 2013.

    It may have been from the Sunday column or yesterday.

  47. Matt Hoffman says:

    I liked him better in “Men at Work”. With Emilio Estevez.

  48. bpn8pitt says:

    bwsteel
    July 3, 2014 at 3:12 AM

    Bucs starters’ pitches per game is modestly higher than last year.

    2013: 89.8 pitches (fewest in MLB)
    2014: 92.5 (27th in ML)

    Modestly up as he says…Think he had it broken down further by starter but I cant find it.

  49. Arriba Wilver says:

    Agree there’s a difference there.

  50. Maz in Iowa says:

    Kinda like pitchers throwing Pedro a curve?BTW Pedro is hitting around .100 when he’s thrown a curve.However he’s hitting almost .350 when he gets a fastie(my new slang for a fastball) :)

  51. bpn8pitt says:

    Personal favorite from the series….

  52. stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    Exactly. He has to make adjustments or he won’t get it.

    If he can’t hit the pitch, he needs to look for what he can hit.

    I think Pedro’s problem is he can’t recognize the pitch.

  53. Lonely Libertarian says:

    Couple of days ago I noted Pedro is seeing fewer fastballs – fewest on the team.

    He is striking out less and walking more…

    Wonder what Gaby and Ike hit against curve balls?

  54. Maz in Iowa says:

    Then ….not good for Pedro,It’s his 5th season already.Polanco is only in his 5th week

  55. Arriba Wilver says:

    There was some interesting stuff on the Fan about Cole going to the DL. Clint was interviewed (maybe part of pregame). Sounds like despite the stuff yesterday Cole wasn’t too happy about being DL’d. Didn’t hear it all, though.

  56. Maz in Iowa says:

    Don’t know.Guarantee it is crappy!!

  57. tomf says:

    Dodgers – Tigers

    watch the Dodgers outfield play (LF and CF specifically) against the Tigers – and you might appreciate McCutchen defense much more

  58. Maz in Iowa says:

    Did he go “all Machado”?

  59. tomf says:

    Cole should have been shut down before – at least 1 week; possibly 2

    no throwing

    then evaluate and progress from there

    instead they had Cole throwing too much; too much side work (almost immediately)

  60. Arriba Wilver says:

    Doubt it, but not sure exactly what brought it up. I got in the car mid-interview.

  61. Patrick(ri) says:

    Somebody with a better memory than mine should correct me, but I seem to recall he toyed with us last fall as a reliever.

  62. tomf says:

    Polanco pulled a pitch that should have been hit the other way

    but I will take it

  63. Arriba Wilver says:

    It actually overall sounded more positive than what it looked like yesterday in terms of what’s wrong with him. I mean, if it’s clearly really bad, there’s not much controversy about him going to the DL. But I did wonder if they had been letting him have too much say, like not having a rehab start.

  64. JRay3 says:

    Disappointing start after Polanco gets into scoring position and Marte gets him to third but the story of this series continues – no timely hits for the Pirates when a chance is there.

  65. Brandie says:

    What does LL Cool J have to do with this?

    Will LL smash like the Hulk does when the stores run out of purple pants?

  66. Maz in Iowa says:

    So 0-12 w/risp is pretty bad?

  67. Maz in Iowa says:

    Does the Vanimal get yearly rabies shots?

  68. Brandie says:

    Good to see Vance handling his business thus far. Found out his mother’s name is Shirley. If mom and dad are still together then she is known as Mrs. Shirley Worley. So cute!!!!

    Goof evening fellow inmates!

  69. Brandie says:

    You have intrigued me. Young, experienced arms that have tasted some measure of success. I like the concept.

  70. Barb says:

    Good evening Brandecita. It’s been a while.

  71. steelermi says:

    OK- I have to listen to the Cardinals broadcast- these guys are worse than the root guys- this auction thing is terrible

  72. Brandie says:

    Yes it has. A pleasant evening oh Bodacious one.

    Giving a shout out yo my adopted home town in talking about Matt Adams.

  73. tomf says:

    lazy play by Walker

    very lazy

    he did not / should not have to go to the backhand on that ground ball

  74. steelermi says:

    Nice bat slam by Molina

  75. Lad 9 says:

    BRANDIEEEEEEEEE! Shirley you jest…..

  76. JRay3 says:

    And momentum of last night is carrying over for Cards. One team has life the other still looks a bit lifeless.

  77. Milo Hamilton says:

    So, playing against the varsity now.

  78. Florida Steeler says:

    Worley throwing up slow pitch softballs tonight.

  79. Brandie says:

    LLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADDDDDDDDDD

    NNIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!! :)

  80. Brandie says:

    “And don’t call me Shirley. ”

    With apologies to Frank Drebin.

  81. Lonely Libertarian says:

    On a positive note…

    My guy JaCoby Jones hits #14

    2016 SS ;-)

  82. Milo Hamilton says:

    And he lets that little stiff Wong beat him.

  83. Brandie says:

    Sounds painful.

  84. Milo Hamilton says:

    And he ran back a kickoff 96 yards for a touchdown.

  85. Brandie says:

    Sux that Wing picked that time to be competent.

  86. JRay3 says:

    And now the Pirates have left 16 men on base the past two days.

    It bears repeating- the Bucs are 11-22 versus the three teams they are competing with in the Central.

    Those two items must change.

  87. bpn8pitt says:

    Yup. Good post earlier.

    Agree with Milo too. Playing varsity team now. Not the disasters of the Mets, Snakes, Padres and Phils.

  88. Carlos Danger says:

    Frank Dreben = Leslie Nielsen = Enrico Palazzo = awesome. It’s math.

  89. Milo Hamilton says:

    Also bears repeating, the Pirates have played the fewest road games in MLB. They’re currently 18-22 away from PNC Park. A lot of things have to change.

  90. Bizrow says:

    Hidden vigorish

    But there is Pedro

  91. JRay3 says:

    Pedro!

  92. Milo Hamilton says:

    Like that for instance.

  93. Bizrow says:

    Ahem ;-)

  94. Brandie says:

    TWI-DRO!!!!!

  95. JRay3 says:

    Leave it to Alvarez to come up with first big hit this series….he actually owns Cardinals pitching.

  96. Brandie says:

    Hey Pedro…See what you did there? Do more of that!!!

  97. Arriba Wilver says:

    +++

  98. Lonely Libertarian says:

    Can’t wait for him to be traded – he sucks!

  99. Brandie says:

    Gregory “Enrico” Polanco. Freakin’ Awesome!!!!

  100. Brandie says:

    Right On LL Cool J!!!!!

  101. bpn8pitt says:

    I love it. 100 HRs. 103 errors.

    The enigma continues.

  102. Milo Hamilton says:

    Now let’s see if the ticking time bomb gives it right back.

  103. Brandie says:

    The enigma wrapped in a conundrum served in a warm floured tortilla. Mmm. Floured Tortilla.

  104. Radio wave says:

    Good night to grab a win. Crew in trouble with phils, reds look like a split.

  105. Bizrow says:

    That was screwy

  106. The Gunner says:

    Glad to see Pedro finally got a hold of one.

  107. Jim S. says:

    Martinez has a great arm, but I think he just throws more than pitches.

    0-2 pitch to Pedro should be soft & below the strike zone.

    Blows 3 fastballs by Cutch in 1st AB, then throws a lot of soft stuff off the plate.

    Of course, Molina should be in charge of pitch selection.

    His performance doesn’t seem to match his stuff most nights.

  108. Carlos Danger says:

    I like it.

  109. Rock Ain't Dead says:

    Petey a little too fired up after the HR. He has no business diving for that ball.

  110. Carlos Danger says:

    Enrico Polanco is the man!

  111. Lonely Libertarian says:

    Check your stats – but then why let facts screw up a great bash opportunity…

    I so want him traded – he deserves better than the crap he gets from Pirate “fans”…

    I hope I am around to celebrate the day when he hits his 300th HR – it won’t be for the Pirates

  112. Jim S. says:

    So, you’re saying you don’t like the 3b ranging 20′ to his left, leaving his feet to field a slowly hit ball, then spinning & throwing to 1st rather than allow the SS to field the routine grounder?

  113. JRay3 says:

    Polanco with third hit and starts off the Buccos 5th with rocket up middle. See if he can use his wheels again.

  114. bpn8pitt says:

    Yup.

    He has no business at 3b period.

    I’m beginning to wonder if they asked him about 1st and he said no. NH said they have no plans to move him…dont get it. At all.

  115. JRay3 says:

    and the MVP introduces himself to the series officially with a huge blast to right.

    First Bucs lead!

  116. Bizrow says:

    ++++

  117. bpn8pitt says:

    Walk called that in the 1st.

    This kids location sucks.

  118. Jim S. says:

    I had a feeling that was coming after that first at bat where the kid showed him up.

  119. JRay3 says:

    Yep throws hard but catches a lot of the plate and misses spots consistently.

    Bucs sizing him up pretty good now.

  120. chethejet1 says:

    Cutch tagged one finally. Drive in Walker and get a decent lead. Cards just have struggled on offense. So five should be goods enough.

  121. Jim S. says:

    Good to see. He’s been scuffling.

  122. Tom P. says:

    Thanks for doing the math. I was thinking ab9ut those W-L records.

  123. Milo Hamilton says:

    I’m doing some really cool research. It’s going to take some time but I should have it finished before the game ends. I think you’ll like it.

  124. Lonely Libertarian says:

    What was Walker thinking – single or deep fly get the lead to 3 – STUPID INMHO

  125. Carlos Danger says:

    Honest question, but is it really up to Pedro to decide? Can’t they just tell him he is moving to 1st?

  126. Rock Ain't Dead says:

    That inning came to a screeching halt. Bad by Walker whether he was safe or not.

  127. Radio wave says:

    Martinez has given up 4 hr’s, 3 to bucs.

  128. bpn8pitt says:

    Bad call, Neil.

    But u should not be that far off the base with two outs and the best catcher in baseball behind plate. To me, in the conversation for GOAT armwise.

  129. Rock Ain't Dead says:

    Jon Jay is a snake in the grass against us.

  130. Milo Hamilton says:

    Tick, tick, tick.

  131. Rock Ain't Dead says:

    Boom

  132. bpn8pitt says:

    Rickie Weekes was asked by brewers to move to OF and he said no.

  133. tomf says:

    Walker should have been called out for being stupid

    nothing to be gained with that lead

  134. scott says:

    Granted, I only watch the Pirates ha ha, but they have to be one of the sloppiest base running teams in the majors

  135. JRay3 says:

    Well now a 4 inning game. Need more bats.

  136. bpn8pitt says:

    Jim S. and LL

    3 things in sure of?

    1. In two years or less, Pedro is not a Pirate.

    2. Hes at 1b or DH

    3. He LL be make 3 or 4 times what he is now which is 4.25 million.

    You can win with Steve Buechele at 3b, provided you have good pitching. Its proven.

  137. Carlos Danger says:

    Maybe I’m just thinking that baseball players would be (or more likely should be) more like hockey players and accept whatever role is given to them. I’m sure Engelland would have preferred playing d instead of 4th line wing, but he did it cause that’s what they have him. And I could be wrong but I think orpik played forward under Therrien. Again different sports and different attitudes and different customs I’m sure, but I don’t think Pedro should play 3rd base for any major league team ever again.

  138. Rock Ain't Dead says:

    Jon Jay. Ugh.

  139. bpn8pitt says:

    The other night you gave him a hard time for airmailing 1st.

  140. Jim S. says:

    Finally?

  141. cberry88 says:

    Hey LL / Flbucco / Deepthroat from Watergate,

    I was hard on ya a week or so ago for being disrespectful when you disagreed with people on here.

    A few days later (after a few run-ins with some people in this forum) you said you considered leaving but would rather try and change for the better.

    In the days since I have really appreciated the change in your posts. You still will disagree with people but I feel it has been much more respectful. Maybe you’re coming around to us or we coming around to you (or more likely both).

    Just wanna let you know I’ve noticed the difference and appreciate it. Thanks!

    P.S. I usually don’t agree with you; maybe 30% of the time. But hell that means your batting .300 with me. I believe every argument needs a good Devil’s Advocate.

  142. scott says:

    seriously, you have a picture that doesn’t work well past the fifth and we really worked him hard…what, four pitches, lol?

  143. Jim S. says:

    bpn:

    That was all sarcasm on my part. I thought it was pretty obvious. It was a terrible play by Pedro.

  144. Lad 9 says:

    Awesome Milo! Just saw this while I was catching up. LOL

  145. Milo Hamilton says:

    Pedro Alvarez hit his 100th home run tonight in his 1971st big league at bat.

    Willie Stargell hit his 100th homer June 7th, 1967 at Forbes Field against the Mets Jack Fisher.
    In his 2082nd at bat.

  146. Jim S. says:

    Why are you saying that to me, bpn?

  147. Jim S. says:

    Just to clarify my comment above about Pedro awkwardly fielding what was a routine grounder to Jordy … I was being sarcastic. It was an awful play by Pedro. I have no earthly idea why he would attempt that play.

  148. Jim S. says:

    Wow! Thanks for that nugget, Milo.

  149. Milo Hamilton says:

    Third base ump Alan Porter went to Cal U.

  150. bpn8pitt says:

    Oh yea.

    I’ve accepted it and pretty much over it. In two years, El Toro is in the AL making 100 mil, DH.

    Maybe the bat comes around?

    Not happening here.

  151. Jim S. says:

    I wonder how old Wilver was. I’m thinking he was younger.

  152. JRay3 says:

    Thanks for sharing that info, nice little snippet.

  153. Milo Hamilton says:

    He was 27 years, 3 months & 1 day. Pedro is 27 years, 5 months & 2 days.

  154. Jim S. says:

    And, I would be wrong. If my math is correct, Wilver was 27 in 1967 – same age as Pedro is now.

  155. bpn8pitt says:

    I’ll clarify something too.

    Pedro Alvarez may yet become an All Star caliber bat for someone.

    But its not here. There’s nowhere to hide his glove. And the streakiness is going to get very expensive soon.

    Sorry Jim….Polarizing player.

  156. Lonely Libertarian says:

    Thx

  157. Jim S. says:

    You beat me to it. :-)

  158. Milo Hamilton says:

    Funny but in 1966 Stargell hit 33 homers with 102 RBI. In 1967 he dropped off to 20 homers & 73 RBI. Hmm, a little perspective maybe ?

  159. Carlos Danger says:

    Unfortunately I agree with you. I am afraid of the Bautista-Moss-Pearce effect where he blows up with another team, but I am in agreement with you. I have been an ardent Pedro supporter for the past few years mostly because my dad is anti-Pedro and I like to bicker with him. But I am resolved in the fact that he is not a good fit here.

  160. Jim S. says:

    I think his glove fits very nicely at 3b or 1b. Unfortunately, it is his arm that is the problem. Remarkably, he has only 1 error while fielding the ball. If … Big if … they can find a way to get the throws under control, he can win a gold glove.

    I’m sure there is precedent for fixing an erratic, yet strong 3b throwing arm. But, his throwing is a mess. We can all see it. I think he needs to change everything he does after catching the ball.

  161. Jim S. says:

    No problem, bpn. I’m ok w butting heads. No offense taken – or intended on my part.

  162. Maz in Iowa says:

    Time for a little David Bowie,”We could be heroes”

  163. cberry88 says:

    No problem, just wanted you to know I’ve noticed and have appreciated it.

    And the .300 average was probably low. It’s hard to remember everything but it’s probably around or above .500. Which means if you were a politician I’d probably vote for ya…..so….run for political office…?

  164. Patrick(ri) says:

    His error rate on the Forbes field infield might have been insane. And, how many homers would he have if he had to hit em at Forbes? Different era, times two, but Kiner’s record is amazing, given the Forbes Factor.

  165. Steelag70 says:

    Neshek has a career waiting in fast pitch softball when his baseball career ends…

  166. scott says:

    dude’s got to be the slowest picture in nl

  167. Milo Hamilton says:

    Just waiting around to be beaten. Again.

  168. Steelag70 says:

    Pathetic…

  169. Jim S. says:

    Way before my time, Patrick, so I have no first hand knowledge. But, I do know Kiner’s HR numbers, and they were amazing. I assumed he also got pitched around quite a bit on some of those bad teams. I know he drew a lot of walks. His career was, unfortunately, cut short. Back problems, right?

  170. scott says:

    Is it my imagination or does it look like the ball is about to pop out of Polanco’s glove every time he catches a ball?

  171. Lonely Libertarian says:

    So was Joey Bats…

    And to a lesser extend Brian Moss…

    Power is a rare thing – it is really limited right now in Baseball

    It is probably true that I am in the Earl Weaver school and overvalue the long ball…

    But when Pedro is gone and playing in the AL who will replace his 25+ HR and 80+ RBIs?

    I have asked this question several times and never gotten an answer…

  172. JRay3 says:

    Nice turn by Pedro to get the DP.

    Just like last night, which team is going to blink first?

  173. Steelag70 says:

    Nice play Petey….

  174. Lonely Libertarian says:

    Should have had JHay in for his defense – makes that play easily
    Pedro showboating again!

  175. Patrick(ri) says:

    I had his bb card, but he was a Cub. Just know Forbes was cavernous and I did see some games on tv, with announcers lamenting the difficulty of the infield.

  176. Jim S. says:

    Credit where it’s due. Pedro with a nice stab on the short hop & then makes a good throw for the easy DP.

    Now, Rosenthal is in. We have unfinished business with this guy.

  177. scott says:

    i have a prediction

  178. Patrick(ri) says:

    Has that feel.

  179. Milo Hamilton says:

    They brought the left field fence in 30 feet from 1947 thru 1954. Kiner’s Korner (originally Greenberg Gardens). A huge advantage for him.

  180. Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    I’m not throwing a FB at Pedro. Ever

  181. chethejet1 says:

    Forbes Field was a much tougher park to hit it out for sure. Willie numbers did improve in Three Rivers and believe me he would have had some nice numbers at PNC. Hard to believe Mercer was a closer in college, he throws like a he just learned to throw yesterday. This is a game the Bucs need to win.

  182. Milo Hamilton says:

    How about a Jay Hay Partay.

  183. KING says:

    Pirates powered by Home Runs Pedro 14 & Cutch 14. Currently 4-4 game in 9th. I noticed Pirates not as dominant on road as last year. The Walker pick off 3rd base play of game. Walker is a veteran. No excuse for him getting picked off. Especially with Molina’s catching prowess. Jordy soft serves a Single. J-Hay pinch hitting on his birthday. More magic perhaps. KING

  184. Jim S. says:

    I’m in the Earl Weaver school of power, and bunting only when absolutely necessary also.

    We have no one to replace Pedro’s power at 3b in the system. And, that is why they are choosing to try to remedy the throwing rather than move him to 1b.

    Josh Bell or someone else can be moved to 1b. It is harder to move someone to 3b.

  185. Reading says:

    Remember that gargantuan five-game series with the Cards at PNC Park last year when the Pirates took 4 out of 5? Yeah, me neither.

  186. Patrick(ri) says:

    The Cards corner outfielders are slow.

  187. Jim S. says:

    I read something from Bill James once where he estimated Willie lost about 70-75 HR by playing at Forbes vs an avg MLB park. If accurate, that would put him around 550.

  188. Milo Hamilton says:

    I’ll settle for an old fashioned Marte partay.

  189. Milo Hamilton says:

    Nevermind.

  190. scott says:

    what a shock

  191. Steelag70 says:

    Freakin’ ridiculous!

  192. Maz in Iowa says:

    Golden Sombrero for Marte

  193. JRay3 says:

    Marte got a pitch to hit but swings right through it.

    Ok time to pitch and play defense and find a way to extend this game.

  194. scott says:

    need to seriously reconsider our lineup order….that is if we…uh, like, don’t pick an actual hitter

  195. scott says:

    that was “pick up” an actual hitter

  196. Steelag70 says:

    This team just can’t beat teams not named cubs in their division…

  197. Reading says:

    This might not end well.

  198. JRay3 says:

    I bet a lot of Bucs fans miss Bryan Morris now.

    Can’t watch this.

  199. cberry88 says:

    Frieri???

  200. Milo Hamilton says:

    Guy Frieri ?!?!

  201. Maz in Iowa says:

    Frieri is napalm

  202. Steelag70 says:

    I thought the plan was to NOT use Frieri in high leverage situations?

  203. cberry88 says:

    Maybe this will be the one time everyone on this blog is wrong……

  204. Lonely Libertarian says:

    Two nights of really good baseball…

    No ,matter how it turns out I am proud of the Bucs – they have competed both nights…

    Getting to October will not be easy – but the Pirates will be in the hunt IMHO…

  205. Steelag70 says:

    Clutch hitting definitely NOT with the Buccos so far in this series…

  206. Jim S. says:

    Thanks for the info again, Milo. To your point, I just looked up Kiner’s career stats. 210 HR at home vs 159 on road with almost identical at bat #’s. Forbes helped more than hurt him.

    So, the fences were back again for the Maz ’60 HR?

  207. scott says:

    oh no

  208. Steelag70 says:

    Not if they don’t start winning more of these division games….

  209. Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    A little nervous with the new guy on the bump

  210. Jim S. says:

    Ok, we don’t need any gasoline on the Frieri here.

  211. Nate83 says:

    It seems like the plan should be not to use him at all based on what he has shown so far since arriving.

  212. scott says:

    that ball was a foot high

  213. Reading says:

    The Cardinals’ Polanco Ks.

  214. cberry88 says:

    I agree, they sure do battle night after night. Hopefully the hole we dug ourselves in April doesn’t come back to bite us.

  215. Arriba Wilver says:

    I hope he doesn’t throw the Wong pitch.

  216. Jim S. says:

    Tough luck, Oscar. West got Polanco a couple times recently as well, I think. That’s just what he does to kids.

  217. Arriba Wilver says:

    My fault.

  218. Reading says:

    Not 2013.

  219. Jim S. says:

    I don’t want to see that guy any time soon again.

  220. twentytwo22 says:

    Fiery gives it up after two outs.

  221. Milo Hamilton says:

    That is the worst guy in their lineup. Completely ridiculous.

  222. Maz in Iowa says:

    Grilli 2.0

  223. Stlrfanrc (Ryan) says:

    Well crap

  224. cberry88 says:

    Clint, Clint, Clint Clint……what the hell was he thinking?

  225. Reading says:

    What happened to beginning with low-leverage situations?

  226. tomf says:

    thatz just wong

  227. Steelag70 says:

    Wow…..I thought maybe this team had turned the corner…..maybe I was wrong…

  228. JRay3 says:

    Unfreaking real , are you flipping kidding me.

    Just no one outside Watson, Hughes and Melancon that can be trusted in pen.

    Two games that could have been wins and just can’t finish.

    Tough start to road trip. 11-23 vs top three teams in Central.

  229. Nate83 says:

    Completely. I’m glad you accept responsibility.

    They played to well the last two nights not to have at least one win. 12 under against Brewer and Cardinals and 16 over against everyone else.

  230. Maz in Iowa says:

    Hey Frieri……No soup for you!!!

  231. Florida Steeler says:

    Good deal Neal. Frieri needs to be gone when Liriano gets back. What the hell is Hurdle thinking using this guy?? Afraid the Bucs no clutch hitting is catching up with them.

  232. Breakthestreak says:

    Bullpen a complete mess! Got to say this about Hurdle. He gives guys many chances at failure before he gives up on them. And his bull pen continues to fail him

  233. twentytwo22 says:

    This is on the offense. It’s the best part of the team and comes up small again. 2HRs and a bunch of nothing.

  234. JRay3 says:

    And the needs to DFA Frieri now, I’ve seen enough already, bring back Morris.

  235. Jim S. says:

    Well, since it wasn’t a save situation …

    Matheny didn’t treat it that way.

  236. Milo Hamilton says:

    Without a doubt, the bullpen is the #1 culprit so far this season. Someone said you can’t expect them to be near perfect like last year. That’s correct. But they’ve gone from near perfect to near stink.

  237. JRay3 says:

    And what is Clint thinking putting a guy who has given up homer after homer this season into a game where one swing can end it?

    Going to be tough to rebound from these two nights as we just gave two games to the Cards away.

  238. Jim S. says:

    Actually, Worley did not pitch well, and neither did Frieri. Can’t let Wong beat you 2x in one night.

  239. Steelag70 says:

    Put Sadler back in the BP….

  240. Daquido_Bazzini says:

    World Series crybaby Koltan Wong with the walk off HR courtesy of Frieri.
    Some will continue to deny that the Pirates don’t need bullpen help after two straight walk off HR’s by Matheny’s robots.

  241. Reading says:

    Center cut.

  242. Jim S. says:

    +++

  243. chethejet1 says:

    Bummer. Just can’t put teams away when it is presented. Pirates had numerous opportunities to do some damage and they simply couldn’t deliver. Bucs won four of five last year and seemed to gain confidence. Now a four game series on the road and lose the first two with two walk off HR’s. As I said, unless Cole and Francisco return to peak form of last year, this team is going nowhere. Close but no cigar this year.

  244. Daquido_Bazzini says:

    Please….No.

  245. bpn8pitt says:

    We don’t have the bullpen from last year, beyond Tony Watson.

    Its been like this all year guys. Their one consistency is the inconsistent pen.

  246. twentytwo22 says:

    I was going to say this when Philadelphia was in town, but Giles was called up from high A (I think). Simmons for Atlanta from AA. Don’t we have anybody down there who throws gas, throws strikes, and has 2 pitches?

  247. Chuck H says:

    You can forget about the playoffs because we can’t beat the teams in our division, except the Cubbies and sometimes, they can be tough.

  248. theplanisworking says:

    Why was Frieri brought in for that situation?
    Why was Frieri acquired in the first place?
    Why is it Wong for that guy to beat us?

    Stinks.

  249. JRay3 says:

    Can’t team recall Vin Mazzaro?

  250. Jim S. says:

    Unfortunately, he’s not pitching very well of late.

    Was Mazzaro that awful?

  251. bpn8pitt says:

    Totally.

  252. Breakthestreak says:

    Well, we do beat the under 500 teams but can’t beat the NL Central. Can’t be a contender when you can’t beat 3 teams in your division.

  253. Daquido_Bazzini says:

    Apparently his salary is….

  254. JRay3 says:

    Frieri has given up 8 homers now in 9th inning…this whole blog knew not to put him in but the manager misses that?

  255. Florida Steeler says:

    Someone, somewhere must not like Vin. Frieri is pathetic.

  256. theplanisworking says:

    “But they’ve gone from near perfect to stink.”
    Fixed it for you.

    Good Night, Gracie.

  257. Daquido_Bazzini says:

    No question.
    You can’t compete for a division when you consistently lose to everyone in that division.
    It’s sickening.

  258. bpn8pitt says:

    I know right?

    I really feel after Watson and a healthy Cole, they don’t have that stopper. The nasty guy with a wipeout pitch that just shuts teams down.

    I’m glad they throw strikes, but it seems the teams that hit well have no fear, none…of anyone on that staff.

  259. Chuck H says:

    Two Wongs don’t make a white!!!

  260. Lonely Libertarian says:

    Well the good news is that it is all Pedro’s fault and once he is traded/released/sent to AAA the Bucs will cruise to another World Series Championship!

  261. Maz in Iowa says:

    I have several friends who are Cardinal fans.Just got a couple phone calls talking about a sweep by the Cardinals.Didn’t even know how to reply.I got nothing

  262. ChickenOnTheHill says:

    Clint is sometimes just dead wrong in his thinking. Frieri belongs in the minors.

  263. MJH DE Pitt says:

    one of the finest pieces of video ever in my book at least

  264. Jim S. says:

    Ok, so taking 2 of 4 here will be tough now. We had been doing really well in 1 & 2 run games lately … until we got to St Louis.

    Keep the faith everyone! This team battles. They’re not perfect, but I think they’ll turn it back around starting tomorrow. They are a resilient group.

  265. Steelag70 says:

    Cards fans are starting to become the Yankees fans of the NL…

  266. Breakthestreak says:

    World Series Championship? Did you say World Series Championship? You’ve got to be kidding me !

    Yours truly,
    Coach Mora :-)

  267. Jim S. says:

    Just tell them it ain’t happening, Maz! Tomorrow is a new day.

  268. ChickenOnTheHill says:

    How does this happen, Clint has been great for the Pirates as a whole, but then he does something very stupid.

  269. T.S. says:

    I hear Frieri just got selected for the All-Star game. As the Home Run Derby pitcher.

  270. Maz in Iowa says:

    0-7 w/risp.Another 0-fer.Make it go away.

  271. Steelag70 says:

    True Jim but at some point this team MUST start to beat the three teams ahead of them more than just once in a blue moon. No trophies given out for “Feel good” play…

  272. bpn8pitt says:

    They need the “power” though…

  273. tomf says:

    games at St Louis start one hour later

    Pirates just not equipped for this

    lol

  274. bpn8pitt says:

    Neat, but Thunderstuck by AC DC would be better music wise.

  275. Breakthestreak says:

    Maybe Marte will actually get a hit with RISP. He stunk it up tonight but usually comes back better the next day after he sh-ts the bed

  276. twentytwo22 says:

    The Pirates have served up 13 HR in the 9th inning. Their most in any inning. Stupid pitching, stupid pitch selection.

  277. Maz in Iowa says:

    Not at all.The ones I know are pretty smart fans.They are way more knowledgeable than the Cubs/Brewers fans ……at least the ones in this part of Iowa.

  278. Daquido_Bazzini says:

    I’ve got a novel idea….Trade some of these supposed prospects, put a new bullpen together, and try to still make a run at this thing.
    Or would that cost too much of that money that is sitting in he bank (or somewhere) since late last year?

  279. bpn8pitt says:

    43k in the ballpark.on a Tuesday is impressive

  280. Breakthestreak says:

    Just a lot of lousy pitchers in the pen this year

  281. chethejet1 says:

    Lots of things went right for the bucs last year. I think the talent will seek it’s own level and the Pirates even healthy just can’t separate from the pack. To take the next step, Pedro had to emerge into a big bat threat that some suggest he can be. He didn’t and bats sixth and seventh in the lineup. He simply doesn’t look capable of carrying a team that is a difference maker during the season.

  282. bpn8pitt says:

    What about Andy Oliver?

    Not to close, but maybe get a look in the 7th?

  283. Maz in Iowa says:

    Time to sit Marte and put that Harrison guy in tomorrow.BTW Mercer is hitting .550 this month so far / 4 multi hit games and only 6 errors all season.No way should they even think about sitting him.

  284. Maz in Iowa says:

    He has a huge problem with walking hitters

  285. bpn8pitt says:

    Thanks Maz.

    Anything at AAA an option?

  286. Maz in Iowa says:

    Mazzaro.Too bad Duke Welker had Tommy John surgery.

  287. RB says:

    It’s only two losses. No reason to panic. There’s still a lot of losing ahead of us. We just have to hope we do more winning than losing.

  288. Maz in Iowa says:

    Maybe Harrison could close!

  289. Maz in Iowa says:

    Pirates will never spend much on a bullpen.That is their mantra

  290. Baywatch says:

    I like the way you think, RB! Cooler head prevailing!

  291. Baywatch says:

    Thanks, Jim (shoulderpads slapped)! I needed that!

  292. bpn8pitt says:

    Its fair RB, but the bullpen and these in division losses have been an issue all year.

  293. Maz in Iowa says:

    57th sellout this season

  294. Milo Hamilton says:

    The Pirates never spend much on anything. THAT is their mantra.

  295. Maz in Iowa says:

    The Wong ball beats em.This a bunch of cwap(best Elmer Fudd voice)

  296. Steelag70 says:

    +++

  297. RB says:

    You know the Pirates lost two very close games against a good team. Meanwhile, the team they just swept has taken it to the first place team in our division. Baseball is an up and down sport that makes you a believer 1 night and then breaks your heart the next. The Pirates could have easily won either of these two games against the Cardinals, but the baseball gods were not agreeing. The Pirates have a great offense and a good starting rotation. Yeah, the Pirates have some weakness in the bp, but we are always bound to have a weakness somewhere. Should they do better against the division? Sure! There’s a lot of baseball left and we just came off a nice little run of games. See if NH makes some moves to holster the bp. I think the team is doing fine and this panic I’m seeing is really not warranted.

  298. Baywatch says:

    Maz, you ain’t right! LOL! I always figured you should be on stage … first one headed west! :-)

  299. dennis g. says:

    Yes, Maz’s HR went over the fence between the scoreboard and the 406 mark. It was 365 down the line to the left of the scoreboard.

  300. dennis g. says:

    Not your imagination. It is going to happen eventually.

  301. dennis g. says:

    See? Now that is the kind of unnecessary remark that gets people angry at you.

  302. dennis g. says:

    Another pointless remark.

 
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